SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I posted this on Reddit and got a few constructive comments, but mostly lots of vitriol (which I understand). I am hoping to get a more productive exchange here.

I have thought about this post for a long-time and am still having trouble composing it. Me typing this is the first time I have communicated about this. I am a long-time reader of this and other forums and that has helped me process my thoughts and emotions, but as you will read I am a mess and am looking for feedback from people who have real experiences on both sides of infidelity. I will try to keep this concise, but just getting this out has created a swirl of emotions that is pretty overwhelming.

I (early 50sM) and my wife (early 50sF) have been married over 30 years and have two adult children. Obviously we married relatively young. Almost 20 years ago I had an EA and PA with a co-worker (started when we were colleagues, but I switched jobs shortly after the affair started) and it lasted on and off (often would break for weeks / months due to work pressure, higher priorities, me losing interest and being afraid to break it off, etc) for approximately four years. My wife and I had been married for approximately seven years when it started. In retrospect, I am pretty sure my wife knows, but we have never discussed it. I realize that may seem crazy to many of you, but would be consistent with our relationship dynamics. My parents divorced when I was ten and I was a pretty wild kid (drinking, drugs, sex, etc.). I eventually settled down, but never really processed trauma from my childhood. Ultimately I got my shit together and went to college where I met my wife. She knows about some of my past, but we never really discussed body count. I was definitely her first (both sexually and real relationship) and in a way I think I often feel less than because I have way more baggage. We dated for only a year before marrying, had our first child three years after we married, and our second five years after that. We moved 2500 miles away when our first was almost two so I could attend graduate school and moved to our current area shortly before our second was born. For those who are doing the math the affair started shortly after the second child was born.

From the outside our marriage has always looked "perfect". My wife sacrificed her career to be a SAHM (her choice that I supported) as my profession had a much higher earnings potential. My career required working long hours for the first several years (still does at times), but has afforded us a very good life financially. In many ways my wife is a perfect complement to me. In some ways we are opposites in ways that are not complementary. I have always been more emotional even for minor things (e.g. crying during movies). I can count on one hand the times I have seen my wife cry including our wedding, childbirth, funerals, etc. The lack of emotion has always been hard when it comes to our relationship as I often interpret it (or used to) as apathy because I am wired so differently. From the start she has never criticized, been angry, shown hurt, etc. and does not talk about her feelings. I am not exaggerating when I say that we have never had a real argument / fight. She had a pretty idyllic upbringing and I have wondered if the lack of really hard times afforded fewer opportunities to verbalize feelings. My troubled youth is likely partially because I had I lot of anger towards my dad, tough blended family dynamics, financial stress, etc. I did not always process my feeling well growing up, but was over communicative and emotional.

The early years of marriage were hard for me and looking back I realize how young and immature I / we were. I would have strongly discouraged my kids if they were contemplating marriage at the same age I did, but at the time it seemed like the logical next step. I could never reconcile the lack of emotion with her being seemingly happy in our marriage and constantly wondered if the love she felt was just superficial, does she find me attractive or am I just a good catch as a provider, would she love all of me if she knew everything about me, etc. Compared to now, it is easy to say how bad our intimacy was initially, but in the early years I was not sure if it is because she was simply not attracted to me, if she was not comfortable with her own body (she was raised in a conservative religious family where pre-marital sex was a big no no), or if we were just sexually incompatible. Eventually I think I convinced myself that my wife was content in our marriage without the same emotions and attraction that I was feeling. We were starting to do very well financially and she was very involved as a mother. We were great at sharing parental duties and focused on the kids 100% with neither of us put any effort into our marriage. I think if you asked her she would have said everything was fine and she did not think we needed to work on anything. I had difficulty being vulnerable enough to communicate my needs so just fell into a day-to-day routine that looked great from the outside, but felt very hollow inside me. To be very clear, this is 100% on me and I only mention it for context and not as an excuse. I needed to communicate even if it was hard and instead I gradually buried my emotions.

From reading many of your experiences, I know how frustrating the "I cannot remember" answer is so I am trying to provide as much details about the affair as possible. If my wife wants to know I would spend as much time as needed to reconstruct & research to answer any questions she has. Trying to understand what I was thinking is difficult for me. I am not sure if I really thought having a fulfilling marriage that included emotional and physically intimacy was impossible or if I just convinced myself of that so I could be a cake eater. I remember thinking that we would divorce after the kids were through college and convinced myself that would be best for both of us as my wife would be set financially and could pursue someone she had strong emotions for.

My parents divorced due to my dad's infidelity and my relationship with him was always strained. How I ended up doing the same is one reason I have spent the last 20 years in my own personal hell. I think it took a few years for me to actually feel any emotions in my marriage again after the affair ran its course (nothing dramatic happened to end it as we both realized it was going nowhere). With work demands and being super involved with our kids, I think I was able to compartmentalize for a while as I do not remember being as tortured as I am now.

About ten years ago I took a couple years off so I could be at home with our youngest before they went to college and I started spending every day with my wife. I started working again right before the pandemic, but was remote (even before Covid) so have continued to be with my wife 24/7 most days. We have been empty nesters for the last six years and being together that much without kids as the focal point has dramatically changed me. I cannot pinpoint when and have difficulty describing this other than to say that I have fallen madly in love with my wife. I would say fallen madly in love with my wife "again", but the feelings I have are not at all comparable to what I felt when we first married. I think my wife would say she has always loved me. We still do not have any emotional talks (i.e. no arguments, no passion, etc.) and I have accepted that is just how she is wired.

With that context, I am slowly dying inside due to the guilt, shame, self-loathing, etc. and do not think it is "fixable". During the affair I had significant substance abuse that I hid from my wife (pretty sure this is an effort to numb the shame and guilt). Without getting too specific, the industry I work is rampant with functioning addicts. Similar to the affair I am pretty sure my wife knows there were substance issues, but it did not disrupt our lives so was out-of-sight / out-of-mind. I did out-patient recovery and have been on buprenorphine for the last 15 years, which has helped me not relapse. In lieu of harder drugs, I use edibles pretty regularly especially when I am spiraling. I try to over-compensate by providing financially, adopting her interests so we have more in common especially now that the kids are adults, not burdening her when I am feeling depressed, etc.; however, I do not want our relationship to be performative for the rest of our lives.

The fundamental question I have is how to move forward. I am totally open to both IC and MC, but question the efficacy if we are not addressing the elephant in the room. I do not know if my wife wants to (if she knows) or would want to (if she does not know) discuss the affair. I would do anything / everything as part of a reconciliation process and understand she may decide that is not something she wants. Absent a time machine I do not think I can find any internal peace and what I want is irrelevant. I do not have the words to describe how grateful I would be in a world where my wife wants to reconcile, but even if she were to honestly say she forgives, I will never be able to forgive myself. I feel guilty even thinking about what I would want from the process, but have difficulty envisioning a time where I do not think about the pain I caused even if my wife were to forgive me. I have always viewed my role as a provider and protector and not only did I not protect my wife, but I am the person she needed protection from.

I want a solution, but the best I can hope for is a chance to build something new with my wife. I would be all in to do that, but I am not sure how without putting everything on the table. My feelings are secondary, but the scariest thing about this mess I created is if my wife knows and does not care. We are two very different people than we were 20-30 years ago, but she still never talks about her feelings. If our situations were reversed I would have forced the discussion the minute I thought she was having an affair. The thought of her with someone else would break me so her never raising the issue makes me think she either does not know (lots of reasons I think this is unlikely), wants to rug sweep without a discussion because we have a very comfortable life that is perfect from the outside looking in, or she does not have feelings for me. The last point has worried me since long before the affair and her emotions towards me do not seem to have changed. With the benefit of hindsight and maturity I hate myself for not asking for counseling early in our marriage. I thought about it, but on the rare occasions where I tried to ask about what she thought of our marriage, how she felt towards me, etc. it was always "everything is great".

Maybe having the life we have (financially independent, kids are doing great, no arguments, etc) is enough for her and if so does forcing a discussion about this affair trigger hurt. I cannot do anything about the last 30 years, but would do anything to make the next 30+ years the best they can be. At its core, I worry that she cannot or will not love me when she knows everything about me especially because I feel only hate for myself.

I realize this is long and not very logically structured. That is a reflection of me not able to make sense of what I have done and what I should do. If I had a crystal ball and could see that the best thing for her is status quo I would do that. On almost every dimension she would likely say our relationship seems to be better than ever. Probably lots to do with just maturity and experience, but our intimacy is so much better physically than it was many years ago; however, I often get in my head because of the guilt / shame and it results in us being way less frequent than she would like. I have noticed a pattern where I go to my office under the guise of working after we have great sex and I cry because it triggers overwhelming feelings of guilt. It feels like our intimacy is 95% physical and lacks a deep emotional connection. We talk more than we ever had, but outside of talking about our adult kids the conversations are superficial. I am considering retiring and although we are "together" 24/7 right now that will mean an extra 10-12 hours each day that needs to be filled by something other than my work.

Looking for any advice from BPs and Waywards.

That’s quite complicated. A lot to sort through so I am just going to throw out some initial questions and reactions.

So why do you think she knows about the affair?
You have been taking a drug to treat your past drug problem for 15 years? And she doesn’t know? That’s not judgment, that’s just seeking clarification.

So, my husband and I have a bit of the dynamic where I am more emotional but he really can’t tell you about his feelings. He has preferences of course but beyond that he is a bit of an enigma to himself. He does try and express himself but the depth of it he is not capable. He grew up in a stable home and I never met his father but his mother was nice but quiet and emotionally reserved. His sister has said they never talked about feelings growing up.

I on the other hand grew up in chaos much like yourself. In therapy I mixed feelings of chaos with love and they felt similar to me. So your interpretation of your wife’s love may really be skewed.

Another thing that is likely skewing it is you are filled with shame and guilt. This blocks your ability to love yourself. Okay, same here. What I learned is when we carry that shame around with all our lack of self worth it’s sometimes difficult to receive the love you are being given. You overlook it because you will steer towards looking for evidence of the lack of it.

Now, the place I think you are now, setting those things aside is that you feel very lonely because you can not have emotional conversations with her. And even lonelier due to carrying these huge secrets around.

My husband has not gotten much better at describing his emotions since finding out about my affair. I have gotten better at understanding and expressing mine and talking about my inner world more. He is more of a straightforward person who is more likely thinking about hobbies, work, solving this or planning that than having any thing emotional to share with me. But I feel closer for saying the things I am feeling and thinking. We don’t have to have the same need.

Also, I will talk to one of my daughters or girlfriends if I want someone to identify with what I feel. However, he is always there to listen to how I feel and often that’s all I need- a sounding board.

If it’s the knowing her more deeply, you may already know her, her inner world is not as complicated as yours because she doesn’t have a lot of emotional baggage. No past relationships , no problems in her family of origin. No abuse.

What happens to us is we get trained young to be very aware of mood swings or changes in emotional climate because it kept us safe. We become kind of isolated and become very in our heads about managing our feelings and their feelings and all sorts of things.

When you don’t get trained to do that, I think you more often are doing what my husband is doing- using his creativity in a different way. Whereas we are over here using our creativity on ruminations, feelings, narratives.

And those things are the most unreliable things to believe in.

It’s not that I don’t think feelings are important, I just think sometimes we spin these narratives and those thoughts are what creates those feelings. Things that you assume or fill in blanks for or derive from clues, they are not necessity true. They lead to emotional reactions.

You say you are madly in love with your wife. Yet you say that her sharing her inner world doesn’t happen which to me would make her unknown to you. If that were true I would ask you the. What are you madly in love with then? There are only a few things left: you love her superficially and just have an attachment to her, you love how she makes you feel, you love what she does for you.

Would you just say you just like being around her? She gives you good intellectual conversation? Wouod your expectation be that she meets all your possible needs?

I would like you to think about that conflicting part of your narrative. I don’t have any idea of the answers and have a feeling I will have more questions.

In the meantime I would take the step to go to therapy to start. Then decide on MC.

I normally would be all over you to confess. And likely I will advise it. I am just hesitant because I feel like your wanting to confess is a bit of a fantasy of how you might finally feel unburdened. But I would like you to know that will not ease your shame or guilt. You will still feel that regardless. And it’s always going to be a lonely feeling. I went to therapy for a couple months before confessing and I feel glad I did.

What I would like to see is if you confess you have talked everything through in order to be better prepared with timeline, purpose, a better set of expectations of the aftermath.

I hear in there also you want to build fresh with her, something new. You do not want a performative marriage. Yet you report being madly in love and having great sex together. That is not a performative marriage. I think your shame and loneliness has created a narrative that you need to test out a little better.

And combined with how you answer my first question, I may have a different opinion than I normally would on the confession piece. If she does know and hasn’t asked and you two are happy, you are faithful and honest about everything else, there are people here that would say why traumatize her now? It takes 2-5 years to heal from it. It’s not that I don’t think she shouldn’t have agency, it’s more if she didn’t want to acknowledge it then I am not sure I would force her to do something more with it.

But I think your story you say to yourself is unreliable because your perceptions are so engrained and likely skewed.

Welcome to SI. I commend you on your bravery in writing all that out and starting on the journey.

Your story is complex. I’m going to take a different approach than my friend, hikingout, and start with encouraging you to ground on a fundamental principle:

Truth and honesty are good and necessary.

For your wife, that means she should be told in clear words.

For you, that means honoring that you also have emotional needs that are valid.

You have a lot to unpack, and it will take time. But for all the back and forth and swirl in your opening post, I would recommend that you ground yourself in a commitment to honesty and vulnerability.

I wish you all the best.

responding to the excellent questions from Hikingout:

Why do I think she knows about the affair? - the affair lasted four years and I was pretty sloppy (in retrospect I often wonder if I wanted to get caught to both get it out in the open and force a discussion on what I was experiencing in the marriage). I remember one time my wife opened a parking ticket that came in the mail and the address was the AP at 2:30 AM when I was supposed to be at work. She asked about it and I made up a totally unbelievable lie and still remember the look of disbelief (think of the look a parent gives a child when they are obviously lying). Intimacy was pretty limited so nothing really changed during the affair, but we slept in the same bed and although me coming home from work late (often after midnight) was not atypical I am sure the smells and mannerisms were off enough to know something was wrong.

Substances - the medication I take now (buprenorphine) is a maintenance drug to help prevent cravings. It has no real side-effects that would be obvious and is prescribed by a physician in connection with outpatient therapy. She would not think it is anything other than advil. That said, several years ago I started to leave the prescription out and I think in retrospect I was trying to see if she would ask about it. I have played out the affair conversation in my head so many times and I one version was her asking me about the buperenorphine and me disclosing everything including the affair. I use edibles now (which I realize most do not consider being sober, but we call this California sober where I live) especially when I start spiraling. Often it is the only way I can be intimate as that is one of my biggest triggers.

Feelings for my wife - your questions are on point and I am not going to do well trying to describe this. I remember around 10 years ago (so 10+ years after the affair ended) realizing how much I have taken her for granted. One of my coping mechanisms was to ensure my family was financially secure and I mistakenly thought me sacrificing my life / free time to do that meant I was contributing way more to the family than she was. I also did all of the housework except the laundry (again probably somewhat coping with guilt). As our children got older and as I matured I realized everything I was doing was easy relative to her raising our kids. Just thinking about her doing that largely with minimal help from me and never complaining, being 100% supportive of any career moves I made, etc. brings a wave of shame for any time I thought I was carrying the load. If she does know about the affair she held things together under that duress for the sake of our family. I think my tremendous admiration for her was the first emotion that really triggered me to revisit how I was thinking about her and our marriage. For a while post affair I thought we would just divorce once the kids were adults, but I started to see her as a very different person than I remembered. We had intimacy issues early in the marriage largely because we were so young and inexperienced (I was "experienced", but teenage sex is really not the best training for intimacy in marriage). She was not willing / able to communicate her needs (not uncommon for someone raised in a religious family that has never had sex before marriage) and sex for me was hard because I could tell she was not having orgasms. As she got older I think she started to feel more comfortable with her own body and she was started to communicate what worked for her and what did not. I often wonder how much different things would have been if we had been mature enough early in our marriage to have these discussions as this was one of the initial draws of the AP. My wife and I have way more shared interests now. I have come to the realization that my perception of her being "emotionless" is not personal, but just how she is. I feel like with MC we could be so much closer, but do not see how we do MC without discussing the elephant in the room. I realize I am not explaining this well (verbalizing what love feels like has always been hard for me) and my intense feelings for my wife are complicated with a mix of guilt, remorse, admiration, desire, etc., but I feel what I think is a intense love. Part of the reason I think I need IC is to help untangle this mess and understand my emotions better.

Feelings about myself - one reason I am solely focused on the impact disclosure would have on my wife is that I am very pessimistic that disclosing will have any impact on how I feel about myself. She could tell me she knows, forgave me years ago, and wants to build a new and wonderful life together and I will still spend time every day hating myself for the affair. I used to fantasize about a time machine to go back and tell myself how much I will regret the affair, but even if a time machine existed it would not change the choices I made. I am 20+ years past the affair and experience the feelings of shame and guilt every day. I can honestly say I have not been tempted once in that time period and that has not done anything to lessen the shame and guilt.

My main issue is that I do not want to risk my wife's mental health. I have played out scenarios if I disclose in my head so many times and if I had a crystal ball and could see that my wife would be better off with me disclosing I am fine with any consequences. I would be heartbroken if she wanted to divorce and it would crush me to have to explain to my kids and family why, but that would be a small price to pay if she would be better off in the long run without me. If she knows and has decided that she does not want to discuss it (as I suspect) I worry me forcing the issue would result in her having to deal with emotions that she has elected to ignore. I can continue living with status quo, but think we could have a much stronger marriage if we went to MC and could talk to each other on a much more intimate level. I feel like I have to hide myself and that she avoids talking about all of the deep stuff so we have plateaued in our relationship. I want to be vulnerable with her and have her be vulnerable with me, but she was not like that before and if she knows about the affair I am not sure how she will ever feel safe doing that.

Sorry for the discombobulation. I am thinking I really should start IC with a betrayal specialist to help sort through these issues, but think people who have experienced infidelity (both the betrayed and the wayward) are uniquely qualified to provide a real-life perspective.

Since you mentioned it was so long ago and you’re having difficulty remembering everything, I would get ahead of this and start writing as detailed a timeline as you can. That way you can really delve into it and get everything out before it becomes a situation where she knows, but later on you have to say, "but wait! There’s more!" Like some damned coked out infomercial salesman we all know. At the very least, having that ready shows a measure of you being transparent with your wife.

Okay I heard a lot of good answers here:

-your primary reason for confessing is you desire to have a deeper relationship with your wife.
-you do not think it will necessarily unburden you.
- you understand one of your justifications was entitlement. I think that for every affair that has been had the ws is always going to be able to point at some deeper sacrifice they feel they made that meant they deserved to do what ever they wanted.

-You say you fear she will not feel safe being vulnerable once you confess. You say that this lack of vulnerability or emotional sharing is not who she is. What if it never is? What if you knew for a fact she would stay the same in not being able to share that part of herself in either scenario?

Do you fear more that she won’t be emotional or that she will be? Is one scenario worse than the other in you imagination?

I think it’s important to focus more on your side of the street in a confession. You seem to be willing to lose the marriage in order to save it. Meaning, you accept divorce is a viable outcome and feel strongly enough that you want to restore your integrity. It seems you understand she could be avoidant of wanting to discuss it or she could be very hurt, traumatized or upset.

My husband handles things very much like you describe your wife. I was sloppy, it was evident I wasn’t myself. I was saying things that all but told him I was having an affair. However, he never asked. Once we were at the gym and I got a text from the ap, he raced over to see if he could see my screen. Another time I got in the car with him unexpectedly when he was taking to a mutual friend and for some reason that friend was talking about how women cheat for emotional reasons.

I was utterly convinced he knew. He was completely blindsided. I think you have created an assumption based on how you think. But there is a huge possibility that she simply gave you the benefit of the doubt because she trusted you. Gave you a look of warning m, you didn’t give her any other answer so she went on about her day. The fact she was a SAHM I can see also that maybe she wasn’t willing to risk losing her ability to do that or wanted to keep her family together. These are all answers that even if you had them prior to confessing it doesn’t sound like it would sway you.

At the end of the day, my values are what ink stated. Honesty and truth are better. I don’t know if your perceived emotional needs are valid or not, only because like I have said when you look at things through the lens of guilt or shame you sort of miss a lot of love signals. And I don’t think you would feel madly in love with her if you didn’t have at least some forms of emotional intimacy. I tend to think of us ws as having a void that is hard to fill. I don’t read it in what you wrote though, and I am entirely on board with believing you want to have something deeper.

I would stick with my initial advice, prepare a timeline, get in touch with what is true and what isn’t, and try and find the answers as to why you did this. Entitlement is a good start, but there are more things. If you have clarity your confession will go better and I feel that you are probably right to have a few sessions with a betrayal specialist that can help you prepare for the confession itself as well as the aftermath.

It sound like you have thought this through, and living you values is a good step. In my other post I was throwing spaghetti to see what would stick.

Proceed with valor.

Dear feelingverylow, oh wow, that is LOT of assumptions! You have no idea what your wife thinks! I used to do this to my husband - I was sure I knew exactly what he was thinking - and I am 99% wrong! It was so good for me to learn that the inside of his mind is really different (and much kinder actually) than the inside of my mind. You two don't know how to fight! That was also true for me, and the conflict we have now is good! (it doesn't feel that way when it's happening of course, but it is). Please tell her everything, and meet this woman you have been living with for the past few decades. She will surprise you.

FVL: You probably have it all wrong. My WS probably felt/feels the same as you. He was/is wrong. I felt and knew he was cheating. I FELT IT. I remember how very scared and lonely I was. Everyday I wondered if this was the day that he was to tell me that he found another and would be leaving me. I was so in love with him and it hurt so much. Always gone, out late all the time. He didn't talk to me or even look at me. What happened, what went wrong? There were no arguments. I remember seeing other couples happy and engaged with each other. We were not that anymore and I didn't even know why. He was abrupt, didn't compliment me, didn't hold me, kiss me, or even look at me. So sad I was. Every day was so hard. I tried to be strong, take care of myself, but he never seemed to notice me and created tensions so he had an excuse to go out again. I missed him, I missed having sex with him, I missed having every day with him. The real truth is that he was having a lot of sex with someone else and I was having no sex waiting for him. So lonely. Loving my WS has been a lonely life. Then he started to try again, but we were never the same. I suspect because of what you are expressing here now. He also blames drugs. Drugs is not a good enough reason. There is not a good enough reason. What is the real problem? And, why could you not have found a better way of dealing with those problems besides cheating on your wife! Could be that your excuses gave you your entitlement to cheat on your wife. She had a better reason to cheat - and DIDN'T. Why were you doing the drugs to begin with? Quit blaming your wife. The only thing that she did wrong was to trust and love you, so that you could betray her. She doesn't trust you enough to show you her emotions, because you have showed her that you don't care. Every day that you don't tell her the truth is another day of betrayal. Another day of lies. Another day that you show her that you don't care about her emotions, because yours are more important. She deserves the whole truth, and she deserves to make her own choices afterwards.

feelingverylow,

BS here. I have been married 44 yrs. My BH recently confessed to his A of over 43 yrs ago. The secret was killing him. I never suspected a thing. He didn't have to tell me. There was no way I ever would have found out. He took the risk that he would destroy everything we had built together but he tells me he had to come clean. He needed me to know who he was.

Our stories are very different, but betrayal and secret keeping are the same. I won't get into my side of the story, but I can tell you that his decision to cheat and hide it nearly destroyed him. I can also tell you that his confession has opened the door to deep discussions between us. I had always had a "feeling" that something was off in our relationship. He was emotionally unavailable most of the time. Angry. But having been with him since 16 I just thought that was who he was and accepted it. Now a lot of it makes sense. I can physically see a difference in him since DDday.

I wouldn't assume anything about your wife if I were you. What she knows or doesn't know. How she will react. You need to decide if you can continue on with your deceit. You can't be a good partner, offering her your whole authentic self if you're keeping secrets.

I wish you the best.

I very much appreciate the engagement on this and the real-world experiences are super helpful.

Icangetpastthis - your post wrecked me, but thank you. Some of my darkest moments are when I think of my wife knowing and suffering in silence for whatever reasons. I was envisioning my wife while reading your experience and have been sobbing / ugly crying off and on this morning (I was on a zoom call and someone asked if I had allergies because my eyes are puffy). Your comments are powerful and along with Hikingout, Pippin, and Trumansworld have convinced me that disclosure is the right path forward whether she already knows or not.

To everyone - the consensus is to disclose. That is both a relief and terrifying. I am going to start IC with a betrayal trauma specialist with the hope that the therapist can guide the disclosure timing and process. I assume that will include a plan post-disclosure depending on her response with me hoping that we will find a therapist for MC.

I have played various scenarios in my head so many times over the years and as this becomes more real my mind is spiraling. Will try to get in to IC asap before I am overwhelmed by all of the worst case scenarios that are playing over and over. I feel so selfish for thinking of what this means to me, but am terrified that this will either 1) devastate my wife which will break me knowing I am the source of the pain or 2) she has no emotional reaction which will break me for entirely different reasons.

To other waywards - how do you cope with seeing the damage we have done? I have spent years numbing myself and still have times when I go to some really dark places and that is working under the assumption my wife already knows. The prospect of the disclosure being the first time my wife learns about the betrayal and the thought of me being the person twisting the knife rather than being the person she looks to for comfort is making my physically ill. Not that it would help, but I wish she could see into my mind and know that I have spent so many years cycling through shame and regret. I am hopeful my IC will help, but can you give me any hope that the outcome of this ends in a better place than where I am now?

Although things like disclosing to my family, losing my wife (either through divorce or because she never sees me the same again), and looking introspectively at the many ugly things that I hate about myself are terrifying; however, the prospects of those happening really pales in comparison to seeing the full impact my actions will have on my wife. I have tried to overcompensate by providing the life we have, but that seems so insignificant compared to my failings as a husband. Wish I could see a path where we come out of this stronger, but the chances of that seem so remote. I have spent so much time over the last several years on forums, reading books / articles, watching videos, etc. about successful reconciliations and clinging to the hope that I would be in the minority where the marriage survives. Everything feels dark right now, but I am focused on knowing that status quo is not sustainable.

Again, I think some of this is just a narrative in your head. Many marriages survive infidelity. It’s probably more like a 50/50 proposition rather than a rare event. I have watched lots make it and thrive in this forum alone- and I started almost 8 years ago. Some I never thought they would make it and they did.

And I would say from that those that do fail a decent percentage of those are the ones where the ws wasn’t interested in being a good rebuilder, trickle truthed their spouse until there was no chance at trust.

I think you have many things in your favor towards a great shot at reconciliation, though not by far any guarantees:

-confessing on your own because you want to have a closer more intimate marriage.

-you plan to give the full truth.

- the ap is not in the picture. You are not going to defend her or take anyone’s side but your wife’s.

-you will likely be empathetic with her, willing to discuss everything and be transparent.

Also I would not assume if she doesn’t have a big reaction at first it’s because she doesn’t care or doesn’t love you. Sometimes that is just the shock. Everyone grieves differently. I asked about that only because I felt that maybe partially you wanted to see that reaction for confirmation of her feelings of closeness and love. That’s why I was super ambiguous in my first message. I wanted to hear conviction from you on what it is you are doing and why.

For many here, they will tell you they value fidelity but there are other aspects they value as well, many aren’t willing to leave the marriage because they still have so much they value.

Still you are right to see this will be traumatic. It takes years to recover and reconcile, typically the first year being the worst. (Some report year 2 is worse)

I think you are right to seek therapy and do as good of a job for her as you can. Expect she may feel her marriage for the last 20 years has been a lie, it’s hard to reconcile the time between. There is a forum for bs here in I can relate called for those who found out years later. You might read through those threads as you prepare as it may help you anticipate how it can be made worse or better, even if that is unmeasurable and likely small.

[This message edited by hikingout at 5:38 PM, Friday, March 21st]

feelingverylow,

Hello and welcome to SI as a member. I'm a WH myself and my BW and I will soon be entering Year 6 of R.

I just wanted to encourage you to keep reading and posting here. I lurked for a long time and soaked up as much knowledge as I could while also taking big pieces of it to my IC. The combo of a good therapist and IC was a lifesaver for me.

Also, I wanted to address this:

I am going to start IC with a betrayal trauma specialist with the hope that the therapist can guide the disclosure timing and process. I assume that will include a plan post-disclosure depending on her response with me hoping that we will find a therapist for MC.

Please do not use IC as an excuse to drag your feet. I did and it was a huge disaster. I was working with mine toward self-disclosure but my conflict-avoidant personality made me find every excuse in the book to keep putting it off. Well, a former AP ended up sending an anonymous letter to my BW, outing me and causing my house of cards to come tumbling down. About the only thing I did right on DD and in the immediate days after was tell my BW everything with a complete timeline. Don't be me!

Also, MC should be something for when both of you are mostly healed. The marriage didn't cheat, you did. Don't rush into MC. My BW and I tried it in the early going and we weren't there yet. The first one was flat-out awful. The second one was better but he ended up telling us to come back when we were ready. A few years later we found exactly what we needed, and also ended up finding a great support group of wonderful people to boot.

Thank you for posting. Keep up that bravery and do the next right thing.

I found out my husband had been unfaithful 12 years ago when the AP messaged me out of spite because her marriage had finally ended
Finding out from her whilst I was at work completely blindsided me and made everything worse as I came home and collapsed and vomited in front of my teenagers so they now know too.
I would have preferred my WH to tell me in a kinder way when I was somewhere safe to process the initial trauma.

I must say, there is a part of me that would rather not know at all, HOWEVER, I have had more open and honest conversations with my husband the past 2 months than we have had our whole marriage and I feel that now it is in the open, he can finally address the reasons that led him to cheat and is therefore less likely to do it again.

Btw ...I had no idea...kids are all consuming and sometimes we really don't see what's going on because our focus is elsewhere.

FVL

I am glad that you have listened and are taking this approach. I guarantee this will devastate your wife; however I think with help from an IC your odds will be better for R.

I can tell you from the BS perspective

You confessing is important
You answering ALL questions at any time is important (do the work now to dig for all details. IDK doesn't go over well)
Always speak truth with humbleness and sincerity
Let her talk
Give her space

You have 20 yrs of married life since the A. For me it was 43. That's a lot of life your wife now has to look back on and wonder what was real and what wasn't. It's awful. But in the same breath you have history. Lots of it. Years of actions that showed loyalty and love. Trust me, it helps.

You may be surprised. Like me, your wife may have been aware of your struggles. Don't think for a minute you could keep them hidden. She might not have known why, but believe me she sensed something.

I know this is going to be really hard, but I think (regardless how it turns out) that it will be good for you and your wife. She is the love of your life. Show her the respect she deserves. Give her back her agency. Be willing to lose your M to keep it.

I often ask myself if I would have rather not known. As painful as it's been my answer is always no. The life we are now living is honest and transparent. Even if I had chosen to end it, the fact that he respected me enough to come clean meant something to me.

I wish you well.

I suggest reading the post pinned to the top of the reconciliation forum by onlytime and following It’s guidance.

Beyond regret and remorse - onlytime

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/586809/beyond-regret-and-remorse/

Looking for advice on putting together as much information as possible for the disclosure. I realize some BPs may not want to know everything and some may want to know only the bare minimum. I think my wife will be the later, but as many have pointed out I am making assumptions upon assumptions (output of 20+ years of thinking about this at least once a day). I want to be ready to answer as many questions as my wife would want to know. I have spent quite a bit of time reading "for those who found out years later" mega thread and a common theme for BPs seems to be frustration and disbelief (rightly so) when the WW is unable to provide answers or when the answers change. I get this can very often be trickle truth, but in some cases is due to the length of time that has passed. If I were a BP I would have no way of discerning the difference as my trust would be shattered.

In my case, I have no reason to trickle truth. If I did not want to disclose I could simply continue with the status quo as there is no risk of discovery. That said, I have not had any communication with the AP in 20+ years and any communication I had is long gone. That said, I can go back through my financial software to see times when I spent money on travel or meals that were with the AP to reconstruct a pretty specific timeline. The EA started 2-3 months before the PA and I know the exact date the PA started.

As I am trying to reconstruct everything, what are the primary questions I should be ready to answer? The affair covered such a long period of time and we had long stretches where we did not see each other that I will struggle with specific dates other than any trips I can determine. I will be ready to answer as many questions for as many years as she wants to ask, but preparing that disclosure will take time so want to start working on this now knowing it will be part of the IC and disclosure.

I have assumed my wife has known for so many years and the last couple days have me questioning if I have been totally mistaken. Does not change the decision to disclose, but has me way more anxious about the impact it will have on my wife.

Make two separate timelines. One with every single little detail and the other, more of an overview (when, where, how many times, etc) offer both timelines for her to choose how much she wants to know.

I agree with OhItsYou about one basic and one comprehensive timeline. She might want the basic first and later want details.

In my case, I have no reason to trickle truth.

Careful with this. Imagine you are disclosing your your wife and she says "at least you didn’t X" when that is in fact the next thing you were going to say. Or she vomits with stress halfway through and you decide you can’t bear to tell her more. I believe that your intention is full disclosure, I’m just pointing out that it’s worrisome to be arrogant ("I have no reason..") Have your internal narrative, what you say to yourself, be a little more humble: I will tell the truth even if it becomes extremely hard and I will help my wife however I can as she processes it.

I’m glad you are committing to being truthful with your wife. It’s the only way for you and her and the two of you together to be real together, and we all need that more than anything in the world. Stay courageous.

I have been researching any data points to help with my disclosure. Even before Pippin commented I realized I am underestimating the potential for topics to arise where I am going to need to find my courage to disclose. The combination of length of time since the affair and me trying to block memories for the past 20 years as a coping / defense mechanism had me thinking that the disclosure is going to be focused on start date, duration, why / how it ended, etc. (i.e. logistics). I was originally thinking that my wife would infer most of the details based on the length of the affair; however, I started to make a list of things I would ask if the situation was reversed and had to stop after 30 minutes as I was physically and emotionally exhausted and terrified of having to look at my wife and provide answers to these questions.

Although I would want to know things like the timeline, my list had lots of questions about the depth of the relationship, what was said about my wife, what did the AP think the end game was, who initiated, etc. Getting into questions about the physical aspects of the relationship is triggering lots of anxiety. I keep thinking about me being the source of what will likely be the most traumatic event in my wife's life. I have this vision of the initial disclosure being akin to me stabbing her in the stomach and each question is another turn of the knife that will inflict more damage. I am definitely going to need to work with a professional to help me with this process. I am not even a fraction of the way into researching the data I have to help with the disclosure and already started thinking that status quo may be the best option. I know it is not, but started rationalizing all the reasons why not disclosing would be "best for my wife".

I am hopeful that someone who specializes in betrayals will help me work through my memories. I view things so differently now than I did during the affair fog and immediate aftermath, but when I was making my list of questions I would want the often centered on what was I thinking in the moment. Depending on the level of granularity my wife wants, I am worried that my answers will seem disingenuous because I am answering them with the benefit of hindsight.

I have been thinking about this for so long, but am quickly realizing the way I envisioned the disclosure is likely a idealized version based on the assumptions that my wife already knows and that she will not want to know details beyond the timeline. I need to prepare as if my wife does not know and as if she will want the same details I would want. The reality of potentially having to answer some of the questions I would have is horrifying. I am going down this path and am committed to not making the mistake of trickle truthing, but as I start to prepare for this I am feeling all sorts of dread at a level I did not expect after thinking about this for so long.

feelingverylow, That was a quick and good pivot, bravo. I can see that you are sincere in your desire to change, to understand yourself, to disclose to your wife what happened in your marriage, and to support her. I urge you to consider ripping off the bandaid and telling her soon. It is likely to not be one conversation, it will probably be many conversations, and if you find a betrayal therapist you can let the conversations be informed by the things that your wife is focused on.

I don't think you mentioned if you are religious in any way or not, so I will share my understanding of what is happening for you and you can take it or leave it. I was not God-fearing/loving until I was working my way out of infidelity and now I very much am. Christianity is full of warnings about not only unseen powers that are good and loving (God, Holy Spirit, Christ!) but also unseen powers that hate us and want us trapped and enslaved to sin. (1 Peter The enemy prowls like a roaring lion seeking to devour us and John 10 the enemy will steal and kill and destroy and Paul's warning about being aware of Satan's schemes in Corinthians.) With this understanding, it is not only your psychology/ego that is telling you not to disclose but spiritual forces of evil that want to keep you ensnared. These powers don't care all that much about you handing a sandwich to a homeless guy or some other mundane quotidian act of mercy but the struggle to change your heart, to turn from dark to light, from lie to truth, that will be vehemently opposed. I think that right now the surest way to counteract this attack is to disclose swiftly; there is only so much preparation you can do, and I think you've done it.

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the pwoers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realm. (Ephesians 6)