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Just Found Out :
Pretty certain my (28M) wife(27F) is having an emotional affair

Topic is Sleeping.
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CuriousObserver ( member #78743) posted at 11:44 PM on Thursday, July 15th, 2021

Your concern for your coworkers and employer is the same thing as the earlier pleading behavior you were doing in regards to your STBXW. It is typical "Nice Guy Syndrome" behavior. You are acting in ways that reflect that you are anxious and afraid of what people think of you. It is basically a fear of people. A type of toxic shame complex.

In other words, it is possible to do these same actions with an attitude of strength and dignity rather than to do them hoping someone will see you do them and think nice things about you. Read "The Dead Bedroom Fix" by DSO. He will explain this to you so you can see how you can even do the same actions with very different motives and it makes all the difference in the world. You need to discover what it is to become a powerfully confident man. It, no you, will revolutionize your world.

Listen to their words but believe their actions.
The power of a lie is that it is believed to be truth.

posts: 115   ·   registered: May. 3rd, 2021   ·   location: USA
id 8675910
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 CheesecakeBaker (original poster member #78991) posted at 1:07 AM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

Back with an update.

So, I intended to speak with my boss today about leaving my job. I told her that I needed to speak with her, and she (I'm sure) could tell what it was about. I mentioned that I have had some personal circumstances change pretty severely recently and I feel that I need to be closer to my family and my support system. She asked me if I would mind sharing what was going on and I told her about the divorce. She empathized and told me about her own divorce, when she discovered her ex-husband was cheating on her while she was pregnant with their second child. She talked about how she threw herself into her job, stayed at the law firm she was at, and "look where she is now." She talked about how every time her ex comes to pick up the kids, she can "see it in his face - how he's thinking that if he hadn't treated her so poorly, he'd still be married to such a successful person."

I acknowledged all she said and thanked her for sharing. I continued by saying that given my wife's infidelity and the divorce, I really think I just need a fresh start and I want to move back to where I'm from so I can be closer to my family and start the healing process that way. Then she sort of cut me off and said, "I'm not going to let you make a decision about work right now."

I was kinda taken aback by that. She went on to say, "You're going through one of the most difficult trials a person can go through right now. You're going to be making a ton of decisions soon, and changing up your job and your professional life may be instinctual because you are in the 'run from fear' phase...but it may not be the right choice." She continued to talk about how valuable I am and how much she appreciates my hard work and how impressed she is that I had kept all the divorce-stuff to myself for so long without it impacting my work at all. Then she said that she'd be willing to be as flexible as she could with me - that I could go stay with my family for a month or two and just work remotely from there. Then she kinda said, "I have another appointment, let's go. Take some time to think things through."

...but now, I just...I'm kinda feeling worse?

Like, we got nowhere. And I feel like I got manipulated and walked all over again - so I'm feeling shitty that I wasn't able to stand up for myself YET AGAIN and to someone else. I don't really know the best way to proceed now. Another attorney at my firm who knows about the divorce and knew that I was intending to give a two-weeks notice today came to me to inquire about how my conversation went. I told him everything above. He said, "Yeah, I get it. you are a valuable part of our team and we obviously don't want to lose you. I'm sure she's serious about letting you work remotely. But ultimately you need to do what's best for you." Then he told me to take my time and talk to the people I trust.

I just...ugh. I feel like what is best for me is to GET OUT of this house I'm in, and the state I'm in where everything reminds me of HER and where all my memories are of HER. I feel like being around my family and friends who care for me and starting a new job will be so healthy for helping me occupy my thoughts better and move on. Luckily, I'm not starting at the new job until August 9 - so I have some cushion time.

I think I ought to take the weekend to recalibrate, then on Monday approach my boss again and just say, "Look. This may be news for you, but I have been dealing with this and processing it for a while. I knew that if we got divorced I wouldn't want to stay here and I need to do what is best for myself. I have accepted a great job offer and will be moving. My last day will be X DATE and I am willing to do whatever I can to help you transition my matters to other attorneys in the coming weeks before I leave."

I hate that I feel like such a pushover. Like I worry so much about what others think. Like I let others walk all over me. I let my STBXW do it to me the entire marriage; now I'm letting my boss do it to me. I wish I was different. It's really hard to feel confident and good about myself right now.

posts: 103   ·   registered: Jun. 22nd, 2021
id 8675941
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annb ( member #22386) posted at 1:15 AM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

My last day will be X DATE and I am willing to do whatever I can to help you transition my matters to other attorneys in the coming weeks before I leave.

^^^This in a nutshell, no negotiating, no further discussion.

Everyone is different. She had children during her divorce so circumstances probably were that she couldn't leave and take the children away from her EX.

You continue on this path and don't allow her to manipulate your decision. She's thinking about the firm, not about what's best for you.

posts: 11258   ·   registered: Jan. 10th, 2009   ·   location: Northeast
id 8675945
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M1965 ( member #57009) posted at 1:42 AM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

Then she sort of cut me off and said, "I'm not going to let you make a decision about work right now."

CCB, there is a book called, "When I Say No, I feel Guilty". I read it years ago, and I learnt a lot from it. Recent reviews brand it dated, but it tackles a lot of issues about being a people-pleaser.

It is not your duty to please your boss, particularly if she has granted herself control of your life, and what she permits you to do. That is a person with delusions of grandeur, manipulating you because it suits her to do so, with no concern at all about what is best for you.

If you are so essential to the business, did she offer you a promotion? Did she offer to make you a partner? No. She said you can work at home for a couple of months. Wow. Big whoop. She could not have offered you anything more than that, could she?

And here's a question you might put to her: "Let's say I was hit by a bus and killed. Would you close the firm, because it simply could not continue without me?"

What do you think she would say?

It is nice that she needs you, but that need has to manifest itself in a solid way, like you being made a partner in the firm, for it to mean anything more than it suits her for you to be working your butt off for her.

Do what you need to do for YOU, CCB. That is what your boss is doing, that is what your WW does. You do not owe either of them anything. Your boss employs you, and you fulfilled your obligations by working hard for the money you were paid. Fair exchange is no robbery, as the old saying goes.

If your boss was offered the chance to become a partner in one of the top three legal firms in the country, do you think she would stay where she is? Hell no! Her desk would be cleared in under a minute.

You have not ripped her off; you just need to move on. By attempting to steam-roller over you, she is just playing the game. She is taking a chance, and seeing if it works. It is all just a game.

Try an experiment: leave, relocate, and see if the business is still running a year from now. If it is, it clearly has the capacity to roll with the punches. If it isn't, and your departure causes its closure, why aren't you the CEO?

To repeat, do what you need to do, and the rest of the world will go on regardless. The most important thing is for you to get away from everything that has hurt you over the past year. And to get yourself established in a new job, a new place, and a world of new opportunities. Do not let anyone take that away from you. Nobody has the right to do that.

[This message edited by M1965 at 8:18 PM, July 15th (Thursday)]

posts: 1178   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2017   ·   location: South East of England
id 8675953
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grubs ( member #77165) posted at 1:49 AM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

Put your resignation in writing and hand it to her and the head of the office tomorrow morning. Waiting until Monday is just procrastination and conflict avoidance. Tell her you have enjoyed working with her and appreciate her desire for you to remain, but this is what you feel is best path to healing and to your best life.

[This message edited by grubs at 1:53 AM, Friday, July 16th]

posts: 748   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2021
id 8675955
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Marz ( member #60895) posted at 1:54 AM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

You don’t need anyone’s permission to do anything.

It’s your life.

posts: 6623   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8675956
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fareast ( member #61555) posted at 2:02 AM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

Don’t beat yourself up! Many years ago in the middle of the night I got a call from a former colleague who wanted to know: How did you manage the courage to tell the managing partners you were leaving? I’m petrified? Managing partners are very adept at this type of manipulation. The enterprise will survive. I told him I knew it would be unpleasant, and once they realized I was going, it was going to be cold and difficult. You just have to go do it. No, firmly and respectfully communicated, is a complete sentence. You will learn. Don’t sweat that it bothers you now. Just stick to your guns and do what is best for you. By next year at this time it will not even be a blip.

Never bother with things in your rearview mirror. Your best days are on the road in front of you.

posts: 2797   ·   registered: Nov. 24th, 2017
id 8675958
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LostInHisFog ( member #78503) posted at 3:10 AM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

It's probably coming from a good place but your boss did you no favors. If she didn't know you had another job lined up she might have thought you were throwing everything away to flee, which isn't the case.

In my country resigning is done with a letter, write a detached, black and white, 'this is my two weeks notice' letter to make it official (and something she can't ignore) and then when you hand it to her just say you have something lined up, this is in your best interest, thank you.

You've now seen that it's easy for her to ignore what is in your best interest and manipulate/push her own agenda so it's time for the good ol' grey rock, detach and be the rock during the next confrontation. I still hope that she misunderstood and didn't realize you have something solid to go to, a new start.

I'm sorry you were left feeling like that, I can only imagine you thought it would start closure and instead of feeling like you can breathe you were left feeling more constructed. You HAVE to get away from that area, that house, this is the right choice!

When ever you find yourself losing control of the situation 'be the rock!' detach, re-group, try again (if you have to try again.) You're making so many positive moves to start your recovery journey, don't let this knock you back, if anything get fiery and forge onwards.

I edit because I'm fluent in typo & autocorrect hates me.

posts: 151   ·   registered: Mar. 14th, 2021
id 8675970
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HeartFullOfHoles ( member #42874) posted at 6:02 AM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

Throwing yourself into work is a way of dealing with this and likely works for some, but is that what is best for you? Only you can answer this and treat her comments like all the ones here, take what works best for you and after consideration reject anything that doesn't. You get to control your own destiny!

BH - Tried to R for too long, now happily divorced
D-Day 4/28-29/2012 (both 48 at the time)
Two adult daughters

posts: 674   ·   registered: Mar. 24th, 2014
id 8675985
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Jambomo ( member #74853) posted at 9:24 AM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

"I'm not going to let you make a decision about work right now."

Your boss is Wayyyyy overstepping her boundaries here. As a manager, we can suggest to people that they consider something but you can't TELL them not to do something.

I would let her know you have considered it fully and have accepted a really good job, one that would be good in any circumstance and that you are happy that you are making the correct decision for you. You can be clear that you understand she is trying to help you but mainly be firm, talk as though its done, certain and happening. Also have a formal resignation letter to hand her.

If she still refuses to take it then put the resignation into someone higher.

posts: 240   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020   ·   location: Scotland
id 8675993
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Sharkman ( member #56818) posted at 12:02 PM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

Everything humans do is ultimately manipulative. We also look at the bad side of things, that’s also in our nature. Your boss clearly likes you as an employee and as a person. That’s a very, very good thing and you should take that as the complement that it is.

Don’t feel worse about it, it should make you feel better.

She’s also a survivor as well and is probably sensitive about this topic. This is how she’s copes. If I was dead set on quitting I’d get her a small gift (something with some thought) and go back in. Explain to her that you appreciate what she’s doing l, as a person and not your boss, but that things are a little bit more complex than you laid out and it’s pretty essential to move. If she pushes say something like it’s not the job you’re leaving, it’s the area. You’ve already started making plans to leave and the balls are already too far in motion.

posts: 1716   ·   registered: Jan. 11th, 2017
id 8676025
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Butforthegrace ( member #63264) posted at 12:08 PM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

I feel like I got manipulated and walked all over again - so I'm feeling shitty that I wasn't able to stand up for myself YET AGAIN and to someone else. I don't really know the best way to proceed now.

Infidelity is a mind-fuck in many ways, but perhaps the biggest part is how it pulls the rug out from under our sense of reality. For most of us, marriage and family becomes a bedrock in our lives, the foundational stone on which the rest of the structure is built. Suddenly, it's gone and we're floating over a void, at risk of plunging into a bottomless pit.

You weren't manipulated. Your boss essentially asked you for a second chance. Yes, she did it in a pushy way, but that is because she values you both in terms of how good you are at work, and also because she herself has been through what you're experiencing and she wants a good outcome for you.

Do you see that the difference lies in the motivation of the person who is pushing you? Your WW is selfish, manipulating you for her own personal interests. Your boss is putting you first, trying to help you, for you.

I was given similar advice by my boss (also at a law firm) in my infidelity, and staying at the workplace ended up being a good move for me. If you have built a nexus of successful workplace relationships, there is a lot of value in keeping that in place.

"The wicked man flees when no one chases."

posts: 3771   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2018   ·   location: Midwest
id 8676028
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beb252 ( member #78948) posted at 12:24 PM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

CCB,

Well, I messaged you about this. I had the same scenario from my previous company wherein it took me 3 months to render my resignation. My boss was a close friend and she literally threw my resignation letter at my face the first 2 times I went to her office to formally resign. The third time, she reluctantly received it because I was determined to leave that time. I also told her I had a better offer from a big company that time, I lied, but now I really am in a big multinational company.

It takes a lot of courage to leave something that has emotional attachments to you, especially the camaraderie with your coworkers, some of them are close friends, some you consider brothers and sisters... but we need to grow ourselves. We need to grow for our future, for our career and also in your case, it's essential for your healing because staying will cause you bitter memories of your past.

All the best!

posts: 378   ·   registered: Jun. 14th, 2021
id 8676029
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lparistotle ( new member #78629) posted at 2:16 PM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

CheesecakeBaker this is the first step to taking control of you life. Do not dwell on this. You have thought about this and now it is time for people to listen. If you are that valuable then you will be just as successful elsewhere and compensated accordingly. Do what is right for you and tell everyone THIS IS ABOUT ME and to hell with you all. Enough is enough. You will feel so liberated.

posts: 6   ·   registered: Apr. 8th, 2021   ·   location: US
id 8676080
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TheWrongOne ( member #78753) posted at 3:53 PM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

Excuse my language, but your boss can go f*ck off. Give her your resignation letter and on the last day leave and don't go back. It is that simple.

Or if you are an "at will" employee, leave whenever you want. You can walk out the door with no notice and no reason for leaving. Heck, you are moving to another country so it is doubtful your new employer will care how you left the old one.

posts: 180   ·   registered: May. 6th, 2021
id 8676106
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 CheesecakeBaker (original poster member #78991) posted at 4:22 PM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

You weren't manipulated. Your boss essentially asked you for a second chance. Yes, she did it in a pushy way, but that is because she values you both in terms of how good you are at work, and also because she herself has been through what you're experiencing and she wants a good outcome for you.

Do you see that the difference lies in the motivation of the person who is pushing you? Your WW is selfish, manipulating you for her own personal interests. Your boss is putting you first, trying to help you, for you.

Butforthegrace: thank you.

I appreciate you pointing this out. It is hard for me to think clearly right now. But I can see that she was not necessarily trying to manipulate me.

I just feel so broken down, so defeated, like I can't do anything right. I get that other people are going to want to look out for me, but honestly, right now, I really just need to do what is best for ME.

I want to move. I want to start a new job. I want to start a new journey in this life and I think that is what is the right thing for me right now.

One of my other co-workers I am close with - who is aware now of the divorce and my conversation with my boss - told me that he fully supports my move and would do the same thing in my shoes. He said he just wants me to take some time to think through the job thing. He is out of town but asked me if I would speak with him on Monday morning. I think I can give myself a boost of confidence by talking to him Monday morning and then going to see my boss afterwards and staying firm in resigning.

Indeed, I technically am an "at-will" employee and can leave at any time, for any reason, with or without notice...but I don't want to burn bridges here, especially given how petty the legal community can be. You never know how word gets around or when or where it will go...

posts: 103   ·   registered: Jun. 22nd, 2021
id 8676118
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jb3199 ( member #27673) posted at 7:00 PM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

but I don't want to burn bridges here, especially given how petty the legal community can be. You never know how word gets around or when or where it will go...

Legal community or not, you don't want to burn bridges, because because (1) you are not leaving on bad terms, (2) you may or may not need something favorable from them someday in the future, (3) it does seem that they like your services, and wanted you to stay, and (4) most importantly, it's not in your character to burn bridges if they don't need to be burned. This is the type of person that you are, and that's a good thing. Don't let others change what goes against your being.

BH-50s
WW-50s
2 boys
Married 28yrs.(together over 30yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day(s): Enough
Accepting that I can/may end this marriage 7/2/14

posts: 3820   ·   registered: Feb. 21st, 2010   ·   location: northeast
id 8676181
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Jambomo ( member #74853) posted at 7:11 PM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

I would really emphasise the positives with your friend and your boss. Emphasise that you have a really good job offer, one that you would have taken anyway, will be close to friends and family etc. That shows this is a planned and considered move and not the “running away” she is thinking it is.

They do have your interests at heart I think, but I can see why almost telling you what to do would feel manipulative. I think she just said it in a bad way.

posts: 240   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020   ·   location: Scotland
id 8676187
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KingofNothing ( member #71775) posted at 10:25 PM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

CCB:

I just...ugh. I feel like what is best for me is to GET OUT of this house I'm in, and the state I'm in where everything reminds me of HER and where all my memories are of HER. I feel like being around my family and friends who care for me and starting a new job will be so healthy for helping me occupy my thoughts better and move on. Luckily, I'm not starting at the new job until August 9 - so I have some cushion time.

Your heart is giving you the answer you NEED. You know what to do. You aren't obliged to work anywhere. You knew they would pressure you to stay. Feel validated in that you've done a fantastic job that they value-- you will have a similar impact on your next job.

Besides, I don't agree with your boss's assessment of how to "correctly" handle infidelity. To get so successful at her job she can throw it in her ex's face? Really? That's what she is working toward? Get successful for your OWN reasons. For YOU, not to get back at someone. Be your best self.

I think you're making the right decision for you right now. Avoid taking counsel of your doubts and fears. They are the enemy of decisions.

Rex Nihilo, the King of Nothing
----------------------------------
“If you’re going through hell, keep going. Just please stop screaming, it’s not good for morale.”
— Winston Churchill

BS 3 DDays/Attempted R, it failed. In a better place

posts: 769   ·   registered: Oct. 7th, 2019   ·   location: East Coast USA
id 8676264
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TheWrongOne ( member #78753) posted at 11:03 PM on Tuesday, July 20th, 2021

CheesecakeBaker

Stopped wearing my wedding ring.

It feels so weird. It made me sad to look at my finger with it on; it makes me sad to look at it now that it's off.

Journey to Mordor and cast it back into the fiery chasm from whence it came.

posts: 180   ·   registered: May. 6th, 2021
id 8677128
Topic is Sleeping.
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