Newest Member: girlangry89

Just Found Out :
Cannot believe this has happened!

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 TreesAreGreen (original poster New Member #79155) posted at 9:07 AM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

Thanks all for the replies and suggestions. I was fully expecting the 'run' comments as quite frankly I am still utterly horrified by this whole thing and still trying to get my head around what just happened.

I completely agree I offered R way too early - one of my many regrets in this situation.

I will try and answer some Q's as best I can but I fully know I am not being told the whole truth and doubt I ever will be......

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and just keep in mind I was learning about all of this as I went through a period of approx 7 months this didn't all just come out - some things were shared on DD2 that didn't have to be - I wouldn't have been any the wiser and also as time has gone on as my WW answered my Q's more started to come out. I have tried to explain it here but its not easy so some details that explain certain parts I cannot share.

Ok - john1 me and WW have basically grown up together in the same friendship group - he was dating my wife but for a short time as teenagers before we then all started to grow up get into serious relationships and marry etc we all remained friends as explained.

Its absolutely possible that john1 could have been having an affair with my wife for a long time and throughout the marriage - its possible.

For me though change occurred in 2017 my WW became what others have described 'a different person' this was also obvious to me in some areas but also difficult to explain - she was just different. More outgoing but less affectionate with me etc

I am also having a hard time accepting the STD testing story other than the fact I have txts from her in 2017 that confirm her basically saying things are not quite right down below and she wanted to get looked at - now why didn't that ring alarm bells for me? Well, lets just say also at the same time I bought some 'accessories' to spice things up as our sx life had dipped and she blamed them.....

Why didn't she reach out to someone other than J1? Two main reasons I think; my wife is ALL about reputation its incredibly important to her and I believe she was having at least an EA with J1 at that time - she told me she sent him a message basically saying she'd made a huge mistake etc could he help......and as you now know he 'helped'

Now why didn't she just go on her own.......I have no idea....this didn't make sense to me either and did make me wonder if it was something else and I hate to even think it but like an abortion or something.....? I was spending nights away during that time so she could have had something scheduled / needed someone to drive her etc

To answer another Q the OBS of J1 had suspicions but could never prove anything, she included these in her divorce papers but also loads of other stuff - one of the reasons she was so upset was she didn't talk to me back then with her suspicions, she finally found out due to the J1 'confession'

In terms of OBS2 with J2 - she doesn't know this has happened at all......I have never met J2 after I found out about him. The telling of OBS2 is something I am struggling with and referenced earlier....it would definitely damage my WW earning potential - that is selfish from my POV I get that totally and talking to her would be the right thing to do I know.

J1 is currently out of the picture and blocked on all of our comms / social media etc - I have considered talking to him and getting his side of the story which I know is different to my WW's as we have a mutual friend who told me what he had said. Obviously the whole duress thing is missing completely and they fell in love, knew it was wrong but meant to be etc

Also from the note he sent a while after this all came out to my WW (she showed me) he confirms the timeframe that I know about, also confirms they were making plans for the future to be together and legitimize their relationship after my WW divorced me. I have never known why she didn't just divorce me before all of this came out....something I keep asking her.

So, its quite possible in my head she's trying to minimize the fall out and hit to her reputation by staying - currently only our immediate families/close friends know this has happened.

I also think she wanted to separate first 'test real world' living with AP then divorce but never had the chance to......

Anyway back to bed......

TAG

posts: 39   ·   registered: Jul. 21st, 2021   ·   location: Iowa
id 8677693
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beb252 ( Member #78948) posted at 9:29 AM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

Hi TAG,

There are lots of holes from your WW's perspective. I believe her story is watered down version. She only allowed you to know the 'truth' based on what she told not the entirety of what really happened.

I admire your love for your WW. You're not even her Plan B or C... not even the last part of the alphabet... you're out of her equation and you're still thinking about her reputation. She's just staying with you to protect her reputation, not yours. You're the safe place on earth for her. But unfortunately, she doesn't love you. Not one bit. You're not even part of her conversation to either J1 or J2. Her world revolved around J1 and J2 for those three years... or more with J1.

You're not in her mind at all and still, you're willing to protect her.

As I always say, we all have our own ways to solve our problems. We all have our own reasons for our actions. I'm pretty sure you have your reasons why you're doing what you do right now.

But what I can say is, what your wife has done to you and your family is highly mental. She was screwing three guys at the same time and she kept it hidden for a long time. That's highly mental!

It seems you're not ready for D yet but I can tell you this, in order to get to know the whole truth, you should be ready to destroy your M first. If you want to go for R, you should be ready to destroy your M first. So for now, D should be your first step. I'm pretty sure once you go for that route you can unveil a lot of demons from your WW's closet. That I'm sure of.

Right now, the 'truth' you know is only the tip of the iceberg.

All the best!

posts: 376   ·   registered: Jun. 14th, 2021
id 8677695
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guvensiz ( Member #75858) posted at 11:15 AM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

I am also having a hard time accepting the STD testing story other than the fact I have txts from her in 2017 that confirm her basically saying things are not quite right down below and she wanted to get looked at - now why didn't that ring alarm bells for me?

So she hasn't completely hidden it from you. In this case, her excuses become even weaker.

A person of average intelligence would not panic so much before anything became clear. She would go to the clinic on her own, get tested, and if the result was negative, she would continue as if nothing had happened.

Now why didn't she just go on her own.......I have no idea....this didn't make sense to me either and did make me wonder if it was something else and I hate to even think it but like an abortion or something.....?

Remember my words "Logic is not a very difficult mechanism. If something looks ridiculous, it's ridiculous, if it doesn't look credible, it's a lie."

What makes nonsense to you here are her explanations. You wouldn't think so if she had made a logical explanation. It could be a logical lie, of course, just because it made sense doesn't always mean it was true, but at least it wouldn't make nonsense.

So your suspicion about abortion seems much more plausible. Even then it makes sense for her to go with someone, but "why with John1" is still unanswered. Do you have the documents of the STD test she had? If there isn't one and she can't show it either, you should ask her which clinic it is and research whether she has had such a procedure.

[This message edited by guvensiz at 5:18 AM, July 23rd (Friday)]

posts: 478   ·   registered: Nov. 14th, 2020
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 TreesAreGreen (original poster New Member #79155) posted at 11:43 AM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

Ok guvensiz you are spot on here....I have no idea why I didn't see this before her explanation has to be complete BS because she TOLD ME she was going.......

Guess this is why a new look / view of this is so useful.

However in terms of verifying anything I don't see how that is possible with patient confidentiality etc

Of course J1 will know the truth....

posts: 39   ·   registered: Jul. 21st, 2021   ·   location: Iowa
id 8677756
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beb252 ( Member #78948) posted at 11:57 AM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

That's also what I was implying. The 'truth' you know right now is whatever what's told by your WW. It doesn't actually make sense at all. Why go to an STD test with someone when you can do it yourself? She's a highly educated woman, with a high status in society. Something like that can easily be spotted.

posts: 376   ·   registered: Jun. 14th, 2021
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asc1226 ( Member #75363) posted at 12:21 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

However in terms of verifying anything I don't see how that is possible with patient confidentiality etc

Can’t she request her own records? This would be an easy way of verifying her story, building back a little trust by proving she’s telling the truth. If she’s not willing…..

I make edits, words is hard

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id 8677760
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Stevesn ( Member #58312) posted at 1:22 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

I cannot remember if she has given you a written timeline on all this. If not, request she deliver one in the next week.

After you have it I’d recommend you then tell her you are going to schedule a polygraph to verify what is in it. Let her know if she left anything out that she should add it in or change anything before the test.

Then finally let her know that two of the questions will be:

1) have you gotten pregnant by another man beside your husband since you have been married.

2) have you gotten an abortion since you have been married

Lastly the response “give it time” is not the response of a remorseful wayward wife who is all in to rebuild her destroyed marriage. I still suggest you begin to move on until she not only changes her tune and attitude but actually begins AND COMPLETES the work a wayward must do in order to save their relationship.

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

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Mene ( Member #64377) posted at 1:36 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

I don’t advocate violence, but J1 needs his jaw broken. Again, I don’t advocate violence.

Life wasn’t meant to be fair...

posts: 826   ·   registered: Jul. 7th, 2018   ·   location: Cyberland
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 TreesAreGreen (original poster New Member #79155) posted at 1:46 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

Thanks again for suggestions, I've started looking into polygraph testing in my area I will also ask for the timeline - its one of the things I said I would insist on - but didn't follow up - so that's on me...

The records would be interesting but I just looked online to see if Abortions or STD testing would be included and it basically said you can opt out if you wanted to so guessing that could be used as an excuse and or they may not show anything at all. Don't know, I can also ask right?

I suppose the bigger Q is 'FFS haven't I got enough already to just D'? Yes would be the answer to that but for some reason I'm yearning for the truth.....and hanging on - no idea why really.

Oh and this:

Lastly the response “give it time” is not the response of a remorseful wayward wife who is all in to rebuild her destroyed marriage. I still suggest you begin to move on until she not only changes her tune and attitude but actually begins AND COMPLETES the work a wayward must do in order to save their relationship.

I think I already know but am in denial wondering if it takes time for her to finally 'get it':

TAG

posts: 39   ·   registered: Jul. 21st, 2021   ·   location: Iowa
id 8677774
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Mene ( Member #64377) posted at 1:47 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

It always makes it difficult to tell new posters, but you only know the tip of the iceberg. Your wife is a liar. A lot of things she has said don’t make sense. If she had an STD/STI you’d think she would have kept it to herself or confided in another female not a (male) friend of yours. It most likely is an abortion she got having slept with J1 or J2. She is a manipulative woman. This is going to get much much worse for you before it gets better. Horrible situation. We are here to help. You’ll get through it but you are going to have one hell of a journey. Medicate if you can and have family support you.

Life wasn’t meant to be fair...

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Mene ( Member #64377) posted at 1:49 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

You need to expose J1 and J2. Out them to everyone they know.

Life wasn’t meant to be fair...

posts: 826   ·   registered: Jul. 7th, 2018   ·   location: Cyberland
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jujuchrist ( New Member #78594) posted at 2:18 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

I think I already know but am in denial wondering if it takes time for her to finally 'get it'

In my country (sorry for imperfect english), one of my friend whose wife had an OM during a year was initially like you. His wife told him "give me some time", etc.

That was the first two months.

During those 2 months he was in hell.

At the end of those months, he said "I'm done" (and he was really done, ready to pack his bags and leave her definetly). His state of mind had changed.

The same night, his wife came back on her knees, crying, begging, saying she's clear in her head, etc.

Believe me, when yours will see she is just about to lose you, her reactions won't be the same.

Your main problem for the moment is that you seem to be afraid to loose your relation. Work on that.

Once you will not be afraid to loose her anymore, then you will DO what must be done to make things become clear quickly.

Julien

posts: 40   ·   registered: Apr. 1st, 2021   ·   location: Marseille, France
id 8677780
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beb252 ( Member #78948) posted at 2:25 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

I suppose the bigger Q is 'FFS haven't I got enough already to just D'? Yes would be the answer to that but for some reason I'm yearning for the truth.....and hanging on - no idea why really.

You already have everything you need to D. You're just protecting your WW right now. You want to protect her so bad that you don't want to ruin her reputation.

She never cared about you, why would you even care about her? Is it about your kids? Nope! You can still take care of your kids even if she lose everything i.e. her license or any professional affiliations. Why would you even care about that? She's been screwing around for years. You don't even know the woman who sleeps with you on your marital bed.

She might have even had sex with J2 and J1 on the same bed on the same day. Did she even felt remorse after that? In all those three years, it took all your effort to out her. She didnt' do it on her own volition. It you didn't do anything, she's still screwing J1 or J2 around.. You can't believe anything she says to you because she lied for 3 or more years.

Think about yourself from now on. She's checked out of your marriage a long time ago. She wasn't your wife for a long time now. She might have screwed a lot of people that you don't even know of.

posts: 376   ·   registered: Jun. 14th, 2021
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Stevesn ( Member #58312) posted at 2:28 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

I think I already know but am in denial wondering if it takes time for her to finally 'get it':

But isn’t that the core of it? You married her and took vows to love honor cherish and protect and went on your merry way to do just that. You say your relationship cooled over time, especially the last 3-4 years and you seemed to just “accept it” or saw that anything you tried to show her live and affection hit a big wall without any change of finding a path to her heart.

And isn’t what was in her heart the real issue here?

You were playing a game without knowing any of the rules or the fact that there were other players trying to defeat you. Or even worse, you were fighting a battle without even knowing you were in one.

And all thru it, for all those years, she held two men closer in her heart than you ever were, at least during that time. She cried with them. She at times laughed with them. And quite often she made love with them. I don’t think she could say with a straight face with either of them that it waS “just sex”. If she can she’s a sociopath. She loved them and again made love with them.

And quite possibly conceived a child with one of them.

And what I’m trying to say again and will again and again, that if you were and truly are in any part of that heart for her, she wouldn’t be saying “give it time” when discussing you and what she wants and her feelings about you.

She’d be driving the recovery train. She’d be researching what she should be doing to help you heal and rebuild a destroyed relationship. And then she’d be doing those things as proactively as she can.

And that’s why I think it’s important that you show her you’re not going to waste one more second of your life waiting around for her to do those things. Mostly because you shouldn’t FOR YOU. You deserve a million times better than you’ve gotten. And so until you get A MILLION TIMES MORE from her, begin to take the difficult steps to move on.

People around here will tell you I am very pro reconciliation. But that’s only when I see a wayward partner who is ALL IN on trying to do that work. But I get damn angry when I see a cheater, stomp on his or her partners tender heart, and then after DDAY make it seem like she’s doing a favor to even stick around and blames and gaslights their heartbroken spouse into thinking this was all their fault.

I have yet to hear what I need to in order to encourage you to put one more ounce of yourself into this recovery. You say she fully hates the AP now. I dont believe her. And encourage you not to as well. If she did, she’d want to do everything and anything she could to make this right for you. And the fact That she isn’t proves to me that even if she did hate him, that absolutely doesn’t mean she loves you.

She is broken. She has made disastrous choices in her life. Callous choices that show she just didn’t care about you at all. And now we’re supposed to believe she does? “Give it time” is not the words you’d hope to hear from someone who wants to show their man that they are ready to finally dedicated to spending their life proving their love.

She should have day one worked to find a specialist in Infidelity to begin work with immediately. She should be writing and journaling and making written plans to fix what is almost unfixable.

And even then, even if she were, I’d advise you to start w a lawyer while she was working to prove herself.

I hope you hear what I am trying to say. You are whom we care about here. You are whom we support. You may someday be able to reconcile with this person down the road. But not with whom she is right now.

The only way I see to love her again. To hold her truly in your heart again, is to find pride in the work she does the next months and years and yes decade. Pride in how she changed. Pride in how she fixed herself. She’s not off to a very good start on that journey.

I hope that changes. I really do. But you can’t be the one to make that happen. Only she can. And if I were you, I’d tell her exactly that.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 8:59 AM, July 23rd (Friday)]

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3167   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
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 TreesAreGreen (original poster New Member #79155) posted at 2:38 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

Stevesn; I genuinely have tears in my eyes right now reading your post, why? Because I know its true, I'm not feeling anything like what I should be feeling from her. I am just feeling crushed, my life is in the shitter, the perfect life/wife has been destroyed (or at least the image of one)

I am completely broken

I am going to go away for a couple of days this weekend and try and get my head together.

TAG

posts: 39   ·   registered: Jul. 21st, 2021   ·   location: Iowa
id 8677787
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Anna123 ( Member #70908) posted at 3:00 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

I am completely broken

No you are not. I have an issue with this terminology. You are in shock. You are terribly saddened. You are feeling anxiousness and fear perhaps. YOU are not broken. You sound very clear headed on this and are going to work through it after you take a little time to absorb this. Let yourself feel the grief but know that you and your children will be fine.

posts: 621   ·   registered: Jul. 1st, 2019   ·   location: USA
id 8677795
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Mene ( Member #64377) posted at 3:07 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

All of us have been through what you have been through. Infidelity whether a short fling or a long relationship, one AP and many, it doesn’t matter. The pain is the same.

YOU WILL GET THROUGH THIS.

Life wasn’t meant to be fair...

posts: 826   ·   registered: Jul. 7th, 2018   ·   location: Cyberland
id 8677799
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Stevesn ( Member #58312) posted at 3:26 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

Getting away can be good. Can help you detach.

Yes, infidelity sends life and relationships directly into the shitter. It’s true. But what we want you to know is that there is a path to happiness for you. It’s a long one. But it’s one that many here have successfully travelled.

It is completely up to your WW if she is willing and able to follow you down that path.

In order to do so, she has to become giving and open to whatever you need to heal. She needs to be supportive and honest.

It’s as if she somehow came to a point where she was aiming a gun at your heart and pulled the trigger. How she responds to that action after the fact shows whether or not she is all in with you.

If she rushed to your side, began cpr, called 911 and began nursing you. If she immediately started the work to figure out how she got to that point and to change who she was to even contemplate doing what she did, and learned how to truly protect the man she loves even from herself, then you could tell she was all in.

Of course if she blamed you for being at the wrong end of her gun’s barrel, saying you made her pull the trigger. Then you know you don’t have a true partner in recovery.

Something that will be telling is if you do confront her about the possible abortion. Watch how she reacts.

If she gets angry. If she gets defensive. If she gets accusatory. Then you know she only cares about herself.

If you hear “how dare you even think that! What must you think of me! How dare you accuse me of that….!”

Then you know. She does not have you in her heart.

Instead of you hear something like “{sobs, crying, falls to the floor} oh god, I’m so sorry. How hard must that be to ask me. I’m so sorry. No I didn’t. I promise you. But I understand. I understand why you’d ask. And how painful that must be for you to even think. Oh I’m so sorry. Is it ok if I hug you. You deserve so much better. I’ve hurt uou so badly. I don’t deserve you. Please forgive me. I promise that I’ll spend my life making this up to you. I’d understand if you’d leave me for even having to think that….”

Then you have someone who has potential of changing.

And the important thing to me hear, is that you make it clear to your wife, that you by far don’t see any proof that she cares enough to rebuild what she has destroyed. From the words you hear and the actions you see, she is no way someone you can ever contemplate staying married to.

And that until you hear those things and see the actions of a woman who is desperate to repair the damage she caused and that she has proven she’s willing to actually do that work, and you actually see her doing it, that you are not interested in wasting another minute of your life pretending she’s all in with you.

You’d love her to prove you wrong, but you’re not holding your breath. You don’t have high expectations of her after what she’s done the last 3-4 years and what she’s shown you since DDay.

Make it clear what you expect, and then move on until you not only see it and hear it, but see it COMPLETED. Promises are just words. She needs to prove to you that there is no one else in the world she would do anything for, and that she not only does what you ask for, but she does more. She researches what she should be doing, looks inside herself snd internalizes it, and then puts it all into action.

So please consider being very clear with her on this, then letting her go until you get what you need. I know it’s so hard. It’s impossible. Your heart has broken.

But until she becomes a true partner in your healing, you’re going to have to rely on yourself (and friends and family) to help crazy glue it back together.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 9:31 AM, July 23rd (Friday)]

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3167   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
id 8677802
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guvensiz ( Member #75858) posted at 3:38 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

I suppose the bigger Q is 'FFS haven't I got enough already to just D'? Yes would be the answer to that but for some reason I'm yearning for the truth.....and hanging on - no idea why really.

It didn't even need that much. But I also understand your desire to know the truth. On the one hand, your best friend, on the other hand, your wife with whom you lived all the firsts, even if you are going to divorce, not knowing the whole truth is a win for them. I recommend knowing the whole truth as a sine qua non for those who intend to R. I say to those who are determined to divorce, it is better not to know the very painful details. I'm suggesting you D, not R, but if I were in your situation, I wouldn't be able to rest without knowing the truth. I wouldn't want to see them think I was fooled by their lies.

I totally agree with Stevesn's post above.

File for D and don't stop even if you see positive steps from her. Just stop at the point you think is enough for you think about reconciliation.

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 TreesAreGreen (original poster New Member #79155) posted at 3:45 PM on Friday, July 23rd, 2021

Thanks all again for your collective wisdom.

TAG

posts: 39   ·   registered: Jul. 21st, 2021   ·   location: Iowa
id 8677809
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