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Betrayed Menz Thread-Part 33

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Loukas posted 5/10/2019 11:31 AM

Good to see you step out of your hiatus, Los. How have you been?

hadji posted 5/10/2019 12:18 PM

So, yeah... stories like WAL's may not exactly scare the shit out of me, but they do remind me that there's no incontrovertible reason to believe that my wife might be any different. In the meantime, I hope for the best and prepare myself for the worst.

Then how do you live a life like that Unhinged? I never reconciled. But if the aftermath of an affair does not bring permanent change in the WS, do you ever learn to love them back without a lingering doubt in the mind that this person can still cause destruction. Wouldn't it be like enjoying all the small things they offer now, still waiting for the other shoe to drop?

My guess is you are living a life enjoying all the small joys that a FWS offers but still don't become vulnerable to them, because you fear you'll always be hurt. Is that correct? Is that the price all the BS has to pay (even the ones who never Rd like me. Yes I am married to a wonderful woman, but I know she is capable of cheating, because I once believed my X-F was "incapable" of that. Now, I am only relaxed because my wife and my X-F are polar opposites when it comes to boundaries. Otherwise I wouldn't just blindly trust my wife)

LosferWords posted 5/10/2019 12:26 PM

Loukas - Doing good, man, thanks! Divorce still hasn't happened due to extenuating circumstances, but STBX and I are getting along better than ever, and are both on the same page about what we want out of the D. We're going to go through mediation soon and hope to have a no contest D, so it should go fairly quickly. Other than that, just enjoying life. Things have been very peaceful.

stolenyears posted 5/10/2019 14:31 PM

I should rephrase what I said. I don't live in fear of relapse from my fWW. If it does happen, although it would hurt like hell and be unfortunate, the D protocol will be initiated and we will be done. I am grateful for all of the new tools I have in my toolbag to deal with loss and betrayal that I never new existed. I also have a crazy new psychology vocabulary that I can rattle off and sound like a therapist, so I would be able to move on regardless. With the new sense of self worth and lower levels of codependence, I know I can move on without her. I would love for her to join me for the journey, but her presence is not required for me to have a great life.

Now, it's Friday and I have some bourbon that needs to be consumed...

Loukas posted 5/10/2019 15:39 PM

Good to hear, Los! Enjoy the peace.

sisoon posted 5/10/2019 16:46 PM

Good to hear from you Los, and on a Friday, too. I miss the photos.

Great post, Tred!

How does one live in R, knowing that one's W cheated and may cheat again?

My answer is: I don't fear that my W will betray me again. If she does, I know I'll again feel immense pain, but I can deal with that. I'm no better or worse than w_a_l; my W is no better or worse than w_a_l's XW. But w_a_l has his life, and I, mine. We're not the same. W_a_l sure writes better than I do.

Before I committed to R, every issue was go/stay. Every issue, no matter how minor. Also, before I committed to R, I saw myself living a good life both after successful R and after D.

Since committing, I assume we can resolve every issue, but if we can't, we D. Since I see myself living a good life after D, D is an OK solution.

Don't get me wrong, I've loved my W since 1965, and I'd like to die in each other's arms - but if we hit an issue that we can't resolve, our M ends.

Also, IMO, a healed WS is less likely to cheat again than a new person I may meet, analagous to a broken bone. I mean that 'IMO' literally; it's no more than a guess.

Also IMO, along the lines Tred laid out, a BS who heals himself sees life more clearly, and part of that is seeing his partner and her potentials. Delaying the D/R decision allows the healing to take hold. By the time I committed, I knew what I wanted, I was very confident that my W was committed to doing the necessary work to R, I had come to trust myself to evaluate the probability of successful R, and I had no fears about recovering in case R failed.

So that was my calculation. You've got to figure out your own values and their relative weights to come to your own conclusion.

[This message edited by sisoon at 4:50 PM, May 10th (Friday)]

Tred posted 5/10/2019 17:06 PM

I miss the Koda pics as well...

Unhinged posted 5/10/2019 20:35 PM

Then how do you live a life like that Unhinged?
Choices, brother. My son was 4yo on d-day. I opted to give her a chance to own and fix her shit and she did (hopefully). Four years later there's still a lingering doubt that she'll be faithful for the rest of our lives (or marriage). I don't know if that ever goes away. Some BHs will say that it does. Others, of course, never give it much consideration and simply D. I could have done the same, I suppose, but the thought of missing out on so much of the boy's life was just unbearable.

In the few years I've been on SI, I've read quite a few posts from WAL and every time I've learned something, gained a little insight and wisdom. Now, I've gained a little more. It's entirely possible that I could end up writing a very similar post one day, announcing to the Menz here that my wife just up and left me for another man. Then again, maybe it will be me announcing to these fine gentleman that I've up and left for another woman. My wife has to live with that, as well, you know?

Nothing lasts. That's just the nature of the Universe.

* * *

Good to 'hear' from you LosferWords. I hope you're doing well. Sorry to hear the D is dragging out. When it does come through, it's party-time, brother. Lots of Betrayed Menz around our neck of the woods.

HoldingTogether posted 5/10/2019 22:04 PM

Hadji,

You answered your own question brother:

Is that the price all the BS has to pay (even the ones who never Rd like me. Yes I am married to a wonderful woman, but I know she is capable of cheating, because I once believed my X-F was "incapable" of that.

Unfortunately there isnít any way to really know for your WS has experienced ďpermanent changeĒ. Iím not sure there even is such a thing as permanent change. The only thing I know for sure about people is they are always changing. Sometimes for good sometimes for ill. Sometimes forward progress sometimes backward.

But thatís true for everyone, WS, BS, and people who have never been touched, so far at least, by infidelity. So living with R isnít all that different than living with any relationship after experiencing infidelity. It means living with the knowledge that this other person can hurt you, just like anybody you let close to you can hurt you. Reconcile or divorce that fact is simply incontrovertible.

End of the day, R or D, the only way to innoculate yourself from heartache is to close your heart off to anyone and everyone.

Which is a shitty way to live.

So you take your shot. D and eventually maybe try again with some new risky person or R and try again with the devil you know. I suppose they both have their pros and cons. At the end of the day I decided that it was my turn to be selfish. I would decide which course to take based solely on what I wanted and only on what I wanted. Fuck vows and commitments or preserving the family unit... what did I want.

And it turns out that what I wanted was my wife... provided of course she could get her head back out of her ass and convince me that she had gotten her shit together. It seems at this point that she has done both those things. But Iím not foolish enough to think for one second that I have any guarantees. I canít see inside her head to know whatís really going on in there and, even if I could there are no guarantees that shit wouldnít change tomorrow. Thatís the nature of the beast. You pays your money and you takes your chances.

Thatís not to say Iím always entirely sanguine with my choices. Iíll be perfectly honest with you a, recent post in wayward bothered me a lot. And having that followed by WALís announcement (WAL you already know how I feel about you man... what an important part you played in my healing... Iím not gonna go into that here, I know that you know. I fuckin love you man) the combo of those two posts was like a one-two punch to the ballsack for me this week. To be perfectly honest I havenít been taking those two pieces of information real well.

And itís not because itís busting some fantasy bubble I have about R, or destroying some illusion I have about guarantees. I know there arenít any guarantees. And like Tred and Stolenyears and Sisoon all so elegantly stated: if my wife falls back, it will hurt like hell.... but it wonít destroy me the way it almost did the first time.

Not because Iíve closed off my heart to loving her, but because Iíve opened my heart to loving myself.

I know that sounds fucking new age and touchy feely, but itís true. The HT before Dday didnít like himself very much, I depended in part on this image of myself as a husband to bolster and validate my self esteem and self worth. My wifeís utter rejection of that image tore down the foundations I had built so much of my identity upon. It almost destroyed me.

But Iíve rebuilt and remodeled since then. These days my self esteem and sense of self worth are internally generated. They canít be destroyed by external factors because they come from within. These days the only person that can destroy my self esteem is myself. And I keep a close check on that fucking jackass, whip him into shape whenever he starts slipping.

No, I think the thing that bothers me more about these stories of relapses is more this unfocused anger I feel on behalf of the betrayed. I feel angry that their gift of R was treated so shabbily. And I feel angered because I know that any WS that put in the time here on SI damn well knows the damage, damn well knows the pain, damn well knows the fucking theft of another human beings time energy and potential that they are perpetrating.

And they do it anyway.

I have a hard time with that. I think if I am guilty of having any sort of fantasy bubble at all. It is of stubbornly continuing to believe that people are still essentially good at heart and that they couldnít possibly behave so badly if they really and truly understood the damage and pain that their actions are causing to other human beings.

And yet here we are. Fuck.

Like I said, having a tough time this week. Not because I am afraid of suffering another Dday. But because Iím afraid that people in general may just be worse than I wanted to believe.

Sorry guys. Didn't mean to be a downer, just processing.

WAL I love you man.

Losfer, great to see you man love you too.

Tred, I just have ambiguously sexual feelings about you... donít make it weird.

Loukas long time no talk, keep up the good fight.

I know I missed a couple but I love you guys too. WAL always brings the old Betrayed Menís crowd out of hiding. Bummer it was under less than ideal circumstances.

Onward and upward,
HT

wincing_at_light posted 5/10/2019 22:56 PM

...less than ideal circumstances.

Let's not go putting words in my mouth there, chief.

HoldingTogether posted 5/11/2019 05:46 AM

Let's not go putting words in my mouth there, chief.

otto posted 5/11/2019 10:50 AM

HT -

I have to say that your last post really struck a chord with me. Lots of food for thought as I walk this path. Thank you.

And for all the other Menz on this board: thank you all for guidance, wisdom and friendship over the past three years. It means the world to me. I rarely post but I do read daily.
You are all a godsend.

ChangeMaker posted 5/13/2019 11:03 AM

Hello Boyz...

I like to drop in here once in a while to give an update, to see how things are going with you guys, and, hopefully, to let some of you know that things get better.

Sorry to hear about your marriage, WAL. You gave it what you had, and now it's time for another chapter. You sense of humour is still in tact, and that's a good start.

Me?... I've sold my old Honda VTX 1300 and picked up a brand spankin' new Honda Goldwing. The main reason is that, unlike XWW, my new girl likes riding around and spending time doing things that I'M interested in.

Kids are healthy and happy. Things have been at a peaceful pace with XWW for quite some time now, though I have to remind her fairly regularly that many things are none of her concern. She's still a selfish bumbling moron, but it doesn't affect me much anymore.

Things are all good here, boys, and they will be with you too.

Everything works, if you let it - Travis W. Redfish

LosferWords posted 5/13/2019 17:39 PM

When it does come through, it's party-time, brother.

You know it, Unhinged! Still hoping to git 'er dun this year. Hoping to have the process well kicked off and underway before our boys' first preseason kickoff on 8/1.

hadji posted 5/15/2019 10:32 AM

Thanks for the replies sisoon, HT, stolenyears and Unhinged

I understand what you are saying. I walked away only because I had nothing to lose in terms of kids or family. I thought I wouldn't have to pay the price for her infidelity and yet I indeed am paying the price in terms of my altered understanding of love and relationships. This change is good in a sense I am stronger, but the hurt I had to go through was really bad.

But when offered, would I have taken the bluepill? Perhaps yes. I do miss the feeling of trusting unconditionally and "being in love" without having to look at it objectively.

BrainFreeze posted 5/28/2019 15:36 PM

I'm a little late, but WAL, I'm sorry.

@HT - Great post; I read it a few times.

Montreal posted 5/28/2019 17:01 PM

Hey WAL, just wanted to add my voice to the chorus of those thanking you for all your help over the years. I've saved quite a few of your posts and still read them from time to time. You, and many others on this forum, truly were life savers. Thank you.

Unhinged posted 6/3/2019 00:15 AM

So, here's a big WTF moment for ya, gentz.

As many of you know, I'm a die-hard Blues fan. We were both born in the same year, 1967. My parents had season tickets for about a decade. I don't remember my first game. I was an infant. But you know, the Blue Note made an impression and to this day it's still a holy symbol.

My wife hasn't watched a game with me yet. Not one. Last night she went out with some family friends. I was invited, too, but I think they already knew the answer that one. She didn't even ask if I'd mind if she went out with them. She tells me she'll be back before the third period. Pfft. Right! That didn't fucking happen. No surprise there. She texted about 10pm (game was over just before 9pm here) saying they'd paid the check. She strolls in around 11:30, drunk, and immediately starts in about the game and what happened to the Blues?!

Fuck!

"If you were really interested you'd have watched the game," was the only thing I said to her before I slunked off to bed, tired, high, and disappointed by a very nervous and jittery start by my boys in Blue.

Every so often, she'll ask me if I want to do something as a couple to strengthen the bonds. One suggestion--and I seriously can't stop buggin' over this one--was reading Gottman's 7 whatevers of a healthy marriage book together. One of the things he mentions in the book is doing things as a spouse that you might not necessarily enjoy, such as going to church with her because it strengthens the bonds.

I think this just might be the deal-breaker!

Seriously! What the fuck, Menz?! It's the Stanley fucking Cup finals! I've never seen this (at least not that I can remember, last time I was three years old)! I've been hoping and prayin and watchin and lovin', crying and ragin for... well, shit... my whole fucking life!

What the fuck? We were just over at this couples' house last weekend for a Memorial Day BBQ! She plays tennis with the wife!

She gave me a love-languages quiz-thingy a couple of years ago and I maxed out quality time.

Fuck this shit!

[This message edited by Unhinged at 12:16 AM, June 3rd (Monday)]

crazyinlove1995 posted 6/3/2019 08:24 AM

Well damn Unhinged.. Infidelity sucks...Stay strong man

sisoon posted 6/3/2019 17:23 PM

I've been to a couple of ballet performances to please my W. I enjoyed doing that, though the last time (probably pre-A), the music was Tchaikovsky's 5th Symphony, so it was like a symphony concert, which she used to go to to please me.... Hmmm.

I don't know if you're being ironic, but I totally believe I'd watch something with my W just because she wants to watch it. (Oh, yeah ... I watch the execrable Grey's Anatomy with her.)

The examples are trivial. The meaning/implications aren't.

I'm sorry you're going through this.

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