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Newest Member: PeanutButterPixels

Just Found Out :
After 15 years of marriage back in the same swamp

Topic is Sleeping.
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 wolfhowl (original poster new member #83736) posted at 2:19 PM on Friday, September 1st, 2023

Thank you GIRLS!!! that you are here for me, at a time when it seem and feels that you are all alone and lonely!!! Thank you that you are not indifferent!

I'm pretty sure there was nothing physical between my H and AP. It is more like for AP - compensation for the lack of male attention (her H cheating, ego boost and who knows what more). For my H is more ego boost, compensation for his complexes and lack of self-confidence. He is telling as well "escape from reality a little bit", problems at work, stress. But in general he (my H) does not know what drives him. My H words - he doesn't want this "shit" anymore. And he can't imagine life without me, he says this is his biggest nightmare. He went to the doctor with this problem. He begins a course with a psychiatrist. He clearly has some kind of constant need for self-affirmation as a man, that he is interesting and attractive. I don't know if it's related to me or his inner fears, his past or all together. Some problems with self esteem, and physical intimacy on the part of my H. For my H feels like A is more for emotional confidence or an ego boost - which is what he finds in the market. After all, we all like to feel that we are attractive, may be that is his drive ... or I completely lost touch with reality.

You fall, you rise, you make mistakes, you live, you learn.

posts: 15   ·   registered: Aug. 16th, 2023   ·   location: Switzerland
id 8806162
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Catwoman ( member #1330) posted at 2:33 PM on Friday, September 1st, 2023

Validation (also known as "ego kibbles") is a very powerful driver, and it's one of the many components of an affair (either physical or emotional or both).

Many people who seek outside validation or validation from unhealthy sources have self-esteem issues. Instead of learning to self-validate or seek validation in healthy relationships, hobbies or career, these people seek out the cheap and easy. Oftne they affair "down" to make themselves even more inflated. The person isn't necessarily important--it's the hit of ego kibbles that they desire.

Often the WS has become immune to the charms and strong points of their partner, or perhaps they feel inferior to their partner, so they seek out someone who is in a ways inferior to them to boost the strength of the ego kibbles.

In short, it's not about you. It's them and their piss-poor coping mechanisms and poor self-esteem. This is what takes the most effort in therapy.

Cat

FBS: Married 20 years, 2 daughters 27 and 24. Divorced by the grace of GOD.
D-Days: 2/23/93; 10/11/97; 3/5/03
Ex & OW Broke up 12-10
"An erection does not count as personal growth."

posts: 33182   ·   registered: Apr. 5th, 2003   ·   location: Ohio
id 8806176
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Superesse ( member #60731) posted at 2:46 PM on Friday, September 1st, 2023

Catwoman said something that I think applies to you: he seeks out attention like this to boost his male ego, because he in some way feels inferior to you!

My XWH was like that. Maybe my current WH was like that, too. We all have insecurities. The part I see is how they seem to need to have one foot "outside" the marriage by keeping secrets, as others have also said.

If you saw specific sexual texts, I'm sorry to say that most likely, there was some physical contact. People can be attracted and have a crush on people and not "go there" in their communications. (The more I admire a man, the more I would be super careful not to send him the wrong idea.)

It is hard.

posts: 2047   ·   registered: Sep. 22nd, 2017   ·   location: Washington D C area
id 8806192
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 wolfhowl (original poster new member #83736) posted at 2:52 PM on Friday, September 1st, 2023

Thank you for your messages Dear Cat and Superesse - I appreciate it!!! Your words Cat are most like reality. My husband has a very low self-esteem, it is felt in many ways. And I worked hard to raise his self-esteem for a long time, probably not very successful. I know that no one will tell me exactly where my correct decision is. It is like your favourite suitcase - that's very (extremely) heavy to carry, but in many ways it's so wonderful and very hard to throw away.

You fall, you rise, you make mistakes, you live, you learn.

posts: 15   ·   registered: Aug. 16th, 2023   ·   location: Switzerland
id 8806197
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 wolfhowl (original poster new member #83736) posted at 3:02 PM on Friday, September 1st, 2023

My XWH was like that. Maybe my current WH was like that, too. We all have insecurities. The part I see is how they seem to need to have one foot "outside" the marriage by keeping secrets, as others have also said.

That is what I feel Superesse! But what that means "your current WH was like that?" Did he change?
You are absolutely right, we all gave insecurities. We all know each others strengths and weaknesses. Did you manage to change your WH, or correct… or to change your opinion, reaction about it? How do you deal with it?

You fall, you rise, you make mistakes, you live, you learn.

posts: 15   ·   registered: Aug. 16th, 2023   ·   location: Switzerland
id 8806211
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 wolfhowl (original poster new member #83736) posted at 3:05 PM on Friday, September 1st, 2023

Catwoman said something that I think applies to you: he seeks out attention like this to boost his male ego, because he in some way feels inferior to you![\QUOTE]

That can be true and play a big role in his A. But what should I do with that?

You fall, you rise, you make mistakes, you live, you learn.

posts: 15   ·   registered: Aug. 16th, 2023   ·   location: Switzerland
id 8806219
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Superesse ( member #60731) posted at 3:17 PM on Friday, September 1st, 2023

Wolfhowl, for me and for the laws of the state where we live, it would make a big difference if my husband was just talking to other women about sexual subjects versus if he dated them and actually got undressed. (My WH was arrested in a prostitution sting only after the hidden camera saw him hand the "girl" cash, sit on the bed in the motel room, and take off his pants. That was "intent" and secured his conviction.)

Yes, it is all cheating but the law draws the line at getting physical, for what that may be worth you really knowing. If your H's secret life hasn't progressed to outright physical betrayal of your marriage vows, I'd say based on so many stories here, yours would be the rare case, but if he hasn't physically betrayed his vows, you would at least have been spared the worries most of us have had to deal with about diseases and everything.

The problem is, you'd still have a cheating husband, so you would still be in this situation.

Hope this helps you sort it out in some way.

posts: 2047   ·   registered: Sep. 22nd, 2017   ·   location: Washington D C area
id 8806231
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Superesse ( member #60731) posted at 3:31 PM on Friday, September 1st, 2023

Sorry I was writing my post as you were asking me questions! So, I am one of the small number people on here who did not R or D but continue to live in a self-inflicted Limbo with a man who has so many deep-seated problems that I will never be able to trust him 100% again (multiple betrayals 12 years after the first one, like your story). But I don't currently think he is acting out his deep-seated selfish, hurtful tendencies, so I said "was;" yet tomorrow, all that might change. Been there, done that, got the legal separation papers to prove it!

Best thing I could tell you right now is for you to follow exactly the advice of Tushnurse!

posts: 2047   ·   registered: Sep. 22nd, 2017   ·   location: Washington D C area
id 8806245
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Catwoman ( member #1330) posted at 3:54 PM on Friday, September 1st, 2023

he seeks out attention like this to boost his male ego, because he in some way feels inferior to you!

That can be true and play a big role in his A. But what should I do with that?

Problem is, this isn't your problem to solve. It is *his* problem to solve, and he will need considerable help in solving it--lots of IC, a raising of his own self-awareness so that he understand why he feels as he does and develops healthy coping mechanisms to deal with the same.

Sadly, most people who use others as their own personal ego kibbles bucket don't take the time and effort to understand what is behind the attraction to ego kibbles and what they can do as an alternate coping mechanism.

You need to stop thinking that anything you can do is going to resolve this situation. *ALL* of us could be better partners, but we didn't cause this situation, and we can't solve this situation. You can't treat the marriage until you have a healthy partner coming to the marriage. He's not a healthy partner now, and he's going to have to put in considerable effort to become one. That circles back to my question of "What is going to be different this time?"

One thing that may have been suggested is to blow this little arrangement out of the water by telling her husband. It may or may not be true he is cheating (you wouldn't believe the people who use this excuse for their own behavior) or that their marriage is rocky (ditto, plus being in a "bad marriage" brings out the KISA in your husband). But he deserves to know that his wife is spending emotional energy (at least) on someone else.

Cat

FBS: Married 20 years, 2 daughters 27 and 24. Divorced by the grace of GOD.
D-Days: 2/23/93; 10/11/97; 3/5/03
Ex & OW Broke up 12-10
"An erection does not count as personal growth."

posts: 33182   ·   registered: Apr. 5th, 2003   ·   location: Ohio
id 8806260
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 wolfhowl (original poster new member #83736) posted at 6:59 AM on Saturday, September 2nd, 2023

I am really sorry dear Superesse to hear your story.
Thank you dear Cat for your advice.

… of course every life, every case is unique. But in the end, we are all united by a state of unhappiness, fear, embarrassment, disappointment and a full range of negative emotions that poison every day, if not a moment of our lives.

Probably all this eats and absorbs me. My H and I agreed that the message he and I sent to the AP would be the last. He asks not to return to this anymore, to draw a line, he no longer wants to have contact with her, and I force him to write to her.(AP) I force him to contact his AP and write how everything about it is wrong . It exhausts my H, me too. My H says that I just want to take revenge ... or maybe I really want it. So that the person who brought misery to my family does not leave this with clean hands. Am I bad? Is that so wrong? My H asked and I agreed not to write to his AP anymore. He said that he no longer wants to have any contact with her, and I continue to drag him there again.

There is probably no perfect solution for what to do to feel better. My H says that if I leave and find another there is no guarantee that he will be "clean" and looking deeper into the world is also my doubt.

He works on himself, contact a psychiatrist (on vacation right now) and promises that this will never happen again - and he knows it for sure.

For sure I doubt and the details of my H adventures eat me up, every day, every minute. Every day I ask my H about the details of former contacts and especially the last and often the whole day in messages like ping pong. He says that it is very exhausting and he needs a break, that he cannot continue interrogations and accusations against him 24/7. I understand this - but I can't cope yet ... all this is exhausting me too. Life has become a vicious circle. Everything else became irrelevant. It is difficult to find motivation to do simple household chores or read a book - everything in your thoughts returns to pain, misunderstanding from betrayal.

"Healthy " man, "healthy" relationship - it can be a reality at all??? it exists at all??? Anybody has seen it???
Or life is a constant struggle with demons? where more obvious, where less ..

You fall, you rise, you make mistakes, you live, you learn.

posts: 15   ·   registered: Aug. 16th, 2023   ·   location: Switzerland
id 8806331
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 3:28 PM on Saturday, September 2nd, 2023

Gently, it looks to me like your WS is in denial. He can learn to validate himself, to fill up his own emptiness. That will cure him. But that also takes lots of work.

What is he doing with his shrink? Psychiatrists usually prescribe meds. Learning to validate oneself takes a lot of work to figure out how to do that, which means effective talk therapy. Is your H working with a therapist? Does this psychiatrist do talk therapy?

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 29891   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8806346
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Superesse ( member #60731) posted at 3:31 PM on Saturday, September 2nd, 2023

Wolfhowl, you are going through a trauma, and it is totally normal to need to ask and ask, much as the WS hates the constant reminders. I used to wake my SAWH up at 2 am when I'd need to know another piece of the mystery of "who I really was married to!" And that is often when he'd be too tired to make up stories, so I learned a lot. But sorry it really is a miserable time. I think Tushnurse suggested you finding a trauma-informed therapist for your self. Sorry the psychiatrist he contacted is away.

posts: 2047   ·   registered: Sep. 22nd, 2017   ·   location: Washington D C area
id 8806348
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 wolfhowl (original poster new member #83736) posted at 8:32 AM on Sunday, September 3rd, 2023

The psychiatrist is on vacation until October, so my H can't get to him right now…. I would love answers and solution right now to stop this nightmare… but I don’t think it’s possible… I wish …

I am constantly tormented by another fundamental question ... If ideal relationships exist in general? "Healthy" relationship? I haven’t met them… have any of you met?

In one period of my life, when my H had another circle of betrayals, I ended up in the hospital with depression. I visited a psychiatrist for a long time. It turned out that I am a perfectionist and always strive for the unattainable. I strive for high standards and set the same requirements for my family. Life is not perfect, people are not perfect, and we are a complex, a bunch of our own cockroaches that we need to cope with and live with. Maybe I idealize family life too much? Maybe I've seen to many movies and read too many beautiful stories without black spots and I expect / demand this from my own family, my own husband? But in real life this does not happen ... Maybe all my disappointments are from the fact that I initially set the bar too high?

In search of answers for myself, trying to extinguish the pain, I got here ... Like we all ... We all suffer and go through torment, but each one in his own hell.

Respectively I asks the question ... maybe a "healthy" husband, a "healthy" family does not exist at all ?... and in every family, in every person there are their own black spots? and in this case, we just need to coordinate correctly, make the best of the situation but not wait and expect for the "ideal" ...

To every tormented soul who reads this now - a little heart from me - you are not alone! you are unique! And I wish that as many smiles as possible from pleasant moments shine on your face!

You fall, you rise, you make mistakes, you live, you learn.

posts: 15   ·   registered: Aug. 16th, 2023   ·   location: Switzerland
id 8806391
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Superesse ( member #60731) posted at 5:00 AM on Monday, September 11th, 2023

Wolfhowl, I am wondering if you are finding some peace? I too wonder if any happy marriages exist, some friends in their late 70's tell me they don't really hear of any happy marriages. But that may be due to aging issues, I wonder about that. How are you doing?

posts: 2047   ·   registered: Sep. 22nd, 2017   ·   location: Washington D C area
id 8807294
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 wolfhowl (original poster new member #83736) posted at 2:50 PM on Monday, September 11th, 2023

Thank you Superesse for remembering me... it’s so sweet of you...
No, I didn’t find peace. Even 1.5 monthsafter DDay the pain did not decrease. Not a day goes by without tears. No matter what I do, I can’t even temporarily get it out of my head. I wash my hair and don't remember if I applied shampoo once or twice. Everything happens automatically. I constantly hold back tears so as not to show my pain in my family or in public.
But I have already agreed on the date of my first visit to a psychologist for couples therapy, unfortunately all the specialists are very busy at the moment, which shows how many people suffer behind closed doors, what we don’t see and the number is only increasing... I’m very sorry... I have not met a single family without problems, truly happy, at least constantly... I always think how many misfortunes people have in life, maybe my problems seem unbearable. But there are people who would argue with me... Maybe ideals do not exist. Maybe overcoming "suffering" is life. I don’t know what to think… I am struggling and suffering…

By all means, marry. If you get a good wife, you'll become happy; if you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.
Socrates

Your friends are people with experience... and they have not met truly happy families without problems...
My H constantly repeats, but if you leave me and find someone else, where is the guarantee that he will not betray you or will be better than me... and maybe even worse and it’s true - Where!?

You fall, you rise, you make mistakes, you live, you learn.

posts: 15   ·   registered: Aug. 16th, 2023   ·   location: Switzerland
id 8807317
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Catwoman ( member #1330) posted at 8:50 PM on Monday, September 11th, 2023

My H constantly repeats, but if you leave me and find someone else, where is the guarantee that he will not betray you or will be better than me... and maybe even worse and it’s true - Where!?

He's using this to control you. Recognize it for what it is.

I do believe there are healthy relationships and marriages. I've been with my SO for 13-plus years. We don't live together, and it's been a bit of a challenge now that he is retired and I am not (11 year age gap). But I will say this--I'm happier without my WS than I was with him. I was always a mess around him because he wanted me unsettled and hurt. It made him feel good about himself. We didn't divorce because there were three people in the relationship--we divorced because there was just ONE person in the relationship.

He broke up with the OW, had several relationships that didn't work and is now remarried. He's still the same, so I can't imagine what it is like in their house. But you know what--I truly don't care.

Cat

FBS: Married 20 years, 2 daughters 27 and 24. Divorced by the grace of GOD.
D-Days: 2/23/93; 10/11/97; 3/5/03
Ex & OW Broke up 12-10
"An erection does not count as personal growth."

posts: 33182   ·   registered: Apr. 5th, 2003   ·   location: Ohio
id 8807382
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 wolfhowl (original poster new member #83736) posted at 2:54 PM on Tuesday, September 12th, 2023

Dear Cat
Thank you for your message. It’s actually nice to read that you have found your happiness and live in greater harmony than in a previous relationship... it’s good to see people that believe in a happy marriage… it’s important… thank you for sharing, really gives a hope 💖

You fall, you rise, you make mistakes, you live, you learn.

posts: 15   ·   registered: Aug. 16th, 2023   ·   location: Switzerland
id 8807474
Topic is Sleeping.
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