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Punishment

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islesguy posted 11/15/2018 14:26 PM

Yesterday my BS asked me to come up with a punishment for my daughter who had not done something she was supposed to do and her comment was exactly what I always feel. I am a hypocrite for telling my daughter she is in trouble for the crime as I have done again and again, not doing what I say I am going to. She also asked what has my punishment been and I couldn't answer her. When I was talking to my daughter about it I couldn't help but tell her that I was a hypocrite for telling her she was in trouble for something that I have done many times.

HTD2015 posted 11/15/2018 14:28 PM

Why are you involving your daughter in your marital issues/conversations?

Your burdens regarding the A are not your child's to carry.

And you sound like a bit of a martyr.

thatbpguy posted 11/15/2018 14:36 PM

I agree with HTD2015. You may have a lot of heavy lifting to do, but you're not a door mat. And to use a child like this is unforgivable.

jaynelovesvera posted 11/15/2018 16:05 PM

I am fairly certain that when I need to deal with the kiddos when they are lying, my WW squirms internally. Not my intention. I just can imagine what it must be like to listen to these conversations.

Lies are a big issue for me, long before any infidelity. My mom always explained that lying always meant a harsher punishment. If I told her the truth I may well be punished, but if I lie, it will be way worse.

I have used this with the older kids - but the younger ones need a little more grace.

And that's the way I see it. There's the Law. And there's Grace.

The Law are the rules of the house. In theory, violate the law and there is punishment.

But I can and do choose to show the kids grace - more patience too especially with the little ones.

While I would avoid bringing any marital issues into the conversation, it can be a good thing to admit to our kids that we are not perfect and that we have sinned too (or whatever term is appropriate to your situation).

Then I use that as a segue into discussion of possible punishment, but also that there are times for grace. Both forward the relationship with my kids. There must be rules/boundaries/consequences. But there must also coexist in some fashion - mercy and grace.

I am a BH. But I have sinned my own sins. Sometimes I have grown best by being held full accountable. Other times I have grown best when receiving precious grace and mercy.

We have an opportunity with our kids to model for them, and mold in them good things like boundaries and consequences and also forgiveness and mercy as strengths and not weaknesses.

Just a few thoughts from the frozen north this morning.

firenze posted 11/15/2018 17:20 PM

I honestly have a problem with this. First, it involves your child in your marital issues, which isn't right especially when they're still young. Second, it undermines your authority and credibility as a father, which you shouldn't be doing.

I'm also somewhat irked at your BW for calling you a hypocrite over this. Every adult has lied. Every adult has shirked off responsibility. Every adult has said and done things we shouldn't have. None of that stops or should stop us from teaching our children not to do these things and disciplining them when they transgress is not hypocrisy. It's good parenting. We want them to avoid making the same mistakes we did.

I have a young daughter with my WXW. One day she will know that my WXW had an affair, left me for the OM, and married him. However, that is probably not going to happen for about another decade. In the meantime, I do not speak ill of my WXW to my daughter. I take caution to avoid undermining her or trying to turn my daughter against her. The impulse is certainly there, believe me. What my ex-wife did is unconscionable and my opinion of her as a human being is decidedly negative and even now there are days when I want to sit down with my daughter and tell her that her mother is a lowlife and a whore. But I don't. And I never will. My feelings about my marriage and my WXW are between me and her, and I'm not going to drag my daughter down into that mess. When she's old enough, I'll give her the truth and leave it to her to decide what she wants to do with it. Until then, her mother is her mother and she is to be afforded the credibility and authority she's due as a parent.

[This message edited by firenze at 5:21 PM, November 15th (Thursday)]

EvolvingSoul posted 11/15/2018 17:31 PM

Hi there islesguy,

What are you hoping is the outcome of posting about this? Are you looking for advice? Support? An opportunity to self-flagellate? Hoping your BS will read it? Venting?

prissy4lyfe posted 11/15/2018 17:38 PM

She called you a hypocrite because you continue to ask for advice, swear your gonna do different....then right back to the same crap.
I have watched you post over and over again...and I usually avoid commenting.
But I'm not to let others run your wife down when YOU know the kind of husband you are.

As far as adults making mistakes...of course we do. HOWEVER AS ADULTS we the ability to see that doing the same thing over and over to our partners(not following thru I'm promises)....while telling our children to follow thru....does in fact make you a hypocrite.

I'm SURE your wife would prefer you shared your mistake and the actions you took to make it right so your daughter can SEE a good example. But you can't. Becuase you haven't done the real work yet.

islesguy posted 11/15/2018 21:59 PM

HTD2015

Why are you involving your daughter in your marital issues/conversations?

My comment to my daughter wasn't about marital issues or about any affair topics, it was that I have done the same, blowing off of responsibility. I have told them the same when I talk to them about lying stating that I have also been a liar and that it is a very hurtful thing. I don't see how using myself as an example is a bad thing.

islesguy posted 11/15/2018 22:01 PM

thatbpguy,

And to use a child like this is unforgivable.

I didn't use my child for anything, I just pointed out that the things I have done by not doing what I said I would do was wrong and it is wrong for her also.

islesguy posted 11/15/2018 22:05 PM

jaynelovesvera,

Thank you for your comments, your comments about lies and talking about my own failures to do what I said I would do are what has been stressed to them not the acts of an affair.

islesguy posted 11/15/2018 22:09 PM

firenze,

I'm also somewhat irked at your BW for calling you a hypocrite over this

My BS didn't call me a hypocrite, I called myself a hypocrite. Her comment was that I haven't had any punishment for my actions which is why I called myself a hypocrite while I was considering my daughters punishment.

islesguy posted 11/15/2018 22:11 PM

EvolvingSoul,

What are you hoping is the outcome of posting about this? Are you looking for advice?

I was looking for advice on how to handle things like this when I feel very guilty inside for being authoritative to my kids for things that I have done again and again. jaynelovesvera's response was what I was looking for.

islesguy posted 11/15/2018 22:16 PM

prissy4lyfe,

She called you a hypocrite because you continue to ask for advice, swear your gonna do different....then right back to the same crap.
But I'm not to let others run your wife down when YOU know the kind of husband you are.

Again, she wasn't the one who used the term hypocrite, that was me and I agree with your comments about me and what kind of husband I have been to her. I appreciate you standing up for her. It also bothers me that there were negative comments about her but that was obviously my fault in the way I wrote my original post.

pinkpggy posted 11/16/2018 08:04 AM

So she thinks you haven't been "punished." I just don't like that thought. You are not a child, you made poor choices, and yes you have paid consequences, and you internally are paying the price every day with the turmoil you live in.

I guess she broke her streak of not speaking to you so should could get in few more jabs. I think its weird that you would discipline your kid and say daddy is a liar too. Or whatever. That isn't a normal reaction, its like your wife wants to embarrass you or you want to embarrass yourself.

Do you have any self worth left?

islesguy posted 11/16/2018 08:21 AM

pinkpggy,

You have mischaracterized what I said. Her jabs as you refer to them were not jabs but just pointing out the simple facts that I haven't had consequences because I still am able to be with my kids everyday, I still have my job, I still live in my home, still have holidays together, etc.

As far as self worth, no I don't.

HellFire posted 11/16/2018 08:23 AM

I know I certainly felt punished,for a long time after dday. Punished for trusting too much. Punished for not being good enough. It's normal for a BS to want their WS to feel punished. It's not helpful for R, but it's normal.

His wife lives,every day, with internal conflict.

A BS eats a shit sandwich. There's nothing wrong with expecting the WS to eat some of it as well.

Maybe his wife does want to humiliate him. A BS certainly feels humiliated. More so than a WS, in my opinion. Again, not the best for R, but normal.

It's odd how a WS drops a bomb on the marriage, then wants the BS to be calm,kind, respectful, and fair.

I wish your wife would post more. It seems some feel you're trying so hard, but when your wife posted(and you said her post was completely accurate), it revealed a whole different story. You come on here to talk about how you're trying,but failing. But your wife said that's not true. You're all talk,and very little action. And,IIRC, you put your wife through years of emotional and verbal abuse.


Edited for clarity.

[This message edited by HellFire at 10:11 AM, November 16th (Friday)]

Zugzwang posted 11/16/2018 09:05 AM

Our children learn from our choices. Maybe if we shared more often, more people would know how to fix them when they come around or avoid them to begin with. I like that you two have shared this. What I don't understand is why you have to come up with something as punishment. It should be a set punishment already that you mutually agreed upon. I also don't think it was good to say you were being hypocritical about it to her. IMO you aren't. Regardless of what you did, she still needs to learn boundaries and actions have consequences. Some marital issues need to be shared if it is obvious the children see the consequences. After all they are learning from us how to be married. Makes sense to say in very general terms, I made a bad choice...this is how I fixed it. This is what happens to other people when you don't follow through with your actions. This is how it makes them feel. Being a hypocrite about it (this is how you feel and you are again sharing your internal pain making the situation all about you), is something that is a private issue for you. When we talk to our kids there isn't punishment. It is consequence. You could have done A, B, or C. One would have ended with ....another could have ended with .... as your consequence. You chose B and it is was wrong. Your consequence is ..... It is because of your action and your choice. Not punishment. If you don't want that consequence, then next time think it through and choose differently. Punishment makes it sound like you are putting the blame on an outside force and the trespasser doesn't really own it. Consequence of choice. Cause and effect. That is what we focus on.

islesguy posted 11/16/2018 12:46 PM

HellFire,

You come on here to talk about how you're trying,but failing

I am not sure where you read me stating that I have tried so much, I have never made that claim.

I am also not sure where your statement about the the WS expecting the BS to be calm, kind, respectful, and fair. Perhaps, that was a general statement because it isn't something that I expect. My post was about how I deal with my children when I feel like a hypocrite.

islesguy posted 11/16/2018 12:49 PM

Zugzwang,

The problem I have is if my daughter were to ask where was my consequence of choice which was the same question my BS asked that I could not answer.

ibonnie posted 11/16/2018 13:08 PM

The problem I have is if my daughter were to ask where was my consequence of choice which was the same question my BS asked that I could not answer.

1. Is this a hypothetical question? Or is your daughter aware of your infidelity and might legitimately ask you this?

2. You know that saying, "be the change you want to see in the world"? If you want to change, do it. Be an honest person. Keep your word. Show integrity.

Be a dad that can say, "yeah, I was messed up and cheated, but I didn't want to be that person anymore, so I examined my thoughts and actions and took steps to change. Hindsight is 20/20, and I'm using my wisdom and experience to try and help you to avoid the same mistakes or poor choices I've made in life."

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