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InkHulk ( member #80400) posted at 6:27 PM on Monday, June 10th, 2024

Ik an affair is an affair but I read some of the jfos here and my god some I can't even believe what I'm reading.

Also, what about the JFO threads is giving you this reaction?

Edit for clarity and tone.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 6:30 PM, Monday, June 10th]

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 2185   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8839132
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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 6:48 PM on Monday, June 10th, 2024

I am really sorry to hear your situation. That really adds a whole other level that I can't even imagine.

You are right, though, ap is not dangerous. And, like I said, of course somebody having kids full time is completely different, which is why I never entertained the thought of making this person a replacement for their dad. The truth is I've known this person for 6 years, I've seen him interact with his kids, and he also grew up with friends of our friends so I mean unless he's a sociopath or something there's no point in twisting what he is into what he could be if I "really" knew him. I really don't want to keep harping on this because for me it's just a dead end. The scrutiny really should stay on me because I'm the one who has small children, his are grown and out of the house, so really he's probably a better parent than I am. I risked way more to be with him than he did to be with me.

The reason I cheated was because I was angry with my husband and frustrated with myself. I was feeling sorry for myself bc I felt like I made a mistake getting married and instead of looking inward to see that I was contributing to it being miserable I fell into that trope of I should be happy with all I've sacrificed. I wanted to have good sex again even though I had a perfectly willing partner right in front of me. Then, after I seduced this guy, it became more about the sexual fantasies I didn't even know I had and being with someone who looked like him. The reasoning just kept getting more intense.

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8839137
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hikingout ( member #59504) posted at 6:49 PM on Monday, June 10th, 2024

I’m not sure I agree, but I respect hikingout too much to press very hard on her balanced approach that does combine truth with time and tact.

I understand your concern. This advice is based a couple of things:

-So many bs here saying "they said this right after dday and now they say they don’t mean it" it’s because the ws is in a state of throwing everything at the bs to justify their affair.

-it’s how I disclosed. I was very intentional to sit and think about the thoughts I was just spinning into the air to keep justifying an affair. By challenging these thoughts, I took accountability for why I had them and looked at what was actually true.

Think about some of the things you thought about your wife after dday. Did you filter yourself before speaking sometimes? I bet you did. Because you knew you couldn’t trust what you were saying and after it’s said there is no walking it back.

I’ll just say that even if you come out of the fog and reject the fantasy that AP was the kids’ upgraded father, I think your husband deserves to know that you started there, that AP had access to his kids, that you risked the kids walking in on you being physical with him. These are all relevant, even if they were founded on indefensible beliefs.

Absolutely agree. I did say that is exactly what she should do. I would say to my husband "I was so fucked up in the affair I convinced myself of ____. And now I see it this way." My husband absolutely knows everything I thought. I will say that none of mine were as damning as what she has to say, but she needs to look at what her part of those complaints and resentments are.

I told my husband the hard things like I enjoyed the sex, and that I believed I was in love with the AP and that he was better at emotional connection.

But over time I learned I really sucked at emotional connection too. I learned he was reacting to me. That I had a lot of unexpressed expectations. So knowing your part can help. I said things like “I blamed you for our lack of connection ruin yet I did nothing to improve it. I was locked into a role in my mind and not living like my true self. So it would have been impossible to feel seen and heard when I wasn’t showing up”. He has the truth and the reflection of the truth and that eveolves over time too.

I still say things like I was a fool to believe xyz.

And I have a very hard time reconciling the idea that you waiting on him to ask is anywhere close being fully transparent. That puts the betrayed in the position of playing the worst game of Battleship ever. They don’t know where the horrible is hidden, but you do. You sitting there hoping he doesn’t ask the right question, that is not being forthcoming.

1000 percent agree she is really aiming at the rug sweeping. I am trying to encourage her to challenge her current beliefs so that she can get to her true whys. Blaming her husband has to get off the table here so she needs to really reflect on the truth and the ways she has been wrong here.

And 1000 percent if she still thinks all this shut is true she should get a divorce.

Truth is very important to me. But I don’t think she has truth, she has a lot of unexamined thinking. She should disclose it all, I am just saying examine it first because it’s going to just add to the trauma without some measurement if she even really means any of this, what parts she really means, and what she truly believes the truth is. She has spent a lot of time brainwashing herself and she can’t even remember things like she just told us she is still in love with the AP. I remember being in this state and it’s very disorientating, because you tell yourself things that are not true and you believe it. Or it’s true but you are responsible for some of it.

I am only saying get to the bottom of these thoughts. Don’t lob a bunch of terrible shit that now he is questioning himself and what he believes about himself. I think that is cruel, because it makes him believe for whatever period of time he is the problem. You have to be more careful than that.

[This message edited by hikingout at 7:02 PM, Monday, June 10th]

7 years of hard work - WS and BS - Reconciled

posts: 7296   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
id 8839139
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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 6:54 PM on Monday, June 10th, 2024

Also, what about the JFO threads is giving you this reaction

?

The serial cheating, the leaving the family for weeks on end to cheat, the keeping in contact with ap, the affairs that lasted decades, and then adding drugs, alcohol, etc. into the mix.

Ik cheating is cheating but some of those stories were really hard to read.

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8839140
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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 6:56 PM on Monday, June 10th, 2024

For whomever asked, no, ap is not married. He has been a single father since his kids were in elementary school. They are now early 20s.

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8839141
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InkHulk ( member #80400) posted at 7:02 PM on Monday, June 10th, 2024

Think about some of the things you thought about your wife after dday. Did you filter yourself before speaking sometimes? I bet you did. Because you knew you couldn’t trust what you were saying and after it’s said there is no walking it back.

You are right. I agree that time taken to examine her thinking is fully worth it, I can only wish my wife would have done that. Thank you for the patient response.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 2185   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8839142
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hikingout ( member #59504) posted at 7:04 PM on Monday, June 10th, 2024

Well I didn’t feel impatient, so being patient was easy. I was prepared that I would need to explain what I was saying further, you were just first to ask.

7 years of hard work - WS and BS - Reconciled

posts: 7296   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
id 8839144
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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 7:05 PM on Monday, June 10th, 2024

I am only saying get to the bottom of these thoughts. Don’t lob a bunch of terrible shit that now he is questioning himself and what he believes about himself. I think that is cruel, because it makes him believe for whatever period of time he is the problem. You have to be more careful than that.

I agree with this and I'm finding it's kind of a pick and choose what works for you situation here. I appreciate the advice, all of it is really eye opening. When I said "in love" or "love" I meant with the feeling I got with ap. Time does help with that and even from a few days ago, the feeling is lessening. Like I said, I was also coming out of it before we were caught as it wasn't making me feel good anymore and I just wanted to move on. I will say, the fact that we were caught might be a good thing in that it forced me to go to therapy like I should have years ago. I can almost guarantee I would've just kept going the way it was bc the kick in the ass I needed wasn't there. I'm sure I'll think findly of ap here and there for awhile. I still do but it's not with the same intensity.

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8839145
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InkHulk ( member #80400) posted at 7:05 PM on Monday, June 10th, 2024

Ik cheating is cheating but some of those stories were really hard to read.

Ellie, your story is really hard to read. The anguish that you see in those stories, you have created that, don’t fool yourself. Don’t try to think you had a "minor" affair because it is missing some elements that others have. Read those posters in your husband’s voice, that is what is coming. Prepare yourself for it.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 2185   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8839146
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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 7:09 PM on Monday, June 10th, 2024

Ellie, your story is really hard to read. The anguish that you see in those stories, you have created that, don’t fool yourself. Don’t try to think you had a "minor" affair because it is missing some elements that others have. Read those posters in your husband’s voice, that is what is coming. Prepare yourself for it.

Thank you for that. Ik it hurts either way.

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8839148
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InkHulk ( member #80400) posted at 7:18 PM on Monday, June 10th, 2024

Thank you for that. Ik it hurts either way.

That is a very gracious and humble response. You have my respect for that, and all the honesty you have practiced here.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 2185   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8839152
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Wiseoldfool ( member #78413) posted at 8:09 PM on Monday, June 10th, 2024

As gently as I can possibly say this, Ellie, the more you say the more this BH finds you irredeemable as your husband’s wife.

Get professional help asap for your distorted view of reality, starting with your capacity for abject cruelty and ability to (politely) dismiss the truth.

Every secret you keep with your affair partner sustains the affair. Every lie you tell, every misunderstanding you permit, every deflection you pose, every omission you allow sustains the affair.

posts: 346   ·   registered: Mar. 1st, 2021
id 8839162
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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 8:11 PM on Monday, June 10th, 2024

As gently as I can possibly say this, Ellie, the more you say the more this BH finds you irredeemable as your husband’s wife.

Can you elaborate on this?

Get professional help asap for your distorted view of reality, starting with your capacity for abject cruelty and ability to (politely) dismiss the truth.

I'm in therapy

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8839164
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Wiseoldfool ( member #78413) posted at 8:23 PM on Monday, June 10th, 2024

Sure, but you asked for it.

You inflicted celibacy on your husband for years..
You invited a ‘friend" into the lives of your children.
You took advantage of your husband’s trust.
You intentionally pursued a man physically in your home with your children present.
You unleashed your sexual fantasies with this man.
You daydreamed of the AP as a replacement father.
You accused your husband of being abusive, or at least co-signed that allegation made by a therapist.

Now, you come here, and wax dreamily upon days spent lounging in this beautiful man’s arms and defend him against the indefensible.
Now, you come here, and ponder justifications for withholding the truth from your victim, the father of your children.
Now, you come here, and speak of your treachery as if it were justified or some romantic detour that "just happened."

Get your head straight.

You have destroyed your husband as a father, a husband, and a man, he just doesn’t know it yet.

You’re looking for the easy way out, the path where your husband never asks and you never tell.

It’s never going to work.

But enough from me.

You need to become the most devoted acolyte HikingOut ever had.

Every secret you keep with your affair partner sustains the affair. Every lie you tell, every misunderstanding you permit, every deflection you pose, every omission you allow sustains the affair.

posts: 346   ·   registered: Mar. 1st, 2021
id 8839167
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OhItsYou ( member #84125) posted at 8:29 PM on Monday, June 10th, 2024

You’re getting a lot of good advice here. Don’t waste it.
I hope you get what you want/need in your marriage and life. I also hope you really listen when people tell you that even if you do this thing perfectly in every way it will take a LONG time to come out the other side, D or R.

posts: 132   ·   registered: Nov. 10th, 2023   ·   location: Texas
id 8839169
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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 8:57 PM on Monday, June 10th, 2024

You have destroyed your husband as a father, a husband, and a man, he just doesn’t know it yet.

That's tough to read.

I was being honest about the affair and why it happened and how I feel about it. I understand maybe you couldn't reconcile with someone like me as you're reading and honestly there are stories on here where I felt the same way (and maybe mine, too, if I read it objectively) I'm not even sure what I'd do if my husband was the adulterer. But the fact that ppl have gotten through gives me hope. Ik I have a lot more coming to me.

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8839172
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Wiseoldfool ( member #78413) posted at 9:23 PM on Monday, June 10th, 2024

What you did would make it very difficult to reconcile if I were your husband.

How you talk about it now, what you’re prepared to do - or not do - to help him, and how you hope this unfolds is what would make it impossible.

You can’t change what you did.

Maybe you should think long and hard about what you do now.

Every secret you keep with your affair partner sustains the affair. Every lie you tell, every misunderstanding you permit, every deflection you pose, every omission you allow sustains the affair.

posts: 346   ·   registered: Mar. 1st, 2021
id 8839175
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HellIsNotHalfFull ( member #83534) posted at 11:52 PM on Monday, June 10th, 2024

I’m going to chime in off wiseoldfool, he made a damn good point.

First, your A is very similar to my WWs A, including the involvement of kids. WWs AP was divorced because OBS found out, wish she had told me. So like your AP, he had nothing to lose already. I want you to think about that when you think about him in fond terms. Yes you willingly participated, but he still gladly led you down the path of destruction for his own selfish reasons, and he had nothing to lose from it. Hell, we all know a single guy hooking up with a married woman will not even face the same level of social shame that a cheating wife will. If anything he will get kudos. So he really gets away scott free.
Nothing can justify his actions as well. Keeping fond memories, thinking well of AP is a further stab not only in your BHs back, but also your kids. They trusted you and him to be adults, and you both endangered their way of life and security. His relationship with you was more important than their well being. He can cry about missing them, but he had free will and decided harming them was more important.

Just like you, he could have said no, this isn’t right. He could have removed himself from the situation to avoid this, instead he chose to hurt as many people as possible, including yourself.

If my WW ever says anything good about AP I will D here that day. You put your BH in a spot where he was competing in a contest he never agreed to enter and didn’t know the rules. You had sex in his house with AP after denying your BH for 3 years. Did you do it on the martial bed? I know you said you were in separate bedrooms but that doesn’t mean anything.

Start thinking about what that means to your BH. Even if it was only your bed, you need to get rid of it and get a new one. Today. Don’t wait for him to tell you, do it. If you have any mementos of AP they need to be gone now. Again, don’t ask just do it. If you have any special clothes or kinky underwear you bought for AP, you need to tell your BH and get rid of them.

Truthfully if people knew my full story I doubt anyone would even consider R in my situation. There’s a double sting of her continuing the affair and also using my money (I’m the only income), to do things for him in the house I worked my ass of to provide for a family of 7.
One day I may share the full gory details. But I bring this up because I am still in R.
Here were my conditions of R:
Never see AP ever again in any way possible, and all of the "friends" she made (all guys go fig) and knew were also cut off forever.
No more one on one time with men who aren’t family. Forever.
Full transparency to include me having a phone that is a clone of hers, for as long as I need.
No SM apps that are known cheating (telegram, snapchat etc)
Two disclosure letters. One vanilla with just times/places
One that has everything. Every feeling, every song, what happend, how many times did you say I love you, what positions, everything. I read them at my pace.
No more lies, that includes lies by omission. No more hiding things that might get me upset. No more making that choice for me.
Finally, I told her that I will not accept any blame whatsoever, that the problems in our marriage did not create the affair and did not giver her a pass to betray me, and the affair damage will take precedence over all of them.

Your BH doesn’t know what end is up, he has been completely destroyed. He wants to R with you, stop being so damn cruel to him and give him the tools to show you’re willing. If not then just make your exit, and do it in a way that doesn’t rack him across the coals. It is awful that you are still not willing to even make a decision, again you are further digging the knife into him.

Me mid 40s BH
Her 40s STBX WW
3 year EA 1 year PA.
DDAY 1 Feb 2022. DDAY 2 Jun 2022. DDAY 3/4/5/6/7 July 2024
Nothing but abuse and lies and abuse false R for three years. Divorcing and never looking back.

posts: 487   ·   registered: Jun. 26th, 2023   ·   location: U.S.
id 8839190
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HellIsNotHalfFull ( member #83534) posted at 12:13 AM on Tuesday, June 11th, 2024

I wanted to add one more thing. Drop the "I never intended" lines. Not just for your marriage but for you. Intentions don’t mean anything. Actions do. Doesn’t matter what you intended to do, what matters is what happened. Intentions are nothing but made up stories in our head that literally no one else can see, and they mean less than nothing when you do the opposite of your "intentions"

Me mid 40s BH
Her 40s STBX WW
3 year EA 1 year PA.
DDAY 1 Feb 2022. DDAY 2 Jun 2022. DDAY 3/4/5/6/7 July 2024
Nothing but abuse and lies and abuse false R for three years. Divorcing and never looking back.

posts: 487   ·   registered: Jun. 26th, 2023   ·   location: U.S.
id 8839191
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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 3:20 AM on Tuesday, June 11th, 2024

Your BH doesn’t know what end is up, he has been completely destroyed. He wants to R with you, stop being so damn cruel to him and give him the tools to show you’re willing. If not then just make your exit, and do it in a way that doesn’t rack him across the coals. It is awful that you are still not willing to even make a decision, again you are further digging the knife into him.

My decision is to work on my marriage and do what my husband needs me to do. Bc we had so many issues before and it's not a marriage either of us wants to return to, we are starting from the ground up. Neither one of us is closing the door on potential divorce but keeping the door open to trying to make it work. If i sound tentative it's bc ik he could choose to leave sooner than later and i cant do anything about it and that makes me guarded still.

Idk if it was you, but there will be no high 5s for ap. And I do think fondly of him (care about him) now (and I don't need to tell my husband bc that will fade) and I hope that he finds joy in his life again bc I feel responsible for fucking his up. And believe it or not, women get kudos for having sex outside marriage, too

I had therapy today and it was better bc we focused more on me and not my husband. It was more about my issues and not his, which is why I'm there itfp.

[This message edited by Elliebellie at 3:22 AM, Tuesday, June 11th]

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8839196
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