Newest Member: Maifurrypurt

Just Found Out :
Pretty certain my (28M) wife(27F) is having an emotional affair

Topic is Sleeping.
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Rufus ( new member #75754) posted at 11:46 PM on Tuesday, June 22nd, 2021

The recommendations on the Shirley Glass book are good. I second them. That book fits here. I recommend you read it. Losing weight, not sleeping, inability to concentrate, obsessive anxiety about what your wife is doing with some random guy, I did all those things. Read the book. Maybe also read Cheating in a Nutshell. And prepare to go in another direction. Take care of yourself.

posts: 29   ·   registered: Oct. 28th, 2020
id 8668988
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ShutterHappy ( member #64318) posted at 11:47 PM on Tuesday, June 22nd, 2021

DD = designated driver

Me: BH
Divorced, remarried.
I plan on living forever. So far so good

posts: 1438   ·   registered: Jun. 30th, 2018   ·   location: In my house
id 8668989
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GoldenR ( member #54778) posted at 11:51 PM on Tuesday, June 22nd, 2021

Adults in an EA that have regular physical access to each other don't just talk sweet to each other, they fuck.

posts: 2642   ·   registered: Aug. 22nd, 2016   ·   location: South Texas
id 8668990
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RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 12:17 AM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021

Boundaries...

Even the pre-affair, wonderfully naïve, comfortable and trusting, twenty years into his seemingly perfect story book marriage Realityblows would NOT have tolerated half this shit especially, wife staying out drinking with her boss until 2AM!

This is not acceptable behavior, boundaries from married partners especially, relative newlyweds still in their honeymoon phase!

Required Reading: "Not Just Friends", by Shirley Glass.

You definitely have cause to investigate further. I would check her phone, phone records as others have suggested. I would check email accounts and social media, chat apps, I would VAR the car. I would monitor devices tethered to the cloud. I would track her phone by setting Google tracking or slipping on the Find My Friends app. Or, hire a PI.

Doing this could yield a lot more information than she will voluntarily provide during/after confrontation. After confrontation they will tighten what cheaters call "Opsec". They will take the affair underground, wipe all evidence, sanitize all devices, and make monumentally more difficult to get intell on the extent of the betrayal.

I wouldn't ever consider R unless I had a pretty decent idea of what, exactly, we're reconciling. The extent of the betrayal. The extent of some betrayals may be absolute deal breakers for you. Absolutely unforgivable by you. On DD the WS's always try and minimize the extent of their betrayal and extramarital wild crazy monkey sex is the least of it.

Some BS's here have captured phone conversations between their WS and the AP relentlessly talking shit about the BS. Talking about how terrible they are in bed, how stupid they are, how they've never loved them, how they hate them, are disgusted by them. They crack totally disrespectful disparaging jokes about them. We have BS's here who could have relatively easily forgiven and reconciled the physical aspects of the affair but absolutely could not forgive things said behind their back. The words said behind your back can cut much deeper than the physical betrayal and can be more telling of the true character of your spouse and your marriage.

This is where collecting evidence is so very important if you're at all considering reconciliation or if you believe there's a chance this relationship of theirs is benign.

For me, post infidelity cynical and cautious Realityblows, I'd be seriously considering cutting my loses and bailing. No kids. Few entanglements. Too many red flags 🚩...

PS: Be careful about monitoring her. Being an attorney, she must deal with a lot of confidential matters and materials. I would still surveil but, be very careful. When you feel like you have enough to confront, don't reveal your sources.

Me personally, am against confronting prematurely-unless you're done and ready to D. I'd want to see how far this thing will go, has gone. This is a good test of the relationship. If you confront too soon you run the risk of postponing the inevitable. She may straighten up for a couple years, have kids a mortgage and then do it again.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 6:34 PM, June 22nd (Tuesday)]

posts: 647   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2013
id 8668994
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Ariopolis ( member #75786) posted at 12:38 AM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021

DD = designated driver

Thank you, ShutterHappy.

So where was Mark? If this was just a coworker driving her home, I can only imagine how pathetic she was on the ride home caterwauling about Mark. Maybe Mark was sober enough at the wedding to be disgusted by her. I wonder.

posts: 140   ·   registered: Nov. 2nd, 2020
id 8668999
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Marz ( member #60895) posted at 12:44 AM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021

Adults in an EA that have regular physical access to each other don't just talk sweet to each other, they fuck.

Sorry man but a lot of betrayed spouses come here in denial of what they are dealing with. From you long and detailed post your wife is having a a sexual affair and has replaced you with her new boyfriend.

Only married 18 months. She should still be on here honeymoon.

Let her go. File for divorce and don’t waste your time on this.

You can only be a chump if you allow it. You are better and worth more than this.

posts: 6623   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8669002
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SnowToArmPits ( member #50943) posted at 2:20 AM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021

she feels like she is smothered and overwhelmed and needs space

Wait what?

You've been married 18 months and she's laying this on you. You're smothering her. Jesus. I didn't need to read anymore.

Your marriage is in big trouble, she's into the OM not you. You deserve better.

Look I'm gonna be blunt here, she sounds like a terrible wife and a very selfish person.

Your wife picker is broken to end up with her.

posts: 346   ·   registered: Dec. 25th, 2015   ·   location: Canada
id 8669009
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 2:35 AM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021

Unfortunately we see a lot of recently betrayed husbands here who want to believe their wives have been in “just an EA.” It’s very common, and indeed one of the most common lies wayward wives tell (my WW told it to me on DDAY).

This has been going every day since March, with multiple times when your wife has been at another man’s house, alone, until 2 am.

It’s a fair bet they’ve had PIV sex at least once with other multiple sexual acts during that time.

We don’t say this to hurt you but to prepare you.

Adults don’t futz around like junior high students. Adults who are attracted to each other, in close daily proximity and emotionally bonded have sex with each other in a matter of weeks, if not days.

Unprotected sex is extremely common in affairs.

1. Read the book “No More Mr. Nice Guy” because you are stuck in nice guy syndrome, a harmful psychological pattern.

Also read the book “Not Just Friends”

2. Secure VARs in select locations in your wife’s car, around your home and possibly her purse.

3. Get access to both her phone records and her phone.

4. Stop doing the pick me dance, implement a soft 180 and tell your wife you are uncomfortable with her constant late nights and outings with OM.

5. Start doing random drop ins at her office.

6. See a divorce attorney and get a packet of information, so you understand the process for divorce. Since you’re an attorney this should be easy.

7. To be on the safe side, even tho sex has been infrequent, get tested for STD’s and remain celibate with your wife.

8. Start doing one big step foe your health and body image: go to a good gym with a good free weights section and begin doing the Jim Stoppani “size” protocol. I’m not a salesman for Stoppani. I just know it works.

9. As you get a new more muscular body go get some sharp new clothes. Begin dressing sharp every single day.

Some quick steps you can take now.

Others will be along with more advice

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49Married: Feb. 1996DDAY: Dec. 20

posts: 4249   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8669014
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Butforthegrace ( member #63264) posted at 2:46 AM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021

To get proof of the full extent of what she's doing, you'll need to lay low, pretend you've accepted her explanation that it's "nothing", all while secretly doing things like VAR's, or hiring a PA, etc.

However, I'd remind you that you don't need proof of infidelity to divorce. All you need is to not want to be married any more. From your OP, it sounds like you're there.

"Wife, I've told you that I'm uncomfortable with the amount of time and energy you've been investing into your relationship with AP. I know you say it's platonic and not sexual. It doesn't matter whether I believe you on that point. What matters is that you have some sort of relationship with him and you are investing way more time, energy, and emotion into that relationship than you do into ours.

I love you and I want you to be happy. Spending time with AP clearly makes you happy. I want you to feel free to spend as much time with AP as you wish. But it can't happen as long as you are my wife. I won't share you in that way. Therefore, to give you what you clearly desire, I will take steps to end our marriage. It's not my desired outcome, but as I said, I do not want to be a hurdle to your happiness."

"The wicked man flees when no one chases."

posts: 3771   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2018   ·   location: Midwest
id 8669016
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 CheesecakeBaker (original poster member #78991) posted at 2:49 AM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021

So where was Mark? If this was just a coworker driving her home, I can only imagine how pathetic she was on the ride home caterwauling about Mark. Maybe Mark was sober enough at the wedding to be disgusted by her. I wonder.

He was drunk off his ass too, and the designated driver had to bring him home first. Then brought my wife home.

posts: 103   ·   registered: Jun. 22nd, 2021
id 8669017
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Marz ( member #60895) posted at 2:56 AM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021

Space is to spend time with her other man.

Deep down you know what’s going on. Denial is not getting you anywhere.

posts: 6623   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8669019
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tushnurse ( member #21101) posted at 3:09 AM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021

You have more than enough proof to say no more and if she doesn't like it too bad.

Consult an attorney. You deserve better.

Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 21 &23
Married for 28 years now, was 16 at the time.
D-Day Sept 26 2008
R'd in about 2 years. Old Vet now.

posts: 18940   ·   registered: Oct. 1st, 2008   ·   location: St. Louis
id 8669021
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guvensiz ( member #75858) posted at 4:08 AM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021

You described a woman in love, but unfortunately with another man.

I can really feel your pain and desperation. I've been there too, not as a husband but as a BF deeply in love. You see her drifting apart from you, if you take an action to prevent this, she makes you feel like you are boring and overwhelming her, if you don't do something and give her a space, she continues to move away from you and approach the other man. There is nothing you can do.

She indicated that she had been "trying and putting in effort" for the past year and felt like i was the one who wasn't doing anything and now she's kinda burnt out?

Did she give concrete examples of her trial and effort or did she just say it? If you didn't think she was right, you should have objected rather than apologized. She probably does blameshifting and gaslihting. She's trying to make it look like you're the problem.

As others have said, the amount of time they spend together, both on and off the job, is excessive, and this creates a lot of opportunity for PA. It would be too optimistic to think that they are not taking advantage of these opportunities. Even if, miraculously, PA has not yet occurred, it is clear that everything goes in that direction. Frankly, they don't even feel the need to hide it, they are dating right in front of you.

This all makes me feel super uneasy and hurt. My wife doesn't do any of this with me. In fact it seems like a chore to her to have to spend time with me. But she willingly and gleefully seems to adore being around this guy

Have you ever asked her what they were talking about in all this time? What are the things that she is so eager to share with him but not with you. You're right about feeling like a sıuperfluity. She may see your presence as an obstacle to spending more time with him.

After I told my wife that I was uncomfortable with her and Mark being together so much and their "friendship" or whatever it is, I felt very strongly that I shouldn't tell her what to do or anything.

This is actually what it should be. I also feel uncomfortable when someone does something just because I say it. I hope they notice the discomfort I'm feeling and give up what they're doing because they care about me.

However, your wife doesn't care about hurting you even though you have expressed your feelings and she continues what she does.

As I said at the beginning, you may be too late to get her back. Yes, I say "back" because right now it looks like her heart belongs to him. In case of making a choice, she may choose him. You are newly married and there is not much that binds you apart from your vows. And AP is also a free single man.

All this does not mean that you turn a blind eye to what is happening and accept it. You should stop nice her back and doing pick me dance. You have to stand up for yourself and say that her behavior is disrespectful and unacceptable to you. Yes, you can't control her and forbid doing things, but you can say she can do whatever she wants but not as your wife and you are out.

For now, even the things she's apparently doing are beyond the boundaries of a marriage, and she's well aware of it. Your over-understanding encourages her.

As others here say, gather as much evidence as you can before confronting her; messages, videos, PI, phone bills, credit card expenses, VAR etc... Because you do the same job, maybe you have a friend who has friend at their office. You can also get information from him/her. Their A may not be so secret for their coworkers.

You don't need any of that to break up with her after all, her attitude and how she makes you feel are enough. But you seem so in love with her and your intention seems to be R. Maybe you will change your mind when you know the whole truth. If not, at least you know what you're R with, of course R requires two people who want it and the other one hardly seems to be there.

posts: 480   ·   registered: Nov. 14th, 2020
id 8669034
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 4:20 AM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021

CCB,

I think it's possible, but unlikely, that it has not gone physical yet especially if she is still mostly open (still concealing some) contact with her AP. It's entirely possible she just enjoys the "will they, won't they" forbidden sexual tension. I would believe that with a polygraph or sufficient corroborating text messages. I would temper my own optimism is on this front with the fact that hopium is real.

As such, I would not immediately put you in the "run like hell and don't look back" camp.

I also thing "Not Just Friends" would be an excellent read for the both of you.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 1343   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8669035
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ShutterHappy ( member #64318) posted at 4:27 AM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021

Your wife is asking for space probably because you get in her way to whatever is going on with Mark.

I remember my XWW telling me she’s going to go ski with some work friends, and I told her, cool, can I come? She said no, you don’t know them (them turned out to be only the OM). I was not invited because I was in the way of her date.

I’m struggling with the best way to initiate a conversation with her that will be open and honest and productive.

You are married and supposed to be a team. You are not supposed to chase after her, asking her to behave like a spouse. It’s common sense.

You are in pain. You need to take a stand and stop letting her hurt you.

Being married doesn’t mean to let your spouse abuse you.

Keep it simple. No arguments or negociations. Your discussion is a monologue. Tell her that she is free to date any men but not as your wife. She is free like the wind!

Since she is dating another men, you have no choice but to end your relationship with her. Then walk away and detach. Don’t eat with her, sleep in a separate room etc… The more you detach, the easier it gets.

Don’t let her explain how Mark is just a friend. If she chooses you, she’ll let you know and then you can decide if you want to reconcile or not.

In the meantime, Talk to a lawyer and a doctor.

What she is doing meets the definition of EA. Is she sleeping with him? Maybe… probably but even if she’s not, you’re miserable. You don’t have to endure this.

She wants to know what you are going to do about it. The answer is that you don’t accept the abuse. You can’t control her. You can’t tell her how to behave as a spouse. But you can control YOU. And you can say “STOP. I won’t let you hurt me anymore.”

Me: BH
Divorced, remarried.
I plan on living forever. So far so good

posts: 1438   ·   registered: Jun. 30th, 2018   ·   location: In my house
id 8669039
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beb252 ( member #78948) posted at 4:56 AM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021

This is not an EA. This is a full blown affair. Adults who spend time together is not doing an EA, they are physically near each other thus, they have all the time for physical contact as they need.

posts: 378   ·   registered: Jun. 14th, 2021
id 8669043
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Buster123 ( member #65551) posted at 5:12 AM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021

...That she has on several occasions gone out drinking with him and then went over to his place and didn't get home until around 2am when he drove her home???

Brother I'm sorry you're here but I would be very surprised if this wasn't a full blown PA, your WW is already gone and you're still tip toeing around the issue. In a very short M with no kids I would suggest you dump her, you're not even being intimate, this is common because often cheaters think they would be cheating on their AP. Tell her she's got 10 seconds to show you her unlocked phone right then and there, if she refuses then tell her it's over and that you're filing for D and don't waste another minute of your life with her then EXPOSE her With ALL family and close friends without warning. Don't forget to get tested for STDs.

posts: 2414   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018
id 8669048
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beb252 ( member #78948) posted at 5:34 AM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021

CheeseCakeBaker,

Sorry man! She's gone. You're the last one to know.
She might only be using you for the comfort you give to her not the physical aspects. Don't be anybody's second choice.
She's choosing to be with Mark right now. And I bet you haven't had been physically intimate for a long time. That physical intimacy belongs to Mark now and you're the last person to know it.

You need to plan your future without her. Talk to a lawyer. Weigh in your options.
You're still young, you'll still find a more suitable partner who won't choose to be drinking with their male 'friend' rather than spending time with their husband.

All the best!

posts: 378   ·   registered: Jun. 14th, 2021
id 8669049
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Jambomo ( member #74853) posted at 7:36 AM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021

Emotional or physical affairs, doesn’t matter - they are all affairs. You have told her that you are uncomfortable with her relationship with Mark and she still carries it on.

You need to be more (brutally) honest with her. Tell her you don’t trust her right now, because you don’t and that is her fault for behaving in an untrustworthy manner - the “friendship” has reached the point that it is completely inappropriate for someone who is married - her energy, time, focus is all being invested in Mark at the expense of your relationship and you need to make sure she knows this and that it’s not ok.

Speak to a divorce lawyer. You can tell her that as she is clearly no longer interested in your marriage you are speaking to a divorce attorney. It might be enough to wake her up (the fear of losing everything can do that) however I really think you need to be in a mind frame to do this in reality and recognise that she is someone who is capable of cheating even this early into marriage, and that cutting your losses and moving on might be best.

posts: 240   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020   ·   location: Scotland
id 8669058
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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 7:48 AM on Wednesday, June 23rd, 2021

Never be a back up plan or second to anyone in your marriage.

You are either her priority OR not. And based on her behavior you are not.

She either changes ASAP or the marriage is over.

Here are a few things you should see immediately:

She quits her job immediately

She stops all contact with her boyfriend immediately

She becomes fully transparent and gives you access to her electronic devices

She gets herself into counseling (not marriage counseling for the two of you but just for herself))

She starts to be completely accountable to you on where she is and who she is with

She stops hanging out with these co-workers who are enabling this affair

She is willing to discuss her affair openly and honestly with you at all times

She never blames you for her decision to cheat

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 10556   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8669059
Topic is Sleeping.
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