"You can survive this. Talk to others that have"

Bbygrl1079 posted 2/6/2019 17:56 PM

This seems like a taboo subject. It's akin to peeing in the shower. We all have had to do it, if reconciling, but no one talks about it.
It's a heavy load. He caught feelings for AP and still loves you. Even more furiously now because he stepped out and found the grass on the otherside is just cheap crab grass and not as green as your fields. Not only are you both dealing with hurt and anxiety due to the affair, but the cherry on top is that he is also grieving the whore!
I'm an endless well of caring and grace when it comes to those I love. I have been quite gracious through this process. Now I'm conflicted when it comes to grieving AP. You want them to hurt like you do at first but it never is fulfilling as compassion and love.
I know this is an uncomfortable subject but it needs to be out there. We need it out in the light. There were real feelings between our WS and the AP, even if it was fleeting it was real to them. To be healthy and on track for reconciliation it has to be addressed and processed. My WH and I have approached it together and it took a lot for him to tell me he was sad about her. He shared it in a moment of "So you want honesty well you got it". To hear this was a relief. It humanized him. It let me know he's not a narcissist or sociopath and that she was feeling bad too. It was a relief to know he was cutting out the cancer. His sadness signified that it was really over. Like sobering up after a bender. It didn't take long as she didn't bring anything of real substance to the table. I think he still gets a wave of sadness every now and then just as the BS gets the waves of emotion upon learning of the affair.
When I first realized what was happening, I was struck with indignation. I found it to be unfair. Then I took a step back and assessed the situation for what it was. It was only logical that he would be sad. They had a whole relationship together. They shared things I will never and don't want to know about. Then there was relief. If he's sad about a break up, then they are broken up. I also found it comforting to know that not only was he eating shit over what he had done to me and the boys, he was having to cope with the shitty sadness that comes with a break up and support me in my recovery. He hit the shit sandwich trifecta!
He has performed beautifully. I'll give him that. The contrition is delicious. It's like really good cough medicine that you have to stop yourself from reaching for just because.
I don't want to abuse my status as BS. That's counterproductive in this situation. We are supposed to work together. I have to really check my motives during this time.
Any how, get it out BS. Let it flow. There's no reason this part of the process should be anymore shameful than the other parts. Anger, sadness and all.

layla1234 posted 2/6/2019 18:09 PM

This is scary to me. WH has never admitted he feels sad or missed her. I do remember seeing convos they had together and thinking how happy he seemed in those convos. He just left his job as of Feb 1st so the real no contact has just started. I just don't know how to handle this part of it. I feel like he's told me all he is ever going to tell me.

HellFire posted 2/6/2019 18:14 PM

No. This isnt part of it,even for those attempting reconciliation. It's nice that he was honest with you,but that is something he should be working on in IC. You comforting him while he grieves the woman who helped him betray his wife,his children,his family is abuse on top of the abuse of the affair.

An affair is not a relationship. Its fantasy. They both were pretending to be someone they weren't, for ego kibble.

A man who is mourning the loss of his girlfriend, is not remorseful and not ready to attempt reconciliation.

Have you read the 180 in the healing library?

You're two weeks out. Was the affair over when you found the sex video?

[This message edited by HellFire at 6:20 PM, February 6th (Wednesday)]

oldtruck posted 2/6/2019 18:34 PM

Normal for a WS to grieve the loss of their AP.

Smashedhrt posted 2/6/2019 19:11 PM

I agree. I don’t think supporting the ws get over the ap is appropriate or healthy.

If ws is somupset over the ap then they can’t be that remorseful or contrite about the affair. He cat really believe it was wrong.

If he misses her so badly he should be taking some time alone to consider what he really wants. Dragging you through this is unacceptable.

The1stWife posted 2/6/2019 19:14 PM

This is the part of the Affair that angers me very much.

Watching my CH get depressed and unhappy and take it out on me because he had to end his Affair.

This went on for Months. Right in front of my face.

He was mean and nasty and irritable.

Of course the second she called he went running back. And I thought we were reconciling but he was still cheating.

The good news is in DDay2 I got even. Not mean or nasty but I took back control in this marriage. He never saw it coming and I made demands that were non-negotiable.

If he wanted to R then he had to agree or he was being thrown out.

But the disrespect he showed me by moping around sad and depressed over another woman still irks me at times.

ibonnie posted 2/6/2019 19:40 PM

To be healthy and on track for reconciliation it has to be addressed and processed.

I would be wary. The first time my WS "ended" his affair, he moped and was upset and grumpy. Said I got what I wanted and he needed time to feel sad...

And that lasted a few days maybe, before they were back to calling and texting non-stop (but now only between 8am-5pm) and having lunch together every day. That was all okay though, because they stopped the physical part of the affair, so the constant contact and "I love you," "I miss you," "I wish I was kissing you," should be okay, right?

Long story short, I kicked my WS out the month after he "ended it" once I saw the phone records, he moved in with his AP, and I and went NC for about three months and legally separated after that. Right before we were going to sign off on the separation agreement, we talked and I told him I still loved him but I would not share my husband with another woman. Period. And then I went no contact again.

He dropped her like a hot potato, used his mom to get in touch with me since I had his number blocked and things were MUCH different this time around. No more pining over his "lost love." More like disgust and anger that he had hurt me, hurt our kids, and fallen for all of his AP's ego boosting bullshit.

I don't mean to single you out specifically, but I'm always a little... bemused when a new poster comes onto SI and starts making... pronouncements. For example, a few months back, I remember a new poster who had a recent d-day making a post about how she had all these great realizations about infidelity and now she and her WS were in R and things were going great, even though she had only discovered her husband's affair like 6 weeks ago.

Then shortly thereafter she came back and posted that it was all a lie and her WS had continued to lie and they weren't actually in R because there was a whole lot more to the story.

My point is... keep an open mind. Yes, everyone's experience with infidelity is different, BUT there are often similarities in many poster's experiences, so if you're new to this, and people that have been on this forum for years are warning you that helping your WS through a "break up" (aka ending an affair) is not a good sign... please be wary.

[This message edited by ibonnie at 7:47 PM, February 6th (Wednesday)]

GrayShades posted 2/6/2019 20:08 PM

Nope. I was very quick to outline in excruciating detail how fake the AP was, how manipulative, how intent on destroying me and our son, all while lying about it being NSA and therefore, somehow, OK. And how absolutely gross it was that he was right there with her in all of it. It was disgusting, and he needed to see that right away if he was going to have even a slim chance at reconciling with me. Otherwise, he could get over her by himself, or go to her for all I cared. I actually called her on speaker phone to get some details straight (she was a former 'friend') and I asked him how he would describe what they did while she was on the line. He described it as gross. He has mourned how he hurt me and hurt, deeply, our son. He has mourned how he has been diminished in our teenage son's eyes, and in the view of his father. But if he ever showed grief about losing her, I would have been out the door. There was no mourning for her as far as I could tell, just desperation immediately to try to fix things and now, much later, grief at how much I still hurt by his betrayal. I appreciate your generosity and grace, but for me, nope nope nope.

Happenedtome2 posted 2/6/2019 20:21 PM

I have to disagree. After an A, we owe WS NOTHING. Should we as BS's be mindful of issues WITHIN our marriage? Absolutely. We do not and should not have to give one crap about WS's "feelings" toward the AP or the fact that they "miss" their AP.

That's a crying shame but WS's dug that hole for themselves. Let them deal with it in individual counseling.

greenirisheyes posted 2/6/2019 20:58 PM

Nope, nope and nope! No way in hell was I willing to accept one ounce of his "pain" over his choice to dump his whore, and the loss of his bullshit fantasy life.

He started and conducted the affair without my knowledge or assistance and he could "mourn" her loss without any consideration from me either.

Early on I told him that if he EVER defended her to me or criticized me for decimating her, that was a deal breaker to any possible reconciliation. He could damn well suffer in silence in that regard. I had enough shit to hold together without worrying about how his shitty choices were affecting him

Somehow, he survived it and we have been successfully reconciled since 2002.

I'm a believer that a wayward spouse should have to work hard to earn their way back into the marriage, the family and the house.

k8la posted 2/6/2019 21:03 PM

He who cares the least about the relationship he has with YOU has the most power.

If you flip that to you walking away because he's investing emotional currency in her AFTER discovery, walk away and take back your humanity and power. If you're letting him boo-hoo on your shoulder, that doesn't show how much you care; it shows how little you hurt because of what he's done.

My husband had zero chance of winning me back by boo-hooing about the OW's situation. I stated, "She. Is. Not. Your. Problem. but you can be hers in a heart-beat if you want out of here. I'm not keeping you here. I'm not going to tolerate you mourning the loss of a woman who had no business being in your life."

Marie2792 posted 2/6/2019 21:10 PM

My husband didn’t really grieve for his AP, but he did try to reach out to her twice after the no contact message was sent. The first one I caught him and he admitted. The second time I caught him but he didn’t confess. He slipped about it last summer and I was vindicated. She didn’t respond to either attempt. When I asked him about it he said that he was upset that he “had something a lot of men wanted and he lost it.” That fried my nerves so bad. I said to him “a lot of men want a loyal, loving and devoted wife too, but you don’t seem to be so upset about potentially losing yours.” That was the end of that. He wasn’t grieving her but the fact that he had been bedding s much younger woman whose Facebook followers drooled all day over.

There is a thread in Wayward titled “Maia’s Guide to Withdrawal” about this very subject. You may find some insightful info there.

You are well within your rights to be upset about this. It’s like a kick in the stomach when you’re already down.

ChamomileTea posted 2/6/2019 22:30 PM

I never tolerated a single second of "mourning for the AP". I honestly don't know what that means to any hope of R. It seems to me though that piling on more indignity and damage to what has already been suffered will demand a steep price... maybe more than R can withstand. Sometimes, we have to be willing to end the marriage in order to save it. It also occurs to me that the "bubble" doesn't pop until we stick a pin in it.

Want2BHappyAgain posted 2/6/2019 22:51 PM

I allowed my H to grieve...and talk about his feelings...and I took it all in with very little emotion. Then I "helped" him through it by asking him questions...using his own words...to guide him out of the bullshit he was in.

We ALL know that A's are FAKE...and everything THEY experience is a LIE...so I just showed him where the lies were . For instance...he told me how the adultery co-conspirator CARED so much for him...and she told him that she would take care of him . So I asked him if that was what she did for him while he was there...take care of him...and he assured me that she did. I then looked puzzled and asked what was she doing with her THREE children while she was "taking care" of HIM? You guessed it...when they were at her house...most of the time her kids were at their Dad's . When they were at his hotel...NO kids there either . So I asked another question...what would happen when the kids WERE at her house when he was there too? Well...she had her two older children take care of their special needs younger brother. So I asked...HOW could she take care of him when one of her kids was sick...or if the older kids went to a friends house...or when SHE was sick? Was she paying bills while he was around...doing laundry...or the dishes? Surprisingly...she wasn't !!! Then the light bulb went off in his head . Of course she could take care of him...IF he only was at her house once or twice a week !!!

One other thing my H told me was that she was JUST LIKE ME...because she was sooooooo NICE. I let him know very matter-of-factly that NICE people don't have affairs. It was like I threw cold water on him...because he couldn't argue with THAT!!!

This was all happening on DDay. My H had sent the adultery co-conspirator a NC message...and in it he told her that what THEY had was REAL...but in order for us to work on our M...he would never talk to her again. He then wrote something that puzzled me...he told her that I made him happy. When I asked why he wrote that...he told me that the adultery co-conspirator said that ALL she wanted was for him to be HAPPY...even if it wasn't with HER. YEAH RIGHT!!!! I didn't say anything...I just let him send the NC message.

The next morning...my H received a reply. The adultery co-conspirator was NOT happy that he didn't want to be with HER . OH MAN...was she PISSED !!! But what happened next surprised ME. My H was PISSED too...because this NICE woman who only wanted him to be HAPPY...LIED to him !!! He really BELIEVED all the lies she told him..just like SHE believed his lies . My H got over the "break up" that fast. He has NEVER grieved her since then.

I know a lot of people on here say that the WS shouldn't be allowed to grieve the loss of their adultery co-conspirator in front of them. But I wanted to know EVERYTHING...even the feelings of love my H had for the adultery co-conspirator. Knowledge is POWER...and I had that knowledge of what he felt as well as the knowledge that it was all a LIE. It HURT when my H told me he felt love for the adultery co-conspirator...but it was his truth at that time. It feels GOOD to KNOW that my H feels NOTHING for her now...because this is his truth NOW .

ibonnie posted 2/6/2019 22:59 PM

It was only logical that he would be sad. They had a whole relationship together. They shared things I will never and don't want to know about.

Did they really have a whole relationship together though? Did he take her out on dates, introduce her to his friends, have her meet his mom & dad? Did they make the decision to move in together, and realize that maybe she forgets to put the lid on the toothpaste and he he forgets to put the toilet seat down? Was it his job to take out the trash cans and her to cook dinner for them every night? Did they deal with the bad parts together? Did he help her change the sheets when she unexpectedly got her period one night and woke up in a blood stain? Did she help him clean the bathroom floor when he had a stomach bug and missed the toilet trying to puke? Did they make plans and compromise whose parents they were going to spend Thanskgiving with? Did they work together and change a tire on the side of the highway when they got a flat? Do you have kids? Was she there helping the kids with their science project while he got dinner ready?

Or did they just sext each other in stolen moments, have rushed, illicit sex in hotel rooms and car parking lots, and send each other lots of BS messages about how they were sOoOo *in love*?

JpnHeartBreak posted 2/6/2019 22:59 PM

We all have had to do it, if reconciling, but no one talks about it.

Um.... not just no, but hell no. Allowing the WS to continue to abuse the BS by expecting the BS to help them “mourn” the loss of the AP IS NOT healthy. If you feel the need to allow your WS to mourn for the AP in your face, that’s your choice. But to suggest that other BSs should do the same is extremely reckless. It’s perfectly okay for a BS to have standards and refuse to tolerate a WS that’s mourning over the person that just helped to blow up their world.

Bbygrl1079 posted 2/7/2019 00:17 AM

Perhaps help was the wrong term. I knew I'd rub some folks the wrong way. He came to me and brought up the fact that to move forward he needed closure. He tried to call, with my knowledge and while I was in the house, but she was too scared to even pick up the phone because I had already scared the pants off her.
She's pretty much out his system and I'm pretty confident he sees that he was after an ego boost more than companionship. He did admit he cared for her. That stung like a mf. I can see him get defensive when I refer to her as whiteface in counseling. I hated giving him space to grieve. It feels so weird. The fuck he got to grieve over? Is what goes through your mind.
More than anything I wanted to see if there were others out there that have had to watch this and feel all the conflicting feelings that come with the territory. I can't believe how well I'm holding up. Maybe I'm still in crisis mode and it'll hit me in a few months. I don't know. It's a patchwork of crap that keeps coming up.

OneInTheSame posted 2/7/2019 01:59 AM

It is still way too early for you to even fully realize what you have been hit with! But I see you doing something many of us BSs did in these early months: search for their “why” and make excuses for them. I wanted anything to be more true than the fact that my wife chose infidelity because she wanted to. I wanted to blame the AP (who happened to be her ex-girlfriend who told my wife that “ she always felt they should be in each other’s lives.”) I wanted to blame the stress excuse my wife used, but I suffered those same stresses and more, and I had no inclination to seek solace outside my marriage. I even explored whether it was some kind of mid-life or change-of-circumstances need. And, like you, I wanted to grant her that the stress and circumstances were difficult to manage. But the fact is , they were no reason to lie and cheat!

And no WS needs time and space to achieve closure. How selfish!

Please spend some time in the Healing Library to the left in the yellow box. Do not sweep this under the rug, or give your WS the power to call the shots, or you may find yourself dealing with infidelity as an ongoing problem.

Holly-Isis posted 2/7/2019 05:29 AM

I'll join the chorus of nope with a hell no.

Not mourning doesn't mean they are a narcissist or a sociopath. In fact, it might mean the opposite. They have enough compassion for their BS that the AP is suddenly the equivalent of a drunken mistake: done "under the influence": and desired to be quickly forgotten.

He came to me and brought up the fact that to move forward he needed closure.

Closure is a myth. At least, in the sense that you need the other person to get it. It's like forgiveness. It only takes one. MrH was in Iraq when he came to his senses and it turned out that the car that was in "long term storage" was actually being lent to xOW2 because her BH got theirs in the D proceedings. I told him to arrange to get it back. He said he had to meet her. I said fine, I'd be there. He said no.

My response was one of the few things I am proud of in the whole process, where I mainly danced the Pick Me Dance and accepted less than I deserved.

I told him he could choose what he wanted. But I was done with being disrespected. If he chose to respect her and how things ended with her over me, he didn't need to come home.

The car was dropped off at their work parking lot and the key hidden under the mat.

A remorseful WS will be so focused on fixing their M and helping their BS that they won't be whining about the AP. They may struggle with the loss of the ego kibbles, but they will see the AP for the destructive force in their lives that they are. Until a WS focuses on recovery from the A rather than the AP, I don't believe true reconciliation can occur.

edited for grammar

[This message edited by Holly-Isis at 5:34 AM, February 7th (Thursday)]

annb posted 2/7/2019 06:30 AM

Your WH does NOT need closure. The A ended. Period.

Nope, he should be concentrating on you and the marriage and getting his head out of his own ass.

Hell no.

Calling the OW after the A ended? For what purpose? To feel better about himself? To tell her he's sorry? Why? To get an ego boost? Heck no.

[This message edited by annb at 6:34 AM, February 7th (Thursday)]