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10 weeks since DDay and yesterday he confessed that AP did in fact touch his manhood.
I know in my heart that I don’t have the whole story and it’s like mental torture.
He passed polygraph for no PIV or oral but admitted to sexual contact, always adamant that she never touched him it was him that touched her, I don’t believe it. I’ve read that

Apologies this is in 2 posts.
Cont, I’ve read that mutual masturbation is a thing with cheaters who believe that no PIV = no cheating. I believe this is what happened.
My question is I’ve told H that his story doesn’t add up it never has and tonight we are going out to park up somewhere and he’s going to tell me everything. Can anyone give me any advice on how to make him understand that the TT is killing me and I need Everything! My stomach is in knots because I feel like if I know he is lying again tonight I may end the M.
What can I do?

I am sorry you are facing so much pain and stress from this affair.

Here’s my two cents on cheaters. I would say it is highly unlikely most BS get 100% of the truth. And most likely IF they do, it comes trickling out from the cheater.

I will share that my H had an EA for 4 years. In person. I knew about it from the day I met the OW that she was very interested in him. He stopped communicating w/ me b/c he had the OW. Fast forward to affair 2 and the second OW told me he admitted to her that he did, in fact, chest in me with OW1.

Now my H swears it was not sexual. To this day he is adamant they never had sex. Hmmmm……I just don’t believe it. Maybe it wasn’t intercourse but I do believe it there was sexual contact. But he refuses to admit it.

To reconcile I had to accept the fact he’s a coward who is so afraid of the truth he would choose to lie about something that he knows I know happened.

The trickle truth will destroy any progress you make. It is unfortunate that the cheater doesn’t see the reality of their choices. I believe fear is a motivating factor and it’s ridiculous the cheater doesn’t realize the Damage and pain they are causing.

I love my H and we are happy. But to remain happy I have to recognize he’s a coward who cannot tell the truth about certain things.

The1stwife,
I’m not sure I can accept that, I can’t accept the lies or withholding information. He doesn’t seem to grasp that I’ve been married to him for 25 years and I can tell when he’s lying.
Lying to himself is what got him in this mess in the first place and I don’t want to be married to someone who can’t handle telling the truth because I deserve the truth.

I think you're right that honesty between H & W is a requirement.

I told my W repeatedly that if she told me something now, I might walk, but if it comes out 6-12-? months from now, I will walk. At the time, I thought I really meant that.

But the person with the knowledge is the one with the power to share. My W had decided before she revealed her A that she'd answer any question I askes as completely and honestly as she could. That means my warning had no effect, and I really have no idea how I'd have behaved if I had been tested.

*****

Actually I WAS tested, a little more than a year out. She said something that I thought was important new info. She pointed me to the timeline we constructed. Sure enough, the incidents were there. I just saw them differently in early 2012 than I did in mid-2011.

IOW, a written timeline can be a big help in deciding between D & R.

I should add that finding out the info was not new was a great relief to me. R had been going well, and I didn't want to face the decision to call a halt because of TT.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:52 PM, Friday, March 7th]

That is a very good point sisoon, I never thought of the timeline in a positive way.

I’ve tried many different ways of explaining to him how much TT effects me, I’ve even been sympathetic towards him, I know he fears losing me and I know he feels like he’s being backed in a corner but I need peace and can’t seem to reach him, he will not remove his armour.

I basically interrogated my WW. Wrote down all her answers consistantly reviewed them. She insisted a lot of things didnt happen. She lied to me about stuff i had caught her doing. The thing about Lies are they are inconsistent. Any time something was said that was not consistent I dug into it. She eventually went from "you never believe anything I say" to eventually admitting it.

Marriage councilor helped a lot with that getting her to stop lying. It took a long time. I don't know i will ever know 100 percent the truth. But I'm 95 percent sure I have most of it. She called her APs spouse to admit and apologized to her and and answered her questions.

It's been 18 years I don't think she had any idea her husband cheated on her.

Oh my H has had 10 weeks of interigation and the same thing, inconsistent answers or the choice of answers are ‘as far as I can remember’ ‘I can’t remember exactly but’ ‘I can only remember those events I can’t remember anymore’.
Sometimes I think I’m like a dog with a bone and I’m digging for nothing really as I know the bigger picture and main events but the thought of AP having power because she has information and secrets with my H infuriates me, I’m talking blind rage, also it makes me feel my H is choosing her over me.

You can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink it.

Unfortunately, the same is true with a wayward spouse. You can explain, try to "help them understand" why, or turn yourself inside out in every way imaginable. If someone wants to lie, they will lie. You can call it "trickle truth," but it's just lies told by someone desperately trying to keep control of a situation.

Nothing you can say or do will change your WH. Only he can decide when he's finished with the BS and ready to tell you the truth. If he's like my husband, he may remain too much of a coward ever to come fully clean. You need to decide whether you can live with it or not.

After years of lies and obfuscation, I realized it was pretty pointless to ask him questions I didn't know the answers to. I'm sorry, there's no magic way to shine the light and get some folks to see it. Some will only ever see a train coming for them.

I got the same thing, I don't remember blah blah blah.

That's a scapegoat she was insisting and trying to say she can't remember "specifics" then deflect to insignificant conversations she had with her AP. Or very specific dates.

This was a tactic to avoid being honest.

They remember having an affair they remember messing around they know what they did.

My WW broke down eventually accusing me of not needing to know. And it was pain and shame to remember it and say it out loud.

I had to explain I don't care about her feelings on this. It's about honesty and I repeated I don't care what emotional pain or embarrassment shame or humility it caused her. It was about helping me heal so I know she was being honest.

I’ve tried many different ways of explaining to him how much TT effects me....

I don't think that ever works, but I never had to deal with TT.

The best way by far to stop TT, IMO, is to figure out what sanctions you'll impose if you get it.

I am so convinced that honesty is essential for R and M that I would counsel D when any partner refuses to be honest. Easier said than done, I know.

So many people here at SI have come to realize that the lies after DDAY did more damage than the A itself. But I don’t know how to convince a WS of that. WS have spent a lot of time doing mental gymnastics that "what you don’t know won’t hurt you" and not all WS can reprogram their thinking, at least not in a reasonable amount of time. Often they double down on this, and convince themselves that they are sparing you the pain. They are wrong - because you can’t forgive what you don’t know. Trust cannot be rebuilt without a foundation of honesty and truthfulness, and a willingness to be vulnerable even if it may result in a D. (Meaning what they confess may cross the line for what you can accept).

Anything else is a house of cards.

I think the WS really needs to come to this realization - on their own or with their IC.

And if he skated the truth on a polygraph, well, it’s hard to imagine he’d decide to tell everything. 🤷‍♀️ (by skated the truth, maybe he did not lie, but he KNEW the intent of the question and did not tell you. To me, that is not passing the polygraph. That is skating by.)

What is HIS definition of cheating? What is yours? Mine is any intimate contact - sexual or otherwise and any sharing of intimate details of our lives. And a good clue of the boundary is if you wouldn’t do it in front of your spouse, it’s probably inappropriate. If you actively hide it, then it is definitely inappropriate.

I do think it takes a little time for WS to come out of the "fog" and steel themselves for the consequences of their actions. 10 weeks is quite a long time if you are not seeing him actively trying to improve.

Good luck, Bruce. Please remember that you are the prize. And don’t settle for scraps.
Sending strength.