SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I have refrained from posting on your thread because I agree completely with foeverlabeled. I just had nothing to add. I did see something this morning that I wanted to chime in

"I love my wife but I don’t know if I am in love with her"

I think you are confused on some things.

Love is not just the fuzzy warm feelings. Love is not a hit if dopamine. It’s not passionate sex.

Love is effort, intention, investment, commitment.

Our butterflies come from our own value of something.

If you out all your time and energy into everyone but your wife, see her as a sex dispenser, someone to keep your house running and your children taken care of - that’s just using her.

Love comes from our internal fountain of our own love. It’s not external from us.

We only get one life no you are denying your wife and yourself of having that. You are denying your children of seeing it so they can emulate it. No one in this situation is getting what they need or deserve.

You are so addicted to the dopamine of new feelings, new sex, new attention you are missing the whole boat.

So how can you get in this boat?

It starts with learning some of these things that you need to focus on in IC:

1. How can you light yourself up differently? What can you find to get excited about your life?

For me it was learning to appreciate simple things- spending time hiking, being present and mindful when I am with my husband, kinds, friends. Finding a hobby or something to learn about that I can’t wait to do again. I know this is counterintuitive- but right now all you do is source people for that and place value on them by how well they can light you up. Your wife is so fucking tired from being everything to everyone that it’s translating to you as not being IN love.

2. We only love others as much as we love ourselves. If we love ourselves our cup is full and we have our fountain to share with others. There is a difference between selfishness and self love. People without self love will become overly selfish or overly giving with no balance.

How do we do this in a shame spiral? We don’t. But the shame and guilt is a cycle that you have probably had most of your life and it’s caused a snowball effect to where you don’t even know who you are without it.

3. I highly suspect you have addiction issues that need treatment. I am not saying I know what they are but it’s pretty classic that you keep looking for quick fixes that make you feel good over deep work and lasting success that comes from it. Many of us ws are like this.

It’s natural to want to scramble and try to keep your marriage but that panic in the long run is going to keep you from doing the hard work while you grasp for bandaids.

Here is the truth though-you have no idea at all the trauma you have caused your wife. If you did you would not give two shits about her contacting this piece of shit that helped you destroy her. She is looking for answers and you are not a reliable source for that. In fact you need to be on her side with every single thing she needs. Do not in any way protect this woman or any other woman you have fucked.

For this reason I particularly agree with foreverlabeled- get very curious about what your wife is going through. I suspect your own guilt and shame prevents you from doing this because it’s unbearable to have someone confirm your worst suspicion about yourself.

However, that’s what is needed to lance the wound me drain the puss. I am not talking about your wife’s wounds here, I am talking about yours. Becoming very present, very honest, and very aware of the damage you caused and becoming a stand up man is what you need in order to start getting the self respect you need in order to start earning it from others.

It’s a quest. It’s long and hard, but if you do it everything in your life will improve because your perspective will improve.

You need to accept you may not be able to save this marriage while at the same time doing all I am talking about in hopes it does.

I agree too you should read how to help your spouse heal and anything you can get your hands on in that vein so you at least have a chance of keeping the marriage while you work through your shit. But accept you can not control that outcome otherwise you will continue to manipulate her with whatever you narrowly understand. This is more damage and hasn’t she had enough?

I would also reccomend sending her to have some time for her self while you take care of all the animals and the kids. Put your all into it. This is not to win her back. This is human decency, your wife needs a minute, she is completely overwhelmed and devastated.

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:14 PM, Friday, March 25th]

hikingout
I slept in my van at work for the week.my wife does need time away I would love for her to be able too..

MIgander
No it is not crisis is not over..I am trying here I am done with the sorrys I am done trying to make her believe me I know she can't and won't...I am just trying now to open a dialog with her..some way to have a civil conversation with getting my head bitten off..which usually get me all mad and then I start to shutdown and just not care what I do..

.I am just trying now to open a dialog with her..some way to have a civil conversation with getting my head bitten off.

Four pages in and some of the most respected and healed WS’s have given their time to guide you and help you through this process. Rather than taking that information and using it to begin to do some introspection, you have commented multiple times as to how your BW’s behavior is an annoyance to you.

She is not your roadblock. You are.

No it is not crisis is not over..I am trying here I am done with the sorrys I am done trying to make her believe me I know she can't and won't...I am just trying now to open a dialog with her..some way to have a civil conversation with getting my head bitten off..which usually get me all mad and then I start to shutdown and just not care what I do..

Look, I’m in a very similar position to you. I’ve lied and denied for years. I’ve blames shifted, while not realising I’m doing it. I have blamed my BS for being unreasonable in wanting to talk about my affairs when I was "not in the mood" or not accepting the full extent of what I have done over the years and not wanting to acknowledge the impact it has had on BS. I had not even considered the impact it had had on me. I’ve tried to protect myself and at the same time protected the affairs and affair partners. To even consider the possibility that everything I’ve done is abuse!! Me, an abuser? Never….I’m a nice guy who has made a "mistake or two".

I struggle every day getting and keeping my head out of my ass or buried in the sand. I shame spiral and run from my responsibility all the time. My BS is at the end….last chance saloon has long since closed and she is still with me and still loves me.

Please accept that the conversations for a long while are going to be hard. BS is going to be angry and has every right to be so. YOU need to manage your recovery while at the same time being there for her and telling her everything and being there always. Managing the anger is difficult. I’m in specialist counselling for anger management related to domestic abuse. Getting angry is a choice and it is a choice to control. Control the situation or conversations, but it’s all about control and how we don’t like to lose that control. Look out for a book called stop hurting the woman you love. It’s a hard but good read

Bulcy

Yes all I have is anger in me..it is not at wife but with myself. Everytime I try to talk it just becomes anger it is just always there.i know she still loves me otherwise this would be going very differently.

BH911, it's good you're seeing where the anger needs to go- at yourself.

Your anger is telling you something needs to change. When you're mad at yourself, it means you want a change in YOU.

So how are you going to start changing?

Why does lying feel easier then telling the truth..

Because you believe that you can control the narrative others have about you and thus have control over the outcome.

It’s an illusion- the only way to heal yourself is to do the things that are right. I don’t believe for a second you don’t know right from wrong. You choose instead what is easy.

The greatest thing you can do is get honest with yourself, with your wife, and become someone your kids can look up to. Decide what that looks like. Make a list. Don’t bother showing it to her- it’s more empty words and promises. Just do them. Consistently. Without applause or appreciation.

I will be honest, I have no idea how she hangs on in this "marriage". How you haven’t killed her feelinsg for you before now is nothing short of a miracle.

But I do think anyone is redeemable. The relationship may not be. But you have children to raise and the longest relationship you have is with them and yourself. Find a way to make the narrative truly be different and not just hoping you can lie your way out.

Why do you think you lie?

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:56 AM, Wednesday, March 30th]

Where did you learn to lie too?

HO has a lot of good advice and good questions. She's one of the best fWS's I know.

When did you start lying? Kids don't come into the world knowing how to lie. They have to learn it from somewhere.

I lied to protect myself. Protect myself from shame in the small day-to-day. Then to "protect" my BH from all the ugly truth of my A.

Lying doesn't protect you. Eventually all the lies stack on top of each other like a Jenga tower with half the pegs missing. The lies always fall apart- you can't keep scrambling to keep it all standing.

When you feel the panic build, what is your body doing? When you feel the need to defend, where and how do you physically tense up? Start paying attention to your body's cues - it will help you become aware of what situations trigger your defenses and make lying a way to escape the perceived danger. I've found that physical awareness has grounded me in myself, the situation, and given me space to breathe and really think about my response.

It takes a TON of practice and a TON of effort to unlearn these behaviors. Once you start noticing when and what triggers your defenses (and lying is a defense), you can start asking yourself about your why's.

WS Only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 12:19 AM, Thursday, March 31st]

BH911

I think us waywards have helped you as much as we can. You don't take our advice and experience to heart. You blow over anything that could actually help you. I have to admit that I don't understand you at all and often wonder what you are actually capable of in terms of retention and therefore action.

Honestly, and not that I expect any real variation in regard to the difference it would have on you, but... I know from personal experience that our BSs here truly had more impact on my work than our WSs (that's not to say they weren’t invaluable because they were) but I needed that perspective above all else. I needed to be in their minds as much as they crave to be in ours.

What if you opened your thread to more perspectives and removed the stop sign? I honestly can't tell how delicate you are, but I think you could handle it and I think you need it.

Just a suggestion since most of your suggestions here so far have landed on deaf ears.

WS Only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:31 PM, Thursday, March 31st]

hikingout
I don't think I lie I know I love...my affair partner has shown my text my wife has send her..I did not tell my wife she found out and as obvious it exploded in my face...why do I keep trying to protect my affair partner from my wife?.

I did my first IC conselling session the other day most of which was him just trying to get some background info on the whole situation. I laid it all out about the multiple affairs, the constant lying to dragon and hiding information about the affairs.. Him telling basically I am a guy who has everything and how I can be a good guy but I am not a respectable guy..next session will be more indepth he said he will have more info and we will be making up ideas and ways that I can show and prove that I can be the kinda mand dragon needs and deserves

why do I keep trying to protect my affair partner from my wife?

that's a great question, one we can't possibly answer for you. So why do you prefer to protect your AP over your wife? How does AP hold a higher regard than your wife?

I threw my AP under the bus quick. Which is what needed to be done. I would do it 1000x over. Why are you protecting her and not your wife?

foreverlabeled
I dont understand why do I still have feelings for my Ap I can't just switch them off..how did you just stop and throw yours "under the bus" as you say. Did you not have any feelings for tou AP?

I did have feelings but they were wrapped up in what I was getting out of my affair more so than for AP himself.

I knew immediately that if my BH would offer it that I wanted to remain married to him and do whatever it took.

Big part of that was honoring his wishes when it came to AP. Of course NC was a natural response. No problem. Then BH wanted info about him. Where does he live is he married what does he drive his phonenumber where he works, and I offered up even more details than what BH asked for. Everything I could think of.

Because BH mattered more I had no problems throwing AP under the bus. Why would I protect AP over BH? Protecting myself sure, but AP?

Even if you think you have feelings for AP, you have to make a choice. You can't have it both ways. If you try you WILL find yourself flat on your face without your family.

What do you get out of protecting AP? How does that help?

Hey BH,

Its natural to mourn the loss of the A. What you need to work on is seeing it, the A, for what it really was. People can be addicted to a lot of things. Well known preacher Chip Ingraham talks about a time in his young life where he was, "in love with being in love." In his travels, many young ladies caught his eye and he flirted and fell for them. He was surrounded by a pack of committed Christian dudes, so he had that as a protection from going off the rails. His peer group exerted positive pressure on him so he didnt do anything stupid or regretful.

Anyway, I am wondering if that is not the case with you, being in love with being in love. You seem to attach easily to anyone who "gives you that feeling." Lots of people here have written on limerance and it works like a heady drug.

Reorienting your perspective toward you AP in this way is going to be key to moving forward in your life. As long as you view you APs as special people instead of the current drug dealers they are, you will remain stuck. You wont be able to grow without making change.

Things that arent growing are dying. Your soul has been dead to growth over the years.

Do you want to live again? Or do you want to remain a slave to your addiction?

Addicts can recover. You can regain your dignity and self respect. You can only do this for yourself and by yourself. People dont respect addicts actively in their addicitions. They respect those that are honest and humble and working their change openly.

My moms husband (dad died amd she remairred) is a recovering alcoholic. We have spoken over the years about his anger at his abusive father and how that fueled his alcoholism and basically made a ruin of his life. He was talking to me about my own anger and resentments making me a "dry drunk." We see differently on a lot of things, but in this I respect him and his opinions as he has lived experience in battling his demons and is open about it. He still goes to meetings and has mentored several recovering alcoholics over the years.

All this to say, recovery, self respect and respect of others is an acheivable goal.

How bad do you want it?

MIgander
I want to be able to forget my AP I don't wanna feel torn into two pieces I wanna be whole and devoted to only dragon..with all the anger and frustration I feel like I am being pushed away from her and toward my AP..it's like she wants me to just leave and go..