Newest Member: Butterfly19

General :
Trying to get out of the Chinese finger pull

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maxricomm ( new member #79388) posted at 11:52 AM on Saturday, October 2nd, 2021

But you DO have a reason to get in the truck! You said that you think your extra car key is in there and your copy of the truck key is there. You stated you're on both titles. Get your keys 馃攽. He can no more stop you than you can stop him from being in the house.

posts: 11   路   registered: Sep. 11th, 2021   路   location: Pennsylvania
id 8691306
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 hysteria625 (original poster new member #79300) posted at 2:31 PM on Saturday, October 2nd, 2021

You said that you think your extra car key is in there and your copy of the truck key is there

.
Sorry for the confusion- he has 2 trucks. "Our" Chevy and his work Ford. I believe the keys are in the work Ford.
Fwiw, he鈥檇 left the Chevy unlocked and I went through it yesterday. I did find our Mac computer and I鈥檓 getting some stuff off before returning it to him but I didn鈥檛 find my spare fob :(

Thanks for the support鈥ver the last 9 months of this bullshit I鈥檝e done ok while the anger is fresh but then after a week or two, it fades and I get lonely. The loneliness has been crushing and I start feeling like I won鈥檛 find anyone better鈥veryone has their issues鈥e knows and deals with my "quirks" and no one else will want to.

But today I鈥檓 good. My house is peaceful and I don鈥檛 feel like I鈥檓 walking on glass.

Married 25 yearsTogether 29 years1st EA = Summer 20072nd EA = Winter 2021 / Dday 4/17/21

posts: 36   路   registered: Aug. 19th, 2021
id 8691308
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sisoon ( Guide #31240) posted at 2:50 PM on Saturday, October 2nd, 2021

What do you think of the virtually unanimous advice you've been given?

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 26130   路   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   路   location: Illinois
id 8691312
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gmc94 ( member #62810) posted at 6:27 PM on Saturday, October 2nd, 2021

One option is to see about getting an order of protection against him. Laws vary from state to state (in my state his breaking down the door back in July would have been enough). You don't have to file one, but most states/courts will have info online (my state requires the info to be online, requires the court staff to help you fill out the forms, etc). Knowledge IS power. Also in my state, he would be prohibited from coming to the house, the cops would escort him to pick up some personal belongings, etc. Now, we all also know that a piece of paper cannot protect you - if he's that unstable, an order of protection can escalate things, which is something to consider VERY seriously (esp with the guns - if he's got any left in the house, I would get my own safety locks that he does not have a key for, or take them somewhere else w/o his knowledge. Don't wanna get all political WRT guns, but every statistic is clear that having a gun exponentially increases risk of homicide/suicide. IOW, you are far more likely to be killed by a partner if s/he has access to a gun)

Also in my state, whether you have separated bank accounts or not, all of this is marital assets. He's using marital $ to pay for his condo - you would be LEGALLY entitled to any/all info about any sublet... you MAY be on the hook for the furniture (in my state, that would technically be marital debt, but I don't know a single court that would not segregate it completely to the spouse that took out the card & got the furniture - a judge would view as kind of a 'wash" in that he owns/keeps the furniture, so he owns/keeps the debt too).

bottom line IMO is to file for D ASAP. You do not have to finalize D... but it gets the ball rolling and starts his wakeup call that his crazy is not going to be tolerated.


His addiction is his problem. His problem to fix (tho it sounds he's not really interested). IF (and that is a GIANT if) he is serious, he will immediately begin to see a CSAT and immediately begin to attend SAA or another 12 step program for sex addiction, find a sponsor and begin his journey out of SA.

Remember this - always:
You didn't cause it
you can't control it
you cannot cure it.

You my want to check out the programs for spouses of SA - the folks attending those meetings may have a lot of experience with the legal issues they've faced in your state.

Godspeed.

M >25yrs/grown kids
DD1 1994 ONS prostitute
DD2 2018 exGF1 10+yrEA & 10yrPA... + exGF2 EA forever & "made out" 2017
9/18 WH hung himself- died but revived

It's rude to say "I love you" with a mouthful of lies

posts: 3428   路   registered: Feb. 22nd, 2018
id 8691328
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13YearsR ( member #58259) posted at 8:50 PM on Saturday, October 2nd, 2021

The loneliness has been crushing and I start feeling like I won鈥檛 find anyone better鈥veryone has their issues鈥e knows and deals with my "quirks" and no one else will want to.

First of all, you don't know that. The older I get, the more I realize that most people are weird and have their own quirks. Regardless, this is not about moving on to your next relationship. This is about getting out of THIS one because it's toxic, and taking care of yourself.

Secondly, this sounds Stockholm Syndrome-ish. You're romanticizing your abuser. Keep reminding yourself of all the bad things that he's done and continues to do, and stay mad so that you can take the actions needed to get out of this. He's not your friend. He's unstable and dishonest. He's doing things to hurt you and put your family at financial risk.

Keep going. You can do this. XO

[This message edited by 13YearsR at 7:51 PM, Thursday, October 7th]

The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off. ~ Gloria Steinem

The grass is greener on the other side of the fence because you're not over there messing it up.

DDay 2004. Successful R. 33 years married

posts: 547   路   registered: Apr. 13th, 2017   路   location: TX
id 8691342
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gmc94 ( member #62810) posted at 9:49 PM on Saturday, October 2nd, 2021

The loneliness has been crushing and I start feeling like I won鈥檛 find anyone better鈥veryone has their issues鈥e knows and deals with my "quirks" and no one else will want to.

I - and probably most BS - totally and completely "get" that.

Good grief, I remember telling my IC there is no way I'd ever find a job at my age and with my deficits that would ever pay the bills.... yet here I am, a couple of years later, with a great job that I'm wonderful at (and even getting ready to apply for something even better).

Read up in the new beginnings thread. There are a lot of folks there who were in the exact same place you describe, but have found love.

I dunno how possible it is with the new site, but I'm reminded of a BH, OhForANewMe who posted about the wonderful new love found after infidelity, remarried, and was absolutely inspirational (now, maybe that's an awful example, as OhFor later died of cancer, but I don't see the two as being related).

That stinkin thinkin will keep us stuck. I think every human is susceptible, but it's not healthy or helpful.

Of COURSE you are afraid of an uncertain future. That's human nature.

And.... nothing changes until something changes.

That change is YOU and it is absolutely possible. Doesn't matter if you are rich/poor, fat/thin, country/rock&roll. We are all capable of it.

Rick Hansen's book Resilient really helped me on this particular front. Find some joy EVERY day and learn how to incorporate it. The neurons that fire together, wire together.

M >25yrs/grown kids
DD1 1994 ONS prostitute
DD2 2018 exGF1 10+yrEA & 10yrPA... + exGF2 EA forever & "made out" 2017
9/18 WH hung himself- died but revived

It's rude to say "I love you" with a mouthful of lies

posts: 3428   路   registered: Feb. 22nd, 2018
id 8691349
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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 12:04 AM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

You could walk into the nearest McDonald's and find someone better than this man. And um, do you know someone who doesn't have quirks? I don't. Besides, you have enough to worry about without trying to futurecast some new man. There are millions upon millions of men just in your state. The odds that none of them would want you but only this one very flimsy excuse for a man does tells me that you've internalized some emotional and psychological abuse that makes you believe that you are unlovable. That's just not true. I know lots of truly weird people who have a spouse who loves them. I seriously doubt you're quirkier than most people, much less in a special category of quirkiness that would outshine them.

I met someone today who doesn't believe in technology and she has a boyfriend. Top that, lol.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 12:05 AM, Sunday, October 3rd]

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

posts: 4531   路   registered: Jul. 27th, 2017
id 8691361
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sisoon ( Guide #31240) posted at 5:10 PM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

I won't quote Dee's last 2 posts or gmc's last post. I'll just ask you to reread them and take them in.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 26130   路   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   路   location: Illinois
id 8691436
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ChamomileTea ( member #53574) posted at 6:22 PM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

It's easy to get out of the Chinese finger pull. You simply push back and remove the offended digit.

posts: 4569   路   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016
id 8691446
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 hysteria625 (original poster new member #79300) posted at 1:00 AM on Monday, October 4th, 2021

What do you think of the virtually unanimous advice you've been given?


I am very grateful and think it is all worth consideration. I have a couple other posts on this site and a bunch on Reddit...it's been a process and it's not over, but I am a step or two closer to getting out

bottom line IMO is to file for D ASAP. You do not have to finalize D... but it gets the ball rolling and starts his wakeup call that his crazy is not going to be tolerated.


So in my state, I can't just file divorce. With a minor child involved, we have to be separated for 12 months, then we / I can petition the court for divorce.

I don't think he's a SA - I think he's saying he is so he can keep playing around on Tinder, period. If he truly has a problem, why hasn't his therapist recommended he start a 12 step program??? He didn't know what SAA/SLAA was until I mentioned it. I'm not buying it. He thinks he's entitled to behave how he pleases and tell me that if Im hurting/crying etc. I'm just trying to control him.

First of all, you don't know that. The older I get, the more I realize that most people are weird and have their own quirks. Regardless, this is not above moving on to your next relationship. This is about getting out of THIS one because it's toxic, and taking care of yourself.


Thanks...and I realize now that talking about moving on is super premature. I really have no intention of doing anything but continuing to work on myself - keep going to CoDA meetings, work the 12 steps, listen to "The Adult Chair" podcast (this weeks was amazing - about changing our patterns! Seriously, if you haven't listened to The Adult Chair, I highly recommend it!), get healthy again (need to lose about 40 lockdown/anxiety pounds)

Good grief, I remember telling my IC there is no way I'd ever find a job at my age and with my deficits that would ever pay the bills.... yet here I am, a couple of years later, with a great job that I'm wonderful at (and even getting ready to apply for something even better).


That's fantastic! Congrats & good luck!!

You could walk into the nearest McDonald's and find someone better than this man.


laugh


laugh omg - this had me crying with laughter. Thanks

I met someone today who doesn't believe in technology and she has a boyfriend. Top that, lol


I guess if you're in a holistic field you wouldn't need it - more power to her lol
To date myself, I am a gen x'er who remembers life before computers - barely. My dad loved technology and we had an Apple Mac by the mid-80's. If it extends to TV, then whoa...but I'll bet she's amazingly creative :)

You simply push back and remove the offended digit.


Thanks CT - I'm trying...he is gone for now. I am looking into my legal options.

He is at his condo.

He returned my car keys - both my car and the chevy truck. They are now hidden.

I have a consolation with another attorney Tuesday morning. Due to the instability, I'm going to discuss a temp restraining order. I spoke with the police and right now don't have cause to have the guns removed - my state is very pro-2A. An attorney may have a better idea what direction to go.

I am also going to work with them on drawing up the separation agreement.

Today was another mind f***. He posted a woe is me message on Facebook - he's dealing with SO much, no one cares...he's deleting all his social media and erasing all his contacts. Then an hour or so after that post, he posts another meme about "No one cares about you until you die".

I started getting all kinds of messages from mutual friends who have no idea what's been going on. I texted him and told him to stop the crap...surprisingly he took them down, but not before he got the attention he wanted.

Now he's asking to go to MC again. With him so unstable, I don't want to poke the bear right now, so I said I would, but he needed to find someone qualified to deal with infidelity abuse and sex addiction. I told him I wasn't going to sit through more bs with a MC who's only goal is to 50/50 the problems and tell us we need to work on communication and love languages. We'll see if he follows through. I'm not holding my breath.

Truthfully, I'm hoping he gets some hits on Bumble/Match/Tinder and gets distracted.

Married 25 yearsTogether 29 years1st EA = Summer 20072nd EA = Winter 2021 / Dday 4/17/21

posts: 36   路   registered: Aug. 19th, 2021
id 8691483
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RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 2:52 AM on Monday, October 4th, 2021

Hey, the "Chinese Finger Trap" is a great analogy for your situation. You're basically fighting yourself, fighting against your higher reasoning and common sense. The force holding you in this, insane, relationship is, you. Not him, it's you-all you.

You gotta get out of there. You're in danger. There's gun play. There's suicidal ideology. There financial diversion. There's deep emotional abuse. There's some serious personality disorders at play here. It seems like he's also setting you up for further financial betrayal, theft. Every credit card he opens and runs up could become a shared liability.

Get an attorney and end this madness and begin damage containment and control and protect yourself. The longer you wait the greater the damage.

posts: 666   路   registered: Oct. 25th, 2013
id 8691496
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ChamomileTea ( member #53574) posted at 3:15 AM on Monday, October 4th, 2021

Now he's asking to go to MC again. With him so unstable, I don't want to poke the bear right now, so I said I would, but he needed to find someone qualified to deal with infidelity abuse and sex addiction. I told him I wasn't going to sit through more bs with a MC who's only goal is to 50/50 the problems and tell us we need to work on communication and love languages.

That "love languages" bullshit never ceases to blow my mind. It's nothing but a prettier wrapping for the "unmet needs" fallacy, whereby WE become responsible for out mate's interpretation of our devotion based pretty much on whether we scrubbed out the toilet properly or failed to compliment them vociferously enough when they did it. rolleyes I got so tired of posting about it that I bookmarked an earlier post which I'll share with you now.

Just remember that you are NOT at any obligation to go to MC again. And if you do, don't be afraid to "poke the bear". You will HAVE TO stand up for yourself. Neither your WH nor your MC will do it for you, right? MC's are too busy dividing the blame, even though we're sitting there with a WS who has been out fucking other people while our alleged "crime" is typically beyond our control because we're not a pussy smorgasbord. rolleyes
So, my advice if you're going to do this is go full-on diva. They need to be there for YOU.

Here's that post. Take what you need, leave the rest.

My own WH went on a Craigslist binge six years ago, multiple partners, various degrees of emotional attachment. He even thought he was in love at one point. But ten years before that, I'd caught him out in some online shenanigans, porn, cybersexing, emotional affair, etc. In fact, I caught him out only two weeks before a planned meet-up. I'd already seen an attorney before I confronted him and I was bent on divorce, but he pretty much cried his way out of it and I settled on MC. As you might have guessed already, we too were bamboozled with the "unmet needs" model of therapy, which sounds so reasonable. I upped my wife game, and did my best pick-me polka, but within a couple of years, he was right back at it behind my back. By the time we reached the ten year mark, he had screwed up his nerve to go live and in person on Craigslist.

Of course, I was pretty shocked as you might imagine. I thought we were good. I thought his "needs" were met. Damned if I hadn't been turning myself inside out for a decade to make sure, right? The more I thought about it, the more I revisited what I knew about the "unmet needs model", the less it made sense. I was doing everything right and he still CHOSE to cheat.

Here's the fly in the "unmet needs" ointment...

Healthy ADULTS don't need to be validated. They validate internally. Healthy adults are self-fruitful in the matter of contentment and life satisfaction, and when things come up which make them unhappy, they address the cause and solve the problem. OTOH, the vast majority of cheaters cheat because they're seeking external validation. They are NOT emotionally healthy. They can't do it on their own. They've got a hole inside them and no amount of external validation will fill it. Certainly, the old and familiar validation of a spouse doesn't get the job done. Our "kibbles" are stale and boring. They don't create enough adrenaline anymore to make the cheater feel special. It's like getting an "atta boy" from your mom, right?

This is old pop-psy which is still being taught in schools and still selling books. But it's bullshit. NOTHING you can do (or fail to do) can MAKE another person throw away their core values and do something that's in this kind of opposition to good character. If you're a person who BELIEVES in fidelity, who VALUES fidelity, you don't cheat. End of story. Because when we truly value something we protect it. The cheater has a "but..." in his values system. ie. "I believe in fidelity, but... not if my needs aren't being met." For people like you and me, we have a "so..." in our values system. ie. "I believe in fidelity, so... I don't put myself in risky situations with the opposite sex." This is the BOUNDARY we create organically. We don't sit around planning it out. It just happens, because it's innate to our character to protect what we value. The cheater doesn't have those boundaries because he doesn't really honor his values. He only claims to.

I'm not saying that your marriage is over or that your WH can't change. What I am saying though is that this "unmet needs" model is NOT going to challenge him to clean up his flawed character. In fact, it allows him to offload responsibility onto the marriage and onto YOU. It's not your job to MAKE him feel (fill-in-the-blank-here). It never was. It's his job to control his feelings. You could have been doing everything exactly perfect for the entire length of your marriage, and he would still have cheated... because there's NOTHING in his character stopping him and he has no coping mechanism to fall back on when he feels unvalidated, inadequate, unappreciated, etc.

It's HIS job to see that his "needs" get met. Sometimes that might mean negotiating with you, say if it's about sex or about the division of labor in your home, etc. But sometimes, it might mean that what he sees as a "need" is unhealthy in an adult, like external validation through attention and flattery.

MC's are there to treat the marriage. The marriage is the client. So, of course they're going to talk about communications, resentments and expectations. The MC doesn't want to alienate anyone, so s/he's looking to find balance on both sides. But marriages don't cheat. People do. The only way your WH is going to make a change that safeguards against further perfidy is by correcting his need for external validation and becoming an emotionally healthy adult whose deeds are as good as his word. No excuses, just honoring the things he claims to value. For that, I would recommend IC (individual counseling) with a therapist who is well-versed in adultery.

The last thing any newly-minted BS needs is to walk into an MC's office, believing that they've come to safe harbor, and being handed a copy of The Five Love Languages or some other "unmet needs" gobbledygook. It would be really nice if we actually did have the power to control our mate by giving them "acts of service" or "words of affirmation", but sadly, we aren't gods who can stop a cheater from seeking out his/her choice of adrenaline rush and new kibbles. Although, this kind of pop-psy suggests that their behavior is somehow our responsibility. The more you dig into this ridiculous line of thought, the more absurd it becomes.

Anyway... sorry for the lengthy post. Nothing fries my ass more than seeing new BS's being sold this bill of goods. I do think that there's a whole lot of motive, means, and opportunity in your WH's story though. It's not impossible that they didn't have sex, but man... I'd have to see a polygraph result to believe it if it were me. Maybe I'm just a bit jaded after my own experience, but adultery happens in about half of marriages and a year is a really long ramp-up.

I know your world is probably wrecked right now, but believe me, you're going to be okay. It takes time though and it's not easy, but we're all living proof that one way or the other, it gets better.

((hugs))

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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 3:50 AM on Monday, October 4th, 2021

I guess if you're in a holistic field you wouldn't need it - more power to her lol
To date myself, I am a gen x'er who remembers life before computers - barely. My dad loved technology and we had an Apple Mac by the mid-80's. If it extends to TV, then whoa...but I'll bet she's amazingly creative :)

She was an absolutely adorable person and I don't mean that in a condescending way. She was internally happy and you could just feel it all around her. Speaking of Gen X (same), she looked like she belonged in the Breakfast Club, kinda like Molly Ringwald. Girlfriend was all 80s in appearance. Was she weird? OMG yes. Quirky. Weird. Didn't fit in. And absolutely a joy to be around. She gave me a whole speech about how libraries are amazing and reading on phones was an awful thing for society and then we talked about how great it is to do things to help the down and out in the world and she just brimmed with wonderful perfect strangeness. Being off-beat and quirky can be the absolute best thing. It isn't something I consider a negative. Everything about you that makes you not the norm makes you interesting. So if you actually are quirky and it isn't just something you've internalized, girl, own it and love it about yourself. It makes you who you are. How cool it is to be truly quirky. I talked to her for less than half an hour and probably will get to know her again when she volunteers with an organization I'm involved with. I look forward to it.

And OMG...get yourself out from under this black cloud of a marriage and you get to discover yourself in a whole new way. Starting over can be a pretty great adventure. All my quirks are loud and proud. There are sunflower paintings and decorations all in my house like the hippie I am. I wear what I want, watch what I want, go vegetarian without annoying a partner, decorate how I want, plant what I want to plant, paint the walls whatever colors I like. I spend most of my free time doing dog rescue stuff and nothing makes me happier. I don't give a damn whether or not anyone approves of me, thinks I'm normal enough, cool enough, blah whatever. My life is mine and no one else's approval is necessary. Quirky? Right there with you and it's my favorite thing about myself. Fuck worrying about some future man. It's the future YOU that's pretty exciting. That's the person you want to meet and spend time with.

All this "divorce is terrible" talk you hear isn't wrong, but it's only a small part of the story. Sometimes it's like having a tumor surgically removed. You're miserable and you stress about the surgery because it's going to be hard and you fear the recovery because it's really going to suck, but the real story is the life you get to lead tumor free afterwards. It's the future you wouldn't have had without that surgery that leads you through.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

posts: 4531   路   registered: Jul. 27th, 2017
id 8691502
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 hysteria625 (original poster new member #79300) posted at 3:47 PM on Monday, October 4th, 2021

The force holding you in this, insane, relationship is, you. Not him, it's you-all you.

Agreed, and I'm in IC, working the CoDA 12 steps, reading and listening to a lot of self-help information. I've always run on emotion and learning about CPTSD and trauma bonding has given me an intellectual grasp of the "why's" of my indecision. No excuses, and I'm not blaming myself so much anymore - but I accept the fact that only I have the power to get out and move on.

That "love languages" bullshit never ceases to blow my mind. It's nothing but a prettier wrapping for the "unmet needs" fallacy, whereby WE become responsible for out mate's interpretation of our devotion based pretty much on whether we scrubbed out the toilet properly or failed to compliment them vociferously enough when they did it.

^^^ THIS...WH blaming his EA on my failures: I wasn't "nice enough", I was "always angry", nothing he did was ever good enough, I wasn't grateful enough for his presence.

Just remember that you are NOT at any obligation to go to MC again. And if you do, don't be afraid to "poke the bear". You will HAVE TO stand up for yourself.

I know and it is why I've given him a very specific list of things the MC must at least claim to be versed in (infidelity trauma, childhood sex abuse) before I'll join him. I'm not expecting him to follow through. If he does, I don't plan to handle him with "kid gloves". The first MC kept shutting me down when I tried to get him to take responsibility for his actions until he kept doing things that perpetuated the trauma and in our last session, finally validated me and told WH that his actions would make any partner think he was having a PA. It was the only time I truly felt heard.

They are NOT emotionally healthy. They can't do it on their own. They've got a hole inside them and no amount of external validation will fill it. Certainly, the old and familiar validation of a spouse doesn't get the job done. Our "kibbles" are stale and boring.

This describe what happened / is happening with EAP to a "T" - my "love language" of caretaking was boring and EAP is 20 yo, from a foreign country, and idolized her boss. She's always so nice, kind, attentive, appreciative, etc...he got swept up in the "new" and began the slow discard of his 29 year relationship with me. I'm sure got his bachelor pad with fantasies of what a great life he was about to lead but something spooked him...

All this "divorce is terrible" talk you hear isn't wrong, but it's only a small part of the story. Sometimes it's like having a tumor surgically removed. You're miserable and you stress about the surgery because it's going to be hard and you fear the recovery because it's really going to suck, but the real story is the life you get to lead tumor free afterwards. It's the future you wouldn't have had without that surgery that leads you through.

Thanks - Great analogy :)

The love bombing starts...I received an email from him time stamped 1:30am. I think including texts and talks, this makes the 6th or 7th time he's said the same stuff..."I'm sorry I hurt you", "my actions are not acceptable", "I don't know why I continue to hurt you" "I'm sorry for being so selfish", "I want to be a better person"

Something new in this email is his admitting to being a narcissist without calling himself one..."I need to learn how to not be so cold and dark and have a heart".

He also writes "it kills me not being with you". Ok...it's been 3 days. AND, if it really was going to kill him to not be with me, why lease a $2300 a month super nice condo and furnish it with $10k+ worth of items???

I know this is love bombing. I've been there, done that - have the scars.

I feel like saying if anything he wrote was true, then he'd also be admitting to all his lies - not in some vague "I'm sorry I hurt you" way, but actually listing out x-y-z and finally telling the truth. I'd also like to tell him that he can start showing he's truly remorseful by giving me some space while he tries to get additional help. He also doesn't address the underlying cause / start of this discard - his EA with the coworker. Until that is addressed, there is no where to go - and he can't just threaten to quit his job (more financial abuse) and leave me to take care of both of us.

The truth is I don't believe he is capable of any deep introspection. He just wants to come home and let me spackle over all the hurt, rug sweep, move on. Have his cake and eat it too.

I haven't decided if I'm going to respond.

[This message edited by hysteria625 at 3:48 PM, Monday, October 4th]

Married 25 yearsTogether 29 years1st EA = Summer 20072nd EA = Winter 2021 / Dday 4/17/21

posts: 36   路   registered: Aug. 19th, 2021
id 8691553
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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 4:28 PM on Monday, October 4th, 2021

I haven't decided if I'm going to respond.

What would be the point? You know this game. You know he's full of shit. You know what his endgame is. Answering him is just opening the door to more mindfuckery and game playing and confusion in your heart.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

posts: 4531   路   registered: Jul. 27th, 2017
id 8691557
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emergent8 ( member #58189) posted at 5:09 PM on Monday, October 4th, 2021

Agree with Dee. He is going to say what he thinks he needs to say to keep you responding/on the hook. Silence is best.

Me: BS, Him: WS. Mid-late 30s.
Together 15 years, married 5 (11 m at D-Day).
D-Day: Feb 2017 (8 m PA with married COW).
Currently 4 years (and two kids) into R and optimistic.

posts: 634   路   registered: Apr. 7th, 2017
id 8691566
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tushnurse ( member #21101) posted at 6:42 PM on Monday, October 4th, 2021

Hysteria - it sounds like you are starting to figure this all out, and that's a wonderful thing.

Can I suggest you don't respond? If you do, I would be very curt, and list out specifically what you need/want from him, and then kindly state until you can show me these steps have been completed then I will not be responding to your texts, it isn't about causing you pain, it's about protecting myself. And just be done.

He thinks he can woe is me his way back in, and if he says the right words, then he can come back. He needs to know this is a new ball game, and you are the umpire this time.

Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 21 &23
Married for 28 years now, was 16 at the time.
D-Day Sept 26 2008
R'd in about 2 years. Old Vet now.

posts: 18970   路   registered: Oct. 1st, 2008   路   location: St. Louis
id 8691574
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Anna123 ( member #70908) posted at 10:32 PM on Monday, October 4th, 2021

The truth is I don't believe he is capable of any deep introspection.


This is a great realization on your part. It is hard to admit while you are battling with hope but don't forget this.

I don't have much to add to all of the advice here and I am not sure if anyone mentioned it, but it is very helpful to make a list of all of the horrible things he has done, and your own observations on his character. You can read this list when the love bombing pops up, or the bonded feelings arise late at night when he isn't with you etc. Whenever the soft feelings try to creep in, and they will, keep re-reading it.

Take care.

posts: 629   路   registered: Jul. 1st, 2019   路   location: USA
id 8691614
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crazyblindsided ( member #35215) posted at 11:12 PM on Monday, October 4th, 2021

He needs to know this is a new ball game, and you are the umpire this time.

I love this! So true you are the umpire now it's a great position!

hysteria625 you have received such great advice just want to say that you got this! My ex is extremely disordered and it has been quite the untangling of a long abusive marriage. It does get easier though. Definitely keep that list of all the abusive behaviors because those soft feelings do sometimes creep in even if it is just feeling sorry for them. Remind yourself of what still lurks behind the mask.

fBS/fWS(me):48 Mad-hattered after DD1
XWS:51 Serial Cheater, NPD tendencies
Together 25 years, Married 19
DD(18) DS(15)
DD1 (2008) COW, DD2 (2012) MOW, False R (2014) Same MOW. DD3 (2019) Webcam girl

posts: 8063   路   registered: Apr. 2nd, 2012   路   location: California
id 8691618
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 hysteria625 (original poster new member #79300) posted at 2:31 PM on Tuesday, October 5th, 2021

it is very helpful to make a list of all of the horrible things he has done, and your own observations on his character. You can read this list when the love bombing pops up, or the bonded feelings arise late at night when he isn't with you etc. Whenever the soft feelings try to creep in, and they will, keep re-reading it.


This has been on my "to-do" list for a couple months. I've been documenting his behavior(s) in my journals and in online support groups such as SI, but don't have a consolidated list. When he had his EA in 2007, I began keeping a journal and had held onto it, giving me a point of reference - specific abusive behaviors and a general time frame of when they occurred. I can't just fool myself that this is a mid-life crisis, or something that was only caused by his nasty infatuation with his COW...the emotional / verbal abuse has been fairly continuous for almost 30 years.

I did speak with him last night and surprisingly, he did set up an appointment with a therapist who meets the criteria (infidelity, trauma, childhood sexual abuse). I am going to email her to ask about her views on EA's...and I'd appreciate any advice on other questions to ask.

We spoke briefly about his email. I told him I'm tired and done with the generic "I'm sorry's" - that I'm just suppose to accept covering everything...when I don't believe I know what "everything" is yet. I told him the only way I'd consider moving forward at this point is with full, 100% disclosure. He stammered and said "I'm not lying to you about anything..." (I know that's 100% bullshit because he hasn't told me about the $9,600 in furniture for the bachelor pad) and I basically said he'd better think hard about that - there is a reason he's treating me like shit (discarding), having panic attacks, insomnia, etc...and I don't believe it's related to his childhood abuse. I told him people HIDING things have these issues. I'm not 100% sure what he is hiding, but my gut says its something to do with COW - I didn't say that though. And as I noted above, I truly don't think he's capable of deep introspection. I also don't believe he is capable of telling me the truth. With one exception, everything I've discovered has been through my own research / snooping. And when I've confronted him about certain other issues, if I even have one minuet detail wrong, he denies.


The attorney consult is in an hour. I'm nervous and sad that it's come to this, but ready to protect myself.

Married 25 yearsTogether 29 years1st EA = Summer 20072nd EA = Winter 2021 / Dday 4/17/21

posts: 36   路   registered: Aug. 19th, 2021
id 8691689
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