SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Been forever since I've posted. Life moves on as I've learned. I have been in a relationship with the same woman for over 5 years now, which I NEVER believed possible!
I wish to pose a question related to current relationships and interactions with the ex.
Background: Divorce finalized March of 2018. The ex-WW and I have settled into what I consider an innocuous co-parenting relationship with two HS teen boys. We cooperate well with schedules, changes, appointments, even taking the dog if I have to travel or something. I could even go so far as to describe the relationship as "friendly." We agreed early on, even through the post-affair anger and hatred, that we would not splash any of our shit on the kids and have pretty much kept to that paradigm. We aren't in each other's lives so to speak, but we are in our kids' lives, so there is "cross-pollination" so to speak. It's probably the ONLY thing we've done well together!
Late January this year, the ex-WW's mother passed away after an aggressive and short illness. She was 80 but you'd never guess it by looking at her. Everyone was shocked and saddened. She was always good to me and my boys adored her almost as much as she adored them. She also played a role, way back when, helping to get me into law school.
I also suspect she secretly at least sympathized with me on some level for the things her daughter put me through. I attended memorial service/mass, helped with the kids before and after as the ex dealt with her mother's final illness and passing and generally tried to ease things for all and set an example for my sons.
At the end of May for the youngest's last day of 8th grade "ceremony," she saves a seat both for me (that we've done for the other kid things involving crowds) and one for her late mother because she "should have been here for this, damn it!" We all grieve differently, right?
As we are chatting, primarily about her mom, she's starts to break down some and shares, unsolicited, that she ended her latest relationship the night before. (There have been 3-4 longer term relationships since we split.) I've met him once or twice before as one of his kids and my oldest are friends and paths inevitably cross. I've seen this before, of course. My ex-WW has a knack for treating random, unconnected life events as unified occurrences that victimize her specifically.
As she starts to break down more, I pat her on the back, offering a small manner of comfort mostly about her mom as she tries to collect herself. To me, I was commiserating with her about her mother and offering some comfort to another human being who was grieving the same person I was.
Fast forward to last week. Both kids are in band marching in the school's homecoming parade and performing in the halftime show for the game later that evening. Even in what is a smaller community, the folks here "show up." So our small town is basically madness for 4-5 hours. The ex and I end up finding room in grassy area outside the end zone to watch the first half and half-time show with the kids. We sat and chatted like a coupe of adults with kids in the show.
The woman I've been with and love very much and would enjoy nothing more than finishing this run with, does not like either of these occurrences. Views me as being "too close" and still "emotionally supporting" my ex. That I was cheating. It seems more and more that any interaction with my ex brings us to this argument. The interactions are all kid-related as far as I'm concerned.
I look at it like everything with my ex. How can I get through with as minimal drama as possible? And that's how I've gotten to the place I described above as "friendly." This makes up part of my own "emotional protection" routine. I could be a wounded angry asshole, but kids pick up on that and it's terrible for my own well-being.
I also believe that how I navigate my co-parent relationship with my ex is my choice. If I can't sit next to my ex at a HS football game through half time to watch our kids in the half-time show without upsetting my current partner, I don't think I want to be with that person.
Or am I off base on this?

I am sure many people will be along to weigh in soon.

FWIW I see your location as WI and many of us are what I have heard called "Midwest Nice". In other words not rocking the boat nice.

Also I do find Ex relationships can be hard enough to navigate. I am curious if maybe your current girlfriend perceives your exww negatively and sees her as acting in ways that are concerning or being prone to crossing boundaries like are described in books like not just friends….

There are some people who are ok with partners being friends with people who are the gender and orientation they have or would possibly have a relationship with (often referred to as "men being friends with women" or vice versa).
My boundary might be my fiancé having any contact with his exww because I know the backstory and she has never to my knowledge expressed any empathy or remorse for anything egregious she did. It’s not in my case that I think he would cheat with her. It’s just that she has proven herself damaging to many people.

Sometimes it’s just whether values around these sorts of relationships are in alignment. I don’t have an issue with my fiancé "being in the car alone" with my female friends if I am, for example, out of town and they need a ride to the airport. I don’t worry that he will cheat with female colleagues on work trips. I am not jealous of the mother of "his" (sadly not entirely sure if this is the case given her past behavior) children. But given our ex wayward spouse’s histories of manipulative and generally aweful behavior neither of us think it’s good for the other and us for that matter to be in the vicinity .
Every situation is different. I hope you find resolution and peace with your situation.

I find it a bit odd that you would feel the need to sit together. Do you do that when your GF tags along also? I have no kids myself and have only been in the ex's presence once since the divorce 15 years ago. With my current wife, her relationship with her ex was friendly enough, but we never sat together at her kids events. Talked, said hello, gossiped, but in the end she didn't feel the need to endure his presence any longer than politeness required. I knew enough about her ex to know there was nothing there regardless of how much they interacted. We have had dinner with all the kids, the ex, and the ex's parents. It wasn't that they couldn't hang out together, the first interaction was at her oldest's graduation party with his entire side of the family present, just that it wasn't something that they felt was necessary..

I look at it like everything with my ex. How can I get through with as minimal drama as possible? And that's how I've gotten to the place I described above as "friendly." This makes up part of my own "emotional protection" routine.

I suspect she is reading that your ex wants you back now that's she's been single for a while. Your minimizing and surprising any dislike for you ex to make that relationship as drama free as possible makes it seem that you might be susceptible to that.

Congratulations on navigating a low conflict divorce and creating a supportive environment for your children. It sounds like your relationship with your girlfriend is highly rewarding other than this issue.

I'll be blunt. I would feel the same as your girlfriend, and I would break up if you couldn't see my concerns.

For me, where you crossed the line was your ex-wife breaking down emotionally over her relationship and you consoling her, especially physically. Now when you are at children's events, as your girlfriend I would be wondering what other emotional and personal things you're discussing. I think an appropriate response is simply saying, "I'm sorry to hear that" and changing the subject. I sit with adults of the opposite sex at events, and we never discuss relationships like that.

I know you want things to be drama free, but do you have boundaries where you will stop your ex-wifes behavior if she gets even more intimate? What if she starts texting all the time? Talking about how much she misses you? Telling you she needs to see you?

In all fairness, I will reveal that is exactly how my husband's affair progressed with his female friend 8 years ago. I told him she was getting too close when she started complaining about her marriage. He hid the rest after that confrontation. I wish he would have left instead.

Edit: after reading grubs reply, I want to add that I felt this way about my WH's friend before he was unfaithful or there were any signs of anything like that. Also, I would be questioning your other female relationships, not just an ex. Your wife clearly is a woman with weak boundaries. I need to see that my partner has strong boundaries with women in general and will stop any advances, rather than trying to take the most conflict avoidant option. My read on "How do I get out of this with the least drama?" is that you are acting like a conflict avoidant Mr nice guy.

[This message edited by KitchenDepth5551 at 12:39 AM, Wednesday, October 2nd]

If I can't sit next to my ex at a HS football game through half time to watch our kids in the half-time show without upsetting my current partner, I don't think I want to be with that person.

Well, this indicates that you do not hold your GFs feelings as a priority, and you have lingering emotions for your XW.

I had a quick read of your previous threads, and it seems that you default to a KiSA mode with your XW.

This does not bode well for your own future, as you will probably never have another LTR again as your potential partners will always be competing against your XW.

Thanks all for the feedback. A couple of points and answers to questions.

Grubs asked if we sit together if my GF is present. Yes, absolutely have in the past. Rewind a year for another school marching band half-time show. Me, my youngest (my weekend), my GF and her son, the ex, my former MIL before she got sick, the guy my ex just dumped all sitting (proximately) together for the half time show my oldest and the exBF's son were doing. Not the only instance. Not always, not always that full lineup, but yes, it has happened.

We do this for multiple reasons. Available space. When her mom was present, which was often, I remain friendly and enjoyed seeing her. The woman helped get me into law school after all. But mostly to show our kids that they come first for us both. And we don't need to be openly hostile to one another. They were 9 and 7 when we split and they were exposed to some ugly stuff from us both early on. The older one comes with similar anxiety and other emotional challenges that his mother deals with. Once we got into and through the divorce process (our second from each other, btw), some of the anger subsided, we both agreed to not let it splash on the kids again. Further example, I think second holidays after we split in 2017, she had the kids as scheduled and my mom was visiting. So she hosted me, my mom, her mom for dinner because that was the narrow window available for my mom to see her grandkids. Because that interaction with my mom is important to the boys and me because my mom's would have been 82 at the time and there aren't going to be many more chances. This flexibility applies when either my brothers or her sister are in town visiting as well. Family beats schedule.

The ex has been single for a couple months, but the idea we would end up either "back" together as you suggest or even a one-time fling is simply not possible. Navigating for minimal conflict is just maintaining my indifference.

To RocketRacoon, as indicated above, not the first instance. Mostly situationally driven and my GF sometimes (schedules, etc.) also there. As I indicated, haven't posted in several years. Much of those previous posts served as vent and support and "misery loves company" mind set at the time. Certainly not in that place anymore.

To KitchenDepth I will say she didn't initially get emotional about the relationship. It started with the seat for her mom and "she should be here, damnit" that kicked it off. I was feeling down about it as well because her mom and the 8th grader we were there for were close and I felt bad for what he missed. She just tossed in the news about the exBF. And my response literally was a pat on the back and either what you said or "that's too bad." But the grief we both felt for her mom was real.

And for the latest kids half-time show, we basically sat there and chatted about innocuous stuff like adults. So when I say "If I can't sit there" like a couple of adults when the kids are involved (and the place was insane and I hate crowds), it's driven by all this, by two marriages to each other, two kids, an abortion, an affair and three decades (on and off) of history and baggage between the two of us. Maybe at my age, I'm just looking for a little peace in my life?

So the "things" my GF may be considering aren't really in me. Which we've discussed. And the "miss you" texts and whatnot are not happening, have not happened shit even when we WERE married, and will not happen. My ex's affair for her was an exit affair. I got knifed in the back, but whatever. I also haven't hidden anything. I could have. But I didn't because it doesn't matter to me.

And if doesn't matter to me, how and why does it matter to anyone else? Do I not get to decide how I navigate my co-parenting relationship with my ex?

It sounds like you are a very kind and thoughtful person who is putting your kids first. As long as you are upfront with your gf, I don't see any problem with how you are handling things. You are setting a great example for your sons.

I admire couples that can get along after divorcing and are able to support and put their kids first.

I think you should reassure your gf but I see no reason why you should change how you are handling things.

I was getting the impression originally that you were simply non-confrontational and trying to co-parent smoothly. Now I'm getting the impression that this relationship with your ex is important to you. The more you minimize with statements like "just two adults talking" and "it's crowded so we save seats" and deflect/attack with statements like "don't I deserve" and "I am incapable of cheating", the worse I would feel as your girlfriend. It's starting to get into DARVO territory. You don't seem to empathize with your girlfriend, and the relationship with your ex seems more important.

I tried to put myself in your situation. I have neighbors and casual male friends that I've known for less than 10 years. We would chat for a while at a school event or funeral. It wouldn't be awkward to not sit with them or get up and leave. I have 30 yr+ male friends I've known since before either of us were married. We've been through major life events together with mutual friends. We discuss things like our parents dying. I've known some of their parents for years too. One male friend invites himself up on short notice to spend the night with and without his wife. He has a reason to be in town. It wouldn't be awkward if my husband weren't here. But if my husband didn't like it, I would make other arrangements. I can't imagine making standing dates for saving seats at funerals or children's functions. I also can't imagine physically comforting him.

I feel like if your girlfriend wrote your post from her perspective, it would sound different. It's interesting that the beginning of her discomfort 5 years out is about the same point I would be uncomfortable.

You absolutely have a right, and even responsibility, to co-parent how you see fit. Your girlfriend has a right to have a relationship that makes her feel secure and valued too. Good luck. It sounds like you've already made a choice.

Disclaimer **I don’t have children and my parents, from what I knew were happily married for 75 years, so no divorce growing up**

…I can appreciate modeling a good coparenting example for your children. And your MIL sounded like she was very supportive of you. However, your ex fired you from being her emotional support network. That is no longer your role. Your children, of course. Her? Nope.

And I agree, it feels to me you are defending your actions, because you feel you are in the right and your GF is being unreasonable. Fine, you are entitled to manage the relationship with your ex as you wish, but I expect it will continue to be a problem in your current relationship….until you choose your ex and your "rights" over what sounds like a pretty good thing for 5 years?

And if doesn't matter to me, how and why does it matter to anyone else? Do I not get to decide how I navigate my co-parenting relationship with my ex?

I get what you’re saying but are you willing to sacrifice your gf and relationship for your ex? Don’t just dismiss what your gf is feeling or you risk losing her.

Let me ask you this; suppose the roles were reversed and your gf was doing these things with her exh. Let’s suppose further that it made you uncomfortable and she essentially had the attitude you do. Do you think you’d be ok with that?

You can be cordial with your ex while not jeopardizing your relationship with your gf.

[This message edited by ff4152 at 8:11 PM, Friday, October 4th]

I think there is a mile of difference between being hostile towards your ex and feeling compelled to sit next to each other. Why not just treat her like a professional colleague you don't really care for. Your ex cheated and put your children in this situation. My ex tries to sit near me at sons football games but not next to me. Personally I don't want to be around her more than

Your current girlfriends feelings are more important, even if you don't understand them, or even think they are ridiculous, they need to be respected since you are now the couple, not you and your ex.

As someone else said, what if the shoe were on the other foot, and her ex was single, perhaps wanting her back, and she was rubbing his back, talking deeply personal issues, wanting to sit with him, especially if she had children with him.

I get that it's nice things are working well but it comes down to do you really want the new relationship. Maybe deep down you are looking for a way out? If not it's worth taking a second look at things.

Best of luck on navigating this crap we didn't choose.