SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Long story short:

DD says she's moving out of state in a few weeks. She announced it suddenly, and WW and I have what I imagine are the same emotions any parent has when children leave home.

In the meantime I've just given up, figured the M is done, and just stay in limbo waiting to see if anything pushes it to R or D. I really did not care one way or the other.

The other day I walk by WW who is alone, going through stuff for DD to pack. I notice her teary eyes and ask "Are you OK?" She says "no" and then releases with a gush of tears and jagging cries. She hugs me, tells me how she screwed up this family, bawling. In all my years I have never seen WW this way.

I'm very moved and said something probably not helpful but I was feeling empowered "You've been a good mom and wife for many years. I'm disappointed you're not willing to resolve the A, but I'm very happy with how you always have been with the kids." That comment started a discussion that has been very different up till now. She told me she wants to resolve the A and reconcile. I told her "I do too but I don't want to have another discussion where we talk about what I need, you say 'OK' and then nothing happens" and she replied "I know. I want to talk."

We haven't had any huge discussions yet but I did lay out a few expectations about us learning how to resolve conflict, and reminded her again how hurt I was that she has energy and time for everything else, but not for two hours to read "How to help your spouse heal." She said she wants to read it now. This morning she reminded me again, "Where is that book?" So I gave it to her this morning.

So I'm feeling different about everything, and I'm seeing a side to her I have never seen before. Seeing her in tears feeling bad about things felt very validating. I'm pretty sure that DD moving away because of the drama probably pushed things over the edge for her. Maybe it got her to think that she might be alone. Maybe the weight of the whole family put things into perspective for her. But in the small discussions we've had she's behaved like I would have expected her to, with a non-defensive and apologetic demeanor. So about 9 months later, I'm thinking she's now ready to pursue R.

So I'm feeling optimistic about things. This feels like a real R desire and so I'm going to pursue it. I wanted to share that update with the group, this has been a very supportive experience.

Consistency. Watch for it.

I told her "I do too but I don't want to have another discussion where we talk about what I need, you say 'OK' and then nothing happens" and she replied "I know. I want to talk."

This hell - I am living through, too.

He has been doing everything right for about a week and a half. This is the longest stretch. I am sure the real him will emerge but we will see.

I hope this is a good start for you. But watch for consistency.

HCSDI,

Be prepared for the "this book is a little one sided and heavy handed, isn't it?" conversation.

"Yes, like your ONS with another man was a little one sided and heavy handed," is the reply I recommend.

Maybe though, she will absorb it on the first read. I wish you the best of luck.

Actions, not words.

Hard to believe she's stalled this long on reading a simple f'ing book. But my WW did the same thing.

I also got the "this is heavy handed and guilt tripping" from my WW about the book.

My answer was "It's not. And if you don't want to do the things the book outlines, we can be done."

I would be VERY wary of indulging in hopium here. She seemed pretty casual and carefree about screwing another man on vacation and it seemed to give her a liberated and light feeling about her career and so on.

She's basically feeling sorry for herself as her life changes -- that's not true remorse.

"Where is that book?"

[This message edited by Thumos at 2:26 PM, June 30th (Wednesday)]

You might ask for a detailed written plan for how she will implement the book's recommendations short term and long-term. Detailed. Written. Plan.

I love me a written plan.

Watch her actions. Always value yourself. Don’t accept less than you need simply because she is now moving toward you. It does take some longer to reach a point where they can face what they have done and show humility. You will know how to navigate this if she is sincere and committed to what you need.

This is quite an interesting development !! You know your wife best...and I am happy to see you have a good feeling about this .

You have been given some great advice on here...and I am sure you wull be watching for her actions over her words. But words matter too .

Thanks for sharing !

Sounds like she finally had to face up to a consequence she couldn’t blame on you or the marriage. Or to be a little more charitable she stopped looking for a reason to blame you or the marriage. I hope she reads the book and begins to see your trauma.

I am sure you wull be watching for her actions over her words. But words matter too

I'm in a strange place as her efforts generally are not much (wants to talk, initiative to read the book), but this is coming on the heels of 9 months of defiance and indifference and so out of character for her, it feels very significant. It has only been two days so I do feel kind of wary.

it feels very significant.

"Feels" is the key word here. In comparison to zero, 0.5 is significant, because at least that is movement compared to a complete lack of motion. But it isn't, is it? Caution is warranted. Be careful.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:13 PM, June 30th (Wednesday)]

This is good news. and it is always interesting to see what eventually motivates a WS to change. My wife always says that people don't change until they have to. So the question here is, why does she have to?

Does this mean that you will be empty nesters? If not, was she particularly close with your daughter? My concern is that, well... We WS's are very needy people, generally speaking, and when we feel abandoned, or feel that our supply of "good feelings coming in" is going to stop, that might be a motivator. It is usually not a good one. It is good in the aspect that it might inspire her to reach out to you more, or to value the relationship more, but if she does that because she's afraid of being alone or not getting enough attention from others, then that can be a different thing. Ultimately, she must learn to be able to soothe herself when she can't rely on others to do so for her.

As the others have said, consistency is key here, and also her ability to show empathy or understanding would be a good sign.

It is good that she cried, it means she's feeling the emotion, and processing it, and letting it out. The more she can do that, the more she can start to learn about herself and what motivates her (for good or ill) the more she will be able to learn about others as well.

I posted this on another R thread and I'm just gonna re-post it verbatim here.

I just wanted to add something for you to consider from my own experience.

About 5 months after my first dday, we were trying for R but had been spinning our wheels and not making much progress. We had an MC session and the lightbulb finally came on for me and I clearly laid out my demands for R and told him that unless he was willing to meet them, then we had to be done.

The next morning he came down the stairs in tears and threw himself on the floor sobbing about how he couldn't believe he'd hurt me, he'd been so stupid, he wanted to do whatever it took to fix things, blahblahblah. I remember at the time I felt so relieved - like... he finally 'got it'.

Two weeks later he and his ap had a sleepover in my bed while I was out of town.

Point being - his WORDS on the crying morning said all the right things. But he took no ACTION to back them up. Maybe he did really feel those things in that moment, I can't say. But I do know that when it came down to it, he was not willing to do any work or deal with his own discomfort in the long term, and that is what R takes - LONG TERM effort from both parties. If only one is willing to do the work, then R just can't happen.

Your ww is not DOING anything to address things or fix them - thus far you have just gotten nebulous promises and pretty words. I know how hard it is when you're in it, and how desperately you want her to 'get it', but just from my perspective she doesn't.

Hcsdi, I hope hugely that I'm wrong about your ww. But please proceed with an abundance of caution here. So far she's done nothing really except make empty promises. I hope for your sake that she's maybe doing a cranial-rectal inversion, but please be firm and clear about what you need here and then really REALLY look at what she actually DOES to meet those needs. Not promises, not cries about, not talks about, but what she actually takes definitive action about. Tears and words mean nothing really. Actions do.

Two weeks later he and his ap had a sleepover in my bed while I was out of town.

That's unbelievable, wow.

So far it's been very positive, total 180 to where we were. These are small things but last night / this morning:

--She told me she finished the "how to help your spouse heal" book, and said she wanted to read it again to absorb it

--When I brought up casually what I call "that horrible beach condo" she right away hugged me and said "I'm so sorry"

--She just volunteered, I didn't ask about it, she no longer wants to buy that $50k SUV that she doesn't need it, and doesn't want any tension from it. She just wanted me to know that.

--I told her that I want to address the prior hurt that I never got to, but I'm afraid to bring it up, that it will go the same way as before. She said "No, let's address it."

--She also told me she bought some other reconciliation book, I'm looking forward to asking her about it.

So I'm feeling good about things, I mean we've had positive times before this but this is very different and she's very different. So I'm taking it slow and I know it is a long road but this is the most promise I've seen since D-Day.

So I've got the radical honesty and radical openness discussion locked and loaded. She would have never considered listening to this discussion before. This time I feel it will go well.

Ellie I can only imagine how crushing it must have felt to go from the hope I'm feeling today, to the despair of knowing that it is truly over after that sleepover.

Thanks for the update. Seems very positive. It appears your DD leaving was the final straw to break her down and face what she has done. Baby steps. Keep communicating, be vigilant and take care of you.

So far it's been very positive, total 180 to where we were. These are small things but last night / this morning:

--She told me she finished the "how to help your spouse heal" book, and said she wanted to read it again to absorb it

--When I brought up casually what I call "that horrible beach condo" she right away hugged me and said "I'm so sorry"

--She just volunteered, I didn't ask about it, she no longer wants to buy that $50k SUV that she doesn't need it, and doesn't want any tension from it. She just wanted me to know that.

--I told her that I want to address the prior hurt that I never got to, but I'm afraid to bring it up, that it will go the same way as before. She said "No, let's address it."

--She also told me she bought some other reconciliation book, I'm looking forward to asking her about it.

So I'm feeling good about things, I mean we've had positive times before this but this is very different and she's very different. So I'm taking it slow and I know it is a long road but this is the most promise I've seen since D-Day.

These are all really good positive steps hcsdi - fingers crossed for you that they are sincere and that she's starting to do the work!!

Please do NOT be afraid to ask for what you need and firmly lay out YOUR requirements for R. If she's serious about it, then she should be willing to whatever you need. If she's not, then it's better you know that now. And watch her actions. If she's serious about R, her actions will prove that.

Is she in IC? I can't remember. If yes, great. If not, then I would make that the first thing on the list for her.

Feeling cautiously optimistic for you hcsdi.

I can only imagine how crushing it must have felt to go from the hope I'm feeling today, to the despair of knowing that it is truly over after that sleepover.

Ya know? In hindsight (since it is 20/20), I can honestly say it was over dday1 when he told me about the AP. I just wasn't ready to admit it was a deal-breaker until way later. After his slumber party he was acting so awful, but I didn't know for several months about him going full PA. Once that lightbulb came on, it hurt ngl, but I honestly felt more relieved tna anything because it made his actions make more sense.

Wayward tears aren't worth the ground they land on. The only thing that should seem promising to you is if her actions change, which to date, they haven't.

Your optimism is based on her words alone. She allegedly read a book and bought another one. She said she isn't going to buy a $50K car because it might upset you... gee whiz, thanks.

Your daughter "suddenly" announced that she's moving out of state... was there any inkling of this prior to the affair? It's possible that the two aren't related, but I wouldn't be surprised, either, if your daughter's relationship with your wife has been significantly strained and if she's cracking under the stress of living in limbo with you both.

This could be the real source of your wife's distress.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 2:19 PM, July 1st (Thursday)]

HowCouldSheDoIt

I vote with BluerThanBlue

Your wife has something festering inside and

she has to sort out how "she gave herself permission" to waste your marriage vows. (assuming you had them?)

Does DD really know the whole story?

I suspect same as BluerThanBlue that DD is not in a good place with you two right now.

Mother being (ahem) and Dad getting walked on &

fished?

Wayward tears aren't worth the ground they land on. The only thing that should seem promising to you is if her actions change, which to date, they haven't.

Your optimism is based on her words alone. She allegedly read a book and bought another one. She said she isn't going to buy a $50K car because it might upset you... gee whiz, thanks.

Your daughter "suddenly" announced that she's moving out of state... was there any inkling of this prior to the affair? It's possible that the two aren't related, but I wouldn't be surprised, either, if your daughter's relationship with your wife has been significantly strained and if she's cracking under the stress of living in limbo with you both.

This could be the real source of your wife's distress.

I would keep wife at arms length for however long is needed for her to fix herself.

beware of the mental drug call "Hopium"

and read BluerThanBlues post a few times more -

Thanks for the update. It sounds like your wife may have turned the corner. Of course she has a long way to go - but this is a start!

Beware the other book. There's some real crap out there that minimizes adultery or blames the BS.

Get the name of the book and post it here. I'm sure you'll get some good feedback.

BTW: is the DD that's moving the same daughter that was present at the beach? If so, she needs IC. Maybe your wife and your daughter both should attend together.

Why? although it may not be intuitive, kids typically feel betrayed (especially the daughter that was present at the beach). Don't rugsweep your daughter's trauma.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 4:55 PM, July 1st (Thursday)]

Accepting the divorce had taken her a step back, but it hadn't made her take any necessary action for R.

Daughter's leaving the house makes her want to do whatever is necessary (at least in words for now).

I think she was terrified to realize that she would be alone when she got older.