"You can survive this. Talk to others that have"

ff4152 posted 11/15/2018 08:07 AM

Not to belabor the point, but I saw an article on Yahoo titled “This is why I cheated on my husband. Five women explain what forced them into the decision” With the exception of one of the stories, the rest are all such self justification bullshit. The only “exception” (kinda) was one woman’s husband having Altzheimers. I suppose the arguements there could go either way but in the end, just another example of the media making the idea of cheating more acceptable.

josiep posted 11/15/2018 08:41 AM

Not to belabor the point, but I saw an article on Yahoo titled “This is why I cheated on my husband. Five women explain what forced them into the decision” With the exception of one of the stories, the rest are all such self justification bullshit. The only “exception” (kinda) was one woman’s husband having Altzheimers. I suppose the arguements there could go either way but in the end, just another example of the media making the idea of cheating more acceptable.

Yahoo is in the business of making money. They publish what they think the public wants to read, that's how they make money. If no one clicked on the article, it would die off and not make them any profit.

I don't believe "the media" has any vested interest in making adultery more acceptable. Some of "them" have no doubt been betrayed and some of "them" have no doubt been the cheater. The very conversation you overheard at your workplace could very well happen in the Yahoo employee cafeteria.

What makes adultery acceptable is people not speaking out against it and politicians not speaking out against it (yes, I actually wrote that sentence and I'll leave it there but I'm exploding on my insides right now) and churches not speaking out against it.

And so if you want to speak out, I encourage you to do so and not let anyone stop you.

destroyedwayward posted 11/15/2018 14:20 PM

test

still-living posted 11/15/2018 17:08 PM

What is the point of this thread, ff. Can you tell me?

ff4152 posted 11/15/2018 17:43 PM

Still-living

At its core, I was describing an experience I had that I thought worth sharing. I was hoping to hear feedback from others and if they had similar encounters with people. It was also a bit of a commentary on how people seem to think an A is no big deal.

[This message edited by ff4152 at 6:10 PM, November 15th (Thursday)]

sewardak posted 11/15/2018 19:08 PM

it is a big deal. a very big deal. like, if one cant handle monogamy, they should exit stage right.

[This message edited by sewardak at 7:09 PM, November 15th (Thursday)]

Striver posted 11/15/2018 20:00 PM

it is a big deal. a very big deal. like, if one cant handle monogamy, they should exit stage right.

But that's what these people did! They couldn't handle monogamy. So they divorced and married each other.

People who can't handle monogamy shouldn't get married in the first place. If they do, they should face the fact that their betrayals hurt people very badly.

ff4152 posted 11/17/2018 07:50 AM

Striver

People who can't handle monogamy shouldn't get married in the first place

I’m curious, exactly how would that work? I’m guessing that most WS don’t get married with the intention of cheating, at least I know I didn’t.

sewardak posted 11/17/2018 08:59 AM

But if they cant handle it within the marriage they can also let their BS go to live a less hurtful life.

Striver posted 11/17/2018 13:55 PM

Striver
People who can't handle monogamy shouldn't get married in the first place

I’m curious, exactly how would that work? I’m guessing that most WS don’t get married with the intention of cheating, at least I know I didn’t.

I can answer my own question, I guess.

It would be considerate to faithful partners if cheating partners didn't marry them. But I have to keep in mind that cheating partners really don't care. Otherwise, they wouldn't cheat in the first place.

So cheating partners get the best of both worlds, by lying. They create the impression that they will be faithful without intending to be faithful. So it's a win-win. Leave marriages when they choose to, while demanding different behavior from partners. Yes, it's hypocritical, but many cheats have narcissistic tendencies anyway, so they don't care about playing fair.

Anyway, your point in making this post is to complain about people who cheated in their marriage then divorcing and marrying each other. A few points:

1) I called this an edge issue in another post. Many people, including people here, do believe it's worse to cheat and stay in a marriage than to actually divorce your partner... so you can sleep with other people and marry them.

Personally, for me it was not. I do not know of any incidents of my ex W having a PA. EA, yes. She left because of the EA and married him.

In my personal circumstance the AP was someone xW was friends with before we ever met. He was a commitmentphobe at the time and would not have had the kids the xW wanted. He was single at the time we were married. But as soon as he was willing to commit to her she dropped me like a hot potato. Clearly I was always second choice to her, and in this sort of thing second choice really is first loser. Who cares what we ever had. Clearly it was all a lie from day one with her.

I think people should go into marriages with commitment and not just stay in them until they "fall in love" with an outside party, thus ending the marriage. That is not commitment, to me. Yes, people have control over their behavior in a marriage. Yes, it's possible to develop feelings for outside people in a marriage. That does not mean you need to act on those feelings. Crushes go away. But clearly, a lot of people here disagree. And in real life too. That's why I would not have spoken up where you did, simply because it's too tough an argue in real life. Not because it's isn't something I believe.

Anyway, I got lied to from day one. My solution to protecting faithful people, who are my primary concern, is that the marriage contract should be substantially altered and reduced. If anyone can walk away at any time, the contract really isn't worth much. So make it so. You have kids, it's 50-50 custody no matter what, don't expect financial support from a partner unless you specifically contract to do so. The default should be to assume nothing.

I'm not the one who ruined marriage. Others have done that. But I don't need to just sit around. I want to protect the faithful from getting ripped off.

Gravycake posted 11/17/2018 15:21 PM

There is a harsh reality for people who have felt both sides of this situation. You can’t ask someone who has been devastated to understand what it is like to destroy someone they love. And you can’t ask someone who’s had their world turned upside down to put themselves in a cheaters shoes. If you haven’t lived it, the chances of understanding it are zero. Period. Advise is great. Living it is another ballgame altogether.

Zugzwang posted 11/17/2018 17:01 PM

Yes, it's possible to develop feelings for outside people in a marriage.

Why? Even if you choose to not cheat, should you be putting yourself in an emotional situation to develop those types of feelings for an outside party? Just saying. That sounds like a slippery slope. If you are developing feelings for an outside party, it seems to me that you are sharing too much of your emotional self with someone other than your spouse. Unless you are the type that believes in some bullshit love at first site stuff.

It would be considerate to faithful partners if cheating partners didn't marry them.

I bet most of us never considered we were the cheating type when we married. I know I wasn't. Never said hi or gave the time of day to another woman till nearly 8 years into our marriage when another woman constantly flirted with me at work. Had no idea before that, that I was that selfish, weak, or broken. Never would have imagined I would cheat on my best friend that I had chased for nearly 7 years before we started to date and eventually married.

Rideitout posted 11/17/2018 17:09 PM

Yes, it's possible to develop feelings for outside people in a marriage.

Not if you don't talk to them it's not. Which is my standard operating procedure with women I find attractive. If I can avoid talking to them, I will. If I have to talk to them, I'm guarded and try to end the conversation as soon as possible.

It's not possible to develop feelings for someone if you don't put yourself into the situations where you can have the conversations or interactions that cause feelings to develop. Why tempt fate?

Striver posted 11/17/2018 18:09 PM

Not if you don't talk to them it's not. Which is my standard operating procedure with women I find attractive. If I can avoid talking to them, I will. If I have to talk to them, I'm guarded and try to end the conversation as soon as possible.

It's not possible to develop feelings for someone if you don't put yourself into the situations where you can have the conversations or interactions that cause feelings to develop. Why tempt fate?

I agree with you. But there are still fantasies. Not acting on the fantasies, not having those sorts of intimate conversations with the opposite sex, is going to eliminate most real life damage.

There are situations where one person is very persistent in their pursuit, and married people still need boundaries so if they do get it offered up on a silver platter, they still turn it down.

Zugzwang posted 11/20/2018 08:55 AM

But there are still fantasies.

If you are having fantasies then are you really saying to yourself you are off limits? IMPOV. No. IMO, there shouldn't even be fantasies. Fantasies for what? Then, it is clear you aren't making yourself happy or enough for yourself. Or you are choosing to stay in a bad situation. Making yourself- not the marriage or spouse- making you unhappy.

There are situations where one person is very persistent in their pursuit, and married people still need boundaries so if they do get it offered up on a silver platter, they still turn it down.

Yeah, it is called a conscience and not needing the validation with self control not even having to be an issue. Let alone marriage police. If you don't need or look or show you are open to it. Then, it really doesn't matter how hard someone pursues you. You really don't have to control the stimuli. Just yourself. Not to say that avoiding giving someone else a chance to act like a prick with you isn't a bad idea. Just saying if you weren't so weak and needy it wouldn't matter.

Striver posted 11/21/2018 07:23 AM

If you are having fantasies then are you really saying to yourself you are off limits? IMPOV. No. IMO, there shouldn't even be fantasies. Fantasies for what? Then, it is clear you aren't making yourself happy or enough for yourself. Or you are choosing to stay in a bad situation. Making yourself- not the marriage or spouse- making you unhappy.

About the time when my xW was having her EA and preparing her exit I had some seven year itch type thoughts. There was no actual real life person interaction, I never flirted with or talked to women any differently, and it went away after a couple of months.

xW was far more interested and intrigued by the concept of affairs and cheating, as I gather from a few offhand comments at the time. Which is why she did what she did.

I can empathize with internal struggles and temptations. I am not going to play mind police. Never having a tempted thought, I am not that strong. Crossing lines with actions is a whole different matter.

Zugzwang posted 11/21/2018 09:03 AM

Never having a tempted thought, I am not that strong.

That is the point. Focus on what causes the tempted thought. Fix that. What is it? Are you bored? Get a hobby. Things need spiced up? Do more for your wife. Tempted thoughts are just you lacking in some area of your life. It isn't about white-knuckle and avoiding things. Though easy for me to say because I have cheated and I did learn. I learn to be grateful for what I do have and not to be looking for what I don't. When you internally become happy for yourself in healthy ways. You don't get temptations. At least it hasn't been so for me for many years now since 2years out from Dday. You figure out why you aren't that strong or why you are so unhappy. In your case, I get it. You are dealing with being a BS. What was the excuse before she cheated? Like I say all the time, I am not Christian. I grew up Christian and if I remember correctly even having the thought damns you. I think if there was a God he was making a point. You are doing something wrong if you have the thought.

Cephastion posted 11/21/2018 09:10 AM

Earlier it was said:

ff, nothing you ever say or do is going to change the minds of some people. Save your breath.

Which ff seemingly in frustration replied:

You're absolutely right. I suppose I'm a slow learner but I guess I foolishly hope that people would accept that this is my position on things right now.

I would VERY STRONGLY challenge and disagree with this kind of thinking and line of reasoning.

SI's very existence and continuation as well as the changes I've seen in myself, my wife, and other situations that I myself have spoken into... All of this stands to refute such assertions.

I think too, that ff is changing for the better as well, incidentally, even while I in no way condone what I see as a fear-based motive for his continued status quo on refusing to uncover the truth for him and his wife about his own adultery and OW.

Cephastion posted 11/21/2018 09:50 AM

(it seems that my new phone is being a bit quirky with quotes on here)

I would say for my own part on this topic that this OP issue reminds me very much of what I personally consider the most famous and possibly definable change of an adulterer from wayward to remorseful/repentant and from lost and selfish to being redeemed and empathic.

King David was once brought to face an injustice similar in nature to what he himself was very presently guilty of by a "co-worker" of his one day. In his zeal and hypocrisy, he made very strong judgements against the other "guilty party" that he was asked to render judgement on in the seemingly fictional case of the poor shepherd who had been defrauded of his one and only beloved lamb by the greedy tyrant-bully who had nothing but himself in mind in the defrauding.

It was by way of this indirect exposure of his hypocrisy and sympathy/empathy for the defrauded shepherd that the Lord and the vocal whistle-blowing prophet brought him to REALLY experience empathy and remorse for what he (King David) HIMSELF was CURRENTLY guilty of lying and hiding while he himself decried the shame and injustice of the other man and what he had suffered at the hands of another.

If God calls out our crimes and bids us to do such for one another...

And if a man and even "untouchable" KING can be brought to see the light by such means as this method that God and the prophet/whistle blower employed to effect such a change in character...

Then who are we to say that such means are ineffectual to use in the present day and age we live in?

And who are we to say that our responsibility to our "neighbor" or co-workers or anonymous online guilty persons is dependent upon what we assume their reaction will be?

I call others out on their sin and cowardice and crimes for ME and my own sense of duty to them and those around them as well as conscience's sake.

And if ff's conscience is more engaged for his "neighbor" or coworkers than it is for himself or his wife and family...then at least it is engaged to some degree. Caring about right and wrong and those around us is EVERYONE'S BUSINESS, not just based on what we get out of the deal but what our whole WORLD gets out of the deal.

Pat, pat, ff!

(What in the hell is wrong with wanting an "amen!"/pat-on-the-back for actually caring about someone and something instead of apathy, coldness, or indifference anyway??? God knows that there's enough silence and indifference in this awful world as it is at this point!)

If it worked to help get King David back to being a good shepherd of his "flock" and kingdom, then my hope would be that it could have the same effect (ff-ect) on YOU as well!

My wife needed an empathy jumpstart/defibrilation to get HER wayward heart to finally beating to the beat of a less selfish drum as well, so keep posting, please!

We all need truth and light and help of one kind or another, after all.

[This message edited by Cephastion at 10:35 AM, November 21st (Wednesday)]

Bigger posted 11/21/2018 09:58 AM

Net time the gang is in the break-room discussing light issues like infidelity then bring this up:
Tell them that you have a great idea on how to decrease sexual assault and rape. Point out that in certain countries the family of a sexually abused or raped woman makes her marry the assailant. That way it’s not really “rape” per se. And since they married each other then it’s not really a big deal.
See how they swallow that logic.