SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi, again. I don't post often, but SI is the only place I can come for advice on a situation as complicated as this one.

The TL;DR is my feeling of moral obligation to tell a BH:

-Whose wife cheated on him with my THEN-SINGLE WH for about 1.5 years, 30 years ago (just a few years before I met my WH).

-Who has been divorced from that wife for at least 10-12 years (and I think he has remarried?)

-Who considered my WH (and later me) a friend from around the time the affair started until at least the divorce, but probably still thinks fondly of him (my WH). I believe if the BH has yet to figure out his wife and WH had an affair, he would be especially hurt by this betrayal.

-Whose wife had at least one affair before she had one with my WH, and (according to WH via the wife) the BH also knew about and forgave.

-Whose wife, according to my WH's assessment, most likely had several other affairs after my WH-- but I don't know if the BH knows.

-Is quite rich and powerful. Not sure if he'd make WH's life miserable but that might hurt me and my child even if we do D.

-Who was always very kind to me-- and I believe to be a wonderful person-- a big hedge against his hurting us.

-Whom I feel a moral obligation to, now that I know-- I found out just this past fall along with the two affairs and countless inappropriate interactions WH participated in during our marriage.

-Whose (now ex-)wife/OW is in very bad shape, drug addicted, being arrested, continuing to date much younger men, estranged from their son and mentally unstable (I'm a little afraid of her, though I don't have proof she would attack us, etc.)

It's just so complicated.

DDay(s) were about 9-10 months ago. WH and I are separated after 20+ years of marriage and almost 30 years together. After hundreds of hours of conversation and some progress, I think we're barreling down on an R vs D decision by the end of this month.

I have a pretty strong bias in favor of the truth for BSs regardless of circumstance. And I don't like that it didn't even OCCUR TO ME over all this time that WH should tell this BH or that I should. I don't like that thoughts like "It will hurt OBH so deeply" or "It's in the past" or "He probably figured it out a while ago" and so on even crossed my mind. I would absolutely want to know if it were me. I just... I'm feeling torn now. I know it's because I still feel some form of obligation to carry WH's shame, but I don't know if that's the only reason. Ugh. All input welcome.

If the OBS is D from the AP, and it’s been years, I might let it go.

He may already know who the XW had affairs with.

Time can heal all wounds and maybe this one is best left alone. I rarely suggest this but I feel in this case the moral code is not the most important factor here.

If I were still interacting or thinking fondly of the person who betrayed me along with my spouse, I would definitely want to know. Your WH is/was not this BS’s friend. He attacked him violently and extremely personally as sure as if he’d done so physically. In fact, when you exchange bodily fluids with someone’s spouse without their knowledge, you are attacking them physically, emotionally and psychologically.

So if someone were walking around still acting like they’re my friend or keeping me in the dark when they’d slept with my spouse, I’d definitely want and have a right to know. Or if I still thought that the person that slept with my spouse was my friend, I’d definitely want and have a right to know.

This one is a pretty clear issue for me. I know there are other opinions, but for me, I know what this did to me and what information I needed. I would tell him.

Let me see if I understand your sitch.

OBS has money and power and has been kind to you.
Your H, before he was your H, cheated with OBS's W.
OBS and his WS D'ed 10-12 years ago.
You don't know if he has remarried, so I'm assuming your relationship has lapsed.

If that's not correct, let us know.

My bet is that OBS knows his W cheated.

My opinion is that this is old business that's irrelevant to OBS's life today, so telling him probably isn't going to help or hurt him.

That leads to a question: What positive outcome do you think will come from telling OBS that your WS is one of his XW's aps?

IDK whether you should or should not tell OBS at this point, but if your primary motivation is to assuage some guilt you feel, you're doing it for yourself, not for him. If I were in that sort of spot, I'd want anything I said to OBS to be for his benefit more than mine.

But my opinion could change, depending on what positive outcome you seek.

If I were still interacting or thinking fondly of the person who betrayed me along with my spouse, I would definitely want to know.

Yep!

Awesome replies, thank you so much, everyone.

sisoon, you have read the situation correctly. Which means, NowWhat106, that I should clarify to you that the OBH is not in touch with my WH at this point.

Roughly...

Early 90s-- The affair in question happened, after which my WH and the wife AND the OBH remained friends.

Mid-90s-- I started dating and later married my WH and was thereafter friends with this family and spent significant in-person time with them for about 10 years (without knowing the past).

Mid-00s-- ~Last time I saw the family in person, WH also saw the wife once in person a year or two after I did. WH continued to keep in touch and I sent Christmas cards, etc.

Late-00s/Early 10s?-- WH tells me that wife and OBH have divorced. From here on we don't have contact w/OBH, though contact w/OBH would have been tangential by then. My WH stays in touch w/wife somewhat via text/email/etc. I feel like at some point I Googled or WH told me or something and I think OBH might have remarried. I can ask WH.

From then on until 2022, WH continued to be in touch w/wife as her life was falling apart. There is one time in the late 2010s that I won't go into that my WH and wife saw each other in person-- long story, but I don't think anything happened there.

Now let me address your points and questions, sisoon, because they are excellent ones.

My opinion is that this is old business that's irrelevant to OBS's life today, so telling him probably isn't going to help or hurt him. That leads to a question: What positive outcome do you think will come from telling OBS that your WS is one of his XW's aps?

I'm just sort of thinking/writing through this. I'm going with feeling more than making some sort of a case.

First, I think this goes to what NowWhat106 said. While OBH and my WH have a basically lapsed relationship, OBH may still be walking around thinking that WH was his friend. Or there's a lingering doubt in OBH's mind about my WH. Or, of course, he could know about my WH.

I think as a BS I'd actually want to know the entire shape of my world. Honestly. Especially if there was that lingering doubt (which there probably almost by definition is-- unless he knows outright). I dislike the idea that "well, he probably already knows anyway..." But maybe that's a more problematic sentiment when the marriage is ongoing.

But I DO see knowing the truth as a positive outcome. At least a potentially positive one. I feel in my case that learning the truth about my entire marriage on my DDay(s) was a huge positive outcome for me, even while it hurt. It helped set me (mostly) free.

I note in myself some desire for my WH to be confronted by the fact that other people know he is "Not a Good Guy." This has been one of the cruxes of... everything. He was more concerned with his self-image than empathy, especially for me. He is already experiencing this in a couple of important ways with other people, and he is growing from it. Since he never dealt with any of these issues, he could really (largely) pretend they were sort of in some other fantasy land. I have been pointing out that certain people either knew or strongly suspected (with some proof) various infidelities, and he wanted so badly to pretend the infidelities weren't real that he was blinkered to some pretty obvious signs that others knew. And in addition to reframing the past for him, he's having to stop rely on me and my codependent and healthy support and my secret-keeping, when he actually talks to people about this other than me (his therapist, which he never had, and at least three friends now, plus his "first AP" from early in our relationship*).

I think what plays into this, too, is that I was shocked I hadn't thought of WH telling the OBH in all these many months, even after reading SI extensively, including this awesome thread I sent to WH a few days ago.

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/637329/im-still-not-doing-enough/?ap=1

In that thread, the OP is a WW, but also was the OW to her married AP when she was single. She did communicate with the OBW. WH read it and talked about it and I asked him if he had ever thought of telling OBH... He said, "no." I think that's telling. I'll get more, but I assume he meant he never even thought of telling in the 90s, when wife broke up with him.

And this isn't revenge against or punishment for my WH, but it is somewhat about my being gaslit and tired of carrying WH's shame for... basically our entire relationship, but bare minimum since he first cheated on me (another incident) a year into our serious dating relationship and I stayed and didn't really tell anyone.

IDK whether you should or should not tell OBS at this point, but if your primary motivation is to assuage some guilt you feel, you're doing it for yourself, not for him. If I were in that sort of spot, I'd want anything I said to OBS to be for his benefit more than mine.

I don't think it's to assuage my guilt as much as what I wrote above, but what I bolded really resonated with me, sisoon. Since I can see my reasons are mixed (and probably incomplete-- I'm sure there's even deeper stuff), and given the circumstances... I can't in good conscience say telling him would be MORE for the OBH than for myself and/or (in my perception) my WH. It's most certainly for OBH-- at least if I think about what I'd want** in his shoes. But I can't say it's MORE for him, not clearly. So I think I might let this sit a while. Thanks so much.

*"First AP" from when we were dating was a complicated issue where he took advantage of her and I assign her zero blame. He needed to make major amends to her and I encouraged his communication with her recently. She also sees him as very much "Not a Good Guy"-- basically no one has seen WH's bad side like I have except for her. So for him to confront this recently was huge.

**I also wanted to acknowledge that I don't know what it's like as a BS to have divorced, moved on, possibly be remarried, etc. with whatever DDays probably existed for them to be at least ~10 years in the past (vs my 10 months). So maybe even I-- for whom truth is perhaps unusually paramount-- would not feel I needed to know if I were in the same position OBH is.

If there is a possibility of OBS meeting your WH anytime in future, which is totally possible, and if there is also possiblilty of him inviting your husband to his home and introducing his new family, especially his new wife to your husband then yes, you should inform him. OBS deserves to know that your husband is capable of hurting him and his family as he did in the past.

[This message edited by Lurkingsoul12 at 6:46 PM, Saturday, August 12th]

Totally agree with LurkingSoul

This is a difficult problem, but what I read parses down to: you (JPF) are unhappy with your H, and you're thinking of shaming him by telling OBS about an A from the time before your started dating your WS.

Shaming a person may get that person to examine themself and decide to fix the broken parts, but my guess is that it's more likely to trigger rebellion - for example, 'I'll show you!'

IMO, your best bet is to address your unhappiness with your H directly. What happens if, say, you accept that he isn't a good candidate for R? Or is he a good candidate for R? If you truly want D, what's holding you back?

Your discomfort is yours to own and resolve, even though it comes from your H's behavior. You can't change him. You can change your responses to him.

Besides, his behavior right now is a hell of a lot more important - to him, to you, and probably to The Universe - than what he did 30 years ago. (That does not mean his behavior 30 years ago is totally irrelevant.)

It's easier to get through this and thrive if one thinks straight, talks straight, and acts straight - and I'm not talking about sexuality. I'm talking about doing one's best to avoid being manipulative, unless one is in the D process. Before you've chosen D or R, if you want a person to change, ask for the person to make the changes you want. And if the person refuses your request, figure out if that's the straw that breaks R's back.

Why doesn’t the WH tell the BS what he did 30yrs ago? You have information from a time period when you weren’t in the picture. Your WH had an A with this OW; OW and her husband (BS)are now divorced. He’s technically not the "other"BS/OBS bc the cheating occurred before you came along. Emphasis on - this happened when your WH was a single man. Too many unknowns - how do we know BS and OW didn’t get divorced because she cheated on him? How do we know that this BS hasn’t already known about this affair between his wife and this man who is now your husband - and how do you know that he’s not aware of possibly other affairs? We don’t know this and it’s impossible for you to know this even if you kept in touch with this BS. As a BS I feel that yes I have a moral obligation to inform the OBS about an A between my spouse and theirs. But I don’t feel it’s right to throw a monkey wrench into this guys life after he’s moved on from WW when you weren’t the BS in this scenario. You weren’t even in the picture during this time frame. If you can’t definitively say that knowing this information that man would be better off - then leave him alone. I think it’s a little intrusive and without knowing what HE knows or the circumstances regarding his D from his WW, this is a bit much. You’re about to potentially turn his life upside with this tidbit of information - who benefits from this? I’m sorry I’m just not seeing how this can be any good thing. That man appears to have moved on from his wife, he has divorced her, maybe he’s remarried maybe not. You’re not really in contact with him that much anymore. This just doesn’t seem like the right thing to do IMHO.

[This message edited by Blackbird25 at 9:25 PM, Saturday, August 12th]

Since there's no longer contact with the OBS, he already knows that his XW cheated on him, and both he and the AP could potentially cause various kinds of harm to you, I'd be inclined to let this one go. It might help OBS put some puzzle pieces together, but that puzzle was put in the donation bin a long time ago.

The 12 steps say this:

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

When Should You Step Back?

One important component of Step 9 is avoiding making amends to people who could suffer in the process. Making this determination can be difficult. Some people in the recovery process only naturally want to say sorry—whatever the pain or hurt they caused. But, there are times when it’s best not to make amends:

When you’ve caused physical harm to the person, and they’re afraid of you
The individual has been traumatized by your addiction or actions
Instances of any type of abuse
Instances in which your actions destroyed your marriage, such as having an affair
Any instance in which someone tells you they don’t want to see you

To discern whether to make amends, ask yourself why you’re wanting to contact the person. For example, if you had an affair for three years during active addiction, visiting your ex to fess up and say you’re sorry isn’t going to help them; it’s going to hurt them. Are you taking the step to clear your conscience at the expense of another person? If so, then you should avoid approaching that individual.

It's a tough call, but I think I'd let it go and tell my H that if the OBS makes contact with him, don't pretend to be his friend or I will spill the beans.