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Wayward Side :
I’m losing him and I don’t know how to stop it

Topic is Sleeping.
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 TryingToFixWhatIBroke (original poster new member #80391) posted at 1:56 AM on Sunday, June 26th, 2022

Background

Me: WS 42 F

Him: BS 43 M

D-Day 10/12/2021

Affair(s) 7/2014, 9/2022 and 10/2022

Hi- this is my first time posting and even starting to write this I don’t feel like I deserve forgiveness. I’m lost and confused, I don’t know how I ended up where I am. Please bare with me if this post goes all over the place, I’ve never written this out before.

In July of 2014 I had an online affair with an old coworker… no emotions, all pics and videos.

November 2020, H found about it. He left for days, came home and made me submit to him, while he recorded it. He said after that, he’d forget about the affair.

He did not, he baca me so angry and so mean. I had a hard time understanding his emotions. It had been 6.5 years and it meant nothing to me. I understand this mindset was wrong, but I can’t take it back.

We had 2 kids between the time the affair ended and the time he found out, things had been amazing.

I hated him for the way he was treating me and I used that anger to shift any blame off myself.

That’s when affair #2 started to develop, also online, this time it was not sexual, but emotional. It was someone who listened and genuinely seemed to care about me when I didn’t feel like H did. We met in an online game and I looked forward to talking to him. We both realized we couldn’t realistically be together and the affair started to fizzle our.

Bring on #3… also from the same game, conversation was easy and he was very flirty. It made me feel good. We planned to meet and did. He was not what I expected and we never did anything physical, not even a kiss, but he did stay on the couch of my hotel room. Maybe had he been what I visualized in my head, things would have happened, but I don’t know that’s true. I remember sitting in the hotel room wishing I was home… I should have left.

H found about A2 on 10/12 and A3 shortly after. He was going through all my messages on every platform and even obtained deleted messages.

We’ve been back and forth since, but he told me this week that I’m not trying hard enough and he’s done. I’m crushed. He’s so distant and kind of cold, but polite. He doesn’t want to be touched. He said he’d like to stay married for the kids. I told him I want to stay married for us and he responded to that with a look of disgust.

I don’t know what to do. I don’t want to lose my husband, but he seems so miserable with me. Is it fair for me to fight for something he doesn’t want? That he’s expressed he doesn’t want?

I don’t really know what I plan on getting out of this post. Maybe I just needed to tell my story.

[This message edited by TryingToFixWhatIBroke at 4:05 AM, Sunday, June 26th]

posts: 14   ·   registered: Jun. 24th, 2022   ·   location: United States
id 8741984
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thatwilldo ( member #59326) posted at 5:54 PM on Sunday, June 26th, 2022

TryingToFixWhatIBroke,

Welcome to SI.It's obvious that you're suffering greatly from the choices you've made. You'll need to think carefully about how and why you allowed yourself to get involved with these men online. There are a couple of books I can recommend: Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass and How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair by Linda MacDonald. The first one helps you to understand what an affair is and how people get involved. The other one helps to see how you can avoid making things worse by your actions and words going forward...also, perhaps, how you can make things better.

You'll have to consider if you really want to be with a man who filmed you having sex with him. To me that is very degrading.

If you do want to stay in the marriage, you'll have to be completely honest from now on. This is so hard to do, but if you don't, you're robbing your husband of his choice to live a life knowing the truth of what he has in a marriage and a wife. Also, your husband will never forget what you've done. He's humiliated and he doesn't trust you now. Building trust will take years.

I am a wayward who lied for years telling myself that it would be better for both of us if I kept things to myself. Well, I just about lost the marriage in the process and I certainly lost my integrity...not an easy thing to get back. I'm working on it and it's a process. Tell the truth.

Your screen name is interesting. I think we all start out, after D-Day trying to fix what we broke, but you need to understand that you are what's broke and you need the fixing.

I hope I haven't been too harsh with you. I don't intend to be. Keep posting and asking questions and you can become a better person. It's worth the struggle.

[

Don't do as I did. Do as I say.
No private messages

posts: 302   ·   registered: Jun. 22nd, 2017
id 8742048
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Bulcy ( member #74034) posted at 8:30 PM on Sunday, June 26th, 2022

Trying,

Welcome to SI. You'll get a lot of good advice on here. Take this advise to heart and follow it. DO NOT do as I have done and trickle truth (TT), lie, minimise, deny, blame shift, omit details of the affair.... The list goes on.

At the top of this forum is a pinned thread "Things that every WS needs to know" read this...All the time.

Get a copy of "How to help your spouse heal from your affair" - Linda MacDonald. A short book, Read it more than once.

Come back on here and ask questions from those who have managed to walk the tough road out of wayward behaviour. I'm not really in a place to offer any more advice than this at this time.

Good luck

WH (50's)

Multiple sexual, emotional and online affairs. Financial infidelity and emotional abuse. Physical abuse and intimidation.

D-days 2003, 2017, multiple d-days and TT through 2018 to 2023. 28 years of destructive and health damaging choice

posts: 375   ·   registered: Mar. 12th, 2020   ·   location: UK
id 8742066
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DaddyDom ( member #56960) posted at 12:16 AM on Monday, June 27th, 2022

TryingToFixWhatIBroke

Welcome. For what it's worth, most WS's don't even take the step of reaching out and asking for help in the first place. Simply being here is an accomplishment and a step in the correct direction. You could have thrown your hands up and walked out, and not have had to deal with any of the blowback. You chose to stay and fight for your marriage. So give yourself credit where it is due. It's important, after doing so much damage, to remember that we're not hopelessly broken.

Look, first, the bad news. Sometimes infidelity is a deal killer. Full stop. You could say and do all the right things and become a whole, new person, it might not save your marriage. That's a reality that you should prepare for. Most affairs end in divorce. Take a few moments to do some mental planning and math. If things go south, where will you go, how will you live, etc? I'm not advising you to leave, I'm just suggesting you have a contingency plan if that choice is made for you.

Now, the mediocre news. Even if R is attempted, the common amount of time for the couple to recover is typically from 2-5 years once discovered. And every instance of trickle-truth or further dishonesty only resets the trust meter to absolute zero, regardless of where the trust meter was prior. Regardless of R or D, you have a long, hard road ahead of you. If you D, you have to rebuild your life without him (do you have kids?). If you R, you have to rebuild both yourselves and the marriage. Either way, this is not going to end quickly or without a great deal of work and pain.

Lastly, the good news. R is possible. There are several couples here who have successfully R'd, even been remarried. It's rare, I'll admit. I am in year 6 of R however and still working together every day to build a better relationship than we had before. And that starts with fixing yourself.

Regardless of the outcomes of your affair, there is an opportunity to be had here. You had not one, but at least three affairs. Some even after you had been discovered. That's ballsy as hell, right? Why would you do that? Or maybe the better question is, why would anyone purposely keep poking the bear with the stick after the bear has woken up and gotten pissed? Self-sabotage anyone? The sad truth is that people who have dignity, integrity and self-respect, don't have affairs, not only because of what it would do to their spouses and families but because they would never dishonor or diminish themselves in such a way. If some guy hit on my wife knowing she was married, she'd give him hell. But WS's, we chose differently. And that says WAY more about us than anything else. You hurt your husband deeply, yes. But you hurt yourself first. And it is so very, very important, for your own sake, to figure out why you did that? What did you get from the affair? Why were so destructive about it? What about you in your lifetime, perhaps childhood, fucked your sense of self-worth? Were you ever molested when you were younger? WS's are often born from personal trauma and feelings of inadequacy. Abuse and neglect in families is more common than most think, and usually aren't obvious outside the home. When we stuff that crap in a box and lock it in the corners of our minds... it doesn't go away. It just makes us feel like crap, and so we do our best to make that come true.

Start with the books and reading materials recommended above, they'll give you a good start towards understanding some of your own thinking, and it may help your husband as well. In addition however, I strongly suggest getting a good therapist (perhaps someone versed in infidelity) for yourself. And go. As often as you can afford to. And keep coming back here for support.

Last thing. This is a great place. Not all the advice here will be "friendly", sometimes a "tough love" approach is warranted. But it will honest, and heartfelt, and coming from a place of trying to be helpful. The WS's here have all walked in your shoes, so you don't have to feel alone or not understood. I wish there was a quick, easy fix I could bottle up and send you, but for now, just breathe, and then get to work.

Me: WS
BS: ISurvivedSoFar
D-Day Nov '16
Status: Reconciling
"I am floored by the amount of grace and love she has shown me in choosing to stay and fight for our marriage. I took everything from her, and yet she chose to forgive me."

posts: 1446   ·   registered: Jan. 18th, 2017
id 8742088
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sundance ( member #72129) posted at 3:06 PM on Monday, June 27th, 2022

Hi Trying ... please take advantage of "the healing library" tab on this site (links, books, etc)-- a lot of good information there to help! best, sunny

Rusty: You scared?Linus: You suicidal?Rusty: Only in the morning.

posts: 142   ·   registered: Nov. 21st, 2019
id 8742144
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 TryingToFixWhatIBroke (original poster new member #80391) posted at 3:41 PM on Monday, June 27th, 2022

I’m not sure how to reply to individual comments (or if that’s possible)

I appreciate you all taking the time to respond to me. I ordered the 2 books recommended my ThatWillDo and they’ll arrive today. I will start reading as soon as it comes in.

posts: 14   ·   registered: Jun. 24th, 2022   ·   location: United States
id 8742152
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 4:00 PM on Monday, June 27th, 2022

Hi TTFWIB,

To reply to individual comments, highlight from the post, copy and paste. Then highlight and select the " button above or below the text entry box. Or you can @soandso in your message.

I'm sorry you're here. It's going to be a rough ride. Sounds like you guys rugswept the first affair and buried it. It might seem like your H eventually forgot the 1st one, but really, he's been choking down the shit sandwich for years. 6 years later, 2 more affairs.

You made comments about your BH being so mean after the A's. Can you understand a bit why? He's just had the woman who was supposed to have his back stab him in the back not once, but 3 TIMES.

No offense, but I'm not exactly believing you about affair #3 not being physical. You were in the hotel, you were getting flirty on the game. You made bad decision after bad decision and allowed yourself to get that far. What was to stop you at that point taking it all the way?

If your BH has had that much hurt and anger over the years from your 1st A, it's energy that has to go somewhere. When we rugsweep, that cuts off the direct route of expressing our anger to the source. Instead, the energy tends to come out sideways in the form of passive aggression, stonewalling or complete lack of emotional intimacy. This might have created a void in your M that you felt subconsciously, leading to your draw to gaining validation outside the M.

What you've got to start focusing on right now is becoming honest and transparent with your BH. Give him access to all devices, all apps, all social media and financials. Delete your game. Delete all games with chat options. Tell him all. When he asks a question, answer the question. If you don't remember right away, tell him you can't remember off the top of your head, but you will do your best to remember.

Don't do as many of us WS's did- we made a lot of mistakes. I TT'd my BH for months. I blamed him for everything, didn't take accountability and put him through a ton of shit after Dday. Please learn from us on the site and don't do as we did.

How to help your spouse heal is one of the best resources for performing triage for a BS after DDay. Read it and really think on it and then DO IT.

Let go of the outcome on this. Right now you're scared and frightened about your world turning upside down. Think of your BH and how he must feel in all this. Trying to save the M at this point (in an active manner) could be seen by him as manipulation. He said you're not doing enough work for him. What work are you doing? Are you in IC? If not, find one right now!! If you have to sacrifice to afford one, do it. Whatever little luxuries or new clothes or brand name whatever you have to give up to pay for it- DO IT.

Your BH is not going to feel safe enough to even consider R until you start driving your own recovery bus. There is something seriously broken in you. Your M may be broken, there may be unhealthy dynamics between the 2 of you, but YOU are the one who decided to have an A. Why? What in you allowed yourself to make shitty decision after shitty decision? What did you use as your excuses/ rationale? What lies did you tell yourself about what you were doing? What lies do you tell yourself about yourself?

Until you fix the holes in your self, you will not be a safe receptacle for BH's love and trust.

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

posts: 1190   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8742158
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thatwilldo ( member #59326) posted at 3:48 PM on Tuesday, June 28th, 2022

Trying,

I ordered the 2 books recommended my ThatWillDo and they’ll arrive today. I will start reading as soon as it comes in.

I'm glad you're taking steps to become a better person. I think, if I were your husband I would consider it a step forward if you were to stop all online gaming. (I agree with MGander on this) You will need to establish boundaries. Shirley Glass has a great way to establish boundaries saying that you need to have windows and transparency with your spouse and put up walls to protect your marriage from others.

he baca me so angry and so mean.


I know how much that hurts, but he is in terrible pain and men tend to show pain through anger. Try to be understanding.
It was one of the hardest things for me to accept responsibility for my choices and not blame them on AP or my BS. The books will help you to understand.

One step at a time...as they say.

Don't do as I did. Do as I say.
No private messages

posts: 302   ·   registered: Jun. 22nd, 2017
id 8742297
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 TryingToFixWhatIBroke (original poster new member #80391) posted at 4:50 PM on Tuesday, June 28th, 2022

I stopped all online gaming in November 21. I stay away from that stuff and anything else that will further harm my marriage. I have been trying, but I guess just not enough. I listen to him when he needs to vent, I don’t criticize, I don’t get defensive, I just listen and I apologize when appropriate during his venting sessions. I think my approach has been much more passive than it needs to be and there lies the problem. I’m just kind of stuck on what to proactively do or say to help him feel safe in our relationship again. I miss him terribly.

We have a 4 and almost 7 year old and I worry they are picking up on the distance between us.

It turns out I had previously listened to the book by Linda MacDonald on audible. Im happy to have a paperback I can pick up and read and mark certain parts that spoke so loudly to me. I started "Not Just Friends" last night and I feel like there are certain parts written just for me.

posts: 14   ·   registered: Jun. 24th, 2022   ·   location: United States
id 8742305
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BraveSirRobin ( member #69242) posted at 2:07 AM on Wednesday, June 29th, 2022

Hi, Trying. Welcome to SI from a fellow "found out years later" WW.

November 2020, H found about it. He left for days, came home and made me submit to him, while he recorded it. He said after that, he’d forget about the affair. He did not, he became so angry and so mean.


What do you mean by "submit to him?" I'm not looking for graphic details, just the big picture. Some kinds of submission (painfully comprehensive honesty, loss of privacy, acknowledging fault, listening and validating the BS's grief and anger) are considered necessary and appropriate for R, even though they're hard to provide. Other demands, especially physical/sexual ones, are more controversial, and some cross over into abuse.

I will say, without knowing what he asked you to do, that many BS look for some kind of magic bullet that will help them to put the affair in the past. It hurts so much that they try to follow any path out of their pain. He may have believed the promise when he made it and then discovered that the well of grief and anger just kept refilling as fast as it drained. My BH thought he could rugsweep, but the pain surged back in waves for decades until he finally addressed it.

I had a hard time understanding his emotions. It had been 6.5 years and it meant nothing to me.


If it was meaningless, why did you do it? I don't mean that sarcastically or hypothetically. There was something that made betrayal worthwhile. Have you figured out that motivation?

As far as his emotions, one of the concepts we press pretty hard here is agency -- the right of every person to know the reality of their relationship and to make decisions based on that knowledge. WS are terrible at understanding the value of agency. What we value is control. Somewhere inside ourselves, we know this is wrong, and so we tell ourselves an assortment of lies to justify why controlling another person is appropriate. These lies may include:

1. They're better off not knowing the truth. We tell ourselves that it would only hurt them to learn of the infidelity. This variant is sometimes employed when the affair is still ongoing ("my cheating has nothing to do with my home life, and no one will get hurt as long as no one finds out"). Other times, the affair ended organically, and the WS rationalizes that it would be pointless to rock the boat when the past can't be changed.

2. They already know what they need to know. Most WS minimize their offenses, claiming the A was virtual when it was physical, or admitting to kissing when it was actually a blow job. In my case, I voluntarily confessed my affair, and even led with the critical points of penetrative sex and "I love yous." However, having informed my BH of that, I decided unilaterally that he didn't need to know the full extent of my sexual and romantic involvement. I told myself that the many nights OM and I spent together were just more of the same things I already disclosed and therefore irrelevant to the decision BH had to make. Of course, if they were truly irrelevant, there would have been no reason to keep them secret. I knew, but refused to admit, that those "details" would change his entire understanding of the nature of the affair.

3. They don't deserve to know. This is the "resentment creates entitlement" model, where some offense on the part of the BS -- real or imagined -- is used to justify both the affair and the coverup.

4. I'm protecting someone else with my lies. Usually (and ironically), it's the wayward's kids who are the alleged beneficiaries of this deception. The rationale goes that the WS would prefer to get an honest divorce but can't because they don't want to break up their family. The affair is just a tool to cope with the dead bedroom or the neglect or the criticism, allowing the WS to stick it out until the kids leave the nest. Another version of this is the "knight in shining armor" (KISA) who only started an affair to help the poor AP, who was abandoned, abused or otherwise in desperate need of the WS's help. In that scenario, the BS is so safe and lucky in their marriage to the WS that surely it's only fair that they share the crumbs of their good fortune.

All of these are bullshit, and we in this forum know it better than anyone, because we were all accomplished bullshit artists. There's no better place than the Wayward Side to explore how and why you ended up in this mess and to build a life where you're free of deception, both of other people and of yourself. It's hard to learn, because for so long, lies and control have been your only armor against the things that terrify you. But trust us: you can do it, and you have no idea how good authenticity feels.

We had 2 kids between the time the affair ended and the time he found out, things had been amazing.


That's the thing, though: it only looked amazing to him because he didn't know the truth, and now that he does know, it's too late. It is unfixable. Had you been honest with him, he might have chosen to end your marriage before you were bound together by children. Now that you share those kids, you're a permanent fixture in his life. Even if he leaves you, anyone else he marries will become a stepparent in a blended family. You cannot change that, can't rewind the clock and give him the power to choose a different future.

This was true of me, too. Even if my BH had left me on D-Day 2 (no new affair, but more disclosures), he would be in his 80s before any new relationship would equal the number of years he had spent with me. He's not going to start a new family with someone 20 years younger; that's not who he is, and even if he did, I'd still be entwined in every memory of his youth. I stole that formative time from him. It took him years to forgive it. Some BS never can; some -- and this is perfectly legitimate -- never even try.

I can promise that if you do the work, you can be healthier, happier, and a better future partner. It may not be with your husband; after three affairs, that ship may have sailed. Maybe he'll leave you, or maybe you'll determine that staying isn't wise for you, either. But whatever road you choose, we can help make it one of integrity.

WW/BW

posts: 3676   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8742416
Topic is Sleeping.
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