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Spouses with Same Gender APs

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Trippd posted 1/30/2017 21:28 PM

Oops double post

[This message edited by Trippd at 9:28 PM, January 30th (Monday)]

HowIsThisReal posted 1/30/2017 22:07 PM

Well that is why he thought he must be bi at first, because he did what he did.
He says he doesn't feel sexually attracted to men, doesn't check them out or anything, never fantasized about sex with them, and he is so ashamed about it all.

He always felt disgust with himself immediately after the acts, but men were just easier to find, always had drugs, etc.

Or maybe I'm just in denial and making excuses for reasons to stay with him. I don't even know anymore.

I just keep telling myself that 3 therapists have agreed that he doesn't appear to be gay/bi. That has to count for something.

[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 10:33 PM, January 30th (Monday)]

HowIsThisReal posted 1/30/2017 23:12 PM

Can I ask you all who've been dealing with this so much longer than I, how did they SHOW remorse.

Transparency, GPS tracker voluntarily, accountability app voluntarily, immediate STD testing without hesitation/resistance, finding a therapist without resistance, never blaming me or using a "bad M" as an excuse, answering humiliating questions in detail when asked, apologizing when I have a trigger, never saying "get over it" in any way, shape or form, taking any verbal attacks with a grain of salt because they come from a place of pain, and continuing to do this all for over a year when it wold have been much easier to walk away at some points.

HowIsThisReal posted 1/31/2017 08:25 AM

I asked him again to take a poly and told him I'd be asking if he feels he's 100% heterosexual and again, he said he would.

I asked him how he could think he's straight if he did those things. I said maybe he's in denial.
He said he knows deep down in his bones that he's not. He said he wouldn't be trying like this if he thought he was gay/bi. He would have left when he first had the opportunity and he wouldn't be living the way we are now (with me berating him all the time almost daily) and he wouldn't be trying to win me back so hard.

Sigh. What the fuck is happening? Is this real life? One minute I think he might e in denial, one minute I think he's telling the truth.

I told him we are getting a poly with our tax refund and I'm going to ask him if he thinks he's 100% completely heterosexual with no feelings, sexual or emotional feelings towards men, and he said OK.

I want to cry, how is this my life?

[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 8:26 AM, January 31st (Tuesday)]

sisoon posted 1/31/2017 10:19 AM

HITR,

My W told me she thought the fact that she really enjoyed sex with me meant she wasn't gay. That makes sense - a (male) gay friend once told me the thought of sex with a woman just plain turned him off, and I have the same thought about my having sex with a man - 'no, just no'.

To me, once the sexuality question was answered, the next question wasn't, 'Are you 100% straight now?'

The real big question for me was, 'Are you willing to be monogamous from now on?'

IMO that is a question only time - not a poly - could answer.

So I wonder if a poly will really give you what you want.

No need to answer that for me, but it might be good to answer it for yourself. Of course, even that's not necessary - if you do the poly, and it doesn't satisfy you, you'll just have to look for another way ... but I do think that remorseful actions over a long period may be what you're really looking for and really need.

That's JMO, though.

[This message edited by sisoon at 10:30 AM, January 31st (Tuesday)]

HowIsThisReal posted 1/31/2017 11:41 AM

I talk about a poly but honestly the more I think about it, I don't know if it would satisfy me, I'd likely just wonder if he tricked it somehow or if it was faulty.

It's just that I feel like I don't even know who he is. He's NEVER given me any reason to think he is bi. Never. And if he IS bi, well having a bisexual husband just seems...I don't know. Not what I planned. It takes something away from our M, something I can't quite put my finger on yet.

Of course I wouldn't ask him if he's 100% straight NOW, I know sexual orientation doesn't change.
It's like I still want to believe that he's always been 100% straight and him being with these men was some sort of spiral into addiction, but not full blown SA because that's too hard to come back from. I know, I know, I'm asking too much out of the situation.

I just feel like I've been the star of The Truman Show this whole time. I've been duped into thinking we had a great, romantic love story when clearly we didn't.

[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 11:52 AM, January 31st (Tuesday)]

Trippd posted 1/31/2017 21:49 PM

I'm sorry but "he wouldn't be trying to win you back so hard if he was gay/bi"??? I understand if he was gay. But you knew from the start he wasn't gay the question was if he was bi. If he was bi he wouldbt be trying as hard to win you back? That's crap. And that really pissed me off when I read it. How could he say that to you? Like wth? If he had a seriously troubling midlife realization about his sexuality hes not going to try to win his wife's heart back and fix the broken heart he shattered? ...what the hell?
And honestly, if his 7-10 years of seriously awful infidelity did not "take something away from the M" then I highly doubt him being bi would. Especially not more than his horribly unscrupulous acts would have by now.

I agree with sisoon. I'm not sure that the poly would give you the results you're searching for. As I understand it we are all just searching for answers, and as you say it, he is more than willing to be 100% honest with you and give you all the answers he can. But I also totally get where you're coming from.
You thought you knew this man and you find out this other side of him resembles someone you never would have batted an eyelash at. You find out this man has been cheating on you for a decade and lying to you left and right all the while compartmentalizing all of it and being the ideal husband while he's with you. How could the man you fell in love with do this? You have such a right to be hesitant on believing what he says and you have such a reason to doubt everything.
I don't mean to be harsh or evil. And maybe you already know all of this. I guess I'm in that kind of mood where I feel like being brutally honest about what I think. And I may be wrong.
I wish you all the love and support you can find and I hope you don't take the above wrong.

[This message edited by Trippd at 9:50 PM, January 31st (Tuesday)]

HowIsThisReal posted 1/31/2017 22:08 PM

I'm sorry but "he wouldn't be trying to win you back so hard if he was gay/bi"??? I understand if he was gay.

Honestly I hyper-focus on the gay thing, so when we talk about this stuff I almost always say gay, not bi. So his response was more geared towards that. If he was gay he wouldn't put us both through this pain, he would have taken the opportunity to end the M when I left for a week or he would have accepted it when I told him we were done. He wouldn't be fighting so hard if he thought he was gay.

He still says he's not bi either, but who the fuck knows. He says now, with a clearer head, the thought of sex with a man is repulsive to him and he is ashamed and disgusted that he ever even spiraled into such things. He has no fond memories of any of it, it's all dirty and shameful in his mind now.
I sometimes have thoughts of testing him on this admission, by putting on gay porn and holding his dick to see if it gets hard. I know, I know, that's fucked up isn't it? Who knew infidelity could mess up a person's mind so much.

If his 7-10 years of seriously awful infidelity did not "take something away from the M...

7 years, I'm already ashamed of the length of time, don't any more to it! lol! And of course it took something away from the M. Our M will never be the same even if we successfully R. D will likely never be completely off the table, and that's sad to me. As with any BS who's trying to R, I will always know what he's capable of, and I will always know that he participated in such deviant, disgusting behavior.

So much for our fucking fairy tale love story that I thought we had.

You thought you knew this man and you find out this other side of him resembles someone you never would have batted an eyelash at.

Yes! I'm in no way homophobic, seriously. But I don't think I would have dated a bisexual man. I'm just not that self confident, to where I would know he'd be checking out anyone, any gender, and feel secure enough to be ok with that.

while compartmentalizing all of it and being the ideal husband while he's with you

And some days I don't know if that makes things easier or harder. It's easier some days to want to save the M because it was great most of the time, even during his infidelity.
It is harder because if it ever comes down to D, I'll be losing something that was once amazing, and it'll hurt, and it'll be lonely, and I'll be left to mourn mostly good memories of our life together... wheres the fairness in that? If it ever comes to D, I almost would rather be able to say our M was always stressful and strained, and then maybe D would feel/seem like a relief.

You have such a right to be hesitant on believing what he says and you have such a reason to doubt everything.

I said basically the same exact thing to him when we talked this morning. His actions over the last year+ have been positive & consistent, and I'm grateful for that, it's the ONLY reason I've come this far, but in no way would I just blindly believe everything he says. He has a long road ahead of him still at this point.

[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 11:01 PM, January 31st (Tuesday)]

HowIsThisReal posted 2/1/2017 09:00 AM

Here's another question, was anyone's WS diagnosed with bipolar? My FWH has been told by his previous med management psych, and by his new IC that it's possible he's bipolar with hedonistic tendencies. He hasn't gotten an "official diagnosis" yet though since we moved out of state and had to start all over with new health care providers 7 months after D-Day.
We both discard the thought, because he doesn't seem to fit the profile in other ways. He's never been manic like we have seen in severely bipolar people (his sister is diagnosed bipolar since she was young, and was in and out of mental wards when she was a teenager, she's been under control with meds as an adult).

I just do the know how much weight to give this (almost) diagnosis, we've kicked it to the side since the first psych brought it up back in early 2016, though he was put on Latuda for it, and continues to take it. I just feel like we would have noticed other traits. To me it just feels like another excuse, but maybe anything would feel like an excuse at this point.

[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 9:01 AM, February 1st (Wednesday)]

Ifeelalone posted 2/1/2017 11:21 AM

HITR, while the same sex encounters really through me for a loop at first, I don't seem to dwell on them as much as the entire package- for me, I know it's just a symptom/result of how out of control the entire thing became.

I did look him straight in the eyes and ask him to soul search and make sure he was not homosexual. I told him I have many gay friends that I love more than life itself, and he needs to be true to himself-- he only gets one life to live, and he needs to make it an honest and admiral one in the future. We would figure it out together if he was gay, that is an entirely different ballgame.... But he is not gay, so now I know he's just mentally ill (addict).

I can feel your heart palpitations as I read your writings. My WS brother is bipolar and lowly functioning in society- actually I think everyone in his FOO has mental disease (even if undiagnosed)- I don't have a label for him, and I think I'm ok with that... But there is something wrong with the way his brain works to have such a dichotomous and compartmentalized life style. He has embraced that he has some degree of mental illness.

I'm still very angry that he risked my life and our children's for his acting out. I'm not sure i can get over this. I'm trying to learn to accept that this has happened- sometimes I have to stop trying to make sense out of it- it's just fucking crazy.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is I believe that my husband is mentally ill- even if there isn't a technical diagnosis- also, there is no magic diagnosis or pull that can take away my now traumatized life. I only get one life too- and I'll be damned if he gets to ruin it forever.

sisoon posted 2/1/2017 13:35 PM

HITR,

IDK ... I notice women. I see something really attractive in somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 of the women who come into my field of vision. It was after our wedding that I really started to notice them. My W didn't even start to worry until she hit her mid-50s.

Then she accepted my truth - that younger women had advantages in looks, but she had many more advantages in the length of our M and in the character that showed in her face. (That meant she started worrying for real after d-day - but now I don't notice so much, since almost everyone looks like a kid to me. )

If I checked out both women and men, I think she'd be at peace - the fact is, I'm faithful, even though there are so many attractive people around (and even though I tend to notice the women, not the men.)

So I don't understand why the possibility that your H is bi-sexual is so uncomfortable to you - there's so much opportunity to be unfaithful even for straight people! I'm not arguing - I just don't understand. You're under no obligation to help me with this, BTW.

Wouldn't you rather be with a faithful bi than an unfaithful straight? I sure would.

Having said that, the way you report your H's talk about cheating with men makes me wonder if he 'protests too much.' Just wondering - you know him better than I do.

Also, even if you come to accept bisexuality as I do, being betrayed is horrendous. Is it possible that you focus on the sexuality issue as a way of insulating yourself from the pain of being betrayed? (Again, that's just a question, not even a suggestion.)

There IS a history of straight men having sex with men under at least 3 conditions I can think of. First, British (and perhaps North American) boarding schools were scenes of sexual exploitation of younger and/or weaker students by older and/or stronger ones. Second, navies saw enough sex between sailors - young men with raging hormones far from shore for long periods - to make the penalties very severe. Third, prisons.

Depending on the messages your H sent to himself, it's possible he's straight, even though he chose to cheat with men.

Finally, I believe good science is telling us that sexuality is a spectrum from straight to gay through bisexuality, and pan-sexuality and low sex drive fit in there somehow.

Given our fear of homosexuality, it's reasonable to think men who have slight bi tendencies might choose to make themselves totally straight - I consider myself totally straight, but if Paul Newman came on to me, what would I have done?

(PN doesn't turn me on, but I wish I looked like him - I think that may say something about my sexuality.... )

Anyway, keep posting, HITR. You raise questions that are meaningful to many people, not just to yourself.

[This message edited by sisoon at 1:39 PM, February 1st (Wednesday)]

HowIsThisReal posted 2/1/2017 13:45 PM

Having said that, the way you report your H's talk about cheating with men makes me wonder if he 'protests too much.' Just wondering - you know better than I.

He doesn't really bring it up unless I ask him about it and he just says no, he's not gay, he's soul searched, and he just knows he's not.
I don't think he protests it "too much" like he's overcompensating for it. Maybe I make it seem that way on here because my posts are so frantic sometimes. I've been having a really hard time for about 2 weeks now and I know my posts are sporadic sometimes.
He says he doesn't even really think about the gay thing, unless I bring it up.

I hyper-focus on it sometimes, although oddly enough, most of my triggers are from attractive women and wondering if he's thinking about what he'd do to them, or they bring on mind movies where I see him having sex with attractive women. I almost NEVER wonder if he's "checking out" men in that way.

So how's that for confusing? lol.

I don't know why either, so I couldn't tell you WHY I'm so uncomfortable with it. I am so NOT homophobic.

And hell I've seen F-on-F porn and wasn't grossed out by it. Sometimes it was enjoyable even.
But I do not consider myself bisexual...Like at all, in the least bit.

The thought of actually DOING any of it repulses me, and the thought of having any kind of relationship with a woman doesn't repulse me, doesn't excite me, doesn't make me feel anything. And actually a lesbian friend of mine just found out her GF of almost 9 years cheated and my heart is breaking for her because I know her pain.

Aren't I just one giant, conflicting, hot mess? I'm so fucked.

[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 2:16 PM, February 1st (Wednesday)]

HowIsThisReal posted 2/1/2017 14:17 PM

Honestly I think I'm mainly afraid of being duped again, put all this effort into R and find out years down he line that he's just been closeted this whole time. I don't believe, in my gut, that he's gay, but I also didn't believe in my gut, that he would cheat on me. So maybe I'm just trying frantically to make sense of all of this. And I know logically there's no sense to be made of it.

[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 2:39 PM, February 1st (Wednesday)]

Ifeelalone posted 2/1/2017 15:20 PM

I vacillate moment by moment on whether I want to be with someone who would have such complete disregard for me. Ultimately, I decided that I want to see my children everyday- so I am giving him a chance to be a decent human being. 2. Given my tract record in men I would likely pick another big loser- and despite all the shit he did, he is generally a nice, sweet man who loves his children too. I'm ok if he relapses in the future- that will be a bitter pill to swallow, but I'm not going to live in fear everyday of something I have no control over.

That being said, I will not tolerate any acting out- if he messes up once I am gone- and I started working part time in my field so that I can walk away. I have my own friends and my own way to support myself-- so I don't need him for practical stuff... It gives me independence and confidence. Can you try to find something just for you? Even if it's just exercise?

Thinking about you all lots.

Trippd posted 2/1/2017 17:03 PM

HITR, why have the last 2 weeks been so hard? Aside from the understandable confusion.

Also, I would say you are totally not one giant conflicting mess. Or maybe we all are. Either way you are entitled to your opinions and feelings about certain things. It's totally ok to love some people who are gay and have no bias but also never want to date one.

HowIsThisReal posted 2/1/2017 19:45 PM

I go through phases where I'm ok and I go through phases where I am pissed and wonder how this is my life, and I get overwhelmed and upset and depressed. I've been in and out of depression this whole year and am on Wellbutrin but I still "go dark" sometimes. It's not even just the infidelity alone, it's the whole course our life has taken since d-day, we moved to be closer to my support system, but we hate the area. It'll be a few years before we can sell this fixer upper and move again, so I feel trapped here sometimes.

I started therapy a few weeks ago and that may have stirred up some feelings that I was pushing down, or it might just be one of the downs of the roller coaster.

I actually started feeling better today, woke up this morning feeling good, then my therapy session was decent. She thinks we have what it takes to make it, she thinks the love is definitely there. I can once again, today, see some kind of a happy future with FWH (for now, likely until the roller coaster takes me back down). We drove through a neighborhood looking at houses today, we hope to buy in a year or 2.

I think I've just been frantically trying to explain or make sense of this all. Like what does it MEAN that he cheated? what does it MEAN that he was with men? And I think I just need to step back and take a breath and stop trying to make sense of EVERYTHING for a minute.

[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 8:35 AM, February 2nd (Thursday)]

sisoon posted 2/2/2017 17:40 PM

Honestly I think I'm mainly afraid of being duped again, put all this effort into R and find out years down he line that he's just been closeted this whole time. I don't believe, in my gut, that he's gay, but I also didn't believe in my gut, that he would cheat on me.

Ah. I think I understand. You're 14-15 months out, and that just isn't enough time to have confidence that R is real.

I don't know how it will turn out for you and your H, but I do know it's too early to know. Have some faith in yourself to make the right decision.

dreamlife posted 2/2/2017 18:35 PM

My now deceased XH used women as "cover" including me.

HowIsThisReal posted 2/2/2017 21:55 PM

Thanks sisoon, yeah 14/15 months isn't that far. And it's funny because when I first committed to R, I dreamed of being over a year out.

My now deceased XH used women as "cover" including me.

See that's what scares me is that it happens. I talked to my therapist about it but she says there are usually other signs in that case, that are either overlooked or not noticed. FWH hasn't exhibited any of those signs, and neither therapist had picked up that kind of sign from him, but it's one of those things that no one but my FWH himself knows for sure.

HowIsThisReal posted 2/10/2017 12:40 PM

How's everyone doing? I think many of us have started also posting in emotionless infidelity, but I don't want to leave anyone in here feeling like they're without support.

I'm in a phase right now where the fact that he was with men isn't bothering me as much as just the infidelity in general. The more I talk to my IC, the more I don't think he's gay/bi. She has counseled people who have come out as bi/gay and she's counseled people who, like my FWH have had emotionless sex with men.
She can give me examples or questions to answer and then point out how, if he were, my answer would likely be different. Obviously she can only tell me what she thinks according to her education/area of expertise, and according to other people she's treated, but it's helpful.

It's a step forward, considering I was SO hung up on it last time I posted in here. I guess that's part of the ups and downs of the roller-coaster.

Hopefully everyone is having a decent Friday today.

[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 12:47 PM, February 10th (Friday)]

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