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Reconciliation :
GF cheated/assaulted while blackout drunk, trouble letting it go.

Topic is Sleeping.
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 rothman9499 (original poster new member #82959) posted at 3:18 PM on Monday, February 27th, 2023

I wouldn’t stay with someone who intentionally cheated on me. But I also wouldn’t dump someone who was sexually assaulted. This situation feels like a grey area between the two.
This happened 6 months ago

My GF (27F) of 4 years came to me the morning after a party in tears and told me something "Bad" happened last night. She barely remembered the encounter - she thought it was just a kiss, and she thought she said "stop, I have a boyfriend."
She was blackout drunk - a common excuse in cheating scenarios im sure - but in her case, you'll just have to trust me. She was blackout. She blacks out easily and has a history of trouble controlling her alcohol consumption. She couldn't even remember where it happened, how they got there, or any details. All she could remembers is a flash memory of his face being close to hers and then a flash memory of walking home.

The next day - after she told me and I freaked out wanting to know more - she texted him the following messages below (which she originally deleted, but then two weeks later told me about them and recovered them so I could see)

Her: "Heyy I’m so sorry to be doing this. I am trying to piece together last night. I don’t remember much but I have a sinking feeling…. I can’t hide anything at all from my boyfriend so I told him I think you tried to kiss me when we were outside but I stopped it (which I don’t think is entirely true…?) and that I got a ride back to [neighbourhood] with you and walked home from there. Can you please text me back when you get this. I feel like such an awful human being and I am so sorry, I know this is not a cool message to be receiving"

Him: Hi, dont be sorry! I am sorry that you have that sinking feeling. Would you like to chat on the phone instead? I’m just driving back from dinner but could call you quickly.

[she calls him, no answer]

Her: Don’t worry about calling me back, thank you for the offer to chat. I honestly don’t know if I want to know the details. I have responsibility in the matter I’m sure. [my boyfriend] doesn’t deserve that. Can we please please keep this between us? I don’t know WTF happened but it shouldn’t have. I want to be honest but I’m scared he will never forgive me and he is literally the best thing to ever happen to me. I told him I texted you, I would never ask you to lie for me, and there’s no pressure to text me back. I really hope the truth is that we kissed, I stopped it, I walked home. :( "

Him: "OK i’m sorry I missed the call. Speaking outside of you and I, I tend to believe that sometimes these types of things happen and while they are obviously unfortunate and create hard things to overcome in a relationship, they shouldn’t have to mean you can’t be together anymore. It sounds like you love him very much from reading the above and I would be very upset if last night meant the undoing of that. You’re a very kind and amazing person and I hope everything between both of you works out, truly."

{Conversation deleted}

The next day she calls him again and this time he answers, I was present for this call:

She asks him what happened and explains that she blacked out alot of the night. He told her that they walked home together after the party, ended up in another friend’s living room, and hooked up. She’s crying at this point tells him she can’t remember any of this. She asks "‘what happened?" He says "Lets put it this way, If I was your boyfriend I would be pretty upset."
She’s breaking down crying now.
He said they made out and that he had his hands down her pants. He said he then performed oral on her, and that after that he thinks she briefly performed oral on him (although he seemed less sure about this which I thought was fishy). He said he put protection on and were about to have sex but then he noticed she looked really uncomfortable and she said she wanted to stop and said " I just want to be in my own bed". He said thats when he stopped, and she left." He said she was only in the house for 20 or 30 minutes, so whatever happened was breif. He also kept saying that he felt really bad for what happened, and didn’t want to be "that guy", and didnt realize that she was drunk (which I know is bullshit because many other people have told me that she seemed super out of it and hammered and I have seen her in that state before and it's very obvious)

She was crying and genuinely could not believe what he was saying was true. She said she was in utter disbelief that this had happened. She said that no part of her wanted to hook up with this guy. She genuinely doesn’t remember any of these details, she remembers being in the bar with her friends, but then there’s like a 2 hour period that’s completely black and then she has a flash memory of his face, and then a flash memory of walking home

This guy knew we were in a relationship, and has even met me a couple times before. He was in a position of power over her, and she has known him for 10 years. He has tried to pursue her in the past on multiple occasions (before we were dating) but she never allowed his advances. She is steadfast that she never had interest or attraction to him. My therapist told me that if a woman has known a man for 10 years and she hasn’t hooked up with him, that’s a pretty good indication that she didn’t want to.

Let me clarify, They did not get drunk together, she was with her girlfriends, and was already blackout drunk before this guy even started pursuing her. He just happened to be at the same party. I talked to her friends that were with her and they confirmed she was super wasted and that they noticed this guy pursuing her, but they said that honestly they didn’t interact all that much throughout the night so they werent super worried about it. He offered to walk her home at the end of the night (where the F were her friends?). She doesn’t remember any of the walk home or even leaving the party.

I broke up with her, but after some time apart, I really feel like this encounter does not seem 100% consensual. She was genuinely blackout drunk. He said she looked uncomfortable and asked to leave. He referred to the encounter as "unfortunate" which I thought was weird. Also, She told me immediately and I would have never found out. She is so damn remorseful, took a vow of sobriety, and is adamant that she believes we are really meant to be together and nothing like this will EVER happen again. She seems genuinely distraught and disgusted whenever she talks about it. She told him she doesn’t want to speak with him ever again and blocked him on all media. She told me I’m the love of her life.

She is adamant that there was NO CONSENT, and NO INTENT. She doesn’t usually call it "assault", but she says "I was taken advantage of" and "I made a mistake by putting myself in that position" She has been 6 months sober and is seeing a counsellor to work through her childhood traumas and boundaries with men. She is truly a different woman since this and said she never wants to drink to excess ever again.

I’m not proud of this, but one night I was feeling paranoid and I looked through her phone. I wanted to see how she described the situation to her best friend. I figured, maybe she would lie to me, but she wont lie to [her best friend]. Anyways, the messages to her friend were the exact same as what she’s telling me "I’m in utter disbelief that this happened", "no part of me wanted to hook up with this guy", "I need to quit drinking" "I ruined my life for nothing" ect.

If something this bad hadn't happened, I don't know if she would have ever stopped drinking. So maybe it's a blessing in disguise?

So many people say "once a cheater, always a cheater" - and maybe that is true for someone who intentionally lies, decieves, and cheats. But what about a situation like this.. black-out drunk..immediate confession.. no sex... could this not be viewed as a mistake, never to be repeated? Or perhaps this is just flat out sexual assault?

Do you agree that this encounter does not sound 100% consensual?

I'm having trouble letting it go, but it feels wrong to end an otherwise great relationship with a woman I am in love over some opportunistic asshole.

posts: 9   ·   registered: Feb. 27th, 2023
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Luna10 ( member #60888) posted at 3:27 PM on Monday, February 27th, 2023

Your GF did not cheat on you, she was raped. (Or about to be raped depending if the other man did actually leave or not).

You claiming that she’s somehow accountable for this is complete nonsense and you should probably research and understand what consent looks like for your own benefit and your future relationships because I tell you what consent does not look like, taking advantage of a drunk woman because she is in a vulnerable position.

Furthermore if this would be my daughter I would advise her to break up with you as you are actually adding to her trauma by victim blaming.

[This message edited by Luna10 at 3:29 PM, Monday, February 27th]

Dday - 27th September 2017

posts: 1822   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2017   ·   location: UK
id 8779591
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 3:34 PM on Monday, February 27th, 2023

I agree this looks like it's far from 100% consensual, but the issue IMO is that she lets herself get blackout drunk. If she keeps doing that, I don't see how she can protect herself against assault in the future. If it has become a habit, her best approach is to build new habits around mind-altering substances.

I'm not a tee-totaler. I just think people need strong boundaries to protect themselves.

I'm sorry you're in pain. I'd have a hard time convicting the guy if I were on a jury. He got himself drunk, too, and if it's an excuse for one, I can't help seeing it as an excuse for the other.

OTOH, if he wasn't drunk, if your GF was drugged...either of those make the event very sinister.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

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id 8779592
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 3:59 PM on Monday, February 27th, 2023

She was raped.

That he didn't want to text her back..it's obvious he didn't want to admit anything in writing.

I have a very,very similar story. Many years ago. Her small flashes of memory are identical to mine.

There are some things she needs to do. She will need therapy,to help her process what happened to her. She needs to drop the friends she was with that night. A friend would NEVER leave her blackout drunk. They would have made sure she got home safely. She needs to be tested for stds. He says there was no intercourse,but he's a rapist,so nothing he says means anything. She needs to stop drinking. You said she can't control her alcohol consumption. No more drinking.

And, no judgement, because I can understand how a man might not believe his girlfriend, but if you can't be 100% supportive, and loving toward her now,after she was absolutely sexually assaulted, then be kind, and stay away. What happened was not her fault. Should she have drank that much while out? No. That doesn't mean she deserves to be assaulted.

You will probably get a few men who will tell you she's lying. I bet not one woman..even the betrayed wives...who will agree with that. Many of us unfortunately, have been in her position. And it would have been heartbreaking if our partner made us feel worse.

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6626   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
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Luna10 ( member #60888) posted at 4:06 PM on Monday, February 27th, 2023

I agree this looks like it's far from 100% consensual, but the issue IMO is that she lets herself get blackout drunk.

I respectfully disagree, there is no "but" in being sexually assaulted and the issue lies with not teaching our men what consent looks like. We wouldn’t tell a woman who may suffer of blackouts due to epilepsy for example (rather than alcohol) that it is her issue she got sexually assaulted so why do it when the blackout came from drinking?

Of course, ideally nobody should get blackout drunk, men or women.

But no, the issue does not lie with her for being sexually assaulted, she is the victim here.

This is the usual argument where the victim is being blamed for being sexually assaulted for a variety of reasons including her skirt was too short, she was walking alone too late at night, she was too friendly and so on. Much easier to blame the victim than hold men accountable for not understanding that no means no and if the person isn’t capable to say yes and doesn’t appear able to make cognitive decisions then it means no.

The blame for sexual assault lies with the aggressor, full stop.

[This message edited by Luna10 at 4:45 PM, Monday, February 27th]

Dday - 27th September 2017

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id 8779601
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GoldenR ( member #54778) posted at 4:21 PM on Monday, February 27th, 2023

Furthermore if this would be my daughter I would advise her to break up with you as you are actually adding to her trauma by victim blaming.

And if I was his dad I'd advise him to run. If an adult who knows they blackout regularly from drinking still does it and this winds up happening, she's 50% responsible for it. Call it victim blaming if you want, and I'll call it calling out dangerously irresponsible behavior.

Same as if a man walks through Harlem holding 10K in cash and gets beaten and robbed. He should have known better.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 4:22 PM, Monday, February 27th]

posts: 2850   ·   registered: Aug. 22nd, 2016   ·   location: South Texas
id 8779603
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 rothman9499 (original poster new member #82959) posted at 4:31 PM on Monday, February 27th, 2023

LUNA10 (can't figure out how to quote your post)

I hear you. I understand its a different world for women, and I'm trying to be understanding.

I guess it was confusing for me at first because initially she took a lot of responsibility for what happened. She even called it cheating once or twice at the beginning. That, combined with the fact that she had an existing friendship with the guy was very troubling for me to wrap my head around. They even went for coffee once or twice about 7 years ago. I couldn't help but be a bit concerned/suspicious/confused when something like this hits you out of left field.

Now though, I see it differently. I have done my digging, talked to her, talked to a therapist, talked to friends who were with her that night. She never calls it cheating anymore, but she also doesn't like to call it assault. Honestly, she just hates talking about it at at all. I have heard that a lot of victims of abuse/assault/rape initially take on a lot of responsibility, and often its not until months or years later that they realize that what happened was actually really wrong.

I don't want you to think that I'm not a compassionate or understanding guy. Quite the opposite. That's why I'm here. I love this woman.

posts: 9   ·   registered: Feb. 27th, 2023
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Luna10 ( member #60888) posted at 4:47 PM on Monday, February 27th, 2023

If an adult who knows they blackout regularly from drinking still does it and this winds up happening, she's 50% responsible for it.

Charming… I shall ask again, what if her blackouts are caused by epilepsy or a brain tumour? Still her fault?

Dday - 27th September 2017

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Luna10 ( member #60888) posted at 4:51 PM on Monday, February 27th, 2023

I guess it was confusing for me at first because initially she took a lot of responsibility for what happened.

This is very common in victims of sexual assault. In fact if you stay here enough to read stories of (true) infidelity you will notice that a lot of betrayed spouses do take some responsibility of the affair in the early stages of discovery.

It is natural, by focusing on why you "deserved" to be assaulted (physically or emotionally) you feel like you are still in control.

I hope your GF gets all the support she needs to heal from this terrible experience.

Dday - 27th September 2017

posts: 1822   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2017   ·   location: UK
id 8779610
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GoldenR ( member #54778) posted at 5:11 PM on Monday, February 27th, 2023

Charming… I shall ask again, what if her blackouts are caused by epilepsy or a brain tumour? Still her fault?

Did I miss that part? Or did OP pm you some missing details?

posts: 2850   ·   registered: Aug. 22nd, 2016   ·   location: South Texas
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GrayShades ( member #59967) posted at 5:11 PM on Monday, February 27th, 2023

I suspect she took a lot of responsibility at first because she blamed herself for being intoxicated, as many others will as well (wrongly IMHO -- the person who robs and assaults someone in Harlem, or Texas where crime rates are higher than the national average, is no less guilty because the victim's judgment was not perfect). Sounds like she did not consent, and that's the essence of cheating behavior, isn't it?

Me: 50 on DdayWH: Turned 48 the day before DdayDday: 05/16/17 One son, now young adult.

posts: 251   ·   registered: Aug. 2nd, 2017   ·   location: CO
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Luna10 ( member #60888) posted at 5:18 PM on Monday, February 27th, 2023

Did I miss that part? Or did OP pm you some missing details?

If you cannot see the analogy it isn’t my job to educate you on how not to rape a woman depending on the cause of her lack of consciousness.

Dday - 27th September 2017

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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 5:20 PM on Monday, February 27th, 2023

To the men saying she was partially responsible for being sexually assaulted...

I've seen these very same BH say that a BS is never responsible for their WS's actions. That nothing they did or didn't do, caused their WS to cheat. Were you a perfect spouse? No? Doesn't matter. Nothing you did made your WS cheat.

Same applies here. Nothing this woman did,or didn't do, caused her to be raped. The rapist is completely responsible for his actions.

Should she have been blackout drunk? No. That doesn't mean it was ok for a man to assault her.

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6626   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
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GoldenR ( member #54778) posted at 5:21 PM on Monday, February 27th, 2023

If you cannot see the analogy it isn’t my job to educate you on how not to rape a woman depending on the cause of her lack of consciousness.

Your analogy is flawed. In one scenario, the girl blacked out voluntarily. In the other, it's a condition of which she has no control over it.

posts: 2850   ·   registered: Aug. 22nd, 2016   ·   location: South Texas
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 rothman9499 (original poster new member #82959) posted at 5:27 PM on Monday, February 27th, 2023

GoldenR

"Your analogy is flawed. In one scenario, the girl blacked out voluntarily. In the other, it's a condition of which she has no control over it."

I disagree with you - nobody blacks out voluntarily. People drink voluntarily, but rarely with the expectation or intention of blacking out. Some people, especially women, are predisposed to blacking out easier than others. And some people, due to their traumas, childhood, genetic disposition have a harder time controlling alcohol than others (my GF for example)

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Luna10 ( member #60888) posted at 5:30 PM on Monday, February 27th, 2023

Your analogy is flawed. In one scenario, the girl blacked out voluntarily. In the other, it's a condition of which she has no control over it.

Right… so you presumably taught your (potential) son that if he sees a woman slurring her speech he needs to establish if she’s drunk or having a health issue. If she stinks of alcohol then she DESERVES to be raped as obviously she’s asking for it so therefore he could help himself, if she doesn’t then she deserves to be safe from assault.

I’m not sure if you truly have no clue what consent means or if you are confused between making a bad decision (drinking too much) and responsibility of being attacked.

In your world it appears that all murderers that assaulted and killed women walking alone in a city after midnight should be only 50% responsible because obviously said women asked for it… sad world you have there.

Dday - 27th September 2017

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GoldenR ( member #54778) posted at 5:30 PM on Monday, February 27th, 2023

Should she have been blackout drunk? No. That doesn't mean it was ok for a man to assault her.

Rape is never ok.

But putting yourself in a dangerous situation is just dumb.

Do I roll my windows up and lock my new SUV up every night?

Yes

Should I have to?

No

But by not doing so I'm opening myself up to becoming a victim so much easier than it would be if I simply locked it and rolled the windows up.

If I don't and it gets stolen, part of that blame goes to me for being a dumb ass.

posts: 2850   ·   registered: Aug. 22nd, 2016   ·   location: South Texas
id 8779622
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GoldenR ( member #54778) posted at 5:33 PM on Monday, February 27th, 2023

Luna - if your argument has devolved into making stuff up, then you lose.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 5:37 PM, Monday, February 27th]

posts: 2850   ·   registered: Aug. 22nd, 2016   ·   location: South Texas
id 8779623
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Luna10 ( member #60888) posted at 5:45 PM on Monday, February 27th, 2023

Luna - if your argument has devolved into making stuff up, then you lose.

I wasn’t here to win anything anyway, I’m truly hoping that OP puts some thought into his position in the matter based on the conversation.

I am not making things up, it is just a portrayal of the hypothetical world you wish to live in.

Presumably you’ve never done anything stupid either, nothing that could have put your life at risk or put you in a compromising situation which could have ended badly.

I on the other hand, although I never got drunk, I can think of more than one examples in my youth that could have ended in rape (such as walking back home on my own after a party at 2am). I am glad that nobody on your side of the argument met me that night.

I am also hoping that my daughter, whilst she’ll no doubt make stupid decisions no matter how many times I teach her safety, doesn’t come across someone on your side of the argument.

Dday - 27th September 2017

posts: 1822   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2017   ·   location: UK
id 8779625
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GoldenR ( member #54778) posted at 5:50 PM on Monday, February 27th, 2023

Thing is, you're taking my points and saying that means that I think it's all ok.

It's not. In a perfect world we could all drink all that we want when we want whereever we are, we could all walk anywhere carrying anything at anytime and we could go to sleep without securing our cars or our doors and windows of our house/apt/whatever.

Unfortunately the world is full of shitheads that are just hoping that we dont do any of the above. And it's up to each of us to do everything we can to protect ourselves, our loved ones and our property.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 5:52 PM, Monday, February 27th]

posts: 2850   ·   registered: Aug. 22nd, 2016   ·   location: South Texas
id 8779626
Topic is Sleeping.
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