SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I posted this on Reddit about 3 weeks ago via an anonymous profile I created. Someone replied that this a very safe place with nonjudgmental people, and that I should copy the post here.

My wife an I have been married for 16 years and have two amazing kids. We’ve always considered ourselves best friends. We fight at times, like anyone else, but it’s very seldom.

We had friends over for the night a couple days ago. Whenever we get together we either stay at their place, or them at ours due to the distance. We always drink, reminisce, play board games, etc. They are some of our best friends. His wife and I always go to bed earlier, we are not stay up all night people. My wife and her husband will talk all night. Neither of us ever thought we had anything to worry about.

This night was no different. His wife and I were tired and went to bed. They usually stay in the basement, but we gave them out daughters room since she was away at college. I had to get up at some point to get some water. I got up and went to the basement to find them fucking. He’s lucky I didn’t kill him. My 15 year old son was home. Athough I freaked, I mostly kept composure and my voice lower. I put my hands on him, but somehow was able to stop. I had to think of my son. I went up to the room his wife was sleeping and woke her up. I told her that this was going to be incredibly hard, but I needed her to be quiet no matter what because my son was in the room next door. I told her exactly what happened. Amazingly, she was able to hold her shit together. She got him and they left.

We found out later the next day that they did this once before- that they admit to anyway. I am so fucking lost right now. Our daughter just started her freshman year in college, and this will destroy both her and my son. I told her I want a divorce. She is balling her eyes out and saying it was a mistake, that I am her entire world, and she can’t lose me. Yesterday I flipped on her and told that was all bullshit. Once might be a mistake. Twice is on purpose and premeditated. I have no idea what I am going to do going forward. I just needed to get this off my chest. Other than his wife, I have not spoken to anyone about this. I set up an appointment with a therapist for Wednesday. I’m fucking broken.

It has been 3 weeks to the day as of today. I have seen a therapist, and find it as helpful as possible at this time. My WS is finding someone as well. I have agreed to try marriage counseling. I feel I owe that to my kids after 18 years of marriage. I’m still as lost as ever. I’m still having a roller coaster of emotions, but overall I am just so fucking sad.

It's bad enough when it's a stranger but a friend, that's devastating.

This is a great place to find support and advice. Have you spoken to his wife? She may have more/ different information

I have spoken with his wife. We have found out it happened more than once. We are touching base a couple times a week just to check in on each others well being.

I’m sorry you are going through this. A betrayal by one person is bad enough let alone two.

SI is a great and safe place for advice and to just vent when you need to.

Welcome to SI. I am very sorry you had to experience catching them in the act. Don’t underestimate the trauma you have experienced. Your reality has been blown apart. Take care of you. You will receive good advice. Do follow through with therapy. Read in the healing library and the pinned threads here. Eat healthy. Exercise. Stay away from alcohol and drugs. Get tested for STDs. See an attorney to learn your rights. Be there for your kids. Remember nothing you did or didn’t do in your M caused her to cheat. Take no blame. Your emotions are going to continue all over the place. Unfortunately you have to go through the emotional roller coaster before things start to improve. But you will come out the other side. You have no idea how long this has been going on. Whatever you do, always value yourself. Keep posting. Good luck.

Welcome to SI and I'm very sorry that you're here. There are some pinned posts at the top of the forum that we encourage new members to read. There are some good ones that are marked with bull's eye icons that are good, too. The Healing Library is at the top of the page and has lots of helpful information, and it includes the list of acronyms that we use.

I'm glad you're in IC (individual counseling). Your WW (wayward wife) needs to dig deep and find out her whys. You'll find that cheaters lie and then lie some more. She should read How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda MacDonald and Not Just Friends by Dr. Shirley Glass. Hold off on MC (marriage counseling) until you've had a chance to heal. Unless you're super lucky and get a really good MC, they have a tendency to shift some of the blame to you. While you're responsible for 50% of the M, the A is 100% your WW's fault. Your M didn't cheat - your WW did.

You're right that this isn't a mistake. A mistake is forgetting to grab a gallon of milk at the store. An A takes a multitude of decisions to lie and cheat. She will need to do a lot of work to show that she's a safe partner.

Expect all kinds of emotions because they're normal. We call it the emotional rollercoaster and it can pick you up for a ride at any time. Unfortunately, it can take 2-5 years for you to heal, and longer if you decide to R (reconcile).

Please be sure to read the post about recovering before you say reconcile. Reconciliation is a gift that you may decide to extend to your WW. Also, look up sunk cost fallacy. Don't hesitate just because you've been together for so long, when it may be better for you to D (divorce).

Go see a lawyer (or several) to see what D would look like. Knowledge is power and knowing is better than imagining the what ifs.

If you have problems eating, try protein shakes to keep your energy up. If you have anxiety or depression, see your doctor for meds. You may also want to get tested for STDs/STIs (as well as your WW) because there are some nasty diseases out there that can turn into cancer. Not only did she and AP (affair partner) betray you, she has put your health at risk.

Again, sorry you're here.

Thank you for your message. Can you tell me how I did the post on Recovery you are referring to? I’m finding this site a bit hard to navigate.

In the Just Found Out forum on page two near the top is the thread: Before You Say Reconcile….Recover.

I would recommend finding out exactly what has been going on, it took longer than I expected to find out everything.

If I in your position, and I were considering possibly finding a way to reconcile I would want to know exactly what I would be forgiving and exactly what has been going on.

I'm thinking a polygraph would be a very cost effective way to find out some things. It is not a cure all but its a good way to apply the litmus test.

The mention of them speaking to the wee hours of morning often while you and his wife had already gone to sleep seems very curious and suspect.

I'm very sorry about your situation, actually having a hard time accepting that a story like this one is real. Just wow. Your wife is either a stone cold liar or simply insane. She loves you and was still able to bang this dude while being in close proximity to you, a guy who is her "whole world".
And you got to see her in action with your own eyes, and also know it wasn't their first time either. If your wife was incredibly brave to do something like this while you were in the house, you might want to ask yourself how many other
affairs she has had so far (where she wasn't as brave).

You don't need marriage counseling now and you should stop that immediately. It presupposes that your WW's cheating had something to do with you not being the perfect husband. It sure as hell has nothing to do with whether you were the perfect husband or not though, that got your WW to **decide that it was OK for her** to go fuck another man.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 3:35 AM, Sunday, September 15th]

You have received some good advice so far. I want to emphasize what others have already said:

DO NOT, under any circumstance, DO NOT allow yourself to accept any blame for her betraying you.

Also, do not let anyone else try to blame you. Stop that shit dead in its tracks if anyone tries that on you.

Even if there was a ton of problems in your marriage (which there wasn't), you were in the same marriage that she was and you did not cheat.

Also, the marriage itself did not cheat.

Too often we have seen women and men who were newly betrayed show up here and they seem to immediately begin thinking that if they had done this, or done that, maybe they could have prevented their cheating spouse's affair. So, they begin thinking they are somehow to blame. What causes that kind of thinking is they want to regain some sort of control. If they can regain some semblance of control, they can start to believe that everything will some how, some way, be okay again at some point in the future.

But no matter what you maybe did or did not do has no bearing on her having an affair. The reason she cheated is because she wanted to cheat and she more than likely thought that she would never get caught.

However, the fact they were doing it in the basement while you, his wife, and your son were upstairs sleeping is the ultimate in both disrespect and arrogance. Surely they must have had a thought that doing it that way would be risky as hell. But maybe they were just so horny for each other that the risk involved was worth the danger for them. Or, maybe the drinking clouded their thinking. Whatever it was, they had no fear of being caught.

They took you and his wife for granted. They thought they knew you two so well that you two would not wake up and walk in on them. They thought you two chumps were too dumb to suspect them cheating. Let alone catch them in the act.

This has probably been going on for a very long time and has probably happened in your home before... maybe in you and your wife's marital bed, which is the ultimate act of disrespect. They were just too damn comfortable this time around.

Again, you have received some great advice from the others. This site has a very good library, so please make use of it. The more you can read and learn about the subject of infidelity, the better you will be able to handle what comes your way.

Good luck to you.

[This message edited by lrpprl at 4:43 AM, Sunday, September 15th]

Right now there’s nothing advice wise I can add that hadn’t already been said. I will say that I doubt it was just twice. Doing that in the same house while everyone else is sleeping is more an escalation event than just "it just happened." This smacks of escalation of risk "to be extra naughty" or some similar barf inducing reason.

I'm do sorry that this has happened to you.

I guess I'm lucky in that I didn't catch my fWW in the act. Hearing about it from my friend who did was bad enough. I still get "mind movies" once in awhile and it was over thirty years ago. If I'd seen it myself, I'd have divorced her in a second.

"She is balling her eyes out and saying it was a mistake, that I am her entire world, and she can’t lose me."

It wasn't a mistake. And she proved you weren't her entire world by cheating on you. Now she's feeling the consequences of her actions.

The worst part in all of this is that you'll mever be able to get that picture out of your head, ever. It will lessen but it'll be there.

Take care of yourself.

[This message edited by WishidleftHer at 6:54 PM, Monday, September 16th]

Kids are very good at picking up on actions. They most likely suspected something was going on.

Your goal now is to protect you and your children's future. Get to a lawyer quickly.

Strength to You!

@Machiavelli1469, believe me, I’m having a hard time believing this is real too.

A mistake, by the way, is picking up the wrong kind of milk at the supermarket on the way home.

Your WW's actions were no mistake, they were instead **intentional decisions**. Please be clear about that whenever WW tries to use the word 'mistake' like that!

ETA: Are you *positive* this was your WW's only affair? Because I sure as hell wouldn't be!

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 6:26 PM, Sunday, September 15th]

So very sorry you’re having to go thru all this! Right now your world has been thrown upside down. So many betrayed men take the unfortunate path of trying to put the M back together at all costs, start the "pick me dance", blame themselves, etc. DO NO DO THAT. On the other hand, the "successful" betrayed (that is, those who come out the best after having been subjected to this living hell), are unanimously those who take a strong, decisive path, and refuse to tolerate one more moment of abuse and disrespect. Yes, adultery is absolutely abuse, and the very highest form of disrespect.

1. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCE should you start MC now. Even the most pro-R people here, who believe anyone can be reconciled no matter what, if you simply choose to, even they would say NOT to start MC for a VERY LONG TIME. Marriage counselors will try to save the M no matter what, and always suck at holding the adulterer accountable, and typically buy into the "unmet needs" fallacy, and therefore assign some blame to the betrayed spouse. Your adulterous wife is the one who needs to immediately start IC.

2. Demand she WRITE a FULLY DETAILED timeline. Tell her she has 24 hours to write EVERY interaction, every text, every feeling, who said what, who initiated what, every sexual innuendo, every sexual act they did, along with the when, where, how, etc. Did anyone else know what those two were doing? If so, they’re out of your life forever. Tell her she has once shot at this - if you discover she’s not disclosed 100% the first time, it’s game over and straight to D.

3. Have her give you a written copy, and then have her sit down and READ her timeline to you. Watch her face as she does this.

4. Then tell her she will pay for and sit for a polygraph where she will be asked to confirm the timeline as 100% accurate and 100% comprehensive for everything that happened. She will also be asked whether she has been in ANY way sexual (the examiner will define this) with anyone else since the moment you two were "exclusive" as a couple. Then ask her if she has anything to add to the timeline.

5. This will elicit a chorus of "boos" from some here, but I would tell her that you are initiating D. Tell her that divorces take a long time and she has until the D is final to convince you to stop it. That puts the onus on her, where it should be, to save this M. Tell her that how she conducts herself in the D will also directly influence you whether there will be any future to your relationship. I would also seriously consider demoting her to girlfriend status, which you might consider if she gives you extremely generous terms in the D.

6. Insist she informs both of your families of exactly what she’s done. SO MANY betrayed, especially betrayed men, get vilified by their spouse, with slanderous claims of abuse and worse. Some men have been hauled away in cuffs with calls to police with lies about domestic abuse. Having her do this is NOT "punishment". It’s to prevent false narratives, and your families both get a chance to step up and support you, and hold your wife accountable.

7. If you decide not to immediately file for D (sigh), at least demand a post-nuptial agreement, with terms extremely favorable to you, where if you decide to later file for D, for any reason, the terms favoring you have already been agreed to. This must be done through lawyers and I would recommend she signs while being videotaped, so no later claims of signing under duress can be made.

8. Follow thru with the poly. Make HER pay for it personally. In the parking lot, tell her she has one last chance to add anything to her story now, where you promise you will stay calm and take 30 days to consider what was shared. On the other hand, if she fails the poly, it’s 100% game over forever.

9. In any case, and sorry to state the obvious, but this "friend" is out of your life forever. Zero contact, except if you’re lucky enough to live in a state where you could sue for alienation of affection. I’d ask his wife to insist he also has to inform all their families as well.

10. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCE ought you agree to R for at least a year. SO many betrayed, in a state of panic and bewilderment, agree quickly to R only to deeply regret that decision for the rest of their lives. A year would be the absolute minimum (imo of course) to see genuine proof of true remorse (defined as being devastated at the pain they caused YOU and not merely disliking the consequences their choices wrought), and to see sustained behavioral changes that support true remorse and true inner change. It IS true that SOME adulterers have truly changed and have now become "safe" in their relationships. YOU MUST KNOW THIS IS THE ABSOLUTE EXCEPTION TO THE RULE. By definition, adulterers are incredibly selfish, self-centered people. Such people will therefore be the least likely to reach the level of self-disgust required to truly change permanently. Many adulterers are good at white-knuckling good behavior for a period of time, as they desperately attempt to avoid the consequences of their choices. DON’T FALL FOR THAT. Your wife is now in save-her-ass mode, but that’s zero proof of true change. She will likely try to love-bomb you, and pull out all stops in the sex department. Up to you whether you want some of that, but at minimum, recognize what she’s doing for what it is: CYA and manipulation.

11. Tell her it’s ON HER to "fix this". You will NOT be feeding her books to read, therapists to work with, etc. If she doesn’t move heaven and earth ON HER OWN, if she’s not immediately willing to crawl across broken glass FOR THE REST OF HER LIFE, then there’s nothing to work with here, and you’d be infinitely better off going straight to D. Tell her you will be observing what she does to "fix this" (not that there’s ANYTHING she or anyone could do to fix this). Only say if you don’t see monumental action, and see it quick, it’s game over. If she assigns ANY blame for ANY of this to you, it’s game over. If she EVER asks "Are you not over this yet?", it’s game over. If she doesn’t immediately agree her work will be a LIFETIME PROCESS, it’s game over.

12. I would ask her to go live elsewhere, for at least a month. You likely can’t legally force her out, but you can ask. Such a separation gives you a better opportunity to recover, and to think more objectively. She’s going to be a direct trigger to you for the foreseeable future, so some space is crucial to get your bearings. If she refuses, proceed to file, and at least make her move to a spare bedroom or the couch. YOU didn’t defile the marriage bed - SHE DID.

These are the natural consequences for her actions. Again, they are NOT punishment. I can only urge you again, with all I have, how important it is for you to take a position of strength and an absolute intolerance for one more minute of abuse and disrespect.

Above all, KEEP POSTING!!! There’s absolute gold in the wisdom of many folks here. You don’t have to make the same mistakes so many others have committed! Learn from our failures!

[This message edited by gr8ful at 6:50 PM, Sunday, September 15th]

My wife tried saying she made a mistake. I told her "You made a choice, not a mistake. A mistake is grabbing 2% instead of whole milk."

Early on she tried the mutual blame game. Her:"Placing blame doesn't help. We are both at fault"

Me:"I am not to blame. You decided to have an affair. This is all on you"

Took her a while to finally accept full responsibility and be able to say "This is all on me"

Unthought - I have to say that reading the first part of your post I thought for a quick moment that you were the OBS (the other betrayed spouse - the now ex-husband of the woman my wayward husband "WH" had an affair with - she or people like her are referred to as the "AP" - the affair partner - on this site) from my husband's affair posting. My WH had an affair with a friend's wife - who we socialized with. My WH was very close with the OBS, and knew him before he met and married the AP - my WH was in their wedding and knew (and worked with) all the same people. He was, and by extension I was, part of a close knit group of people who socialized together frequently.

The AP and the OBS had a party at their house (but I was out of town and was not present) and apparently she - the AP - and my WH had an event similar to the one you describe although they did not complete the act because they thought the OBS was coming downstairs. AP and my WH were in AP-OBS's basement hanging out while everyone else had gone to sleep at about 2am and they were pretty much naked and were pretty close to penetration when they heard someone upstairs and stopped, and my WH got dressed and drove home (drunk). They, a few weeks later, finalized their sexual relations at our house while I was still away.

The logistics of the rest of the mess (and how I know that they did not actually have sex that first time) are really irrelevant here - I wanted to reach out because I know how it feels to be involved in what this site refers to as a "double betrayal" - meaning you were betrayed by your marital partner AND by the AP due to a friendship (or in some cases a familial relationship). I think it complicates things immensely. In my case even after discovery the A did not stop and when I found out about it continuing I told everyone and it did effect our social circle quite a bit.

I don't know how connected the AP/OBS in your world is to the rest of your social circle, but I will tell you that IF you decided to try to reconcile with your WS (or even if you don't), you will likely have to consider either removing yourself from that social circle, or at least breaking it up quite a bit. While this will not be a major consideration right now, it is something my WH will tell you that he really didn't consider much when the A was ongoing or when it was discovered. He was living in some totally insane fantasy land that somehow his life would just continue on with this person and that all the people he knew would be okay with him effectively replacing the OBS. They weren't. My WH has almost no social network now because of the A. It has been incredibly hard for him, and somewhat for me, as really we used to go out to dinner with people or play golf or just hang out several times a week and I would say that now we are invited to do something about once every 14-16 months. It has made our lives incredibly lonely.

At any rate, feel free to ask more about double betrayals as they really are a special variety of hell. I'm sorry you're here, but feel free to post what you need, take what you want, and disregard the rest.