SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I check my mail today to see a letter/form from the Diocese of the city I previously lived in. In it I've been informed that my ex-w is looking to remarry with a list of fairly personal questions of our relationship and if there is any chance that we could re-connect. It also asks if there are any issues that they should know about that may cause controversy. It's pretty much asking my permission that she be allowed to remarry.

Outside of the fact that yes, I can think of several things that I *could* say to be a jerk about this, I'm more flabbergasted by the idea that this is still a thing. It's been nearly 20 years, I'm remarried and haven't talked to her since the D wise finalized.

While people can change, neither of us were religious at all and while I would call myself atheist, she was atheist leaning agnostic. She was a strong women's rights person so I find it weird that she's now in a position where she's being treated IMHO as property.

I'm not participating in this at all, so I've already thrown the form away, I just find it. Weird.

That is weird!

It’s like something out of the 1960s from the Catholic Church or some other organized religions.

Well, it's the 2020's Catholic Church.. I guess some things don't change. heh.

Before this gets taken out of context, the thread is not meant to bash the church in any way. It's more of me being surprised that this is a thing.

Wow…
You guys are divorced right?
I’m amazed that they are allowed this intrusion into your privacy AND this breach of trust on HER privacy.

I've been reading about in on the Googler. Apparently non-catholics that are divorced must have their marriage annulled by the Church to remarry in the Catholic church and receive communion.

I learned something today.

[This message edited by Blandy at 2:05 AM, Tuesday, September 14th]

Lots of stuff to cover here. Your ex seems to want to get married again.Problem is that the Catholic Church only recognizes one marriage and yours, in their eyes, was valid. They are trying to find out if there is any reason to say it wasn't. Either you were married in a Catholic Church, your ex has become Catholic or she is marrying a Catholic. What only matters is what were the circumstances AT THE TIME of the wedding. Not how rotten she might have been, not all the problems she caused, just what were the facts at the time of her wedding to you.FFF&T.

F - were both parties FREE to marry? No shotgun, no threats no blackmail, etc.
F - Were you going to be faithful? No dreams of getting back to an affair once the Honeymoon was over.
F - Fruitful Not planning to have kids if they come? You lose.
T - Total In short, is this going to be THE marriage?

Now, you may be OK with divorce and re-marriage...but they're not. They are just trying to help the couple enter into a sacramental marriage. It can still be done even without our cooperation. But what do you have to gain?

Atheist here. Like the previous poster mentioned, it is a way to determine grounds for annulment and helping the person seeking an annulment, in anticipation of getting married in the church, understand that sacramental marriage is not the same as legal marriage. In that way, I respect the church takes marriage very seriously and requires the couple to actually think about the significance beyond fleeting human emotion and get counseling/education on what sacramental marriage means.

You do not need to participate if you do not wish to.

The issue I have is that people generally don’t divorce because they like each other so much.
So maybe 2-3 years later you get a chance to f@ck up your ex spouses day…

What would happen if Blandy replied that he thought they were still married in front of God? Or that he did not consent to the divorce and it was forced on him despite his religious stance? Or if he listed twenty reasons for why the ex should not be allowed to marry?

I have a niece that divorced her abusive husband several years ago. He’s since remarried, yet he still uses each and every chance he has to meddle in her life. I am 100% certain that if he got the opportunity he would mess up her chance of remarrying simply to be an asshole.

They can't prevent the other spouse from getting an annulment. The only reason they get served notice is because the annulment is similar to a court proceeding and they are an interested party.

What would happen if Blandy replied that he thought they were still married in front of God? Or that he did not consent to the divorce and it was forced on him despite his religious stance? Or if he listed twenty reasons for why the ex should not be allowed to marry?

Annulment is only concerned with facts prior to the marriage. The most common ground is lack of consent. Basically, if the person seeking the annulment believed they were able to divorce the person if they so chose prior to marrying them, then they lacked the consent to enter into a sacramental marriage. Thus, the marriage should be annulled. Basically, the person had to have a legitimate belief that they could never divorce. If that were the case, there would likely be capacity issues, which would also be grounds for lacking consent.

I guess if the other spouse wanted to be a total asshole and they had evidence, they could appear and demonstrate that the one seeking the annulment had no idea they could not get a legal divorce. Two things that would likely prevent this from happening is the time and money it would take to participate and fight the annulment. If neither time nor money were an issue, the biggest issue is the virtually impossible burden of producing such evidence and persuading the tribunal that their ex legitimately never thought divorce was an option available to him/her.

Those questions are asked to determine the facts that are related to the five elements of a Catholic marriage. If one element does not exist at the time of consummation of the marriage, the marriage has to be annulled.

[This message edited by KingRat at 6:25 PM, Tuesday, September 14th]

A friend of mine who had been married for 30 years or so and divored and had two grown children had to "annul" his first marriage and pay about $500 in
order to marry my other friend in the Catholic church.

I don’t want this to turn into a religious debate thread so let’s start by stating that I think the Catholic Church actually does a great job in protecting and saving marriages. We have also quite recently had posters in other dominations battling what the Elders might say or do regarding divorce.

However… on this SPECIFIC instance I feel like an association that has members that voluntarily are in that association is meddling with those that are not members. There is a vast difference between official courts and such, and some – dare I say it… - marriage inquisition of some association.

I’m in an angling association that commits to only using flies and fly-fishing. No bait, no lures – fly only. We also have an ethics code we promise to abide by. If I was charged with breaking those rules – say use a lure or leave line and trash at a fishing site – I would accept an investigation because I signed on for it when I entered the association. If however I wasn’t in the association I wouldn’t want to be bothered by an investigation just because a former colleague broke the rules after HE joined.
And no – don’t try to say fishing isn’t a form of religion!

I just find it strange and bothersome…

Exactly, I knew this topic is/was possibly on the line of debate. I just found it odd that my marriage that had zero to do with their Church. And now there are rules that state that the Catholic Church finds my first marriage invalid.

It does seem like a strange invasion of privacy.

I think what really was the kicker for me was at the end of the form was a place where I could donate and get more information on joining.

[This message edited by Blandy at 11:57 PM, Tuesday, September 14th]

And no – don’t try to say fishing isn’t a form of religion! blush

LOL- Amen brother!

I assume there is money involved. Money is ALWAYS involved, hence the request for some. If you were not married in the church then it is my understanding it was never "officially" recognized by the church. That might be wrong, I am not Catholic. My opinion would be to recycle the paper and get on with your life.

As a Catholic, I always found the annulment process weird. In this country it is about as difficult as handling a traffic ticket. I know a woman who was married 5 times and was able to get annulments on the first four.

And no, it’s not about money. It’s just the way it works.

I went through this also. My ExH was going to remarry in the Catholic Church (we were previously married in a different faith). I received the form via mail and didn’t fill it out for no reason other than procrastination and busy life stuff.

1. I received a phone call from my ExH asking if I had received. I had. I apologized and promised to get right to it.
2. I received a second identical form from the Church.
3. I finally realized I was holding up some process and needed to fill out this form. Because it was at that point time sensitive, I dropped it off at my local Catholic Church and attempted to explain and hand the form to a Church secretary. She would not allow me to just leave it with her after conferring with a Priest. I had to sit down with him and state very baldly that:

A. There was no marriage to save.
B. We had been legally divorced for 8 years.
C. I was engaged to be married to my current husband of now 20+ years.

After restating A above several ways and extremely firmly, the Priest finally allowed me to hand him the form. He seemed very reluctant to give up. I called my ExH and his now wife of more than 20+ years and explained what happened. We all thought it was bizarre.

The Church did not ask for a donation, filing fee, or anything of the sort.
The Priest seemed earnest and took his responsibility very seriously.
I get the sense that even had I not filled out and returned the form, they could have gotten married in the Church anyway, but it saved them several more hoops through which they would have jumped, etc.

lieswearmedown:

I would bet you that it's the same process. I threw the form away. since I don't know her any more and have no idea who her new husband is, I have zero part of it. Whether or not this holds them up is not my concern or my problem, it's between them and their faith. I'll have zero issues telling her that if she pushes the issue.

Blandly - I would venture a guess and say the form probably doesn’t change. I will say I don’t remember the form explicitly violating my privacy or requiring any sensitive information other than perhaps a free response field where I was supposed to describe what went wrong leading to the divorce… I honestly don’t remember but I think I would have remembered anything offensive or extremely intrusive. I also remember now the reason I had to give it to a Priest is that the form needed to be signed in front of a Priest. I guess that’s how they ensure they get to speak with you!

It came down to the fact that I wished my ExH well and although I hadn’t spoken to or seen him in years, it really was no imposition on my part. I think it’s a different case if the divorce is acrimonious. What I regretted not adding to my first post was that I was sitting there in front of a Priest with my engagement ring on, explaining that I am not dumping my fiancé and I find it highly doubtful my ExH would dump his fiancée so we could attend counseling sessions with this random Priest to see if HE could resolve our irreconcilable differences. 🤣 Bizarre.

[This message edited by Lieswearmedown at 2:40 PM, Tuesday, September 21st]

The Catholic Church is not obligated to marry people in the church. It has no problem with people getting married outside of the church. When someone asks them to marry them within the church, it is only right that they have their own process. It's not a wife-property thing by the way, not even close.

In the Catholic faith, marriage is permanent. I wouldn't be too harsh since this is what they are trying to protect, no one is forcing you to fill out that form.

Part of their process is making sure any new marriage they bless and speak for is not ignoring a past marriage, where someone already promised to love and cherish someone else till death. It only makes sense in this light to clear the way before they proceed. They aren't making your ex get married I'm their church, she is asking. Also, I don't believe they would try to use this to make money.

You are fine tossing the questionnaire and I don't blame you, but they take marriage more seriously than your ex did so they thought they would check with you first:-) I love that marriage is still sacred to them.