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Spouses with Same Gender APs

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cmego posted 2/17/2017 10:04 AM

Hey guys! An old timer popping in to say hello...

I've read some of the recent discussions and will tell you what my ex said during R.

Backstory: together for 17 years, married for 15. By the time ex was outed, he had been having (at least) several years of affairs. Most short term, anonymous, with one longer-term AP who knew he was married. At the time he said some of the same stuff: "I'm not gay. I'm not bi. I'm just me." "I didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would." "I don't know why I did it". "I just wanted to see what the gay life was like" "I deserved to cheat because I needed to figure myself out. I'm not gay"

I had the first therapist tell me that she wasn't sure if he was bi or gay...but that he clearly loved me. EX wanted to work on the marriage and we did attempt R for about 6 months or more...then my anger phase hit and he couldn't handle it. Or, he went back to his old coping mechanism which was to contact the AP "to talk". When I found out they were in contact, I left the marriage. I didnt' have any chances left in me. My kids were 5 and 8 at the time and I no longer wanted to live in that world.

NOW...flash forward 7 years...ex is openly gay. We have never had a discussion about how he could have done what he did, or why he covered for so long, or when he realized he is gay. He isn't capable of being that open with me. The only thing he ever said during R was that he had been questioning himself early on, but met me, fell in love, and thought that meant he should be straight. He also said a lot of "I didnt' want to hurt you"

Does this mean your H is covering that he's really gay? Who the hell knows. Just because you're bi/gay doesn't mean you get to cheat. The issue for most of us is the cheating...not really the bi/gay question. Plenty of people are bi and stay in one sex monogamous relationships.

So...you deal with the infidelity first:

Is this person a safe partner for you?
Do you see the hard work going on to become a safe partner? (Attending IC, workbooks, reading, journaling, trustworthy)
Are they actively being open with you about their thoughts?
Do you know where they are at all times?
Do you see ANY suspicious behavior?

THIS^^^ will tell you more than anything else. My ex held it together for a few months...then slipped once the hard work really began. THAT is what I can tell you guys. Was it because he was really gay? I don't think so. I think what that R time showed me was that regardless of his sexuality...he wasn't a good partner and didn't have the strength to become one.

Flash forward: I did a lot of IC. I went to grad school. I have my kids 90% of the time. The kids relationship with ex is deteriorating. Ex is openly gay, but this partner is not someone the kids like....and exhibits signs of passive aggressiveness, and overall immaturity. Ex contents to be NPD, passive aggressive, and controlling. In other words...he hasn't changed.

I remarried a little over a year ago. there are still ghosts, but we work through them. He is a good, good, good man and I feel very lucky. I am very happy, and very happy to not be in my first marriage any longer. I am very happy I left. It was rough for a few years, but things settled down, I healed, and life and love found me again.

I can't tell you guys to stay or go. That choice is yours. The best advice I received early on from a therapist was to "have a plan B". So, I did. I waited and watched ex, and when he started showing signs he wasn't a good partner...then I exited. Have a plan B, decide what you want from a relationship and see if your partner can fulfill those needs.

sisoon posted 2/17/2017 13:55 PM

Whoa, cmego, a blast from the past, when this thread saw very few posts.

Thanks for sharing your wisdom.

I'm really glad you found a good partner.

HowIsThisReal posted 2/19/2017 12:05 PM

Thank you for updating, and I'm glad life worked out for you.

Thankfully my FWH is proving to be a safe partner more and more every day, and he has from almost the beginning (after D-Day). I even put my engagement ring back on today, I was only wearing an inexpensive band I had gotten from Amazon.

We start MC this week, and so far 3 ICs do not think he's gay, so that's a positive I guess. I haven't pushed the bi thing too much, IDK if it would be a deal breaker for me. Call me closed minded or whatever but it's not who I knew him to be. So I guess those are things we will figure out the further we go into IC.

He still says not gay, not bi. Can't imagine a relationship, cuddling, holding hands, or any kind of romantic connection with a man, and can't even imagine himself having any kind of sexual encounter with a man now, he looks back and doesn't recognize who that person was or how he was able disconnect himself so much from reality to do those things.

Who the F knows?

[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 12:11 PM, February 19th (Sunday)]

HowIsThisReal posted 2/19/2017 21:20 PM

I'm spiraling with the 'same sex' thing again. I had moved past it a bit all this week, but now it's starting again where the thought of him doing things with men gives me heart palpitations, and makes my anxiety skyrocket.

I feel like I'm crazy sometimes to try and R with a man who's been with men. Like, if ANYONE knew they'd tell me I was SO deep in denial that I didn't know up from down.

cmego posted 2/20/2017 09:44 AM

And you know what? I ended up not telling people because I KNEW they would all tell me to run.

In a way, that was great because I didn't have to listen to those people. On the flip side...I didn't have any support. The MC kept telling me to give him chances, and my gut was telling me that I didn't know the whole story. Stupid me just kept hanging in there until something so bad happened that I couldn't ignore my gut (he got back in touch with one of the AP's because they "were friends" when my anger phase hit).

For ME, it was the right thing to do. I've moved on and got to experience a great relationship. But, for me, I got to the point where I just couldn't be around him any longer. I couldn't justify staying. I didn't want to be always wondering. Fast forward several years and he did come out gay...but I"ve heard he's told people that he misses women's bodies. I think he would have been very happy having both...me AND men. After all, I think thats what he had for many, many years.

You just have to live your life the best way for YOU. Decide what YOU want. It's OK to stay and its OK to leave.

confused615 posted 2/20/2017 09:55 AM

Cmego!

I was thinking about you the other day, wondering how you were....and here you are!

I am so happy that you've found a good man, and you're happy.

I've been ok...but I'm triggering today.

My husband usually has a full,fuzzy beard. I love it. Last weekend, he said he was going to shave it into a bushy goatee type thing. I asked him not too...telling him I preferred the full beard. What I did NOT tell him is...the last time he did the goatee was during the time he was cheating on me. So..he didn't shave...until last night. He came out of the bathroom with that damn goatee. I hate it. HATE IT!!!!!!!

HowIsThisReal posted 2/20/2017 16:55 PM

You just have to live your life the best way for YOU. Decide what YOU want. It's OK to stay and its OK to leave.

This is something I try to remind myself of often. Everyone is just doing the best they can in life. I get swept up in remotely similar stories with different outcomes and assume that will be my outcome too.

My IC and his IC have access to each other and talk about our treatment plan together each week so I know he can't really lie about anything to his IC, or my story and his story would come up different, which would be a red flag. And both IC still seem to think not bi/gay according to all other "signs" (or lack thereof). For some reason for ME, I hold onto that tightly. But no one can know that but him, and I guess only time will tell.

If I just keep remembering that everyone is doing the best they can, then I can calm myself down sometimes. Right now is NOT time for me to leave, but I'm not saying it can NEVER happen, especially if he proves to be an unsafe partner in the future. For now he's definitely a safe partner and does all he can for me to heal and for him to become a better person.

[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 6:14 PM, February 20th (Monday)]

cmego posted 2/22/2017 08:04 AM

I think the "what-if" will likely never go away. That is a direct result of showing he has the *potential* to be an unsafe partner. He cheated. He cheated with men. Those are facts.

Then you move into looking at current behavior and not past behavior. The past behavior is there, but the current behavior is what you should be watching.

Never letting completely go of the cheating/questions means you are protecting yourself...which (to me) is a good thing. That's really your primary job. Protect yourself, then next is protect your kids, and then protect the marriage.

Even as much as my now H is amazing...there is a .00125% part of me that knows no marriage is immune. I will always make sure I have a way of making money and protect myself financially. I may occasionally pick up his phone and look at it. He has the same option.

I hear you when you say that you hold onto what the therapists say. But, really they are only seeing a small part of your relationship...and only the parts that your H wants to share. Regardless of his sexual orientation, he did something that a 100% hetero guy wouldn't do. Your profile states he isn't a SA. So, something else was driving the behavior. And I have a feeling that you don't know what that "something" was...? Or don't have an answer that really makes sense to you.

I remember so many people told me "you just need to let it go, forgive him, and move on." I hated hearing that shit. That might work for some people, but that wasn't going to work for me. I'm not a "let it go and move on" type. I'm more of a "analytical, I must have the answer" type. It took a long to to come to a point of "I will not forgive him because he doesn't deserve it. I will ACCEPT it for myself".

So....I worked on acceptance. That made sense to ME.

Confused....did you tell your H about the trigger and what it meant to you?? (My current H has a big full beard too and I love it )

HowIsThisReal posted 2/22/2017 11:54 AM

So, something else was driving the behavior. And I have a feeling that you don't know what that "something" was...? Or don't have an answer that really makes sense to you.

Exactly it doesn't make sense. The ICs say that a whole childhood of sexual deviance was driving that behavior, it was modeled by his father, who slept with men for $. It was modeled by his parents who openly cheated in front of the kids, neglected him, and put their own needs above his ever since he was 6.

According to the ICs that we have seen, they have treated other men who have done the same thing, and turned out not to be gay/bi. It was emotionless, it was quick, the men had the drugs he was looking for, while many of the women didn't have drugs, but he didn't need drugs to perform with women. He apparently needed the drugs to complete the act with men.

But I get what you're saying.

His actions NOW show remorse but I have a hard time focusing on the actions now, vs his past actions. I'm not a "let it go" type of person either.

cmego posted 2/22/2017 17:38 PM

I don't ever want to come in here and say "Get out! Get out now, they are all gay!" It's just what happened to me. In addition, there were some signs along the way that he (and I) swept under the rug. Odd phone calls, odd excuses, found gay porn on an old computer, drinking became heavier, started hearing stories from his work-mates about erratic behavior at conferences (blamed on alcohol), googled hook up places while traveling. This was over a 12 or so year period. So, like something odd every 3 years? Not enough for me to wonder if my H was gay...plus I was knee deep in fear and child rearing.

My ex also had a difficult childhood, which allowed me to excuse away a lot of behavior (not cheating). Now I understand he's NPD, which likely stemmed from his childhood. I've also known people from really horrible childhoods that turned out just fine on their own without hurting a bunch of people on the way.

I hear you. It's that little "tickle" in the back of your head because YOU wouldn't have made those choices. It's hard for you to grasp. You walk through their choices and it makes zero sense.

My decision was made for me. I caught him contacting an AP "as a friend"...so I was done. I have NO IDEA what I would have done if that hadn't happened. I'm guessing I would have stayed, at least for awhile.

HowIsThisReal posted 2/25/2017 18:36 PM

Yeah I think if I had found out FWH had contacted any of them,men or women, after I decided to let him stay, I would have left too.

[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 9:03 PM, February 25th (Saturday)]

monika posted 3/3/2017 04:21 AM

I think that if my husband decided to make some strange contacts with men/ women now, when we are trying to R, that would be end of our marriage.

[This message edited by monika at 4:22 AM, March 3rd (Friday)]

monika posted 3/3/2017 04:31 AM

Hello, everyone, how are you doing?
My life is getting better. We are trying to improve our marriage and to have a better life together. My husband is still a great example of a remorsefull husband. He is doing everything right. I have had better time recently, the memories connected with his infidelity are fading. I still have moments of anger and moments when pain and fear about the future are overhelming but the brighter moments are more often. We are planning things, talking a lot and try to be as close as possible.
I had to come here today as I came across "the other gay guy" fb profile while checking my fb friends proposals....Unfortunately we have some common friends. That was a big trigger and generally a flash back. I need a hug today. The last thing I wanted to see was this fucking shitty face. It is said that acceptance that this happened is the key to succsessful reconciliation bo how can I accept this ? How can I ever accept the fact that my husband had sex with another man during our marriage? :/

[This message edited by monika at 4:32 AM, March 3rd (Friday)]

confused615 posted 3/3/2017 06:15 AM

I've never heard that the key to a successful reconciliation is the BS accepting the cheating happened. Imo, the key to a successful reconciliation,is the actions of the WS.

You said he was the perfect remorseful WS. What exactly is he doing..other than making plans for the future with you? And love bombing you? What work is he doing on himself?

As to how to deal with the fact that he had sex with a man during the marriage? After awhile, it doesn't hurt as much, and it becomes something that happened. It doesn't ever really go away.

Any mutual friends you have with the OM need to go. Otherwise,you will continue to trigger when you see them, and it's not worth it.

[This message edited by confused615 at 6:16 AM, March 3rd (Friday)]

cmego posted 3/3/2017 07:30 AM

Totally with confused on her response. While it absolutely sucks to see an AP, make sure that your anger is directed at the right person...your husband. It's easy to be angry at an AP, but they aren't the ones that broke your marriage vows.

I remember being told I just needed to forgive my ex and I could never wrap my head around "forgiveness". I worked on accepting that he wasn't who I thought he was...and the only person I needed to forgive was myself for ignoring some pretty major flags.

From what you've typed, are you hitting the anger stage? Which is a totally NORMAL part of the grieving process. You are supposed to be angry at betrayal and it is a phase you have to go through. Angry is good, it is healing.

monika posted 3/3/2017 10:08 AM

It's almost a year after DDay now. I thought that I had already left the anger stage behind me....
What is my husband doing? He did all the medical testing, he does everything to let me know what and when is he doing. I have the access to all the e-mails, his mobile phone, I can check it whenever I want ( and I still do it quite often). He is fully transparent. He takes his usual part in everyday duties and does additional things which make my everyday life easier. I appreciate it. He faces my anger and sadness and seems to understand where it all comes from. He got rid of all the mutual friends he had with OM. He keeps absolute no contact with both them and the OM. His infidelity are two ONS a few years ago. Nothing emotional and nothing long lasting but he seems to understand how huge is the damage it made.
I have been feeling quite good recently but the look at the OM face today destroyed my peace. I know that the real subject of my anger is my husband but that's awful to come across the face of OM accidently. I got rid of the mutual friends, I do not want to see him or hear about him once again.

confused615 posted 3/3/2017 12:08 PM

All good. It sounds like he's doing the work.

Is he working in IC to figure out why he chose a man? Has he figured out his sexuality?

monika posted 3/3/2017 14:33 PM

Yes, he did it long time ago. He is sure that he is bisexual. We discussed it years ago but not very deeply. To be honest - I did not want to talk about it....Now we did it. I think that we discussed every aspect of it, including stating clearly that his bisexuality is no excuse for infidelity. He agreed with that.
We are not in IC, mainly because I do not want to share what happenedn with anyone. But I am starting to think that maybe this is something that would help me and both of us. I do not know. I am not an open person and it is hard for me to think that I could share this story with anyone.

cmego posted 3/6/2017 13:03 PM

monika...I felt the same way. I did not want to tell *anyone*. I only told my mother at first, because I was blacking out after d-day and I had 2 small kids. I needed help for a few weeks while I got my feet under me.

What I realized was that EX felt relief from me knowing, but I felt like I had been pushing IN the closet. I was now holding HIS secret out of...fear? embarrassment? When I finally got into therapy, and told a few friends, my world became much better because *I* had support.

This is your life too. You have to work through the cheating and bisexuality. Look...my (now) H is a therapist. They hear some really unbelievable things (he doesn't tell me anything but the barest of details if he's had a bad day), but that is exactly what they are trained to do...help you process. If it takes a few sessions for you to trust an IC, the good ones know it takes a little while to earn that trust.

Or...keep posting here if this is the only place you feel safe.

monika posted 3/8/2017 12:43 PM

Cmego, thanks for writting this. Its better to realize I am not the only one for whom talking about it to anyone seems to be impossible. Here, this is definitely the only place where I feel I can talk about it. And, of course, it helps in a way to meet people who understand and know exactly how does it feel to be in this situation.
I haven't told anyone so far.It is embarassing and I do not want people to feel sorry for me.
On the other hand, sometimes I feel that I cannot stand the feeling if isolation connected with it any more.
I think I will try to look for a therapist. Another problem is that I have to find an English speaking one here where I live which is not so easy :/

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