Topic is Sleeping.
clrsrz (original poster New Member #79127) posted at 11:29 PM on Wednesday, July 14th, 2021
My wife (30F) and I (31F) have been married for 2 years, but together for 11 years. We met and started dating when we were 18 and 19. Moved in together after a year of dating. We've always been really good. Lots of trust. We never would fight, not really argue and always got along. We're each others best friend and have alway been there for each other. A few years ago, we started working together at her dads law firm. I sold my car because we didn't think we needed 2 cars and we could save money that way. So we went and did everything together.
About a year after working together, she asked me to marry her. For the first 5 years of our relationship, we weren't allowed to legally get married so it was something I never really thought about. I accepted that we couldn't, although I knew I wanted to be with her for the rest of my life. Months before she proposed, we talked about getting married and I agreed that I'd like to do that one day. So when she proposed, I said yes, of course. (and later when the affair was revealed, she disclosed that my response to her asking me to marry her hurt her feelings because I wasn't as excited as she had hoped. I actually was excited but also terrified to make a commitment like that so I think I came off as more nervous than anything). We got married 6 months later, did a small courthouse wedding and a family dinner afterward. Which wasn't our thing at all, I think we both would've rather have gotten eloped just us. We felt like we did the whole wedding thing for our family and we talked about renewing our vows and doing it the way we wanted to. But after we did get married, I felt like it was the best decision of my life. I felt so lucky to me able to call her my wife and I wanted everyone to see my ring and know that she was mine and I was hers. I told her I felt really changed after, and that I loved her even more than before.
Fast forward to 2020. We started working from home together because of COVID. At least when we were in the office, we had separate offices but working from home was different because of our one bedroom apartment. She started getting into online gaming around then. She bought a gaming PC which I fully supported, because why not, she should find new things that interest her. A year goes by and she tells me she is going to game with these people she met online, that live in Europe. I said she should, make friends! She starts gaming with them pretty regularly.
2 weeks go by and she starts talking about one of the girls a lot more. I didn't think anything of it until I noticed she started taking her phone everywhere, to the bathroom and to the shower. And always leaving it face down or in her pocket. The we get something in the mail one day, it was a credit card application for an airline. She said, "oh I might need that to go visit so and so" (lets call her M). When she said that I immediately shut down That was the moment I knew they weren't just friends. A few hours go by and she could tell I was upset. I can't hide it. I told her it bothered me that she said that and that she would even consider opening up a credit card just for that. She then proceeded to tell me that they've gotten really close and pitched the idea of an open relationship. I told her I was willing to try because I want to let her have experiences because we met when we were so young. I think that was mistake on my part because I knew deep down that that's not what I wanted. She tried convincing M about being her girlfriend but M wasn't down for that either. She didn't want to think about her being intimate with me, etc. When she told me that, I agreed. I said if she weren't in another country I'd feel the same way. Thats when shit hit the fan and my wife feels like she has to decide between M and I. And she doesn't want to hurt either of us. One thing she said that really killed me inside was that she had pictured a life with this person. Her and M were talking about things they want in life, like a family and kids. I have always come across as wishy washy about kids because I have zero experience with them and society makes it seem like they're a burden, etc. I think people have fears of the unknown and that's where I was with that subject. Its not that I never wanted kids, I do. I just think whenever the subject came up I would act strange and send the wrong message. I had always envisioned us with a family, once we had a house and more money. Being both women, we can't just get pregnant, it takes time and money so I think that was an obstacle for me. And I think we both avoided talking about this with each other. But it was something I knew we both wanted and we had come up with a plan to save money for a down payment on a house. It seemed like we were getting somewhere and I was literally about to tell her how I wanted kids to be the next step after that. But then the affair happened.
We went to a couples therapy session, and the therapist basically told her that she needs to make a decision asap. Its been about 3 weeks since and we've talked a lot about our relationship and cleared the air about things that we've said and done that have hurt each other in the past. But we haven't talked much about her "friend". She knows I get upset about it so I think she's avoiding talking about it. She told me that they are just friends now and wants to work on us but that she's not 100% in yet. I highly doubt they're just friends now. You can't just all of a sudden do that and keep talking. She messages her all the time and makes time to game with her and their group almost everyday. I feel like the only time I get her to myself is from 6-10pm when M is asleep in Europe. But once 10pm hits, I see her messaging M because that's the time she's waking up. Its extremely hurtful to see my wife wake up early in the morning and take her phone to the bathroom for long periods of time. I know she's talking to her in there. I wake up with extreme anxiety everyday now. I can't sleep, I can't eat. My wife can see this and it seems to only make her upset. She has said she needs to know I'd be ok if anything were to happen to us, and clearly Im not ok so now she feels trapped. Now we're in the process of getting a new apartment because it will have more space and we agreed to do things alone again to gain more independence. (its month to month). We also agreed that I would go away for a weekend, and then her and I could go away for a weekend together. She wants to see if she can be away from me, and if she can be away from M. I went away last weekend to visit family and it was hard to be away from her. And that's where we are now. She seems really excited to move into the new apartment. And talks about our future. And I thinks she's buying time because she can't make a decision. Im at the point where Im not sure I can wait much longer, its getting too hard for me. What's really confusing is that she doesn't act different with me, like she tells me she loves me and holds my hand and kisses me. She hasn't withdrawn at all. But Im not stupid and I know actions speak louder than words. Thanks for reading. Any help is much appreciated.
[This message edited by clrsrz at 12:25 PM, July 19th (Monday)]
guvensiz ( Member #75858) posted at 12:29 AM on Thursday, July 15th, 2021
Sorry for the situation you are in.
Cheating via online gaming has increased so much lately at SI that it has now become a separate category.
Have you seen her AP's picture, profile, personal information, is she married or have a partner, etc?
What could they have experienced in 2 weeks to create such a deep bond?
Don't do anything you don't want to do to avoid losing her. This is not healthy and is useless.
It was your WW who proposed marriage, don't nice her back and don't pick me dance.
There is no such thing as making a choice in a marriage or relationship, the choice has already been made and must be lived accordingly. You can't force her to do anything, but you don't have to wait for her to choose either. For you to consider reconciliation, first she must end all contact with her.
You are working at a law firm, maybe you already know what your options are in case of divorce. If you don't know, you should talk to a divorce lawyer.
Serve her and initiate divorce proceedings. If she starts taking the right steps and you want to stay married, you can stop the process. If she does not do these things, divorce will be inevitable and you wouldn't have wasted your time either.
clrsrz (original poster New Member #79127) posted at 12:46 AM on Thursday, July 15th, 2021
Thanks for the response. My wife showed me a picture of her AP, and has told me a lot about her. She's 21 and has only been in an online relationship with another person who had a fiancé.I know they've talked about traumas that they've been through and seem to bond over that and help each other cope. And I know the AP knows about me. There are pictures of my wife and I all over instagram, wedding photos, etc.
I know I am doing the "pick me" dance. I am trying to be her favorite. I can see what I'm doing and I can't believe it. And I'd feel really bad if I tell her she can't talk to this person because that means she won't be able to game with the entire group. But I know if she truly cares about me and our marriage that shouldn't be a problem. I think I'm at the point where I need to make a decision for myself.
[This message edited by clrsrz at 12:30 PM, July 19th (Monday)]
asc1226 ( Member #75363) posted at 12:53 AM on Thursday, July 15th, 2021
Sorry you had to find this place. If you haven’t already, go to the healing library here and start reading. Also read the pinned threads at the top of this forum.
I make edits, words is hard
faithfulman ( Member #66002) posted at 1:03 AM on Thursday, July 15th, 2021
And I'd feel really bad if I tell her she can't talk to this person because that means she won't be able to game with the entire group.
Dude. Fuck that shit. Who cares at all about some stupid online game/gaming group?
She should have dropped that group immediately once things got squirrely, even before you jumped in!
Real talk: Not only should she leave that group, she should drop all online gaming. Trust me, she'll "connect" with someone else.
The other side of this is if you don't have kids, you should consider all of your options, not just trying to win her back.
asc1226 ( Member #75363) posted at 2:45 AM on Thursday, July 15th, 2021
See your doctor and tell him what’s going on, he’s heard it before. He can prescribe a sleep aid and anti anxiety meds short term if necessary. If you’re having trouble with solid food try protein or meal replacement shakes. Remember to hydrate and stay away from alcohol.
I make edits, words is hard
LostInHisFog ( Member #78503) posted at 3:56 AM on Thursday, July 15th, 2021
If she is masturbating over video chat, sending nudes and/or sexting this is a physical affair. By now you have read what emotion affairs are about (there is a good article in the healing library on it) but make no mistake physical does not simply mean 'hands on' it's anything that has moved into sexual territory. So not only is she having an emotional affair but she is having a physical one AND has admitted to financial infidelity as well. That's it, that's all of them, she is actively committing adultery across the board.
If you can remove the history, remove who you thought she is and ask yourself, is this a deal breaker? Are you willing to put in more years than you are married right now in an attempt to make this the marriage you want to be in?
To help you come to those decision please, if you haven't already, read through every article in the healing library, all of them. Implement the 180 and stop the pick me dance, you never win.
Read cheating in a nutshell, if you still want this WW then read together 'not just friends' and 'How to Help Your spouse Heal from Your Affair' however you do not have a remorseful WW who is even close to R material, you have a sullen spoilt teenager who is cheating on her spouse. You can not allow her to have both, she isn't in love with you both she is giving all her time, affection and interest into this AP while keeping you around as a roommate because you're nice and comfy, she is not confused, she is just unwilling to pick one which she must do.
Stop MC ASAP, this is all her not the marriage, it's thankful you had a therapist who told her she has to choose and she has to! the day she was told she had too, now she is just being cruel to you, you honestly think she is torn when she is so eager to log into her games and have her affair with this AP? she isn't torn, she is being conflict avoidant. Time to stop that, this is your life here, yes or no, if she says no then ask her to start packing and you go and pay a D lawyer a visit (though you should do this already so you know the steps you need to take to file, how long a D will be etc.)
As for open marriages ... sigh... cheaters always ask this after they cheat to make everything alright, she is asking you to validate her affair and turn it from something bad into something good. For it to work it's a no strings attached arrangement of equality, you do not even want it, this is a nightmare, she is attached to this AP this isn't about opening the marriage this is her asking you permission to cheat now that you know, it is blind selfishness she even raised it and it's so common with cheaters who are cake eaters, she wants both of you, she can't have both. A great saying on SI is if the wayward is a cake eater shut the bakery down.
If it was me I'd cancel internet service to my house, make her cold turkey NC AP for a fortnight and during that time talk about your marriage. If she loses her shit over this you have your answer, it's not salvageable go talk to a D lawyer, file and tell family and friends for the support you'll need.
[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 10:00 PM, July 14th (Wednesday)]
I edit because I'm fluent in typo & autocorrect hates me.
Booyah ( Member #60124) posted at 4:36 AM on Thursday, July 15th, 2021
This is a bigger problem than you realize. If your wife can get that attached to someone in such a short period of time, so much so that she's wanting an open relationship, whether anything happens with this other woman or not it's definitely GOING TO HAPPEN again.
Another thing, not only is she cheating, but she's cheating with another woman. Did you know your wife was bisexual?
Did you really want to marry this girl? You dated NINE years and she asked you to marry her. What was it that made you not want to get married for such a long time?
Also, stop being such a damn wimp and speak what's really in your heart for crying out loud. This is obviously bothering you and rightfully so.
Who says she gets to decide what your future is?? Why don't you tell her what you're really thinking. Your wife isn't who she says she is. She's cheating and lying to you, wants an open relationship, and now you're finding out that she's bisexual.
Based on what you've written you're going to sit back and do the pick me Dance and this crazy wife of yours is going to bring a world of pain to you and you're going to sit there and take it because you're too damn afraid to say how you truly feel.
clrsrz (original poster New Member #79127) posted at 6:05 AM on Thursday, July 15th, 2021
She’s not bisexual, we’re both women. So, lesbians. But you’re definitely right. This is a bigger problem than I am making it out to be…
We waited nine years to get married because the first five, we weren’t legally allowed to get married. So honestly, before it was legal I never thought about it. I was comfortable with not being able to get married. Then it became legal in 2015 and after that is when we started talking about that but only casually. Then seriously in like 2018. Got married in 2019.
I appreciate the tough love, because everyone has been too nice about all this to me and everyone just feels bad. I really need tell her how she’s really making me feel. I’ve also been thinking about messaging the AP. Is that crossing a line?
[This message edited by clrsrz at 12:33 PM, July 19th (Monday)]
LostInHisFog ( Member #78503) posted at 7:17 AM on Thursday, July 15th, 2021
Don’t be hard on yourself we all need some 2x4 thrown at us to help us wake up, it comes from a good place and we all hold onto the dream or are stunted and need some tough love to revive and make choices. I now see it that those who show nothing but kindness are support people but they don’t know... nothing wrong with that support, it’s healing to have those but those who throw some tough love know what it’s like, they help shine light on what we ignore out of self preservation.
It’s never recommend talking to AP, they’re liars too but often when an affair is exposed the wayward and AP take the time to work out their stories so you rarely get the truth. If you need to for your own sanity go for it, just keep in mind what you hear back could be a well rehearsed story.
I edit because I'm fluent in typo & autocorrect hates me.
Sceadugenga ( Member #74429) posted at 8:30 AM on Thursday, July 15th, 2021
It’s never recommend talking to AP, they’re liars too but often when an affair is exposed the wayward and AP take the time to work out their stories so you rarely get the truth.
Talking to APs is never a good solution, not only because of their, hmmm, questionable value as a source of information.
By contacting them, you acknowledge their importance and unnecessarily elevate their status simultaneously diminishing your own. By ignoring them and acting as if they didn't exist and matter, you assert yourself and act from a position of power (even if you're not feeling particularly powerful at the moment).
In a marriage/exclusive relationship, one should never deign to vie for importance and recognition in the eyes of one's partner.
A historical analogy: president Abraham Lincoln never declared war on Confederacy as it would have meant recognition of their sovereignty and agency.
[This message edited by Sceadugenga at 11:28 AM, Thursday, July 15th]
Robert22205https ( Member #65547) posted at 11:42 AM on Thursday, July 15th, 2021
Your reaction (playing the pick me dance) is actually pretty common. We've all been there to some extent.
You'll find yourself cycling through the symptoms.
Especially the "denial".
IMO there's nothing special about the OW. Why? because your partner hasn't 'lived' with her in any meaning full way face to face, day to day. Therefore, your partner doesn't really know this woman.
Your partner is broken and if it wasn't this woman, then it'd be someone else (this month or next year).
Sometimes it's the simple explanation. Your wife enjoys the benefits of being married - but also wants to enjoy the benefits of being single.
We call them cake eaters.
You deserve better. You deserve a life partner that is 100% committed to you.
Booyah ( Member #60124) posted at 5:54 PM on Thursday, July 15th, 2021
clrsrz sorry about the confusion.
Yes please stand up for yourself and tell her what you need to say.
Than do what you have to do.
Don't let her decide ....nope...you do what works for you.
I'd be real concerned that she is NOT a safe partner. If not this other woman there will be someone else.
HalfTime2017 ( Member #64366) posted at 10:53 PM on Thursday, July 15th, 2021
Sorry you're here, but you are not alone on partners cheating b/c of online video games. There are some other threads where this is happening.
It is crazy how often now people meet online in video games and cheats. crazy
clrsrz (original poster New Member #79127) posted at 11:09 PM on Thursday, July 15th, 2021
Can someone point me to those threads?
[This message edited by clrsrz at 12:35 PM, July 19th (Monday)]
LostInHisFog ( Member #78503) posted at 3:34 AM on Friday, July 16th, 2021
I'm personally reluctant to post one in case this is pain shopping on your end. Are you wanting to read these other stories to see what the betrayed did? That's also not going to help you. There is one recent JFO about an online affair on the first page like you.
You are living in a room mate situation with a cheater who is actively betraying you everyday without a thought of you, your feelings, your mental wellbeing or the marriage. Doing nothing, hoping it'll change, going along with it in hopes they'll stick around, reading other peoples experiences and copying what they do... nothing will change for you and nothing will work out in your favor. Only you can take control, hard talks, separate, enforce your boundaries.
No joke there is no up-side here, no good possible outcome, even R is not a good thing (for a rare few the good of R comes later) because it's work, years of hard work where you'll kick yourself for even offering the chance and that's when you have a wayward who is truly remorseful, you don't have that. No cheater magically turns back into the person you fell in love with, you learn to live with the new person, sometimes with the new personality and outlook on life.
To save the M you need to risk the M. File for D and if by miracles of miracles filing makes your wayward snap out of it, makes them choose to give up computer gaming for good, chooses to cut contact with AP and actively goes to therapy with someone she found, you might recover and reconcile. If your wayward pouts and cries at the injustice of it all, blames you for it all, blames you for giving up on the M, she is no longer yours and you've already made the first moves to cut her out of your life.
Unless the wayward puts in the effort, makes you and the M top priority and forms solid boundaries this never goes away, ever.
Until you put your foot down and stand up for yourself infidelity will be your every day now
[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 10:17 PM, July 15th (Thursday)]
I edit because I'm fluent in typo & autocorrect hates me.
Feellikeachump ( New Member #79130) posted at 4:06 AM on Friday, July 16th, 2021
First of all, I'm very sorry you've found yourself in this position. If I may be so blunt (I usually am), it's time IMO to strap up your boots and find your girl-huevos. She's taking advantage of how nice you are AND she's exploiting your love for her so she can have her cake and eat it too. (Pun totally intended). I'm not saying pack up and leave, or even an ultimatum, but there has to be boundaries. You've given 11 years of your life to her and she to you. And she's willing to jeopardize that for some gamer chick she hardly knows? Protect yourself and love yourself. You're worth it.
clrsrz (original poster New Member #79127) posted at 7:07 PM on Friday, July 16th, 2021
I really appreciate everyone's responses, they have really made me think about a lot of things.
[This message edited by clrsrz at 12:37 PM, July 19th (Monday)]
Stevesn ( Member #58312) posted at 8:05 PM on Friday, July 16th, 2021
Quite honestly I would approach this differently. I would tell her I did not get married to be in a 3 person relationship.
I’d actually push her toward the AP, whether she is real or not.
Here’s words I’d use if I were in your shoes.
“It is clear you have feelings for this person. If you can find your happiness with her instead of me, I cannot stand in your way. I want a partner how is all in with me and only me. So go and explore what you think you have with them, and in the meantime I will do the work to legally end our marriage. It seems it’s not important to you to be married to me anyway.
And let me be perfectly clear, I don’t want you unless you have eliminated this person from your life completely, and that includes from your heart. Unless you see them as someone who helped you destroy your marriage and a force of evil in your world, then there is no place for me in your life.
And if we were ever to work to rebuild, please note, gaming and online communication would be prohibited in our relationship and individual therapy with an infidelity specialist would be required.
I wish you well on the other uou have chosen “
Then stop discussing it. Talk to a lawyer. Start the process.
Honestly there is not other way to do it. You don’t want a life w someone who is pining away for another, especially someone she’s actually never seen or met.
I hope you will consider doing this. I think you will find the results yo be positive.
[This message edited by Stevesn at 2:07 PM, July 16th (Friday)]
fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.
clrsrz (original poster New Member #79127) posted at 9:14 PM on Friday, July 16th, 2021
This is really helpful. Clear and straight to the point. Thank you.
[This message edited by clrsrz at 12:38 PM, July 19th (Monday)]
Topic is Sleeping.