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Punishment

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HellFire posted 11/16/2018 13:09 PM

My comment about you trying, comes from the general sense I get from all of your posts. You talk about all the things you do with the kids,and for your wife.

My comment about how WS want fair, honesty,respect, kindness,etc, were more directed towards those who are making derogatory remarks about your wife. That she wants to humiliate, embarrass, and jab at you.


I don't think what you said to your kid was wrong. There's nothing wrong with letting your kids know you're not perfect. That you've made mistakes, learn from them,and do better.

[This message edited by HellFire at 1:10 PM, November 16th (Friday)]

ibonnie posted 11/16/2018 13:11 PM

My post was about how I deal with my children when I feel like a hypocrite.

So quit feeling like a hypocrite. If you wouldn't want them to do it, don't do it. You want your kids to be honest? Then be honest. You want your kids to respect their partner/other people? Then show respect to your BS. Be the person you would want your children to look up to and want to emulate.

prissy4lyfe posted 11/16/2018 13:52 PM

It boggles my mind that posters read your post and always come to the conclusion that you are a victim of your wife.

No wonder your wife doesn't post to get help and support as it seems many people have already bought the narrative that you have "suffered" enough. Never mind you post the same things over and over with little movement or growth on your end (which you acknowledge).

This is another reason BS's don't reach out for help..because our spouses have gotten so good at projecting an image (in your case that of a down trodden WS) that other immediately seek to defend them or cast them as the victim.

I guess if she

she broke her streak of not speaking to you so should could get in few more jabs"

You should break your streak of not doing the work to heal our marriage.

Zugzwang posted 11/16/2018 14:09 PM

You just answered your own question. Consequence. What was it? Just because you get to stay married and have your family doesn't mean you don't have consequences. The fact that you feel you didn't makes me wonder if you actually feel for yourself. I was so thoroughly disgusted with myself. I am not talking about shame or guilt. I just couldn't sit in the same room let alone skin as myself. IDK how to explain it well. How can you not feel you made personal consequences to yourself? Can you look at yourself in the mirror with head held high? Can you feel proud?

Are you mixing punishment with consequences? This thing you are talking about goes back to what I told you a long time ago. Some shit just happens and there doesn't seem to be any justice for the betrayed. Yet there is for us internally. If you have any self introspection or reflection then you should be seeing that.

External punishment/consequence. That type of stuff you can't fix for her. She has to come to terms with that. She has to find her grace and mercy and realize that in this she may never have her pound of flesh for everything you have done to her and her family. Or maybe she will not and that is just as okay. We aren't entitled to grace, mercy, or forgiveness. We are entitled to move on. What would a fitting consequence/punishment be? Her leaving? That is her choice and in her control. You dying? Maybe having your kids resent and despise you for the rest of their lives? Maybe you leaving and taking the blame on yourself for breaking the family apart. That really seems to be the case with you sometimes. Implied I mean. I really don't see what you are getting at here. Is this about you feeling for you or about her feeling about you and the whole shit storm you dumped on her? Because again. That is hers to navigate. How she comes to term with how she solves this chapter for herself. It certainly isn't fair. But, it certainly isn't healthy to remain so long in limbo without what seems any progress or even moving forward at all. Regardless of how extensive the cheating was. The goal is to at least plod ahead. Steps back happen sometimes, but in your case it really seems like you are constantly going backwards instead of forward.

The only external one I can suggest is outing yourself publically. That I did with my wife's permission. I chose to ruin everything about myself I built on her pain and the deceit I brought forth onto her along with my APs.

I don't think your wife wants to do anything to you. I do think your wife knows you aren't doing anything to yourself except sitting in your own pity party. I do think your wife knows that you really just aren't letting yourself feel this. It just goes beyond shame or guilt and I just don't know how to explain that. You will just know when you get there if you really let yourself go beyond the shame or guilt. I do think she is having trouble with the justice of it all. I think only a betrayed that has healed can help her with that.

We do have a consequence and if you don't see it, then your are lacking some empathy and remorse. This becomes internal.

[This message edited by Zugzwang at 2:12 PM, November 16th (Friday)]

islesguy posted 11/16/2018 23:07 PM

ibonniie,

Is this a hypothetical question? Or is your daughter aware of your infidelity and might legitimately ask you this?
Yes, my children are aware but that wasn't what this was about. It was just simply scolding her for not doing what she said she would do when I have done the same.

be the change you want to see in the world

islesguy posted 11/16/2018 23:11 PM

HellFire

You talk about all the things you do with the kids,and for your wife.
I do a lot for my kids, stuff that parents do, but I am not sure where I ever said I do all of the things for my wife. I am always struggling to try to figure out what I should be doing for her.


My comment about how WS want fair, honesty,respect, kindness,etc, were more directed towards those who are making derogatory remarks about your wife. That she wants to humiliate, embarrass, and jab at you.

OK, I understand. Yes, no one should be making derogatory statements about her. She has been through hell and I am sure I would want her to have difficult embarrassing situations if roles were reversed.

islesguy posted 11/16/2018 23:13 PM

prissy4lyfe,

It boggles my mind that posters read your post and always come to the conclusion that you are a victim of your wife.
It does to me also because I never ever want to come across that was because it simply isn't true. It is the complete opposite and it frustrates me when people take any jabs at her.

prissy, I agree with this, You should break your streak of not doing the work to heal our marriage., I just can't seem to figure out how to ever do the right things. Lately, no matter what I say to her about anything it seems to piss her off, she has a hairline trigger because of what she has been through with me.

[This message edited by islesguy at 11:15 PM, November 16th (Friday)]

pinkpggy posted 11/17/2018 20:21 PM

Maybe I misunderstood. It seemed like she was saying these things in front of your kids in order to embarrass you.

Anyway, what does she see fit as a suitable punishment? Not letting you spend time with your own kids punishes the kids too.

islesguy posted 11/18/2018 07:31 AM

pinkpggy,

It seemed like she was saying these things in front of your kids in order to embarrass you.

She does say things in front of the kids all the time, I don't believe if it is to purposely embarrass me. I assumed it was just because she is frustrated with me but the end result is that I am very embarrassed and can't say anything about it without just making her more angry.

Anyway, what does she see fit as a suitable punishment? Not letting you spend time with your own kids punishes the kids too
I don't believe she would call this a punishment, but it is a consequence that she has stated that I should have had on me.

[This message edited by islesguy at 7:32 AM, November 18th (Sunday)]

pinkpggy posted 11/18/2018 07:46 AM

How was this "Saturday night" for her? Any better?

Thanksgiving2016 posted 11/18/2018 10:19 AM

I think you have replaced the ego kibbles from your AP with kibbles from here. I think deep down you enjoy that so many here feel sorry for you and that your wife is too harsh.

prissy4lyfe posted 11/18/2018 10:32 AM

I agree Thanksgiving.
And its disheartening to see other members rush to indite his wife instead of holding him accountable.

islesguy posted 11/19/2018 08:12 AM

pinkpggy, Thanksgiving2016

I don't understand why people in this thread made any comments about my wife or wanted to give me sympathy. I don't know what I said for either of these things to occur and both make me angry each time I see those types of responses and I made sure to state this each time. Where is the misunderstanding, I just don't get it. I posted this to seek advice on a situation with my daughter that I felt guilty about and it turned into something else and I don't understand why as that was not what I wanted or ever asked for. My wife doesn't deserve and criticism and I have been very clear about this, she is the victim. I don't deserve any sympathy and I have been very clear about this because I brought it all on myself. Where is the confusion?

pinkpggy posted 11/19/2018 11:06 AM

Isles-

I understand where you are coming from, as a wayward its hard to preach honesty, trust, ect to your kids since we have not been those things. But no one is perfect. To tell your kids not to lie, and saying no one can say that unless they have never lied before would be ridiculous, everyone has told a like in their lives.

ff4152 posted 11/19/2018 12:15 PM

Isles

Just out of curiosity (and I am most definitely not casting stones at your wife) I have to ask. what does she think a sufficient punishment for your cheating would be? What do the both of you hope comes from you posting on SI?

Iím asking because you sometimes sound like your flailing about in your posts. Like you want to do the right thing but donít quite know what that is. This thread is a great example. Speaking strictly on the issue with your child, there isnít one person on this planet that hasnít shirked their duties from time to time. Reprimanding your child for not doing theirs doesnít automatically make you a hypocrite (unless you consistently donít do what youíre supposed to). Youíre just trying to teach your child to be responsible.

So itís left me wondering what the end game is for the both of you. Is there any salvaging of this relationship? Does your wife still want a relationship with you or you her? From the tone in a lot of your posts, it really sounds like both of you are in a state worse than limbo.

[This message edited by ff4152 at 3:49 PM, November 19th (Monday)]

EvolvingSoul posted 11/19/2018 15:32 PM

I don't understand why people in this thread made any comments about my wife or wanted to give me sympathy. I don't know what I said for either of these things to occur and both make me angry each time I see those types of responses and I made sure to state this each time. Where is the misunderstanding, I just don't get it.
Your posts are littered with statements about your wife and the way she treats you and how no matter what you try it is not good enough.

Yesterday my BS asked me to come up with a punishment for my daughter who had not done something she was supposed to do and her comment was exactly what I always feel. I am a hypocrite for telling my daughter she is in trouble for the crime as I have done again and again, not doing what I say I am going to. She also asked what has my punishment been and I couldn't answer her.
She does say things in front of the kids all the time
I am very embarrassed and can't say anything about it without just making her more angry.
The statements above imply that all of this calling your a hypocrite and asking what your punishment has been happened in front of your daughter. You clarified that it wasn't but then took the trouble to say that she says stuff in front of your kids all the time.
I posted this to seek advice on a situation with my daughter that I felt guilty about
The above being the case, why was it even necessary to mention your BS in your original post?

islesguy posted 11/19/2018 15:49 PM

ff4152,

what does she think a sufficient punishment for your cheating would be?

My opinion is that she feels that the only sufficient consequence would be divorce.

Like you want to do the right thing but donít quite know what that is.

I am not making excuses for my many years of laziness and taking my BS for granted but a large part of my complacency is not knowing what to do.

Reprimanding your child for not doing theirs doesnít automatically make you a hypocrite
Maybe not but it was the way I was feeling.

So itís left me wondering what the end game is for the both of you. Is there any salvaging of this relationship? Does your wife still want a relationship with you or you her? From the tone in a lot of your posts, it really sounds like both of you are in a state worst than limbo.
I don't know. Her words say no that she is done but I still hope that I will be able to figure it all out and she will change her mind.

islesguy posted 11/19/2018 15:55 PM

EvolvingSoul,

Your posts are littered with statements about your wife and the way she treats you and how no matter what you try it is not good enough.
I have posted some things because I was disappointed but I was never blaming my wife for it, I was upset because I had failed to understand.

My original post wasn't worded very well, I was the one calling myself the hypocrite, she was just pointing out that I haven't had any consequences of my actions but now my daughter was going to.

She does speak her mind and if the kids are there they hear it. Maybe she actually is holding back and there would be a lot more coming out if they weren't there I am not sure. Someone asked me the question and I answered it and specifically said that I didn't believe it was to embarrass me.

The above being the case, why was it even necessary to mention your BS in your original post?
This is a good point, I could have worded it differently and left her out and now I wish I did because it was not my intention to turn this into what it became. I was just recapping what happened when I was writing it.

Zugzwang posted 11/20/2018 08:38 AM

I don't understand why people in this thread made any comments about my wife or wanted to give me sympathy. I don't know what I said for either of these things to occur and both make me angry each time I see those types of responses and I made sure to state this each time. Where is the misunderstanding, I just don't get it.


my BS asked me to come up with a punishment for my daughter who had not done something she was supposed to do and her comment was exactly what I always feel.
Instead of saying "I reprimanded my daughter, you said My BS asked me to and her comment." It comes across as you having to do something you didn't want to do and that you were attacked by your wife with a comment about being a hypocrite.

She also asked what has my punishment been and I couldn't answer her.
You specifically pointed out punishment and not consequences. Making it seem like your wife is vengeful and for those that don't know you and your story- they might see that and compare that to how long you have been here and see that "you say you feel this" compare it to your wife asking about punishment and see her in a negative way. You made your wife into a bad guy.

My BS didn't call me a hypocrite, I called myself a hypocrite. Her comment was that I haven't had any punishment for my actions
Then you go on to clear it up that she didn't call you a hypocrite, just that you weren't punished. Putting her in a bad light as the parent/police. Punishment for adults just sounds vengeful and spiteful if taken out of context of something happening in some court of law to me. So, again you paint her in a bad light.

You didn't use the word "consequences for my actions or choices" in the opening post. You specifically said punishment and what your wife asked you to do and then commented on punishment. Not to mention the things you state in your other post.

I agree with Hellfire to about the trying thing. All your posts come with a general sense that you try and fail, try and fail. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. So much so that even your wife had to make a post in general to clear things up because you had made it seem like that. When, it really is that you might not really be trying.

but I am not sure where I ever said I do all of the things for my wife. I am always struggling to try to figure out what I should be doing for her.
Follow through. Stop talking and just do it. Is it really that you are trying and failing? Or is it that you really aren't trying? It is like someone trying to lose weight and asking why they aren't when they are sitting there drinking milkshakes. Well, duh. Of course you aren't going to while drinking that milkshake. Get off the chair and take a walk. Stop drinking the milkshake. After so long, with so much advice...should you really be struggling anymore? I think you know what to do. You just aren't compelled enough to do it. You just aren't disgusted with yourself. You are disgusted that other people are disgusted with you. Yet, you choose to sit in the shame and guilt and hope that in time apathy will settle in.

You don't want to be a hypocrite. Then stop doing the things that make you a hypocrite.

I just can't seem to figure out how to ever do the right things. Lately, no matter what I say to her about anything it seems to piss her off, she has a hairline trigger because of what she has been through with me.
Again. You are making her into a bad guy. You can't figure. You shouldn't be trying to figure. You are looking to control the outcome. To placate. To not truly change, but white knuckle it. Instead of saying this statement. You should have said something like. I still am struggling how to be a respectful and compassionate person. You don't. You make it seem like it is her fault for not responding to you doing the right things. "Lately, no matter what I say to her-pissed off". You twist it like you are doing so much, yet she refuses to give grace, mercy, and leadway. Then you mention a hairline trigger. Why mention it at all. All the BS here have triggers. That is a given. By mentioning it, you place the blame on her and her reactions to you.

She does say things in front of the kids all the time, I don't believe if it is to purposely embarrass me. I assumed it was just because she is frustrated with me but the end result is that I am very embarrassed and can't say anything about it without just making her more angry.I don't believe she would call this a punishment, but it is a consequence that she has stated that I should have had on me.
Hello. You are making her into a bad guy here too. She doesn't make you feel embarrassed. Your lack of fixing this does. Though if someone doesn't know your story or hers, you make it sound like she is trying to embarrass you and punish you. Her not wanting you to spend time with your kids is a consequence. Makes her out to be a bad guy again. That is harsh. If it is true, then why? Because you are a bad role model? You are twisting it again. Those are negative things about her. I.E. she puts you down, embarrasses you in front of the kids, thinks you shouldn't be with them---after all these years. Think about it.

Stop explaining what you were doing and just listen. Stop defending what your intentions were. See it. See why.

pinkpggy posted 11/20/2018 11:01 AM

Thanks Evolving Soul...I interpreted it how you bolded the statements. That is why I commented the way I did.

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