Topic is Sleeping.
beb252 ( Member #78948) posted at 8:11 AM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021
I feel your pain, bro...
WW, I know that you're in love with Mark. I can see it in your face. You feel lonely when you don't see him. And you're constantly communicating with him through your electronic devices. I know you won't last a day without seeing him. You know how much I love and care for you and I want you to be happy. I don't want you to pick me over him. I want you to pick what will make you happy. And as far as I can see now, you're happy with him.
You pick him over me to go outside.
You pick him over me to communicate your feelings.
You pick his physical presence over me and I know that.
In fact, you love spending time with him at night until the wee hours.
As much as it's hurting me, I know I have to let you go now.
This is affecting my physical health.
This is affecting my mental health.
It's painful to see that you love to spend so much time with him than me.
And it's killing me everyday.
I will be talking to my lawyer and I will be filing a divorce.
As much as it's hurting me, I still want to see you happy.
Hope you have a wonderful future with Mark.
guvensiz ( Member #75858) posted at 8:35 AM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021
Avoid drama and do not pick me dance. Be calm, don't cry and beg. Have self-respect and determination in your demeanor and voice.
You don't need any proof to get a divorce if you think what you've seen is absolute deal beraker for you. But you don't make that impression. You still have hope and you want to believe her. So you'll need tangible evidence to avoid firstly your denial and then her possible denial at confrontation. Don't make a claim you can't prove, if you can't shut the door and get out without looking back.
[This message edited by guvensiz at 2:46 AM, June 23rd (Wednesday)]
Rufus ( New Member #75754) posted at 9:06 AM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021
Your divorce lawyer is going to advise you not to tell her to quit her job. That could turn a no alimony, simple parting of ways into an alimony situation. Also, whatever surveillance you choose to do, be mindful of your obligations to the bar. There was a story a few years ago about a young lawyer with a good thing going at a good firm who pretty much lost that because he read his wife's email without permission and that email included correspondence with her divorce lawyer or some other confidential or privileged communication. He was disbarred. Common sense, but don't get carried away with any obsessive desire to know. Focus on yourself right now and what you will do, which I suggest should be planning for your life moving forward without her. If she sees you checking out and comes around and has not gone so far with this Mark that you cannot get over it, great. I think that is an outside chance at best and likely to involve continuing pain, doubt, and uncertainty for you in any event, but maybe that could happen. What she is doing is highly abusive. It sucks. She may not be trying to hurt you but this is eating you from the inside out. The only way to end this abuse and your suffering and contain the damage this is doing to you is to detach. It's not a great option, but I think it is your best. As much as you may be aware that you are suffering now, you may vastly underappreciate the damage this can inflict. It does not all appear on the surface. Some of the people here giving advice that is consistent with what I am giving you know this from their own experience. I know that some of them, myself included, had a more complicated situation to unwind because of young children, mortgages, and the intertwining and entanglement of more than a decade of married life where pretty much everything has grown together as one organic mass. There is really nothing you can do about her decision to hang out with this guy other than decide that you will not put up with it. Sure, you can express your objection or try to communicate and plead your pain and despair, even expose the affair and try to blow it up or whatever, but keep sight of what you would try to accomplish through any of that. If you would let her and maybe the world know that this is not acceptable, you do that by swiftly deciding that you will not put up with this. At 29 with no kids, this could be an unimportant chapter in your life.
Rufus ( New Member #75754) posted at 9:06 AM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021
[This message edited by Rufus at 7:28 AM, June 23rd (Wednesday)]
OrdinaryDude ( Member #55676) posted at 9:55 AM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021
Honestly she sounds like she is checked out.
Let her go, cut ties and move on.
You have so much life ahead of you and you don’t need to be tied to what she has become.
You can do so much better for yourself.
Me - BH 50+
Her - WW 50+
Married 30+ years, 2 adult kids
(1989) PA Rug-Swept
(2002) EA Rug-Swept
(2016) EA *Getting Out Of Infidelity*
**Working at Reconciling**
beb252 ( Member #78948) posted at 10:08 AM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021
I agree with OrdinaryDude. She's only staying for the comfort you bring her. But physically and emotionally, she's with Mark now.
She knows she has a brighter future with you but her actions prove that physically and emotionally she's with Mark.
You need to show her a future without you. I'm pretty sure she'll realize it's her loss.
SpaceGhost0007 ( Member #46539) posted at 12:15 PM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021
I am so sorry for what is happening in your marriage. I think it’s time to start acting and stop being so passive.
You’re in a new marriage you should be having sex all the time. You and her should NOT be married. Your wife is in an intimate relationship with another man. She is probably having sex with him what else do you do until 2:00am with another man.
You are far to passive in this.She loves the Mark and there’s no consequences to her treatment.of you. Good god man stand up for yourself. She either has an intimate loving relationship with you or you divorce.
My advice is to dump her. Your already in a sexless marriage with a woman who is dating another man. Screw her you are the prize when did men get so passive. There is no reason to be married and she is showing you what your future will be. Run for the hills. Don’t put up with this crap for one more day.
And who in the hell takes another man to a wedding? Women live for that shit and that tells you what she thinks of you. Take control of your life.
KingofNothing ( Member #71775) posted at 1:45 PM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021
I read your original post on Reddit and haven't changed my opinion since reading it. Your wife is very poor marriage material. You have confronted her, you have tried to communicate openly and calmly about how you are concerned about how her relationship with Mark has gone far beyond your comfort zone. She even acknowledges this but refuses to act upon it. There's no respect or love being shown here. If you want to stay with her there are going to have to be some changes made fast, because I can tell this situation has had a very deleterious effect on your mental health.
Tell her she can has formed a romantic relationship with a stranger outside her marital boundaries. This has been happening-- there's no hiding it any more. She has actively been choosing his company over yours, cares more deeply for him than you, and clearly prefers his company than yours. Have you tried to invite yourself to these all night drinking binges with her co-workers? I'm willing to bet good money that was shot down fast. There are so many red flags here.
So, tell her it's just fine. She CAN do this. She can have her relationship with her work buddy and go out and get drunk and be mysteriously missing and be unaccountable for it with no explanations. However, you DON'T have to stay married to her. There's nothing in the world that will MAKE you choose this form of abuse (yes, Adultery is abuse-- just look at your own health right now). I am not advocating for a plan one way or the other, but she needs to be shocked out of limbo sooner or later, and you need to clearly communicate that there will be consequences that you will take to protect YOURSELF if she doesn't right-adjust her behavior immediately. If she refuses.. well, I think you have your answer, then, right? That's who she chooses to be with.
You are young enough to bounce back and find someone who is capable of being faithful; it's not going to be a cakewalk one way or the other. I just don't see much in the way of remorse or concern for her partner here, and that suggests an obvious course of action to me.
Rex Nihilo, the King of Nothing
“If you’re going through hell, keep going. Just please stop screaming, it’s not good for morale.”
— Winston Churchill
BS 3 DDays/Attempted R, it failed. In a better place
chepo1966 ( New Member #75720) posted at 2:10 PM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021
I'll give you some advice, I may be totally unpopular to tell you, -
The first thing you have to do is try, to be as indifferent as possible with her, try to leave or arrive later, that she comes home, tries to worry, just for you, enroll in a gym, try to do a lot of activity Physically, this will help you, physically and mentally, increase your self-esteem, and begin to see things from another point of view,
You should start playing, in the same way as her, maybe she is very sure of you, and that is not bad, try to go out, do not stay home alone, try to meet new people, and the most important thing is your indifference towards her, do not try to talk to her, about her friend, that she will do to you, come home late, change your schedules, sleep in another room, when you are late, all this, will make her do that you , to talk,
you have two posivilities,
1 for her to react and be honest with you,
2.- that she be honest with you and tell you that she is already on an adventure with her friend
She thinks something, if she doesn't have intimacy with you, for so long, with whom do you think she has it?
You should put a VAR in her car, and some cameras in your house, for safety and anticipate her acts,
Luck and truth, indifference hurts them.
TheWrongOne ( Member #78753) posted at 3:22 PM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021
Just divorce her for Pete's sake!
Newlifeisgreat ( Member #71308) posted at 7:12 PM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021
Stop playing the Pick Me Dance!
Women do not find weakness and indecisiveness attractive at all.
At the very least, you are her Plan B.
Most likely, she is having a physical affair with her, and it has been going on for a while.
Talk to someone in your firm and file for divorce. Have her served at work.
Never allow ANYONE to show you disrespect, especially at this monumental level!!!
Pull the trigger and file.
If she comes to you and says she doesn’t want a divorce, then tell her that you will schedule a polygraph for her in the near future. Her reaction will tell you all you need to know, and which if you were honest with yourself, you know already.
Don’t waste another day on her!!
Good luck, stay strong, and do what you must in order to look the man in the mirror in the eye.
Betrayed SpouseShe cheated and I filed immediately upon discovering. She never even suspected that I knew until the moment she was served with reason being AdulteryDivorced 9/18Now VERY happy with new life, 0 regrets
beb252 ( Member #78948) posted at 11:41 PM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021
I agree with newlifisgreat!
She definitely knows she has a brighter future with you so she's not letting go, for now, at the very least. But her body and mind now belongs to Mike whether you like it or not.
Going to a wedding with a 'friend'? Man, you should be the one going to the wedding with her not with a 'friend'.
Give yourself some dignity and move on. She's not worth it. Even if she picks you when you do the pick me dance, she won't be the same girl you married.
You're still young, you have a brighter career ahead of you. You know the law at the very least. Take off that rose-tinted glasses.
The woman you thought you married is a fantasy. She's non-existent! You created that fantasy based on her persona but that's not her.
All the best!
CheesecakeBaker (original poster Member #78991) posted at 4:19 AM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021
Required Reading: "Not Just Friends", by Shirley Glass.
Started reading this and it's been incredibly insightful, along with all the other advice here. I am looking forward to continued reading.
We spoke about this a little last night. I mentioned my specific concerns and told her that what's been happening is not okay and that it feels like lines and boundaries are being crossed. She seemed unphased. She seemed offended that I would even think that something inappropriate was going on. She denied that they have been physical together. She said "I've only been out till 2am with him twice". Yeah, well that's two too many times for me, I said.
She seemed to refuse to even attempt...to see it from my point of view. Or an outside perspective. It's telling to me that so many other people could recognize that maybe even texting a coworker so much and worrying about his well being after the drinking was crossing a line. My wife seems to refuse to believe that she's crossing lines. She refused to acknowledge that maybe what she's doing is wrong or actually hurtful. "He's like my best friend right now". Yeah, well why can't I be that? I'm your husband! I know things are rocky and weird with us right now - but I'm trying to work on things and I can't help but feel there's stuff you're not telling me.
All I want is for her to accept some..responsibility and remorse. She kept saying "what do you want me to do?" She kept pointing out that they really haven't been together too much or stayed out late more than twice. Ugh it just feels like we got nowhere.
I don't want to have to feel like I have to tell her what to do. I shouldn't have to...walk her through this. If I am uncomfortable and hurt by something she's doing like this, she should know what she can do and change to prevent me from continuing to be in pain by her actions. She said she wants to do a few individual therapy sessions to figure herself out. I don't know why that's necessary. I told her what's bothering me and hurting me and she seems unwilling to let this dude go.
You definitely have cause to investigate further. I would check her phone, phone records as others have suggested. I would check email accounts and social media, chat apps
If I decide to do this, does anyone have suggestions on how to proceed with "revealing" anything I find that is damning evidence? I know it's weak and stupid of me to feel this way but I can't shake the feeling that its not ok for me to do this and feel like if I proceed down this path and DO find something...when I present it to her, it's gonna turn into more Gaslighting and more deflecting and defense and pointed remarks about how I crossed a line and blah blah blah. I know by cheating, SHE'D be the one to cross BIGGER lines first but still..,I'm having a hard time getting myself to go through with this one and how to proceed in the event I do discover evidence...
This0is0Fine ( Member #72277) posted at 4:28 AM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021
"Give me your phone, I'd like to read the texts you sent each other and check them against the phone bill"
[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 12:05 AM, June 24th (Thursday)]
Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.
Buffer ( Member #71664) posted at 4:28 AM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021
VAR her car.
One day at a time
Stevesn ( Member #58312) posted at 4:30 AM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021
My wife and I live by a very important rule: if anyone in our partners life is making the other uncomfortable, for any reason, that person is removed from our life.
And if it’s because they are being improper or forward in a romantic way, that’s the number one reason we remove them.
She has answered your questions and concerns insufficiently a great number of times. It’s time to stop talking to her about it.
Simply state: I will not share my wife with another man. He is obviously more important to you than I am. I am moving on and removing him from my life. If you can’t come with me in that journey I wish you well on yours.
Then stop talking about it. Enough talking. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
You want to fight for your marriage, then tell her what you expect and then move on until you get it. Look in the mirror and tell yourself you can do this. I know you can.
And don’t let her give you lip service. If she agrees and is simply going to pine away for him that does you no good. Tell her to go to him and see if he’s truly the love of her life. She’s not treating you that way so wish her well and let her know that until she sees him as the home wrecker he is, you’re not interested in being with her.
I’ve said the same thing 3 different ways. I’m hoping one will resonate with you at least.
I wish you well.
[This message edited by Stevesn at 10:43 PM, June 23rd (Wednesday)]
fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.
ShutterHappy ( Member #64318) posted at 4:58 AM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021
What Stevesn is saying is the same as what I said, is the same as what most posters said.
You don’t need proof of her cheating, you don’t need her phone. She puts more importance to her “friend” (and herself) than to her marriage and to the effect it has on you
Any decent spouse will avoid putting himself/herself in a situation that would cause that sort of anguish to the other spouse.
I would never, not even once, spend the night alone with a female coworker at her house.Would you? Why not?
Don’t let her hurt you, walk away.
I plan on living forever. So far so good
Rufus ( New Member #75754) posted at 4:59 AM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021
You are not going to get anywhere trying to have a conversation with her about this, trying to make the case to her that this behavior is not right at all. She will continue to gas light you and say you are being unreasonable and controlling and smothering and paranoid and ridiculous and so on. I tried this with my wife for weeks that turned into months with me just getting more and more disoriented and uncertain. I questioned my own sensibility. I'd look at the objective reality and say this is nuts and would check that with her and she would turn it back that I was the problem. She and her AP were talking and plotting about all this and strategizing defense. "The best defense is a good offense," he coached her. Her AP was coaching her on how to blow me off and set me back on my heels. That were conspiring against me. It was a fun game for them. Heartless cruelty is what it is. I recommend you not engage. Do not feed the beast. It will consume you. As an exercise, take her at her word. This guy is just a solid friend who is there for her and gets her and it's all just wholesome friend and confidant stuff and you have it all wrong. Doesn't matter, it's killing you. You have made your case. Your welfare should be her first concern. Instead it is this guy. That alone is problem enough. Turn away from this and take care of yourself.
Unrealized ( Member #77151) posted at 10:33 AM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021
Hate to say it but I think she’s in pretty deep here. It’s not dissimilar to my situation, its like they follow the same script. If you find any information don’t share it with her, use it for your mental well-being. Don’t give her a chance to make you question yourself. Look after yourself and remember that there is nothing that you have done that’s caused this. It stems from her lack of character.
Sharkman ( Member #56818) posted at 11:23 AM on Thursday, June 24th, 2021
Let’s say you do investigate (you should) and you find something. You never give that away. You simply tell her ‘I know that you are cheating. This is an obvious boundary to me and I will be filing for divorce’. That’s it.
You don’t even actually need to make the decision to divorce. It’s fulfilling the primary goal of getting out of infidelity. If she doesn’t stop the affair obvious you’re left with no choice.
Do you have access to your phone bill? Does she have any apps on her phone that can be used to communicate such as Facebook Messenger or WhatsApp?
Topic is Sleeping.