SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm a 52 year old male who has been married for 25 years. My wife has lost over 100 pounds over the past year and looks incredible, and feels very good about herself for the first time in many years.

However, she has been going out more than usual over the past month, coming home later than usual, with people I do not know well. She has also been difficult to contact while she is out, which is not like her.

I confronted her about this, and she said nothing is going on, but told a few things that I did not entirely believe. Given my ongoing doubts, I checked her phone records, and see that she has been talking to and texting a guy many times per day and night, with calls lasting an hour plus. He lives one street away from us. When I confronted her about this, she said he was a client of hers, and they just talk a lot. However, she did not show me any texts, claiming they were all deleted, which I later confirmed that she deleted every single text after I confronted her, and they cannot be recovered. She was never the type to delete anything from her phone before this.

I did find a screenshot of a text from him that said "slow and deep for starters", which obviously does not sound like something an accounting client would be texting. I also found that on the day I suspected something was up, she made dinner for us and said she was "taking some next door to the neighbor", which she does from time to time. But I asked her yesterday and she admitted to "dropping it off on his porch because his mom is dying", while I was out shopping. She claims she has never been in his house, never met him in person, he's married, he's 63 years old, blah blah blah. She has claimed many things that have since been proven false. Also doesn't seem willing to share proof that he's a client at all.

Bottom line, I know for sure she crossed the line in at minimum an emotional affair, and more than likely physical.

She does not want to divorce, and I'm still on the fence, leaning towards staying, as this has never before happened. My concern is how I can ever trust her again if we remain together. During lunch yesterday I noticed she didn't have her phone out, which she always does. I asked about it, and she took it out of her pocket and turned away from me while unlocking it. She then set it face down for the rest of lunch. This was after I told her I will file for divorce if she is still in contact with him. Obviously she knows not to call or text him since I see the records, but there are tons of other ways to talk.

I don't want to track her each and every move, but I do feel its reasonable to be able to see her phone if there is nothing going on with him. Question is... how do I regain my trust? If she goes to work and goes out for drinks after, what should I expect her to do? We had a long talk tonight and she finally changed from defensive to apologetic.

I’m sorry you are experiencing this.

You can’t regain trust because she’s not being transparent or honest with you. You can’t—and shouldn’t—trust someone who’s hiding things and not being honest.

It doesn't sound like you have much to work with in terms of a remorseful WW. What you don't want to do is take the "security guard" approach to threats of D, say stop it it or I'll be forced to say stop it again. If the pain of staying the same is less than the pain of change, people won't opt for change. It's just human nature.

Here's a thought. Look at what you want. I mean what you really want. And move in that direction. At this point, she needs some radical wake up stuff, or she will just continue with what she is doing. Remember, you are the prize. I'd read up on the 180 and start putting yourself first. After a while, you may find the prospe t of being with your Ww less appealing.

Don't be surprised by her reactions as you detach.she may suddenly find you more desirable as you are now out of reach, or she may just love bomb you to get you back in your lane.

I am sorry to have to say this Friend, but your WW is still cheating on you. The only thing you can "trust" about your WW right now is that she is still carrying on with her affair.

Dear Concerned,

Why is your concern "how to rebuild trust" she is in an affair NOW. Rebuilding trust is done after she shows at least a little remorse and tells you the truth.

You are trying to what is called rugsweeping, you seem to be in denial. She won't even let you see her phone.

So start the process of knocking her out of the "fog" and protect yourself, get a lawyer. Start finding the truth because she is lying to you.

Never start R (reconciling) too soon, it never works.
Never do the "pick me dance"

This affair is 100 on her and it is on her to start rebuilding the damage.

Please take care of YOU

Respectfully,
Organic

Question is... how do I regain my trust?

You don't. It is her responsibility to earn it back, which she is making no effort to do at this time.

Trust is built off of someone that is trustworthy. To be trustworthy, honesty is paramount.

As you can see, it all starts with honesty......i.e. the truth.

Let's get to the truth first, then we can work toward trust.

This is heartbreaking. I know what you are feeling. You are scrambling in hopes to get things back to the way they were.

The truth of the matter is that you have only discovered the tip of the iceberg. You can’t even begin to trust until you know the truth.

Start digging. GPS and put a voice activated recorder (VAR) in her car. Put another VAR in the house. She will be speaking to him over the phone while you are gone and with him in close proximity, may also invite him over.

You need 100% access to her phone. The texts may be recoverable by software programs. Check for apps that allow communication other than text. My WW used FB messenger.

You are light years away from talking about trust again. She is being incredibly cruel at this point. You need to see that and get up off the mat and start recovering your life.

Sending you strength.

This is tough.

Weight loss has transformed her into an entirely new person and that is not an exaggeration.

The new attention is intoxicating. This is very common in both men and women.

This is going to be hard to deal with.

She may say she does not want divorce because you surprised her.

This needs to be at the heart of your discussions. Do you want to be with me?

She cannot hold on to secrets. This needs a full investigation.

Polygraph, written timeline, get an it professional to assist you with her phone.

The one thing I know for sure you need to do is go tell that man’s wife everything immediately.

Hopefully she will be able to provide you with more proof from her investigation.

If not hopefully at least you will have another set of eyes on him.

I agree with you that there is more to the story than you know. The phone secrecy just doesn't happen in a solid marriage. Your spouse can use your phone at any time. There should be nothing at all to hide. Yes, we can have some privacy when talking to people but not like she is doing. It is obvious she is hiding an affair, at least an EA as you said.

You have mentioned D to her and that is a good start, so she realizes that if she wants to talk to this guy for an hour at a time, make him dinner and text all day long she can do that, just not while remaining married to you. Perhaps you should see a D lawyer to understand your options and 'let her discover you went' to make it even more real. If you don't need it at least you will understand what D looks like because at this point it may happen. But it will help shaking her out of the fog, if shaking her out is possible at all.

You do need to know the truth and she is hiding it. Others will chime in on investigating more but VARs have really helped people learn the truth if she spends time in her car then that is a good location. Or if she works from home then there. But research how to set them up and use them effectively, people here can share that with you too.

Since she may have turned a corner to apologetic, the book Not Just Friends might help if you both read it.

Thanks to all who responded. Couple of follow ups...

I forgot to mention in my initial post that over the past 6 months, we had been getting along much better, intimacy got much better, etc. I did not see any contact between her and the other guy until December. Her behaviors towards me did not change during her affair. Not sure if it matters at this point. She still completely denies having physical contact with him, but I am making her take an STD test.

In terms of what I want, I would like us to continue in our path of reconnecting as we were over the past 6 months. This event uncovered a lot of things that may have led her to stray, not that it gives her an excuse to do so. I talked to a therapist last night, and it helped me somewhat. She was the one who mentioned having to regain some level of trust, which will take time.

I have just asked my wife to enable location permissions for Life 360, I feel that this will give me some level of trust that she is not still seeing this guy.

Outside of this, and trying to better monitor her phone, I'm not sure what else I can do.

With all due respect, you're still making excuses for her and surveying her.

Weight loss has nothing to do with her cheating, she always had it in her, present lifestyle circumstance and opportunity has now made it possible.

Stop asking for her phone, if she wants to cheat she will find a way.

The minute you stop treating her like a child but like an adult whose choices have consequences then you'll bring about the change needed.

I have just asked my wife to enable location permissions for Life 360, I feel that this will give me some level of trust that she is not still seeing this guy.

This just tracks her phone. I think you'll find the phone stays behind or it gets turned off. You know there's smoke here. Just from the screenshotted text. Calls over an hour mean deep emotional bonding. With this level of bonding and living that close I'd be stunned if it wasn't a full blown PA. It's clear she has been calibrating her lies to meet what she feels you know. Someone doing that isn't someone that is even trying to rebuild your trust. She hasn't even admitted to the inappropriateness that about which you have clear evidence.

Good chance she backs off for now or at least goes underground to the point that she feels you won't know what she's doing. She's not ready to give up her cake eating just yet. That can and probably will change at any time. Don't sit back and wait until she blindsides you with I want a D. At this point I would disconnect (180/gray rock) and proceed with the assumption you are headed towards D or another affair. This means speaking with a lawyer to see what that looks like. Reach out to his spouse and let her know what you've found out. That'll help you confirm he's actually 63 and married and give you another eye on them.

[This message edited by grubs at 2:22 PM, Wednesday, January 11th]

I don't feel I am making excuses for her, the fact is that once she lost the weight she began going out more. Her claim is that pre-weight loss, she did not feel comfortable going out when extremely overweight, etc. I recall telling her many times back then she needed to go out more, she almost never left the house.

Since the weight loss, was she going out due to better confidence or with cheating intentions? I'll never know for sure. Has she always had intentions of cheating over our 25 years of marriage? I'll never know for sure. Has she had any other affairs over these 25 years? I'll never know for sure, but I never had any suspicions, and I feel I would have detected something, just like I did with this event. Was this affair just emotional, or physical? I'm nearly certain it was physical, but does it really matter at this point? Is she still in contact with him? Again, I'll never know for sure.

So this simply comes down to 2 options, stay with her, or leave her.

If I stay with her, I want to be confident that she has broke off all contact with this man, and that I can go through my days without feeling the need to track her every move.

If I leave her it will turn my world upside down in so many ways. I want to make sure that I am ready to leave before filing papers.

Once I get over the shock of all of this I do need to work on myself, and our relationship assuming we stay together. Many things were lacking over many years, due to faults on both sides.

I sound quite indecisive, because I honestly am at this point. I'm still numb.

How do you quote other messages here?

I confirmed he is 63 and married based on his phone number and property record.

I agree that there is nothing 100% foolproof that will prevent her from seeing him. But if I at least have a fair amount of assurance that it has ended I will be willing to begin working on me, and us, and see how things progress.

I have seen a few references to 180/grey rock. What exactly is this?

I have read many stories here and in some cases, during affair intimacy between WS and BS is really great. Don't really know how and why because there are many factors at play here like guilt of affair, thrill of affair etc. In some case, the outside attention, thrill of affair, secrecy, sexting between WS and AP keeps WS on edge all the time and this is kind a turn on for them and makes them 'alive'. May be that could be the reason why intimacy between WS and BS is great in such cases because they are always horny. So if she was having affair for the past 6 months then this could be the reason why intimacy was so good for you for the past 6 months. So don't cloud your judgement now for past 6 months intimacy.
As for that therapist, what did she actually mean when she talked about gaining trust? Who should gain whose trust? What steps did she advice you to take to regain trust? And who should follow those steps? Did she atleast acknowledge what your wife did or doing is complete wrong and all the blame goes on your wife?? She is not blameshifting, right? Where was your wife when you were talking to therapist? Without your wife present there, without your wife acknowledging that the trust has been broken and she is responsible for it, without your wife agreeing to do everything that takes to rebuild that trust there is nothing you can do about it. Right now you are in shock and your are scared. You are not thinking straight. Take some time away from your wife, if possible. Go to a place where you feel relaxed and can think with clarity. You can reach out to your trusted friends for comfort and shoulder. Take some time to get out of this shock. Don't play pick me dance. That has never worked for anyone.

Was this affair just emotional, or physical? I'm nearly certain it was physical, but does it really matter at this point?

100% Absolutely.

What makes a relationship intimate? Attraction; Vulnerability; HONESTY.

Do you think, if she just recommits, and goes back to the 'good times' behavior, that this is just going to dissipate into the ether? It won't. I'm not suggesting that you don't reconcile, but I am certainly suggesting that you don't attempt to reconcile without knowing the truth. Go and look through the threads on the first couple of pages of the Reconciliation Forum. I don't know how many members we have here that have been 10, 15, 20+ years without infidelity.....but have had horrible flashbacks/triggers because they never dealt with the infidelity properly when it occurred. They admittedly swept it under the rug and buried their head in the sand hoping for what you wish right now. Your wife's infractions may have been major or minor, but the point is , YOU DON'T KNOW. That is no way to rebuild trust and intimacy.

Work on getting the truth. Then make your decisions moving forward.

I agree that honesty is key in a relationship, and it was obviously lost during this affair.

I've asked her many times to be HONEST with me, and she continues her claim that it was not physical, just a lot of talking.

Yet when I asked how the "slow and deep for starters" text meant anything besides sexual, she said it was something about his deck (yes, deck, not dick). Unreal.

Hi OP, so sorry you are in this situation. If she is adamant this is the truth, make her to put her money where her mouth is. Make her schedule and pay for a polygraph. That should give you your answer. If she starts making excuses like "Those things aren't accurate!" or deflecting like "I can't believe you don't trust me!" you have your answer. A truthful person would be happy to go through this to prove their innocence. It doesn't matter if you yourself do or do not believe in the veracity of polygraphs. This is her litmus test. Even if she agrees, be prepared for the parking lot confession. Put a time limit on scheduling. Don't let her drag her feet. Take care of yourself.

If she is adamant that it was not physical, one way of finding out is asking her to do a polygraph, think you are allowed to set 5 questions, make sure they are Yes/No answers, so no open ended questions, they possibly would not allow you to ask those anyway. Ensure she knows that if she fails you will inform this guy's wife.

I just want to say you need to inform the guys wife immediately.

That slow and deep comment was not about a deck. You already know that.

Not only do you know that no human being on earth would ever believe that.

Telling the wife may not get you much but at a minimum it will put a set of eyes on him.

But she may go into investigation mode and take care of a lot of your work for you.

Also it sends a message that you will take action if there is any attempt at a romantic relationship with your wife.

If there were a top 3 rules it would be

1 see a lawyer (so you know what you are dealing with in case things go south and what protections you can put in place for your self) you don’t have to file for divorce.

2 no contact ( she will never breathe the same air as that human being ever again) he goes to the same bars then she is never going to them again without you. No contact of any kind ever again.

3 tell the other spouse. It has to be done. Immediately.

Someone recommended the book "not just friends" it’s a good book. I recommend you get it and read it yourself first.

She uses a concept called "walls and windows". It means there needs to be walls between her and other potential people who are dangers to the marriage and windows between you and your spouse.

This is what needs to be discussed between you and her if she really wants this marriage.

You will never trust her as long as you think she is still lying and keeping secrets.

And she cannot open herself up to you fully as long as she is lying and keeping secrets.

Both of you are scared about losing this long relationship as well you should be. It’s totally understandable.

She is also scared if she tells you the truth it could be over. And she is not completely wrong. If it’s bad you may not get over it.

But it has to be done.

You have to be real partners. 100% working for each other.

she put herself in a tough spot. There were going to be tough consequences.

I agree with the poly. She also needs to write a timeline of her affair. Sometimes it’s easier to confess in writing than face to face. It’s a good exercise for her as she can see in real time the steps she was taking moving into an affair and how she was betraying you.

Also there are IT professionals that may be able to help retrieve messages. Have you tried to run recovery software yourself?

You do need to move forward and work on the relationship going forward so it is probably a good idea to get these things out of the way as soon as possible.

The weight loss is tough as it really does transform you into and entirely different person.

As long as you can stand strong that you are willing to divorce I think marriage counseling can be a good idea.

Just make sure you shop around for a good one. There are shitty doctors, mechanics and there are terrible counselors.

I’m so sorry. You’re in a tough spot.

I wish you the best of luck.