SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

BTW. I'm confused about what makes this an issue now. What's going on with your H.

About once a year since my EA he would ask about what I did and I would just ignore it or rug sweap it just try to make the question go away. But in September of 2020 I finally came clean on some feelings. And that has lead us to here.

I know he is getting advice from another BS on a different site. But that's the extent of what I know and who's he talking too. We do follow each other on the other site but he is talking with Private messages. He isn't talking to his family and sometimes I know he will chat with my Bro in law.

He is hurt he is a prideful man. He feels I lied my way into the life we have and that I never truly loved him. He feels this way because I did give OM a blowjob and didn't start doing that for him until a few years ago. He feels I only just started to love him the way I should have the whole time. But that's not true and he doesn't believe a word a say. I've tried to explain to him my feelings towards BJ but he doesn't want to hear it and that it's just bullshit excuses.

My marriage is crashing because I lied and I know it. I never wanted to admit to give the OM a blowjob because I was ashamed and grossed out by my own actions.

Well, I'm obviously going to disagree with Chamomile about the pre-frontal cortex exonerating you, because if I believed that, I wouldn't even be here. As you know, I'm in a situation very similar to yours: I had a long ago A (I was 20), I minimized my feelings, I admitted to sex but left out key sexual details, BH tried to forgive but had lingering doubts, he asked more questions years later, he suffered through my panicked TT, and he finally learned things that made him question whether he would have married me if he had known the full truth. I don't think my BH was faking his pain, or using it to punish or manipulate me. How was he going to heal while he had lingering, legitimate suspicions that I was still lying to him? Both of us wish he'd blown it all up years ago, but now, we are where we are.

That doesn't mean I agree with your course of action, either. I was where you are, desperate to prove I had changed, willing to do anything to fix his pain and save my marriage, but I would never have given up custody of my kids. If I offered in a panic and then came to my senses, and he didn't understand that, then we would end up divorced. As LostGirl said, your children are not pawns. No mother should be expected to give up her children to appease someone else, not even her own BH.

I disagree that your BH is manipulative or that he's planning something nefarious. The poor man is blindsided and devastated. You guys have been in false R for six months while you hid the truth about the oral sex. Even if you've really told him everything this time, he has zero reason to believe it. He's trying to get free of the drowning, incessant doubt and pain that you inflicted. His judgment may not be what it would be if he was thinking without triggers.

So if he can't think clearly, you have to, for your kids' sake. Divorce is not a game. It is the dissolution of your marriage and a determination of what legal rights and powers you each have over your children in the future. You can't take that lightly. You don't have a crystal ball to see how that future will play out. He could decide that starting over means moving a thousand miles away for a new job or new relationship, and if he has full custody, he won't have to negotiate that with you. If one of your kids is depressed and you disagree on inpatient care or medications, you'll have no legal say. Again, I'm not saying he'll be deliberately cruel. He may genuinely believe he's acting in the best interest of your children while doing something you strongly oppose for equally good reasons.

I have no problem with you offering him generous financial terms or letting him choose who keeps the house, but relinquishing custody is not a "no backsies" decision. It's a bad solution in practical terms, and it's a bad solution in emotional terms. It's avoidant. You can't bargain your way out of this mess with grand gestures. If you kept lying through months of membership here, then you haven't been doing the work of becoming a safe partner. Start proving yourself by looking inward instead of out.

My heart goes out to you, because I remember your terror so well, but you have no "undo" button. It's way past time for you to accept it and start behaving like an adult.

WRT the custody, do some research about the fact that children do better with frequent and meaningful time with BOTH parents who work together FOR THE KIDS as coparents.

When you say "full custody" what does that mean? IOW do you mean giving your BH legal custody (so he can make ALL life decisions WRT the kids w/o considering your opinions)? Or full visitation rights (which means you don't see your kids AT ALL unless he agrees)? I don't think either is a great idea.

I can absolutely understand a BS wanting full custody - the injustice of an A and the continued deceit is a real mindf*ck, and the idea that the BS has to lose time with their kids bs the WS had an A is adding injury to an already insulting injury. However, the BS' needs, no matter how worthy, should be SECONDARY to the very real and very worthy needs of the kids.

You could sign away that custody and your BH could do a 180 on you, move a thousand miles away, etc. It would not be the 1st time a BS held the hope of R over a WS and then split the minute the ink was dry on the D papers. And I "get" that. It makes perfect sense to me. The lies remove agency, which creates imbalance that a BS may do anything to feel is somehow equalized (and if we were talking about a D settlement that screwed you financially, I don't think I'd have a problem with that... but we are talking about young humans, not who gets the newer car).

I'm not going to minimize the damage from the deceit. It's a BFD no matter how long ago. It can still completely screw with the BS' reality. If the oral was important to him, it's traumatic to learn of the lie. The good news is you have come clean.

I appreciate what you’re trying to do, the leap of faith BUT,

Offering him full custody, giving up your kids, can totally blow up in your face, can make you look bad, like NOTHING is sacred to you, not your marital vows, not even your relationship with your kids.

Go back to him and just explain that in your desperate desire to save the marriage you made a mistake offering full custody. If he’s R material, he will understand. If your BS insists on holding your feet to the fire on this, then HE is not of sound mind, at the moment, and not ready for reconciliation.

Offering full custody could also have legal implications regarding future custody rights with your kids.

Anyway, as a BS, I’m really liking your willingness to make extreme sacrifices because to fix this shit, that’s what it’s going take.

-Proactive sacrifices and effort.

-Absolute honesty. With him. With yourself.

-Reconciliation with yourself.

-Find out your Why(s) with the help of a good IC

-Initiate, proactively, full hard boundaries.

-Tune in and turn up your empathy

-Use your loving imagination empathy to stay ahead of his needs.

-Be lovingly patient.

-Talk. Whenever he wants to. Don’t get defensive. Let down your guard, and your desperation to control the outcome.

-Your end game, your primary desired outcome should be, not to reconcile the marriage but rather, to bring him peace, help him recover, ease his anguish not, NOT, to reconcile the marriage. That is a secondary and selfish goal that should evolve naturally as a result of true remorse. True remorse is selfless.

Good luck to you my fellow flawed human.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 2:08 PM, April 24th (Saturday)]

He sees me going back on my word about the kids as me being WW thinking still.

Maybe I’m reading too much into this statement, but did you tell him that you had concerns about the agreement to give him full custody, and he told you that was wayward thinking?

Brave,

I disagree that your BH is manipulative or that he's planning something nefarious. The poor man is blindsided and devastated. You guys have been in false R for six months while you hid the truth about the oral sex. Even if you've really told him everything this time, he has zero reason to believe it. He's trying to get free of the drowning, incessant doubt and pain that you inflicted. His judgment may not be what it would be if he was thinking without triggers

Is there anything I can do to help my BH. How do I approach BH? I'm giving him his space and respecting his wishes. How do I ask him how he is feeling? Do I speak of a specific actions or just ask him in general?

I'm seeking help for myself, I have started reaching out for support for myself. I told my sister everything I have done and my closest friend. During the time of my PA/EA I didn't share anything with anyone. No one knew what I was doing or thinking or feeling. No one knew what I was doing or who I was doing it with when I was 20.

I'm a little outside my wheelhouse when it comes to a BH who has said it's over and he's filing for divorce. There's a thread in I Can Relate for WS who are not in R, so you might check that out.

I'm inclined to think that nothing you say right now will help much with your BH because he simply won't believe it. He has no reason to. You're on the right track by focusing on your own accountability -- coming clean to trusted friends, seeing a therapist, and reading here. If he sees you consistently exploring how and why you gave yourself permission to lie and cheat, instead of flailing around trying to hide that you did, then that will be something new.

I'm seeking help for myself, I have started reaching out for support for myself. I told my sister everything I have done and my closest friend.

Thank God. Please follow through with that. Build yourself an emotional support network with therapist, family, and close friends. Listen to the people in your life who LOVE you. Let them guide you.

I honestly don't believe that a man who actually loves you would treat you this way. Think about it. He knew about everything except for one freaking blowjob from sixteen years ago, before you were married, before you were even all grown-up.... and he's willing to throw you away for that. Do you realize that in the ensuing sixteen years, you've replaced nearly every cell in your body? So, there's no part of you today that actually even touched the OM... but he's willing to throw you away. That's not love. I mean, seriously, look at your children. Imagine one of them being treated like this by a spouse. What would your advice be to them???

I think part of what bugs me about your situation, and so many like it, is that it's never the women we see coming in here after so many years with complaints of things that happened before the marriage had even occurred. It seems to always be men. And there's something that strikes me wrong about it. It feels controlling, like ownership. When we're seeing inconsolable where one would expect to see love and forgiveness after so many years together, it almost suggests a lack of tolerance for female sexuality altogether.

I've tried to explain to him my feelings towards BJ but he doesn't want to hear it and that it's just bullshit excuses.

What exactly are you feelings toward BJ's? And have your feeling been respected for the duration of the marriage? Are they being respected now? Or have you been in any way coerced to go outside your comfort zone?

Well, I'm obviously going to disagree with Chamomile about the pre-frontal cortex exonerating you...

@BSR: I'm not saying that young 20-somethings should be fully exonerated. Certainly though, I think it's a mitigating circumstance. And where there's love, there should be some understanding and a willingness to consider such mitigating circumstances. You say your H was for real in his feelings and who am I to argue, right? But in the end, he didn't divorce you and try to take your children and worldly goods away for something you did when you were 20 years old.

and he's willing to throw you away for that. Do you realize that in the ensuing sixteen years, you've replaced nearly every cell in your body? So, there's no part of you today that actually even touched the OM... but he's willing to throw you away. That's not love.

We often say its not the affair that kills the marriage. It's the way the WS acts after dday. And it's the lies. The OP has lied to her husband for 16 years. Over, and over. He can't trust her because she has proven to be untrustworthy. THAT is NOT love. She threw him away, with every lie.

This is not her husband's fault. It sounds like he has loved her, and he has been a good husband to her. She is the one who killed this marriage. With her lies.

It's not about one freakin blow job. It's about the lies.

[This message edited by HellFire at 6:06 PM, April 24th (Saturday)]

But in the end, he didn't divorce you and try to take your children and worldly goods away for something you did when you were 20 years old.

I agree that there's such a thing as taking a grudge too far, but I also agree with Hellfire that recent TT can't be ignored here. She wasn't 20 when she said in December that "I stopped the lies" and "there is nothing else to share, I have no more secrets." I was almost 50 when I swore up and down that my BH knew all there was to know.

This brain maturity issue comes up every so often, so I think I might start a thread on it so we don't threadjack here. I promise it's not an attempt to brigade you; in fact, I might get "outvoted" for all I know. It just doesn't read right to me. I knew what I was doing was wrong, and I don't think my age mitigates my choices at all.

It's not about one freakin blow job. It's about the lies.

It still doesn’t warrant giving up custody of your kids though.

Well obviously, we've got two different opinions, Hellfire. I think our OP should have told the truth a long, long time ago, before she got married. But she has committed no sins as a wife save for that single withholding. If her H wants to divorce her for it, I think that tells us something about him, but then again, he can get a divorce for any reason he likes. That's his prerogative If he's trying to keep her sweet while he dangles R in front of her though, that's entirely something else. Divorce should be treated as divorce. At the point where your spouse wants out of the marriage, you're only wise to consider that spouse as an adversary, because by any measure that's EXACTLY what they ARE.

I am sick to death of WS's being pummeled into believing that they deserve ANY treatment a BS cares to hand out. It's just not so. There are mitigating factors here that should have probably been meaningful to the OP's husband. It's not like he didn't already know about the PA from sixteen years ago and the EA seven years after that BEFORE he proposed marriage. I honestly think that if he's so inconsolable over a blow job from a pre-marital affair, an affair he already knew about when he proposed... he would do well to seek therapy for himself. Certainly, I don't think the OP can trust him to treat her fairly at this point, not after he's already suggested she give up everything including her children. She can still have a good life. Maybe not with her current husband, but she's still young enough to start over, find a man who actually loves and cares for her, and enjoy being a wife again if she wants. Why should she give all that up over something that happened when she was 20???

Ok, The sequence of events is clearer to me now. This sounds like a trickle truth trigger, which can be powerful. Especially if new evidence of the depth of emotional involvement is presented or new evidence of the physical involvement is presented. And time past, has no relevance. If I’m understanding the timeline correctly, he just recently received new information about the BJ and how emotionally involved you were with your AP(s)

Guys, us guys, we basically want to be your champion in every department physical, emotional. We are insecure, we’re competitive, we obsess over our masculinity, relative weakness, penis size, what you’re thinking about other guys, what other guys have done with you, to you, we do view you as property, we do have terrible double standards, we are very judgmental of women when it comes to sexual history, we’re terribly guilty of retrograde jealousy...frankly Ladies, I don’t see what you women see in us.

Yeah, I can totally see this as another DD for him, or DD flashback. I can also totally see you two getting past this BUT, BUUUT, no more TT, no more DD’s!

The reset he probably wants, is actually a clean slate. Clean that slate. Leave nothing out. Get it all on the table and leave nothing else to be discovered. He’s probably been waiting all these years for the other shoe to drop. Just waiting. Totally expecting it. Not wanting it, but totally expecting it and, every new revelation, keeps him primed for disappointment, keeps him from trusting, keeps one foot out the door, constantly reinforcing his escape routes.

He might be haunted with thoughts that he is a concession. That he’s plan-B and probably wonders if, when you two are intimate, if you’re pretending he’s the other guy. Wonders if you mentally reminisce about the other guy(s). Wonders if you’re physically attracted to him, if you two have the same chemistry you had with the other guy. If you miss that chemistry. He wants to be, needs to be, your one true love. Your greatest love. Physically and emotionally. If not, he will go packing, and start on a quest to find that woman. He wants to be part of something special, uniquely special. You two need to get that specialness back.

Explain the BJ, so that he understands that that sexual act was not special, was not special for you, was not a special act of intimacy reserved only for special men. I don’t think women fully understand the significance that certain sexual acts have on men. Here’s a poor analogy: It would be like, if I wrote love letters and poetry every week to my Ex but, I have never written love letters or poetry to you-ever. Sex, to men, is as intimate as heartfelt letters and poetry are to a woman. That BJ is not simply a sexual act, it’s a degree of intimacy that seems, to him, to have been initially denied to him, because he did not qualify, and he didn’t qualify until you felt guilty. It was not spontaneously offered. It was a constellation prize.

You need to be his valkyrie, defender of the M. Tell him as long as you have breath in your body you’re going to battle for him. He needs to be convinced that he’s The One. That you’ll settle for no other. Yes, us guys are really THAT dramatic. We’re just like you. We want to apart of something truly amazing and special. Affairs kill that.

If he can’t be convinced, if he’s not a candidate for true reconciliation, than you should move on. You don’t deserve to be punished for the rest of your life and, especially to give up your kids.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 7:25 PM, April 24th (Saturday)]

agree that there's such a thing as taking a grudge too far, but I also agree with Hellfire that recent TT can't be ignored here. She wasn't 20 when she said in December that "I stopped the lies" and "there is nothing else to share, I have no more secrets." I was almost 50 when I swore up and down that my BH knew all there was to know.

Well, considering his reaction, it's pretty easy to understand why she was so scared. He's been haranguing her for awhile now, so obviously getting this piece of information was pretty important to him. But you see what he did when he got it, right? He tried to guilt her into giving up everything she has, including her CHILDREN.

This brain maturity issue comes up every so often, so I think I might start a thread on it so we don't threadjack here. I promise it's not an attempt to brigade you; in fact, I might get "outvoted" for all I know. It just doesn't read right to me. I knew what I was doing was wrong, and I don't think my age mitigates my choices at all.

I think that would be a good idea. Like I said, I don't think it's completely mitigating. We do know the difference between right and wrong. But when this part of the brain is immature, there are issues with impulse control and correctly predicting nuanced consequences. IOW, we know that if we murder someone, even if we're underage, we might go to jail for the rest of our lives. This is spelled out in BIG letters so even a kid can understand it. But how many young people get high and drive or text and drive, thinking that nothing bad will happen because usually nothing bad happens??? It's the inability to do a really nuanced prediction of the consequences that gets young people into trouble. One of my brother's has some brain damage from a birth defect, and THIS is where that guy lives. He's unable to predict nuanced consequences for his actions. Anyway, I do agree with you. That would be a good subject of conversation.

That was a lovely post, RealityBlows. Thank you for a really honest viewpoint.

And I would agree with you that it would be okay for the OP to minister to her H's sexual insecurities IF he wasn't trying to ruin her in divorce. IOW, if there were still love there on his part and if she could trust him, then fine... he could be as insecure as the last wallflower at the eighth grade dance. But he's coming at her guns blazing. She shouldn't trust him.

Exactly ^^

But I’m unclear, did he demand full custody or did she offer it up, as a sacrifice, a show of faith, like Abraham? Is he, albeit sadistic AF, testing her resolve by not refusing it at this point. Dangerous games.

You ask the big question. Is there still love there? Is he R material? We’re always evaluating, focusing on whether the WS is R material but, many times the BS is not.

RB, I’m reading it as she offered it, he latched onto it, and now any questioning on her part is thrown back as wayward behavior. Then he has somebody online whispering in his ear that he’s owed that.

Just my take of course.

I agree that TT is a relationship killer. If he’s serious about divorce though, she does need to start looking out for herself and not just sign away everything hoping that he will decide to keep her around. IC, trusted friends, and her own lawyer. The absolutely best thing a wayward can do in my opinion is make themselves a better person. Somebody worthy of the love and faith they were trusted with. That does not however mean signing away everything out of guilt. That is simply not healthy behavior and isn’t really remorse IMO. It’s just a reaction to guilt. It’s more regret than remorse.

Well, and it's kind of ironic to see me arguing this side of the fence, because it's more common for me to throw down the gauntlet of "There's a limit to what a WS should have to tolerate from a BS, no matter how triggered." I tend to get feisty when a poster opines that WS have zero rights in the aftermath of an affair.

My D-Day #2 was a direct outgrowth of my BH saying to himself, "This is fucking ridiculous that I'm still secretly triggered by an A that happened so long ago; I need to come clean to BSR and get some help working through it." So that's what he did, and I was clearly terrified to discuss it, and that's what clued him in that his instincts weren't so crazy after all.

Something else, it sounds like he’s receiving advice from another infidelity forum. Is he using, misusing a form of The 180 on her? Is he serious about D or did he say it in anger?

Sorry, we cross posted. You just brought up the same

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 9:26 PM, April 24th (Saturday)]

Landclark,

Maybe I’m reading too much into this statement, but did you tell him that you had concerns about the agreement to give him full custody, and he told you that was wayward thinking?

Yes, I was advised to read what full custody ment and I did. So when I did tell BH I had some concerns and wanted to do joint he did say I was still the same. The same as in unable to keep my word and was still thinking like a WW. But I'm the one who offered him full custody. And I did offer it before I truly knew the full meaning of full custody. But now I do feel like if I back track and say I want joint then I'm showing I can't keep my word.

I do not believe my BH will keep our kiddos away from me. He hasn't asked me to leave and he even ask me to spend the day with him and the kiddos. He has never given me a reason not to trust him.