SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Good day all.

Quick refresher. Wife had an EA/PA with a co-worker in October 2019. It only lasted 3 weeks (from what I know) and only consisted of kissing. I found saved screenshotted texts on her phone and confronted her on Oct 21, 2019. She fully admitted it, we fought a lot, it was rough. We were really struggling in early 2020 and then I lost my job the week before COVID hit. We decided to separate, but COVID, so we decided to work on it through COVID. I got a new job within a month, and our efforts went to schooling our kids (virtually), staying healthy, and surviving (like everyone at that time). My father got COVID in November 2020 and passed away on Dec 14, 2020. Once again, not the time to separate/divorce, etc. We did therapy, we were working on making things better, but it never worked long term. I turned 40 in May and got an therapist for myself, who I've been seeing every week since May.

Finally, this summer (late July) I asked her for a divorce. It seemed like that snapped something in her. She came to me the next day and asked me to reconsider, try marriage counseling, etc. I agreed, but we lived in separate bedrooms, etc. Our AC broke and I went back downstairs to our bedroom. Things were getting better, it seemed like we were communicating better, etc. One weekend in late August I had a poker night which ended earlier than expected. I got home and we watched a show together. Went to bed and she passionately kissed me and we had sex. Said she couldn't get enough of me, we made out all night, etc. Now, keep in mind, we hadn't had sex in over a month, and were averaging 2-4 times per month for years. That weekend we had sex Friday night, 2x on Saturday, and Sunday night. We kissed more passionately than ever, ever. I kissed her more than weekend than I had in the previous decade combined. She was giving me random hugs, random kisses, etc, I told her I appreciated it and it felt good. Well, September continued this trend. We've had sex 8 times this month and every time it's been amazing.

It's not all about sex, but it is something I've stressed I needed for our entire 12 year relationship. We are more patient with each other, we're laughing together, and genuinely having fun together. It's literally like a light switch turned. The increased sex made me think something else was going on, but I've found nothing. I used the VAR and found nothing. I don't know if she realized I was serious this time, I don't know what happened. I'm happy about it and it's a huge step in the right direction, it was literally just so unexpected. I was literally planning to list the house in the new year, get a divorce, and move on. Now, I can see this working if it continues down the same path.

I must say that she has taken a greater responsibility for her affair than she ever has. She seems resigned that it was her fault and I finally feel like she is truly sorry for her actions. She has apologized multiple times and it seems like she has finally realized the pain it caused.

I don't know what I'm trying to say here, but it's a relief. If this is the last gasp and things get worse and we get divorced, it sure was a good last effort. We're planning marriage counseling here in the next month, and I hope it goes well. I finally feel that my marriage has hope for the future.

No marriage counseling. Individual counseling especially for her. She is not safe otherwise. The marriage will fall into place when both parties are healed/healing
Love bombing, hysterical bonding will pass, trust me, but enjoy the ride!

[This message edited by Humbled123 at 10:16 PM, Wednesday, September 29th]

So when she came to you after you asked for a divorce, what did she say she was going to change in her decision making to make her a safe partner instead of vulnerable to another affair?

Edit to add: I second that HB doesn't last forever but is 100% worth experiencing...

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 10:45 PM, Wednesday, September 29th]

Yay! Covid finally did something good! LOL

Hysterical bonding is a lot of fun and feels great. Enjoy it while it lasts!

I disagree with those who say that IC must precede MC. IMO, it's fine to do both concurrently. In fact, we only did MC and it worked for us. I think what matters most is the willingness of both partners to be authentic and transparent, and to commit to doing the work. Choose your MC wisely.

[This message edited by 13YearsR at 10:47 PM, Wednesday, September 29th]

Nice update. Hope it continues for you. Time. You need to see consistent effort over time. Communicate. Talk about your needs. You have been in therapy. Has your WW been in IC? Has she worked on her own brokenness that allowed her to cheat? I don't mean to rain on your positive update but it pays to be aware. Value yourself.. Never settle for less than you deserve. Good luck.

Am going to be blunt.

Apart from the sex buffet she is feeding you and the multiple 'I'm sorrys' she has said to you, what else has she done to to show you that she is trying to make herself safe for you and your family?

The 'I'm sorrys' are just words. Words disappear into thin air, like un-kept promises. We all can say and promise things that we do not mean, but if they are backed up with consistent actions, then they lend more weight to the words.

The sex buffet is to switch your thinking from the head that sits on your shoulders, to the head that hangs between your legs. This is quite common, and sex tends to make men meander away from clear thinking.

Has she actually written a timeline for you, or have you still just taken her word? Why do all posters stress on a written timeline you may ask. Well, a written timeline helps to make sense of things easier. It makes the WS have to sit down and face their transgressions.

IMO, a handwritten timeline is more effective than a typed one, as the physical action of writing becomes more personal, and the writer has to force themselves to be more concise. A computer typed document makes it easier to be edited if the writer wants to continue to conceal, whilst a handwritten timeline will make the writer think twice about editing (as it will take more time and effort).

As it is, I believe that you are being manipulated into thinking that everything is alright. The intimacy that you craved for so long is finally being granted to you. This puts you into a false sense of security, and you look like you have fallen for it.

Think about it logically, all this only happened when you were serious about D, then suddenly, your WS steps up and gives you what you have been yearning for. Why didn't she do it earlier if she really wanted a chance at R? Why did she not value you earlier? Why is it only when she thinks she may lose everything that she then puts in some effort? Will the effort she is putting in now last?

I am not saying that you must not waver from the D path, but am just advising you to keep on your toes.

Enjoy the sex fest, but don't be driven by it. It could be a Siren call, luring you towards the reefs.

Keep your eyes open, and your ears sharp.

Be objective in your observations of what your WS is doing.

Think with the head on your shoulders.

A way to get both IC and MC together: ask her to see an IC betrayal trauma specialist. Then you see another IC in that same practice. Allow the two IC’s to "partner up" and share notes, then they will guide you both to a place where MC/couples counseling would be the most effective. If you bypass IC with a betrayal specialist and just jump straight into MC you're in more peril of enabled blame shifting and rug sweeping.

I agree: enjoy the HB -- but do you see the pattern? She suddenly flipped when you became stronger. Before she was walking all over you, even ignoring your pain at one point to continue talking to the AP. Also I can't remember if she's switched jobs? And of course there’s the elephant in the room: EA + proximity = PA. The idea that they just kissed after being in each other’s hotel rooms for sunrise beggars belief. You didn't believe this for good reason, and no one here believes it either.

If she has not written a timeline, been willing to do a polygraph and given you full access to the retrieved texts from her phone, then you have no way to believe a proven liar.

PS: Look up love bombing and sex bombing.

Edit to ask: did she get an STD test after admitting affair? If it wasn't sexual at all she should have no problem with this since it is just to alleviate real world concerns

[This message edited by Thumos at 5:37 PM, Thursday, September 30th]

I agree: enjoy the HB - but do you see the pattern? She suddenly flipped when you became stronger.

IMO, this is the core of all hysterical bonding. We get a wake-up call that triggers huge "please don't leave me" emotions. It can be a very good thing, if it triggers the WS to do what's necessary to properly R while bonding again with the BS.

There are definitely some people who deliberately use sex to manipulate, but from what OP described, this sounds like classic HB. Sex, laughing and having fun together, taking responsibility, apologizing...

Sex at this pace probably won't last very long, so don't expect this to be the new normal. I'd say that our HB lasted for about a year. Make hay while the sun shines and get thee to counseling. Hopefully, that will help lead to deeper intimacy and lead to more frequent sex long term.

from what I know

So you still don't know if you have the entire truth.

I agree with Rocket. He made some great points.

Maybe your W is love-bombing/hoovering you back. Maybe she really is changing from cheater to good partner. Only time will tell. My reco is:

- Enjoy the sex.
- Don't blind yourself to reality.

Choose your MC wisely.

Those words are very ...um... wise.

I'm less concerned with certifications than with what the IC/MC actually does. A good MC will heavily confront the WS. A good MC will stop the WS when the WS attempts to minimize, blameshift, or hold back the truth.

Our MC was my W's IC before her A, during her A, and after her A. Our MC sessions were all focused on the A and my W's - not our M's - dysfunctions until I no longer felt a need to talk about the A. And sessions later focused on the A again when I felt a need to revisit it.

Because our MS sessions focused on the A, they were like IC sessions for my W with me mainly as an observer and as someone who could provide a different perspective that could help my W get straight.

So ... even before your first meeting with an MC, if possible, ask your MC how they view As. Do they see them as symptoms of M problems or as symptoms of problems in the WS. Even in bad Ms, there's only one right answer to that. After all, you were in the same M and didn't cheat.

Ms don't cheat. WSes do. Make sure your MC knows that. If the MC argues that Ms cause As, your best bet is probably to pay the MC and walk out.

EVERYTHING that Sisoon says.
And if you want to read an example of an MC that can make a difference, check out some of CapnRoger's threads... I think he's posted on SI a thread after every session with the new MC.