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Newest Member: JM333

Wayward Side :
I can't let go

Topic is Sleeping.
stop

 ToffiCake (original poster new member #82799) posted at 11:07 AM on Saturday, January 28th, 2023

At the beginning, I would like to beg you people not to judge me. I know what I did wrong and I suffer for it, and I will be suffering for a long time. I already barely eat, sleep, I have no joy in life anymore.

I've been married for 5 years, but me and my H have been together for 12. I've met my affair partner in an online game a few years ago.He always knew I was married. Me, my husband and him got along pretty well, although me and him were a bit closer. You could say we were good friends, we had a lot in common, we really enjoyed our company. We talked together, spent time together, we played together. My AP met his girlfriend not much later than we met online. We added each other to Facebook and started to talk about everyday life.

At some point I would share my thoughts about my marriage and the issues we had in life, how I was upset with my husband sometimes, and he just listened. I did this in a good faith that he is my friend and I needed someone to support me other than my family. My husband didn't listen to me at that time, I felt neglected. I felt like I'm alone with my problems, and my AP was there for me.

One day, after about 3 years, he started to flirt with me. That was almost a year ago. At the beginning I thought these were just jokes because, after all, we were best friends, but it went further and further. He became more obvious with his flirts, but I didn't protest, because he was the one who made me feel better and appreciated. I felt loved, I fell in love with him. Finally someone neededed me, someone cared about me, which, after 12 years of being together with my husband, was lost somewhere in everyday life. We really enjoyed each other's company, we liked to talk about everything, we shared a lot together.

After some time my AP started to plant ideas in my head that my family is terrible because they neglect me, that they are the reason I'm unhappy, and that my husband is a douche, and I deserve better. He badmouthed my husband to his friends and said what a failure he is in his marriage, without knowing him at all. The AP would make promises how he would never leave me, that I could have a great job in his country, that we would never be bored together because we share so many interests, that he would let me do what I want to do (and vice versa obviously) and I'm the lady he was dreaming of all his life. I also started to believe that he is the love of my life, that we are a perfect match and we can have a bright future together. My AP would say how great I am for listening to him, for being able to have a conversation without judging, and he implied that even when we disagree on something, we don't argue. When I asked about why it all started for him, he said the feeling started to build up at some point and he didn't understand it. But he was convinced it is love and I believe his feelings, to this day, are genuine.

I started to think that maybe I should really leave my marriage. I had thoughts that maybe I don't love my husband anymore since I fell in love with someone else and maybe my life would be better with AP.

My H found out about us, because I started to behave differently. My affair lasted for a month, but it built up over a period of half a year. I told my H I don't love him, that I'm really tired of his stupid family that made me miserable for all these years (which is true by the way, but I don't want to give any details). I hurt him deeply and I really regretted seeing him like this. It was 2 weeks of a total nightmare, for me and for him.

However, he made me see what I was really doing. How I simply went mad for one person. It woke me up.

My AP started to be very pushy after this, he would tell me I deserve better, that I should leave my husband asap. The truth is, I wasn't even ready to leave. It all happened so fast, that I didn't even think everything through. I started to question myself - okay, but how am I going to work there if I don't know the language? How are we going to live together if his girlfriend is there, living with him, unaware of anything? Would he help me pay for my rent? Would I cope living alone in a foreign country if all goes south?

So I decided to end the affair. I started to see through his messages that maybe he's not a person for me. A person with very little empathy, claiming to be very commited while he was still with his girlfriend. He would send me the pictures of the beautiful nature, tell me that we will come here one day, while he was with her on a walk, and I was here, fighting with my husband, not wanting to sleep with him in one bed. My AP would even snap one day about how he almost went to bed with her, but he said he felt bad about it and stopped it, and that was already when he was flirting with me.

My husband has been fighting for me, even though I didn't deserve it.

We went on a therapy, and it helped a lot. For a while.

I was naively thinking that maybe we all can get over it and maybe the friendship with my AP that we had prior to the affair could be fixed. I have been in touch with him for half a year after DD. I was doing okay for the most part, the feelings for him were very dim, I didn't want anything from him. Sadly, after half a year, my feelings for him revoked because we became intimate again and I started to think about leaving my marriage and being with the AP. Truth is that there hasn't been a day I wouldn't think of him. I miss him greatly every day and I struggle to let go.

At the same time, I feel terrible for hurting my husband. He doesn't deserve it. And that makes me think that maybe he would be better without me. I feel like an awful person that hurts everybody around. Sometimes I just want to end myself and be gone forever.

I struggle with letting AP go, I still want him in my life even if I know his promises were unrealistic. Even if I know he has been unfair to me. I know that if I leave my husband, I will be left completely alone and dependent on my AP. And I know my husband fights for me, and he's upset that he has to fight for me with the idealized pictures in my head. He has been talking to me about it for almost half a year. He has courage to talk with his own wife about her AP. He has been trying to rationalize everything the AP said to me. He has been trying to show me my own destructive behaviour and how it impacts me.

I'm aware of the fact that the whole thing is in my thoughts, and not in the reality. Me and the AP never met. I don't even know what our interactions would look like in real life. I don't know him whole. I fell in love in what I've been given through the internet camera and in games. But I really struggle to let it go, I struggle to change myself for my husband and I need support.

I tried to cut the contact twice with no success. This is the third time I'm trying to get through this. He is still in my mind and I think about him daily. I keep imagining how my life would look like with him and not my husband. I keep focusing on what I don't like about my husband and I cherish the good sides of my AP.

I don't believe in myself anymore. I believe I'm an awful person and I will never forgive myself for getting into it. I lost my husband's trust and I lost my best friend (the AP). I can't bear the thought of not knowing what is happening to AP, and how is his life going. And how is he doing without me.

I also struggle to cope with him not being around me anymore, not adoring me anymore. I felt important to someone else than my husband and it's gone.
It's not like I'm unhappy with my marriage. We enjoy spending time together, we never argue. But part of me misses something. Everything is too stagnant perhaps. I don't really know.

I regret cheating. It ruined my life, it ruined me as a person. I feel like I have absolutely zero respect to my husband and his feelings and I'm disgusted with myself. All I wanted was to be happy.

Please, I need support that there is hope for me to be happy with my husband. I'm trying, but I keep failing.

[This message edited by ToffiCake at 11:26 AM, Saturday, January 28th]

WS
Married for over 12 years
Trying to reconcile

posts: 9   ·   registered: Jan. 28th, 2023   ·   location: Europe
id 8775093
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BraveSirRobin ( member #69242) posted at 12:35 PM on Saturday, January 28th, 2023

Hello, Tofficake. Welcome to SI.

There is a pinned post at the top of this forum called "Maia's Withdrawal Survival Guide." I recommend you start there. It's an iconic post by a former WW in the same situation as you: self-aware enough to realize that her feelings weren't fair to her spouse and didn't even make sense, but so addicted to the rush of those feelings that she struggled hard to let go of her AP.

Maia unfortunately is not with us anymore (she passed away last year), but her words have been solace to many people in your situation who know they are broken and need help to figure out how to be better.

I hope you'll stay, read, learn, and grow.

WW/BW

posts: 3598   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8775096
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 ToffiCake (original poster new member #82799) posted at 10:59 AM on Monday, January 30th, 2023

Thank you. I have already read Maia's Guide and I'm trying to stick to it. Sadly I keep failing with NC and I feel really lonely with this whole situation. I've already read a lot on this website, but definitely everyone has a different story to tell. Mine is also different. I feel like my life is just slipping away, but at the same time I know it takes a very long time and a lot of determination to feel better.

WS
Married for over 12 years
Trying to reconcile

posts: 9   ·   registered: Jan. 28th, 2023   ·   location: Europe
id 8775321
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Bor9455 ( member #72628) posted at 5:09 PM on Monday, January 30th, 2023

Thank you. I have already read Maia's Guide and I'm trying to stick to it. Sadly I keep failing with NC and I feel really lonely with this whole situation. I've already read a lot on this website, but definitely everyone has a different story to tell. Mine is also different. I feel like my life is just slipping away, but at the same time I know it takes a very long time and a lot of determination to feel better.

You really need to do some work to reframe in your mind what the AP was and was not. The AP knew you were married and in spite of that he pursued a friendship and ultimately tried for a romantic relationship with a married woman. Think about this from an outsider perspective, if you were out with a group of gals and a married man approached one of your friends and tried to pick them up, I would imagine that you and the gals would be pretty appalled at the lack of respect shown for a married woman. This AP did that in the virtual world.

What you fell in love with is a completely curated and controlled version of who he is. Sure, you may have seen his photos and seen his face, but you don't know diddly squat about this man, especially since he lives in another country. Go look at the documentary the Tinder Swindler if you need to understand what can and does happen. You didn't fall in love with AP, you fell in love with the idea of him.

What you somehow have to do is reframe the narrative in your head that the fantasy you imagine could never be real. Your BH and you sit down and deal with things like bills, parenting and household chores. No where in your fantasy world with the AP do you sit down and talk about how the two of you are going to parent children you have or who is going to be the one who takes out the trash and mows the lawn, or who pays the bills, etc. Ask yourself why you don't talk about those things but you spend hours fantasizing about the coolest places to see or the best sexual positions for the two of you? Because being a grown up and married sometimes can be boring with all the mundane things we do from time to time, and talking about mopping the floors or washing the bedsheets is the kind of real world boring stuff that would make a fantasy escape seem more like reality, which you were desperately trying to avoid by having an affair.

Your AP was complicit in helping you to destroy your BH, the one person you claim is most important to you in the whole world. I know in my world, when people come for my friends, they are coming for me. Where you have gotten it all wrong is that this man came for your marriage and your husband, and you are sitting here taking his side. You give your BH no other choice but to start looking for the exits.

Myself - BH & WH - Born 1985 Her - BW & WW - Born 1986

D-Day for WW's EA - October 2017D-Day no it turned PA - February 01, 2020

posts: 643   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2020   ·   location: Miami
id 8775377
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 ToffiCake (original poster new member #82799) posted at 3:02 PM on Thursday, February 2nd, 2023

Thank you Bor9455 for your insight.

The truth is that I've been defensive of my BH after DDay. The whole situation made me realize that my AP treated him with a big dose of unfairness, and badmouthed him without really knowing him. My BH has been working very hard to restore our marriage and change things, so that I no longer would feel abandoned and lonely. I also tried to do my work - but I refused to cut the contact and therefore further humiliated my husband.

It's not that I don't know that I know only a certain image of my AP. I've been in online relationships before and I know it's always different in real life than through the internet. But my emotional attachment to the AP is so strong that I just refuse to see it. Also, when I would tell my AP I know only just a small part of who he is and it's all a fantasy, he would tell me that "maybe we should make it real then?". So my brain would stop for a second and then think "yeah, we could make it real...". My BH even said he's fighting an impossible battle here, because the whole image of my AP is in head and he stands no chance against it.

I haven't left my marriage because for all of this time I've had my doubts, that I'm acting irrational and irresponsible, and that the AP knew I was married and still invaded my space. But the feelings to my AP are there and I struggle to stop them. And I assume I'm addicted to him. He made me feel self-confident to the point where I believed I could rule the world.

[This message edited by ToffiCake at 4:05 PM, Thursday, February 2nd]

WS
Married for over 12 years
Trying to reconcile

posts: 9   ·   registered: Jan. 28th, 2023   ·   location: Europe
id 8775801
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Bor9455 ( member #72628) posted at 4:28 PM on Monday, February 6th, 2023

He made me feel self-confident to the point where I believed I could rule the world.

At some level I hope you come to understand that this was only an illusion that you created in your own head. It was the adrenaline rush that comes because you were doing something you knew that you shouldn't do. As we say, the AP could be any person, as he is more mirroring you than anything else. You were using him and he was using you.

However, if you are hung up on this AP so much, you should come clean with your husband and let him know. There is no sense in trying to drag your BH, who has already been through hell and back, through a false reconciliation if you are going to be pining for the AP. It isn't fair that either of you stay in a marriage where you are not all-in. I don't know how to help you get over the AP other than you have to work to change the narrative about this guy. I can't believe that I'm going to counsel this, but maybe you need to go fly off and meet him and realize what he is really like to shock you back to reality. That is the hardest part of having an online only EA situation, the person on the other end you don't really know at all, even less so than you could know someone if you were having a PA with someone more local. Hell, for all you know, this guy has been stringing along multiple APs and you were just the latest one.

Myself - BH & WH - Born 1985 Her - BW & WW - Born 1986

D-Day for WW's EA - October 2017D-Day no it turned PA - February 01, 2020

posts: 643   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2020   ·   location: Miami
id 8776356
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 ToffiCake (original poster new member #82799) posted at 4:56 PM on Monday, February 6th, 2023

Thank you.

After me being completely lost in feelings and talking to BH about them, my BH suggested that maybe I should actually meet the guy and see for myself what our interactions are. But my reaction was a strong "No.", because I know it's not a solution to anything, and it would only cause more misery for all parties.

My AP has been in a relationship for 4 years and I assume he disconnected from her emotionally, therefore he started to look for a better suited mate, just in a wrong spot. It happened that I was miserable and neglected back then, not being listened to, and he used that to his own advantage. I don't believe he is catfishing or something like that, he is just a person with poor boundaries and low self-esteem.

My husband has changed since then and tries to reassure me that my decisions are my own now, and not, like it was before, someone else's.

I decided today to cut the contact and stick to that as much as I can. I'm also trying to find a therapist who will help me get over that illusion and false beliefs and help me work on my marriage and my feelings.

I feel disgusted and guilty about myself when I see my husband crying and what damage I'm causing to him. He absolutely doesn't deserve such treatment. But I struggle to keep my boundaries up, and I need to stay strong.

[This message edited by ToffiCake at 5:31 PM, Monday, February 6th]

WS
Married for over 12 years
Trying to reconcile

posts: 9   ·   registered: Jan. 28th, 2023   ·   location: Europe
id 8776360
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BraveSirRobin ( member #69242) posted at 7:56 PM on Monday, February 6th, 2023

No, it's a terrible idea to go and see the AP, so I'm glad you rejected it. However, it is an excellent idea for your husband to tell the AP's girlfriend about the affair. She deserves to know that her WBF has been keeping her on the line as Plan B. Also, if that relationship blows up, you may learn that she was actually Plan A, and your AP was just selling you a fantasy for his own entertainment. It will be logistically easier (if painful) if he abruptly abandons his pursuit of you to try and save his long term relationship.

WW/BW

posts: 3598   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8776389
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Bor9455 ( member #72628) posted at 8:31 PM on Monday, February 6th, 2023

I decided today to cut the contact and stick to that as much as I can. I'm also trying to find a therapist who will help me get over that illusion and false beliefs and help me work on my marriage and my feelings.

Good for you. Were you not "no contact" with him before? As the saying goes around here, the affair never ends until contact ends and I'll be honest, I agree with that wholeheartedly. Perhaps I misunderstood you there, but if you've been in contact with this whole time, that would be at least in part a reason for you have been hung up on him and unable to get over him. No Contact may not be easy at first, but over time, if you stick to it, it will reach a point where you return to being indifferent towards him like you were before and like you are to most strangers.

Like yourself, I had an EA who was far away (Mexico), so I never met her at all. I had been sold the whole situation that she was in a restrictive and emotionally abusive marriage. Hell, she even convinced me that her husband was himself likely having an affair. Suffice it to say, I tell you this, because I can say "I've done your drug"...There was a time in which I implemented a soft no contact only to relent on it weeks or sometimes only days or even hours later. The last time that I went NC, I went fucking scorched Earth. I blocked on WhatsApp and then nuked my Facebook, Snapchat and Instagram accounts. I did that to show my wife that I was dead serious about changing my ways. This AP would find herself blocked on WhatsApp and then try to reel me back in through DMs on Facebook. I never had contact with her on Snapchat or Instagram, but seeing as how they were under the same "Facebook" banner I killed them all. The final time I meant it and was clear as day, even asking my wife to proofread the message for me, as I'm fluent in Spanish (I just hung up with a work call from South America), but I needed my wife as a native speaker herself to confirm and I certainly used that to show my wife I was different and serious about it.

Fast forward about two months after I had been firmly no-contact and my wife shows me a couple of messages from a brand new Facebook profile that had messaged her. By the tone it was clearly my AP reaching out to her under a fake alias. We have no way of verifying it but she said that she told my wife that there were a couple other guys that she was chatting with in the same way. Like I said, had no way to verify and even at that point I didn't care. Let her ruin the lives of another family. We debated getting a PI to track down her husband and her down in Mexico, but decided against it for cost. In retrospect, I feel bad since I tend to advocate that newly minted BS contact the OBS as soon as possible to let them know they are living a lie. Anywho, didn't hear a peep from this AP again until sometime in June/July 2020 (it was one of those months) and of course everyone was at home from the pandemic. One morning I wake up and first thing I see is an unread text message from an unknown number in Mexico. I think it said something like "I miss you a lot" or something short but along those lines. I didn't even unlock my iPhone, I rolled over to my wife and said, you need to see this and handed her my phone. At that point we had been NC for over 6 months and my wife and I agreed that any further contact from her would require me to change my phone number. Fingers crossed, it's now been another 2.5 years and neither of us has heard a peep from this AP.

Looking back on everything, I did get a lot out of my therapy where we talked about what she was and what she isn't. I never even met the woman, let alone spent any time in a relationship with her. I didn't have to share a house with her and her son. I didn't have the responsibility of taking care of bills for a family that included her and her son. I didn't have to share a bathroom or any other living spaces with her. I didn't have to sit down with her each month and pay bills and decide our next moves on debt, vacations, etc. All the "boring" stuff that comes with being married and parenting a family together, I didn't have to do any of that with her. I came to see her for what she was, a willing accomplice to me destroying my own life and my own marriage. She egged me on, encouraged me to grow further away from my wife, etc. Sure, I willingly did it and fully admit that I did. I never knew her, only the very controlled and deliberate version of her that she showed me. The analogy of all I could see in the big window of her and her life was a the window only slightly cracked, the rest of her was behind the unopened window.


I feel disgusted and guilty about myself when I see my husband crying and what damage I'm causing to him. He absolutely doesn't deserve such treatment. But I struggle to keep my boundaries up, and I need to stay strong.

You are right, your husband doesn't deserve any of the treatment he has gotten from you and it is a result of what you have done. You will have to live with that for the rest of your life, regardless of whether you stay married or divorce. You are guilty and it is fine to be disgusted with yourself. Take that to your therapist and put together a strategy for how you turn that into action. What actions can you take today to make yourself not that woman who cheated on her husband and made him feel that way? Disgust and guilt are fine feelings to feel, but you need to use them to do better with yourself and your life. Have you read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass? It was eye opening for me that my boundaries were pretty shit before I got to the EA and in fact after reading it, it was clear that I had at least one other EA earlier in our marriage. You can work with your therapist on how you establish firm boundaries and how you can work to enforce them....at which point it becomes your will and willingness to enforce them.

For me, as fate would have it, I manage a team of mostly women (6 of my 8 managers), and pretty women at that. I've had the talk with each of them that there are going to be hard boundaries as one of my EAs was from a prior decade when it was with a colleague. As a leader in medium sized organization, I do not need to have any accusations or even the appearance of inappropriate relationships with anyone on my team or in the company writ large. I'm a friendly and outgoing person, a very extroverted person and I genuinely care about my team, which is part of what makes me a strong leader, but I've also had to stop them every now and again as during our discussion we end up getting close to a potential boundary that we need to steer it away from that as I'm not interested in dating any of these woman or seeing them. Another thing I've done that I didn't do is we had a barbecue at our place last year after we moved and my whole team came with their families and significant others. I got a chance to meet husbands/boyfriends and my wife had the chance to meet with these women and she has actually developed a friendship with couple of them, they now text each occasionally. The boundary is that I've established with these women that I have a boundary and that I'm going to enforce it and I've enlisted my wife and their spouses as well.

Myself - BH & WH - Born 1985 Her - BW & WW - Born 1986

D-Day for WW's EA - October 2017D-Day no it turned PA - February 01, 2020

posts: 643   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2020   ·   location: Miami
id 8776396
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 ToffiCake (original poster new member #82799) posted at 1:41 PM on Tuesday, February 7th, 2023

No, it's a terrible idea to go and see the AP, so I'm glad you rejected it. However, it is an excellent idea for your husband to tell the AP's girlfriend about the affair. She deserves to know that her WBF has been keeping her on the line as Plan B. Also, if that relationship blows up, you may learn that she was actually Plan A, and your AP was just selling you a fantasy for his own entertainment. It will be logistically easier (if painful) if he abruptly abandons his pursuit of you to try and save his long term relationship.

I actually did that a while back, when we cut the contact for a month. Before it we had an argument, where I asked him "Have you thought, when you started all this, that you will destroy a family?", and he said "SO what? You went with it.". I've got so pissed that I told his girlfriend everything. Sadly, the girl probably didn't take me seriously, she forgave him and stayed with him. It's been over half a year where he kept lying to her that we still remain in no contact at all, and although my husband knew that we do and that we're trying to restore the friendship, she had no clue.

He claimed he doesn't really love her and he started to flirt with me, because he didn't feel anything to her, and we had "a good connection and I understood him". He claimed his relationship was dead before all this. However, he already told me twice that he will break up with her because he can't love two people, yet nothing happened. He even told me, after we argued and said sorry to each other after a month, that he actually broke up with her, two months later he told me that they actually didn't. He said that they talked about it, but didn't "officially" break up. I saved most of these conversations with him, because I knew that I might actually read it all again in the future.

She is still with him, he still didn't break up with her. And she hates me and she's mad at me, because, I suppose, he told her it was all my fault and who knows what else.

[This message edited by ToffiCake at 1:42 PM, Tuesday, February 7th]

WS
Married for over 12 years
Trying to reconcile

posts: 9   ·   registered: Jan. 28th, 2023   ·   location: Europe
id 8776481
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 3:05 PM on Tuesday, February 7th, 2023

Hi TC,

It's good that you're here and you sound genuine in wanting to do the work. There's good hope for you in healing and becoming a safe partner.

I decided today to cut the contact and stick to that as much as I can. I'm also trying to find a therapist who will help me get over that illusion and false beliefs and help me work on my marriage and my feelings.

As Yoda says, "Do or do not, there is no try." Do as Bor did and nuke all your social media and even your gaming. It's going to be hard as withdrawal is real. There's a triggering idea in the WS forum that the affair has to be mourned by the WS before the real healing (of the WS 1st) can begin. You can't mourn something that isn't fully dead.

My BH even said he's fighting an impossible battle here, because the whole image of my AP is in head and he stands no chance against it.

THIS is the crux of emotional affairs. You've built up a fantasy that doesn't exist. AP doesn't have any responsibility to you or your REAL life. He can say whatever, do whatever. When internet chat rooms starting becoming a thing, there was a trope about the overweight basement dwelling useless boy-man becoming 6ft tall, handsome and successful online (there's even a country song about it!). This is sadly one more example of that theme. How much of a catch is he if he's spending enough time online to seduce you? That kind of thing takes time. If you're not busy doing REAL things that REALLY matter, how useful/helpful are you in real life? Sorry, but I know that I wouldn't want a partner that is a useless slug sitting on the couch/desk texting and chatting and gaming all day.

she [BGF] hates me and she's mad at me, because, I suppose, he told her it was all my fault and who knows what else.

I wouldn't get hung up on her denial. There's likely too much enmeshment there in their relationship for her to think about leaving and restarting her life. It's easier to blame you than confront the truth.

I don't believe he is catfishing or something like that, he is just a person with poor boundaries and low self-esteem.

This is important to hang on to. As others have said, your therapy should focus quite a bit on who he was and wasn't. As you were BOTH people with poor boundaries and low-self esteem, that needs to be thoroughly explored by YOU in IC. There's something broken in you, holes in your bucket that you're not yet aware of. We all need (as WS's) to root out our "why's" and where our wounds are so we can heal and become better people, and hopefully, better partners.

Best of luck.

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

posts: 1159   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8776507
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Bor9455 ( member #72628) posted at 3:08 PM on Tuesday, February 7th, 2023

He claimed he doesn't really love her and he started to flirt with me, because he didn't feel anything to her, and we had "a good connection and I understood him". He claimed his relationship was dead before all this. However, he already told me twice that he will break up with her because he can't love two people, yet nothing happened. He even told me, after we argued and said sorry to each other after a month, that he actually broke up with her, two months later he told me that they actually didn't. He said that they talked about it, but didn't "officially" break up. I saved most of these conversations with him, because I knew that I might actually read it all again in the future.

I think it is worth reminding you something that I suspect you are familiar with from your own side of things, but cheaters lie and lie a lot. It is not loving behavior to lie to someone you care about over and over and over....It is a clear sign that you don't care enough about them to share with them the truth. He clearly had you on the hook there and as soon as he worried about losing you from that position, he turned and told you he broke up with her. He was feeding you whatever narrative he thought he needed to keep you engaged with him. It was straight up manipulative of him and I understand you went along with it.

Even if your AP seemed to be good to you, it is clear from a more distanced view that he was just a run of the mill cheater. He wasn't even married to this gal, not that marriage is some ironclad institution that prevents cheating, but it is a serious commitment to someone and he didn't even feel comfortable making that commitment to her and yet he had no problem walking all over his ties to her for you. What would make you think that if in some hypothetical future you were together that he wouldn't do the exact same thing? In other words, if he is willing to cheat to be with you, he is just as likely to cheat on you to be with someone else, including this betrayed girlfriend in the event she came crawling back.

Myself - BH & WH - Born 1985 Her - BW & WW - Born 1986

D-Day for WW's EA - October 2017D-Day no it turned PA - February 01, 2020

posts: 643   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2020   ·   location: Miami
id 8776509
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BraveSirRobin ( member #69242) posted at 5:53 PM on Tuesday, February 7th, 2023

And she hates me and she's mad at me, because, I suppose, he told her it was all my fault and who knows what else.

She hates you and is mad at you because you got involved with her boyfriend. Regardless of whose idea it was, you knowingly helped him betray her. He doesn't have to lie for her to feel justifiable anger and hatred towards you.

WW/BW

posts: 3598   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8776534
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 ToffiCake (original poster new member #82799) posted at 12:14 PM on Wednesday, February 8th, 2023

Thank you all so much for your insight. Your comments really helped me yesterday to go through all the turnmoil I woke up with and gave me the courage to carry on. Every day I wake up and it feels like I've been waking up from a nightmare. There are times I deeply miss my AP, to later realize that maybe I don't miss him at all because of how he behaved. It comes and goes like a storm. I have surges of feelings that I feel jealous of how good money he earns and that maybe I would be better of with him than my husband. And then I think of all the things he said to me and it goes away. I feel like I'm battling with a little devil inside me.

When internet chat rooms starting becoming a thing, there was a trope about the overweight basement dwelling useless boy-man becoming 6ft tall, handsome and successful online (there's even a country song about it!). This is sadly one more example of that theme. How much of a catch is he if he's spending enough time online to seduce you? That kind of thing takes time. If you're not busy doing REAL things that REALLY matter, how useful/helpful are you in real life? Sorry, but I know that I wouldn't want a partner that is a useless slug sitting on the couch/desk texting and chatting and gaming all day.

Thing is, he is in fact way less attractive than my husband, obese, asthmatic, 28-year-old. And coming from a Scandinavian country, he works in IT and earns good money, but works from home home mostly. We played games together in our free time. I was working at home too, but there became a point where we just exceeded our time together, and that time was more and more frequent.

I played with his friends. I felt like I belonged to their group. The group of friends that I've never had before in my life. We've been playing together for 3 years, also with my husband. Me and my husband were supposed to visit him in August last year, but my AP admitted himself he had feelings for me since November 2021 and I started noticing in May 2022, and it was when I started to fall for it, because I liked him. Eventually, we didn't go anywhere.

I liked him for making me laugh, I felt good when spending time with him. I felt jealous that he was able to afford what he wanted and I wanted that power too. I wanted to move abroad and make good money for myself. Problem is, it would require me to learn the language to a fluent level, and I would have to be fully dependable on my AP for a few years.

Here I depend on my husband, but less than if I moved there. We have a decent life, and he's earning most money. My education matters here. There, I would have to pass exams first to get the permission, and then nobody said anyone would hire me, because I'm not Scandinavian.

Anyway, now I can't even play World of Warcraft with my husband, because my AP is there all the time (since he's a nerd, takes care of the guild he's in, and his girlfriend is not at home most of the time). I just log in to play with my newly met friends if I have to, but other than that, I'm on a break. I can't enjoy it anymore because of his presence.

Even if your AP seemed to be good to you, it is clear from a more distanced view that he was just a run of the mill cheater. He wasn't even married to this gal, not that marriage is some ironclad institution that prevents cheating, but it is a serious commitment to someone and he didn't even feel comfortable making that commitment to her and yet he had no problem walking all over his ties to her for you. What would make you think that if in some hypothetical future you were together that he wouldn't do the exact same thing? In other words, if he is willing to cheat to be with you, he is just as likely to cheat on you to be with someone else, including this betrayed girlfriend in the event she came crawling back.

This thought has been with me for a long time. I told my AP once I will have trust issues with him. Especially when I know his sister cheated on her own husband too. His response was "but that doesn't mean we will do it to each other." Well, nobody knows that. I have never thought I would cheat on my husband, yet I did. My AP tried to convince me once to have that divorce, because, I quote him, "my mom divorced my dad because he was an alcoholic, and now she's happy with her new husband. My sister divorced her husband because she cheated on him, she has a new husband now, nobody likes him because he's a dick, but everyone accepted her choice. And there is a girl in my company who goes through divorce. It's sure hard, but they manage, and they want to be happy, just like you want to." My response to that was "Well yes, but everybody is different. My husband didn't do anything wrong to me except pushing me for a baby, because everybody pushed him. And I just burned out."

She hates you and is mad at you because you got involved with her boyfriend. Regardless of whose idea it was, you knowingly helped him betray her. He doesn't have to lie for her to feel justifiable anger and hatred towards you.

You're right. I haven't thought about it from this perspective. I've never been angry at the girl, I've never criticized her for anything. I simply don't know her. My AP, however, would try to turn me against my husband for a long time.

[This message edited by ToffiCake at 4:12 PM, Wednesday, February 8th]

WS
Married for over 12 years
Trying to reconcile

posts: 9   ·   registered: Jan. 28th, 2023   ·   location: Europe
id 8776623
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EvolvingSoul ( member #29972) posted at 8:23 PM on Wednesday, February 8th, 2023

Hi there ToffiCake,

Your story has so much in common with mine. I met my AP through an online roleplaying game too, although eventually (after 4 years) AP moved to my area and the affair became physical, which went on for another 3 years. After D-day I was ambivalent about whether to leave for AP or stay with BS. I committed to 6 months of NC and kept it, but with the idea that at the end of that time I would decide between AP and BS. At about 5 months I had an epiphany that the decision I needed to make wasn't "BS or AP" it was "mental health or not mental health". Even if BS and I divorced, AP was never going to be a mentally healthy choice for me, and I think the same is true for you and your AP. I think that is the reframe that can help you break your addiction to the affair chemicals.

Proceed with conviction and valor.

Strength and healing to you from this EvolvingSoul.

Me: WS (62)Him: Shards (57)D-day: June 6, 2010Last voluntary AP contact: June 23, 2010NC Letter sent: 3/9/11

We’re going to make it.

posts: 2566   ·   registered: Oct. 29th, 2010   ·   location: The far shore.
id 8776672
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Bor9455 ( member #72628) posted at 12:23 AM on Thursday, February 9th, 2023

I liked him for making me laugh, I felt good when spending time with him. I felt jealous that he was able to afford what he wanted and I wanted that power too. I wanted to move abroad and make good money for myself. Problem is, it would require me to learn the language to a fluent level, and I would have to be fully dependable on my AP for a few years.

Here I depend on my husband, but less than if I moved there. We have a decent life, and he's earning most money. My education matters here. There, I would have to pass exams first to get the permission, and then nobody said anyone would hire me, because I'm not Scandinavian.

2x4 coming, so duck if you aren't ready to hear this...

Are you really still comparing your BH, that you fucking devastated with your A, to this loser AP based on earning potential? I think we found one of the issues that is still bubbling under the surface, you are incredibly shallow and your obsession with earning is personally oft putting to me. Your AP could be Jeff Bezos level wealthy and your BH destitute and he would still always be a better man than someone of such fabulous wealth because he is morally bankrupt.

Seriously, this is one of the issues that you should really work with your therapist on. You are comparing your BH and AP and that is a comparison that your BH can never win and if that is still going on after all this time, if I were advising him, I would tell him to run for the exits because he will always be a fallback Plan B. Like I said in a previous post, your AP is a fantasy and not the reality sort of hum drum life that your BH brings to the table. There ain't nothing sexy about sitting down with your BH and planning a budget, maybe planning to start a family, going to the store to shop for paint colors for the living room, or going shopping for household supplies and groceries. Oh no, you've got super AP who is wealthy and can buy whatever he wants or at least he gives off that impression. I mean, did you see his bank statements and paystubs to confirm to you that he was making the kind of cash he lead you to believe? I mean, shit, I could stage my life in such a way to make people think I'm ultra wealthy. All it would take is a few pictures with expensive cars and a few expensive outfits and I could convince a non-discerning eye of wealth.

Myself - BH & WH - Born 1985 Her - BW & WW - Born 1986

D-Day for WW's EA - October 2017D-Day no it turned PA - February 01, 2020

posts: 643   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2020   ·   location: Miami
id 8776695
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 ToffiCake (original poster new member #82799) posted at 12:37 PM on Thursday, February 9th, 2023

Even if BS and I divorced, AP was never going to be a mentally healthy choice for me, and I think the same is true for you and your AP. I think that is the reframe that can help you break your addiction to the affair chemicals.


Thank you for the insight. Yes, it sounds very familiar and I know it. I know that he comes from a broken home and I come from such home too. I even told him once we're just bad for each other. I know he wouldn't be mentally strong enough to help me if things went south.

Are you really still comparing your BH, that you fucking devastated with your A, to this loser AP based on earning potential? I think we found one of the issues that is still bubbling under the surface, you are incredibly shallow and your obsession with earning is personally oft putting to me. Your AP could be Jeff Bezos level wealthy and your BH destitute and he would still always be a better man than someone of such fabulous wealth because he is morally bankrupt.

I know I sound terrible. I know I'm turning myself into a golddigger and this needs to stop. I don't want to justify myself. Neither do I want to justify the guy by saying that every data on his earnings is available online, even what cars he owns and his address; hell, even which door lead to his flat. That's not the case. The case is me coming from a home where there was poverty in my childhood, and neglect. Now, after being closer to my AP than my BH, after him poisoning me with thoughts of a better life (as he said "you deserve better life than this"), part of me started to feel greedy over what I already have. I didn't behave like that before, small things made me happy, spending time with my BH made me happy. There was even the time where I was earning the money for the family, and my husband didn't, because we were in a difficult situation. And despite everyone around criticizing this state, we didn't give up. Now this guy shows up, and out of the sudden I want more. I know that's the issue I need to address on a therapy. I need to stop dreaming. I want to rebuild what I have and I want to go back to enjoying it.

I assume I'm limerent. Every time I got close to the guy (and that happened twice), I would reject him. My gut would tell me - that's not it, he's just there to fill the void. Now that he's gone, I miss him more and I idealize "how things could have been with him".

WS
Married for over 12 years
Trying to reconcile

posts: 9   ·   registered: Jan. 28th, 2023   ·   location: Europe
id 8776748
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Lurkingsoul12 ( member #82382) posted at 3:05 PM on Thursday, February 9th, 2023

WS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 1:23 AM, Sunday, February 12th]

posts: 456   ·   registered: Nov. 12th, 2022
id 8776779
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Bor9455 ( member #72628) posted at 3:24 PM on Thursday, February 9th, 2023

The case is me coming from a home where there was poverty in my childhood, and neglect.

Not to make this about me, but I too grew up in a home of occasional poverty. I wouldn't say there was neglect because there was not. However, my dad was the only breadwinner and with only a high school education, his opportunities were limited. There were times where we were on Medicaid, on food stamps, free lunch programs at school, using the food banks, wore hand-me-downs (thankfully I had mostly boy cousins). We never starved or missed meals, so I'm fortunate there, but I know what it is like to be worried about rationing food, setting the thermostat to conserve energy, which meant it was either always cold or always hot in the house. I can empathize with you here on this. This is itself a trauma that you experienced, through no fault of your own. This is in fact, something that you should really dig into with your therapist. It could potentially be part of your whys that understanding and dealing with will help you to learn and grow.

Believe me, I get it, you weren't able to have "nice things" as a kid and you as an adult would like to get some of them. That impulse in and of itself is not entirely unhealthy. Spoiling yourself on occasion is not wrong, in fact, I tend to see it as a form of self-care, within certain bounds and within your means. Reasonable people can disagree as to what healthy amount of spoiling yourself is and that right there is a great bonding activity for you and your husband to work together on setting a budget for a financial goal about what may be reasonable.

Myself - BH & WH - Born 1985 Her - BW & WW - Born 1986

D-Day for WW's EA - October 2017D-Day no it turned PA - February 01, 2020

posts: 643   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2020   ·   location: Miami
id 8776783
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leafields ( Guide #63517) posted at 2:33 PM on Monday, April 17th, 2023

Bump per request.

BW M 34years, Dday 1: March 2018, Dday 2: August 2019, D final 2/25/21

posts: 3125   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2018   ·   location: Washington State
id 8787194
Topic is Sleeping.
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