SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I’m starting to think that I’m going to have to put up with someone who uses it as an excuse to treat me like shit.

That's exactly what will happen.

She's learning that her cheating isn't her fault? Younhave nothing to work with her. You can not reconcile with an unremorseful WS.

I wish you the best, but my heart is really with your kids.

Thank you for sharing your memories and story. I am committed to providing the best possible environment for my kids.

I will be doing family counseling for them as soon as the dust settles and I can afford it. Hopefully I CAN afford it.

I do feel that I need to give my spouse a chance, but the leeway that I’m willing to give her is slim to none. She needs to make and effort to rejoin this family completely. If she continues to have major "episodes" or starts to abuse us or treat us poorly in spite of the medication, I will make the call and leave her.

that said, leaving her will not be easy due to how financially and logistically we are entangled and also due to the fact that neither of us have a safety net of any kind. We have been two lost souls swimming in a fishbowl so to speak. Neither of us can easily run from this.

That's exactly what will happen.

She's learning that her cheating isn't her fault? Younhave nothing to work with her. You can not reconcile with an unremorseful WS.

It would seem (based on her words) that she is being taught not to feel bad about what she did while manic.

She’s coming home to a broken husband and traumatized kids though, so I guess we have to see what happens when she comes home.

I really do wish that I could put her up in a studio apartment somewhere for the remainder of our apartment lease and use that time apart to do councelling and to see how serious she is. Lower and Lower-middle class people don’t get to pay their problems away.

Have you been able to speak with any social/case workers? I do believe that releasing her without prepping you would be a terrible mistake.

I know that she has to be treated and reasonably balanced before her release, but to be honest, her total lack of remorse.....let alone concern.....is quite scary. If she is of sound enough mind to 'think' that her actions were not her fault, she should at least be accepting that she has hurt you greatly. Without that, it would be a tough pill for you to swallow.

Have you been able to speak with any social/case workers? I do believe that releasing her without prepping you would be a terrible mistake.

I know that she has to be treated and reasonably balanced before her release, but to be honest, her total lack of remorse.....let alone concern.....is quite scary. If she is of sound enough mind to 'think' that her actions were not her fault, she should at least be accepting that she has hurt you greatly. Without that, it would be a tough pill for you to swallow.

I’ve spoken to her psychiatrist, but it’s usually just about her medication and overall condition. Her psychiatrist seems to think she’s doing well and seems eager to take met medication and "get past this".

I did tell the doctor I am nervous about discharge because she still doesn’t seem to be acting normal in my opinion over the phone. I was just told not to talk about serious topics because the medication hasn’t started work yet anyway.

Other staff have been nice but unhelpful.

My wife does accept that I am hurt and that the kids are traumatized, but she’s acting like she should be considered a victim along with us.

She seems very irritated and impatient whenever the conversation drifts into the affair or topics surrounding it. I’m not sensing the kind of remorse or humility that I would expect from her (or anyone else for that matter).

I realize that she wasn’t in her right mind, and that does make it possible for me to forgive her eventually… but I just can’t accept the idea that she is completely innocent and shouldn’t be expected to bear the weight of guilt and face burden of any consequences.

Plenty of people with Bipolar disorder choose other types of risky behavior that does directly cause irreversible pain to other people like their spouses and children.

I mean, she could have chosen to do literally anything else other than murder or a physical affair and it would have been better than this in my mind. I still feel deep down that she made a choice and that choice hurt me and the girls immensely.

She took a chainsaw to the tree of trust that I had for her and now she’s supremely annoyed that she can’t return to the shade of it.

She thinks that as long as she takes her medicine she should be trusted completely, afforded absolute privacy, and have unlimited access to electronics. She thinks that we should all move along with our happy lives like nothing happened.

The way she is talking to me makes it It feel like she’s expecting me to put effort into winning her back or something.

My oldest daughter is scared about her coming home.

The usual process in most states is for a social worker to talk with you about discharge. If the social worker hasn't talked with you, you need to call the hospital and set up an appointment.

If I were you I’d schedule an appointment with the psychologist if possible for 30 minutes and tell them your concerns. Let them know that if your wife is going to blame this all on her mental state and not take any responsibility for hurting you and her children that reintegration to the family will not go well at all.

Meds only go so far in fixing what was broken. Behavioral changes are required as well. And that includes learning to take responsibility for the awful choices we make.

Hopefully you can get a real appointment with the psychologist and not just a few Minutes in a hallway to discuss.

There was no way to talk to her psychiatrist in person.

Over the phone I was basically told that I would be able to pick her up after she was discharged and that’s was all. No meetings with doctors or social workers with my involvement.

Not sure if that is how it always is or if that was at her request.

She was really antsy and jittery in the car and she got mad when I suggested maybe she get decaf instead of regular coffee.

Somehow we slipped into argument and I did yell a bit and said some things in an insensitive way. It was definitely too soon, but I want closure so bad.

She says she is sorry and wants to make it work, but she is being really argumentative and defensive still.

I understand that mental illness plays into this and that getting arrested and going to a mental hospital were both traumatizing for her, but I also feel like she’s still not having any humility with me after what she’s done. I’m not seeing or hearing a lot of remorse other than her saying she remorseful.

She keeps getting mad at me for everything and just keeps arguing and arguing. I would never expect my wife of ten years to treat me like this after doing something so horrible. It’s unfathomable.

I can’t stop breaking down crying. I feel like she’s stomping on me and stabbing me.

She keeps blame switching and bringing up things that are bad about me in the relationship.

Then when I’m upset she doesn’t understand.

I’m not saying that I don’t want to work on my issues, but I just feel like there are bigger fish to fry. I don’t appreciate the diversions and blame shifting.

She keeps getting mad and telling me I’m making her feel powerless but I’m the one who feels like all their power is robbed of them.

She’s the only one who can fix this relationship and that hurts me so bad to know. I feel like I’m being teased and toyed with.

The only thing I can do within my power is to leave her but that would be so hard and she knows I want to reconcile so she isn’t afraid of it.

I have to get stronger. I shouldn’t be afraid of leaving her and taking the kids. I’m not gonna keep doing the pick me dance. I’m not going to be able to drag her through the process.

I need advice about how to get stronger.

I feel so broken and incapable.

[This message edited by MilahsRealHusband at 12:33 AM, Tuesday, October 17th]

Dear MRH, you have the strength to do what you feel is right and make the change for you and your kids. You need time to organise things as well as you can in house or out of house. Do not hesitate to prioritize your and kids needs first. Your W is crazy and not in the position to influence your actions. She can't do you much more harm if you don't allow that.

Then when I’m upset she doesn’t understand.

Sure she doesn't, shes crazy. Not to be treated as a subject with its opinions.

My friend had an psychotic episode 3y ago and though she was very caucious in terms of relationships before, she ended up having several 'exotic' passport hunters as online lovers. She was kept 3 months in hospital and it took her about 1,5y to be able to pretend to act like a halfway normal human. Before she was a math genius and played half of Chopin without notes. I was giving her English lessons for free and she played for us.

Bortom line- your W is out of the equation, don't count her in in anything importand including your feelings. You must be in charge of whatever happens.

[This message edited by Potentialforevil at 2:06 AM, Tuesday, October 17th]

I'll add that during the episode my friend ruined her parents apartament and went into a fight with her father, who just wanted to hold her down. Later, already from the hospital, she sent pictures of her bruises on social media and wrote walls of text about how he is beating her up. In a normal mindset she loves her father and respects him.

I just wanted to point out that probably your wife loves you, but is VERY unwell. Try to reconcile that.

[This message edited by Potentialforevil at 2:03 AM, Tuesday, October 17th]

I have to get stronger. I shouldn’t be afraid of leaving her and taking the kids. I’m not gonna keep doing the pick me dance. I’m not going to be able to drag her through the process.

I need advice about how to get stronger.

I feel so broken and incapable.

Warning— tough love ahead.

In terms of getting stronger, perhaps you need to think of it this way— if you keep your kids in a tense, stressful environment with lots of arguing and resentment (even if you think you’re hiding it, they know), you now become complicit in their trauma and abuse. You are not longer a victim but a co-conspirator in the trauma your children are exposed to every day.

I have so much empathy for you, but as others have said, much more for your poor babies. They don’t have adult brains to intake, process, sort, and make sense of all of the information and things happening. They just EXPERIENCE it rushing into their nervous systems, and draw conclusions about the world and about safety and about relationships. They will be mentally managing the mess of the last few months for many, many years. They have learned all the wrong things about being in relationship. It’s time to protect them.

If your insurance doesn’t cover therapy for the kiddos, call local non profits and ask about sliding scales. Depending on your state, you may be eligible for supplemental state health insurance. If your insurance covered your wife’s inpatient stay, it should also cover therapy. I imagine you’ve met any deductible you may have with the hospitalizations.

I know it’s so hard, but you need to completely disengage from your wife, let her do what she wants (your marriage IS over, per her words and actions), and take care of the innocent babies.

Keep your home clean, give your daughters a routine that helps them get to school on time every day, reach out to their school mental health staff to further support them, and find them both INDIVIDUAL therapy on top of the family therapy you mentioned. It cannot wait. Your therapy cannot wait either. Your girls need you to be okay.

Please trust all of us telling you to stop focusing on giving your wife rules she has made clear she won’t follow, and instead throw all of that energy into salvaging the childhoods of your daughters, even if it means filing bankruptcy and starting all over.

We all know this is awful. We’ve lived it and it’s the absolute worst. But you can’t continue to throw your hands in the air and say there are no options to extricate yourself. At least make the calls and get the information. Call around about free legal aid. Figure out what it would take for your to file bankruptcy and what next steps would be. Get the info you need to make informed choices that help your babies. You can do this! Your children’s long and short term happiness and feelings of safety truly depend on it.

I am so sorry you’re going through this situation. I understand how frustrating and scary it most be to see what a drastic change you’ve seen on your WS. I admire the fact that you are willing to give your WS another chance, even after seeing all the messages. I am on a similar situation with my WH engaging in an emotional affair with someone online, I never saw the messages and I always wonder if seeing them would make me feel better about my decision of splitting and it would give me a sense of relief just knowing what was said and what was being exchange or if it would hurt me even further like everyone else have told me. But I just have this need to know… I want to know what he is telling her I don’t know why I’m so obsessed about it. Any insights you can give me? Advise? Thank you for sharing.

MRH:

Have you read that great book you bought ("How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair")? Read it yourself so that you will have a better understanding of what to look for - eventually - in her behavior to suggest she is becoming a safe partner. You will find it very educational and reassuring. I wrote in the margins as I read it and then gave it to my WH with a two-day deadline to read it and then come talk to me. He took it seriously and stopped his rug-sweeping and it gave us a chance to re-build. Your wife is not yet in a mental state to process it, but DO read it yourself if you have not already; it will give you confidence about how YOU need to proceed to protect your family.

My best to you as you navigate this terrible road.

Odonna

MRH:

Have you read that great book you bought ("How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair")? Read it yourself so that you will have a better understanding of what to look for - eventually - in her behavior to suggest she is becoming a safe partner. You will find it very educational and reassuring. I wrote in the margins as I read it and then gave it to my WH with a two-day deadline to read it and then come talk to me. He took it seriously and stopped his rug-sweeping and it gave us a chance to re-build. Your wife is not yet in a mental state to process it, but DO read it yourself if you have not already; it will give you confidence about how YOU need to proceed to protect your family.

My best to you as you navigate this terrible road.

Odonna

Thank you and yes, I listened to the audiobook before buying a physical copy to present.

Things are definitely slow going with lots of ups and downs.

I read the book before XWH did. I found it a good starting point. It's easy to read, which is important. My XWH was not able to do the work to be a safe partner.

As a contest, my younger sister was diagnosed as bipolar. She never cheated but her XWH did.

Hi

Just have a minute but wanted to ask if you have inquired about a halfway house? Call the hospital as many times as it takes to speak to a social worker. Ask about 1. Medicaid (assuming you are in the US)...she has a mental disability, 2. SSA assistance for a disability, 3 halfway house.

Your wife is not in a place where she should be around the kids and definitely not around you. She refuses to cooperate, stays angry, hostile and resentful and will not listen to any form of reason. She takes no responsibility for anything. Staying with her will be too stressful for both of you and will likely cause another breakdown.

A lot has happened since my last post.

Some good and some bad. Most all of it sad or ultimately bad news.

I’ll write it in two sections since it takes a lot out of me to write these things. It makes me upset and sad. I feel so powerless and I’m crushed.

Incident 1: little lies preventing me from trusting her like she seems to think she deserves.

I took a week off work to help my wife settle back into the household. I didn’t feel 100% sure that it was safe for me and the kids, but we really don’t have other options. And frankly I have been hopeful that she will come back and rebuild our broken relationship while working on her mental health. She is the mother of my kids and I do love her. I have been ready to take on more responsibilities and support her so long as she makes an effort to be honest, transparent, and show respect to herself, myself, and the kids. I expected good days and bad days, but perhaps I didn’t fully understand how this illness works.

We are not in a financial situation that allows us to do this any other way and we have no external support aside from occasional phone calls from family members.

Anyway, the incident started maybe a day or two after she got out of the hospital. All her cards got lost prior to getting caught in the affair (likely lost her wallet due to lack of sleep and mania) and I cancelled my credit card that she usually had while she was acting crazy before the hospitalization because I was afraid she would kidnap the kids or buy a something expensive. Anyway, I gave her $40 to have some pocket money. I took her to CVS with me while I tried to refill one of my own medications.

I didn’t think of it in the moment, but she did lag behind when I was walking into the store. She said she had important things to buy.

After talking to the pharmacist, I turn the aisle to find her texting someone and quickly hiding it. I ask her who she’s texting and she lies saying she is comparing the prices of lipstick in the aisle with Amazon prices. She grabs one randomly, a share she’d never wear. I told her I saw her texting and she denies it. I see the lipstick is $14 and say you don’t need that expensive lipstick. She tells me it’s really cheap, like $3. I get pissed and storm out of the store. She comes out like 30 minutes later and has bought a basket full of expensive snacks and garbage.

She tells me that she was texting a girl from the mental hospital and hid it because she had called her a few minutes before and asked if a male patient from the facility could get my wife’s phone number. I asked for her phone and I did see a message (deleted) from my wife saying she didn’t want to give out her phone number. I believed her and could understand how her fears of me freaking out would motivate her to hide the interaction. I wasn’t happy that she lied, but I accepted it because I could see that she did refuse the dudes advance.

She said they were all trying to link il to start some kind of support group. I tried to tell her that it didn’t seem good to stay connected to people from that facility, but she got irate and told me I wasn’t allowed to stop her from talking to them. They were her buddies and they went through it all together and I had no right to stop her from seeking support through them. I would later find out that they were all forbidden from exchanging numbers in the first place. I didn’t think about it at the time, but I realize how stupid it would be to let a big group of mentally ill patients link up and "support each other" unsupervised. Super dangerous.

After that incident we had our ups and downs with some seriously painful arguments. I’m not good at disengaging and giving she space to cool off when she is acting aggressive or extremely irritable. I have abandonment issues and I I always want to seek closure immediately otherwise I will sit around scare and paranoid until a resolution is found. I have a bad habit of following her around like a puppy dog trying to smooth things over and then she says hurt ful things about me or starts acting like am there’s no hope because she is a bad person and I always take the bait and start disagreeing with her and it turns into a full-blown argument.

I know it’s really bad but these arguments and hostile interactions have been happening in front of the kids. I understand that as the more mentally sound person, I should be doing a better job of not exposing them. They see her treating me poorly and lashing out at me for no reason. They see her say mean things to me and there’s no way they haven’t seen her aggressive and hostile body language and the soul-less angry eyes that seem to accompany her mania.

It’s so hard to see her flip into mom mode and act like everything is peachy whenever the kids approach her. While she is emotionally manipulating and essentially abusing me. I can’t figure out if she is actually flipping into mom mode or if it’s all just an act with them.

If she is actually flipping into mom mode, it makes me sad that she doesn’t seem to be able to flip back into wife mode. She has cheated on me at least once and I am still grieving from that trauma and she barely almowledges it unless I basically wear her down and beg her. The only time she acknowledges me is when I finally break down into a puddle and cry my eyes out. Any other time and we have to battle it out. I know that she is mental ill, but I can’t do it much longer: She says she wants to make it work but all of her actions say otherwise. I’m hurting so bad inside.

Anyway, in spite of the conflicts, we resumed our religious marriage and started making love again. I’ve been super self conscious about the possibility of her not being sexually satisfied so I’ve been going above and beyond in the bedroom and trying to do things I normally don’t like much. She initially seemed to calm down and get more affectionate. I thought maybe this was the missing puzzle piece that would help us connect again. I’ve also been super sexually frustrated for at least a few months (I realize everything stopped mostly while she was having the affair), so it was honestly nice for me to be able to blow off steam. I am still attracted to her and it’s not easy living in the same house as strangers with the woman you are accustomed to sleeping with regularly.

As part of the religious reinstatement of our marriage, she agreed to the restrictions on her access to electronic devices and social media apps. Her father was a witness over the phone to this.

There have been a few times where I have gotten suspicious or nervous and I have asked to see her phone randomly. She has always complied but she is often extremely irritated and angry at me. She acts like a grounded and angry teenage girl who can’t go to the prom or something. After a few seconds she will come over and hover over what I am doing and start bitching about it saying "I thought you were only going to do this or that, not check all of that or this and so on!" "What are you looking for, there’s nothing there!" "did you find it yet!" After a while of silence she gets nervous and starts genuinely pleading to know if I found anything. It makes things so much more tense.

She’s really not a good liar and she’s not good at hiding things. The only reason I didn’t catch her before this was because I trusted her and was not suspicious. She’s really not used to being under my watchful eye.

Anyway, a few days ago I was looking through her phone that I found on the dresser randomly. I was looking at her open tabs and browsing history and I saw she conducted a weird Google search: Berry truck driver (our state). When I clicked the back button on the browser, I could see she had googled a phone number that showed up with nothing but indicated it was from another state. She turned the corner and saw me on her phone and sort of just dismissed it, but I immediately asked her: "who is Barry?

She played dumb for a minute… "what do you mean""what?" "Who?" And so I told her I saw her Google search and then her face changed. She got angry and weird. After some stuttering, she told me it was a weird man from the facility who was too smart for the staff. He was causing all kinds of problems and accusing them of malpractice and that they had to transfer him to the VA. She said he told everyone he was a truck driver, a pilot, and a private investigator. She was simply googling him out of curiosity.

I asked her point blank if this was the person who was trying to call her and she told me no. I asked again and she reassured me that it wasn’t the same person at all. The man who had been trying to contact her was just some nice man in the facility who had a wife and children. I accepted it for the time but I was stressed the heck out.

The topic bothered me and I sort of remembered something about the deleted text message that I saw from the pharmacy. I thought maybe the girl had mentioned the name of the man who was trying to contact my wife. I don’t know if it was the same day or a different day, but I eventually got her phone again and Sure enough the man’s name was Barry.

So now I’m assuming the worst and terrified that my wife had been sleeping with or initiating romantic interactions with a male patient. Even worse if he was some crazy guy who needed to be transferred to the VA hospital for outsmarting the psych ward at my wife’s hospital. Of course she swears it was nothing and I have no way to know what that was all about really. She got upset and said that Barry was just a normal guy from the hospital, not a crazy guy and that she had lied to cover because (again) she was afraid of me flipping out or getting paranoid. If she’s being honest, she’s is doing a horrible job at preventing triggers. She swears the facility was too well monitored for any sexual activity and he was just a normal nice guy in her group sessions. She can’t recall if he was married or had kids like she previously said. Seems suspicious.

Of course I Google the topic and find that there are lots of credible research articles about lax restrictions in mental hospitals around the country and that patients having sex with each other and with staff members is a serious problem that plagues many facilities. Seems extreme, but during my worst moments, I’ve thought about getting a STD test done for peace of mind.

It doesn’t help that when I rummaged through her stuff from the facility, I glanced in her group work books and found that pretty much after the first day or two she wasn’t participating. She wrote a reflection about how she hurt her family and did a few worksheets about how she wants to see her kids, but she never mentioned me at all. Presumably she was sharing her writings with her group sessions and it hurts me to think she may have hid or downplayed the fact that she was married.

Prior to her hospitalization, she was telling her AP and her father and the police and pretty much everyone else lots of untrue things about me. She was telling them that I "couldn’t stop laying hands on her" and that I had hit her and beat her in the past. We’ve had a few mutually aggressive scuffles years and years ago, but I’ve never been a wife beater and I was certainly not an abuser to her.

I’m worried that she wasn’t being honest in the facility and allowed herself to continue the manic fantasy… I’m worried that she baited some poor mentally ill truck driver to fall in love with her and want to rescue her after their hospitalization. I’m worried that she thought about contacting him and running off.

Her lack of honesty and transparency is causing me to have all kinds of crazy thoughts and it’s almost like she enjoys making me this way. I can’t explain it but I’m starting to feel manipulated.

[This message edited by MilahsRealHusband at 3:06 PM, Friday, October 27th]

I am sorry you and your children are going through this. I can totally empathise as my WH had PTSD, starred and affair and I was his trigger so anytime I was near him he thought I was trying to hurt or kill him and his AP was some Saint when actually she was a nasty piece of work that logged false accusations against men after abusing them.

The illness doesn't make it OK and what she has put you through is real. Her illness may make her do certain things or see things in a way she wouldn't if well but this has had a wide reaching effect on both you and your children and you cannot just ignore that.

I am afraid I don't have any answers as I am struggling myself over a year later. I did find CBT very helpful and focusing on me.

You need to heal you and your children. Explain to them in simple terms that their mum is unwell and in hospital. You understand they have witnessed and been exposed to some not very nice things but that you are there for them and the doctors will help their mum get better. They don't need to know about an affair. If the marriage is over they can be told that sometime parents who lobed each other can't live together anymore etc but for now just keep it to the fact their mum if poorly and needs help to get better.

Allow yourself to grieve. You will go through anger, denial acceptance and a whole other range of emotions and states and that's OK. Look after you and your children and tackle the marriage when you need to. It's not for you to make her better

Sorry I just saw your update so ignore the wife in hospital bits.

She won't paint you in a nice light as she is looking for justification to her behaviour and to avoid being the "bad one" in the situation. You are putting a lot of effort into seeing what she is doing only to be let down. I say this with kindness and as someone that learnt the hard way but stop.

Looking through her phone won't bring you peace. Trying to piece together what is actually going on also won't bring you peace. You have snippets of information and naturally your brain is trying to make sense.of it but you are prolonging your suffering. She needs to prove to you that she can be trusted if there is to be reconciliation and right now she has proven she can't be. Take a step back. Focus on you and you alone. Banish all thoughts of what she is upto as they enter your head. I believe my therapist called it "sitting with uncertainty". The first few days are awful but after a while you start to feel much better as you stop seeking reassurance.

DDB,

Thank you for your kind words and encouragement.

They don't need to know about an affair

Sadly I made a mistake and told them she was cheating with an internet boyfriend and showing him her body during an argument that occurred before my wife was sent to the hospital. She was in the peak of her mania and I didn’t realize she was mentally ill. She was maniacally smiling every time I would bring up her sneaking and lying and she was laughing at my suffering. In general, she was treating me like a pathetic loser while actively manipulating me and gaslighting me. I was very hurt and I wasn’t thinking straight after two days of no sleep. I wish I had video of her behavior because she seems to think it happened differently. Her face still haunts me and it’s the face that keeps squeaking out during these arguments.

So yes, I told the kids one time on a bad morning in a fit of rage… but she has not done a good job of hiding it either.

My oldest daughter (7yo and very very smart) spoke with me while my wife was in the hospital and asked about the screenname that my wife was using on Discord. She told me that she has seen her mom talking to someone in that app with the black background using that name. She asked if that was the name mama used to talk to that man. I told her the truth without details. She told me that she saw her mom sending pictures, chatting and having phone calls with that person for a long time.

My wife left out a book that had the word affair on it (still hasn’t read it btw). My oldest daughter must have found it and asked me if an affair was the same as cheating.

Our youngest daughter has asked me why mama hates me now and asked if mama was going to leave us to get married to the man she showed her boobies to on her phone.

Since my wife has been in the hospital, I have framed it as mental illness and told them that her brain is producing too many chemicals and it made her act like she was drunk. I tried to explain that while she is responsible for her actions at the end of the day, we can forgive her because unlike alcohol she didn’t choose to freely that way. They seemed to understand, but the continuously erratic behavior coming out of my wife definitely triggers them and starts the whole trauma cycle all over again.

Not sure how to navigate it beyond that. I am a firm believer in not lying to my kids about adult stuff. When I was a kid I understood a lot more about my own parents divorce and things that were happening in my moms relationship with my abusive and mentally ill stepfather than anyone gave me credit for and it really hurt me and bothered me to be told that I couldn’t understand things until I was older. It’s not nice to be a kid who wants to talk about things but can’t because the adults prefer to pretend you simply can’t understand anything as a way of avoiding the topic.

My wife would clearly prefer to pretend that the kids can’t understand what is happening. Hence the "flipping into happy mom mode" that I mentioned earlier.

[This message edited by MilahsRealHusband at 5:19 PM, Friday, October 27th]