"You can survive this. Talk to others that have"

landclark posted 4/17/2021 10:21 AM

I think it's important to consider whether it was a reactive decision versus a response.

But who gets to decide that? Also further, people can’t abuse others over and over and over again and then get all pissy when somebody reacts. For me that falls into this idea that a BS always needs to be cool and level headed and never reactive and saintly and never blaming the OP and on and on.

Also let’s be honest here, telling four people isn’t exactly scorched earth. Especially telling four people who actually have skin in the game and deserve the truth, specifically the kids. This effects their lives as well.

ETA - We also need to remember it's not just her story, it's his. He has a right to tell his story. He doesn't need her permission or agreement on what is said.

[This message edited by landclark at 11:05 AM, April 17th (Saturday)]

HeHadADoubleLife posted 4/17/2021 10:27 AM

My hand was forced when telling my (step) daughters because he decided to have the woman in our bed while they were asleep in the next room. However, even if it hadn't been forced in that specific way, I 100% believe in telling the kids.

They already knew SO much. And were so incredibly confused by it all. The things they came out and asked me about after DDay left me flabbergasted as hell as an adult, and they had been carrying the stress of protecting those secrets for years as children.

Honesty is always best. Kids know something is up, even if they don't know what it is. And truthfully, they probably know way more than you think. I won't go into detail, but the level of things our daughters knew about was staggering.

I agree that it shouldn't be blurted out from a place of reactivity, BUT there is a middle ground between telling the kids to punish the WS and not saying anything at all to protect the kids' view of the WS.

For years I had thought I was protecting them from it. In reality I was just allowing him to get away with gaslighting them when they asked him questions or had weird feelings about things they had found and/or witnessed. To be fair, they never asked me any questions until after DDay. So in my eyes, I thought we had successfully "hidden" it. That clearly wasn't the case based off of everything they divulged to me after our lives blew up.

Once it was finally all out in the open, it was like we could finally breathe. Both of the girls have thanked me for being completely open and honest with any questions they had, even really intense and potentially awkward ones. It was amazing how much lighter we all felt once we were no longer carrying the burden of keeping up with his deception.

DanielJK posted 4/17/2021 10:35 AM

As always, thank you all for the support. I don’t know what I would do without this community, I think it’s better than any IC out there.

I’m back to that dday numbness, sitting and just staring. Time seems to creep by slowly one minute, then the next minute it’s two hours later. The profound sadness just keeps washing over me in waves like it did on dday.

I told STBXWW last week that I have been without a loving partner for 11 months, she said “that hurt.” Then sent a text later that said “And you do have a loving partner. I do many things for you and I show you that I care.” I was actually starting to believe that she was coming back to me. I would get texts periodically lately that said “I hope you are having a good day.” We were doing things together again, watching Netflix shows, still intimate even right up until Thursday (side story, may be TMI for some…we had sex on M,T and W last week…on Thursday she offered a BJ…I believe it’s because she didn’t want AP to have sloppy seconds on Friday)…and I fell for it, the hope was still there. I have only myself to blame for it. I think now it hurts so bad because I now know that the woman who loved and cared for me at one time is finally gone.

Why can’t I be like some of the others here, Mr. Flibble, Absolon, Spaceghost…who pulled themselves out of infidelity immediately. I’m going on a year since dday…I danced like a monkey, I tried everything…I still had hope right up until Thursday 4/15/2021. Some say it’s the pick me dance on steroids; I think I did the nuclear pick me dance. Guvensiz said it:

You expect a crumb of respect at every stage

I did…and I though maybe the mid life crisis was coming to an end.

@CT

your girls deserved to know what broke up their home

I told them what happened, and I said to them “I think you should know the truth, I think you should know the truth about what happened to your family.” They seemed to understand and I told them to ask me anything, the only question my oldest asked was “will you find a house in town?” (see below)

@Halftime

My daughters took it OK I guess…they are teenagers and hard to read. They seemed to understand. I told them why their mother and I can no longer be together and they seemed to understand.

@Poppy704

They will know this and they may not appreciate being used that way…This is not about your wife and punishing her, this is about not damaging your relationship with your kids any further.

Don’t care what the in-laws think and never had the impression that I would turn them against STBXWW. They are all alike, blameshifting victims…every…single…one of her direct family. In fact, since they are all blameshifting victims, I actually expect them to turn on me and start with "oh poor STBXWW." On the other hand my STBXWW’s SIL (not direct family) called me and said “good for you.” I said I hope you’re not angry with me, she said, “hell no you do what you gotta do, go for it…I think what she did is horrendous.” Turns out SIL’s brother was cheated on, she knows the destruction it leaves behind. Yes, the messages to her family were scorched earth, I may regret them some day but not today.

The message to my kids was very gentle. One of the only reasons I have not talked to them until now is that I hoped we would stay together (yes, believe it or not I still had hope). Yesterday kinda blew that hope finally out of the water, almost one year and she is still going to see AP. The other issue is that now I have no interest in being anywhere near STBXWW. If you followed my whole story from a year ago, you will see that I have been abused and manipulated from the beginning. At this point after almost a year of hell I have to physically separate for my own sanity, so my kids needed to know I was leaving and I wanted them to know why (see living arrangements below).

Also, if you followed my original thread on telling the kids, you would see that my STBXWW already told my daughters that she “had” an affair. She had the discussion about the affair with my kids already, without me present for that discussion. She kinda forced my hand, no? They deserve the truth. I was not about to let her version of events sit there and fester.

And today is STBXWW’s birthday. I am not at home, but I already bought gifts for her that will be from the kids. I gave those to the kids yesterday and told them to wrap them for their mother. I sent them a text this morning reminding them to wish their mother a happy birthday and give the presents to her. I have said my piece and will not disparage my STBXWW in front of my kids going forward (and for the record, I did not disparage her in my message, I told them what happened). The kids now know what happened, I will move on with my life from here and do my best to support my kids. I finished the message with plenty of reminders of how much I love them, that I will always be there for them, and that both their mother and father love them very much.

@20yrsagoBS

Second, how are you feeling?

Like shit. It’s like dday all over again. Hope to bounce back quicker this time.
((())) back at you, thank you.

@Graphite

Thanks for your continued support

What is happening with divorce and living space plans?

Divorce moves forward, next court day is May 7. She called my bluff on the house, she originally said she did not want it, then didn’t accept my (very low) offer. So she is going to buy out my half of the house. Which is not good because the housing market sucks right now.

I stayed in a hotel last night, fortunately I have a friend who is out of town until June and will let me stay at her condo while she is out of town. I will be there tonight. Then back at home while my STBXWW and kids are on vacation, then back to the condo on April 24. I don’t want to be anywhere near STBXWW. I hope a house or a condo comes up soon…they are going fast. I looked at a house last Tuesday and it was already sold on Wednesday.

@Cooley2here and @Hellfire

I asked my daughters if they knew something was up…they said they knew last summer.

@Bigger

Thank you , I like reading your posts here and elsewhere. Our second court date is May 7…we are well on the way to divorce. Just negotiating the house at the moment, once that is done (she was literally on the phone with a refinance broker on Wednesday) we should have a draft divorce decree. I honestly expect the draft divorce decree before may 7th. Child care, alimony, child support, division of retirement money have all been worked out.

To the guides and administrators. Thank you. I am totally in favor of hearing all sides. I have no issues with differing opinions. This site is awesome. No issues here with Poppy’s posts. I’ve thought long and hard about whether to tell my kids and what that message would be…see my original post. I just felt that my hand was forced yesterday...the last straw.

If I didn’t mention you individually, it doesn’t mean I did not read your post. I am grateful to all of you. This is such a hard time. I come and read here often. You folks have helped me immensely and words cannot describe my gratitude.

[This message edited by DanielJK at 7:12 AM, April 19th (Monday)]

nekonamida posted 4/17/2021 10:57 AM

But who gets to decide that?

This is what really gets me about the revenge debate. So because Daniel was distraught and angry in the aftermath of seeing his STBX again lying to him and with AP and told during that time, any valid reasons he could have get thrown out the window? Was he supposed to wait an appropriate amount of time after the lie to ensure his reasons for it are right or was he supposed to react to being lied to again in a more robotic way for us to feel like it wasn't motivated by revenge? And how much anger/retribution is an acceptable amount to feel for it to be ok? 30%? 10%? 5%? 0? Where do you draw the line?

I don't see the revenge argument as any different from what people say about telling OBS. Everyone he told deserved to know especially now that there's a chance that OM will be apart of their lives in the near future. He deserved to stop carrying the burden of keeping her secret. He probably justified it as acceptable to keep it under wraps as long as OM was not in the picture and then realized he couldn't do it anymore after finding out he was. We can debate revenge, punishment, and the "right reasons" all day but it doesn't discount those facts and even if he was thinking about revenge and punishment too, it doesn't suddenly change the right to truth, authenticity, and his right to tell his own story.

Poppy, IIRC, your XBH dragged you through the mud on the way out and likely poisoned the well in that respect. He may have looked a little like he was crying wolf after years of complaints and low blows. That doesn't mean Daniel did the same or plans on bad mouthing his STBX just because yours did. Telling the truth is not the same as bad mouthing.

fareast posted 4/17/2021 11:00 AM

It may not seem like it today, but things will get better. You have taken the high road throughout this ordeal, giving your WW the benefit of the doubt for almost a year. Sh has lied to you and betrayed you every step of the way. Manipulating and leading you on. Strength to you moving forward. No contact is your best friend. Good luck.

ChamomileTea posted 4/17/2021 21:23 PM

I’m going on a year since dday…I danced like a monkey, I tried everything…I still had hope right up until Thursday 4/15/2021. Some say it’s the pick me dance on steroids; I think I did the nuclear pick me dance.

Don't beat yourself up. You did what you needed to do in order to be satisfied that you had done all you could. Some people just can't move on without KNOWING they did everything possible, and there's nothing wrong with that. Everyone moves at their own pace and there's a reason for that. It's because we don't want to put ourselves in a position where we have regrets. So yeah, you might have spent a year making absolutely sure, but now.... you're absolutely sure, right?

You know, the fact that you're so careful to make the best decisions and not to hurt people is going to make you a stock which trades high in the end. Believe it. Have some faith in yourself.

And don't be a bit bashful about keeping up with your girls while things are up in the air. Call them every night and spend as much time with them as possible. If you run into your STBX while you're doing it, act like it's no big deal. Give her some gray rock and just move on with your kids. She had her chance, so feel completely free to be done taking any shit off her.

Strength to you.

OwningItNow posted 4/18/2021 03:13 AM

I was actually starting to believe that she was coming back to me. I would get texts periodically lately that said “I hope you are having a good day.” We were doing things together again, watching Netflix shows, still intimate even right up until Thursday (side story, may be TMI for some…we had sex on M,T and W last week

I don't know why...but it feels like dday all over again.

Because it is. I am so very sorry. I think you will recover more quickly from this dday, but it is still extremely painful. Be gentle with yourself. You are doing the best you can, and that is enough.

But who gets to decide that?

We do. We decide on our own truth about what is right and wrong. When we ask for opinions, we'll hear different views, but those views only help us reach our own conclusions for ourselves. Other people's opinions should not change what we have decided is right and true for us.

Daniel, you seem to have handled the situation with your daughters very well, especially given your trauma. It does not sound like you are too worried what the in laws think which is smart. We all do the best that we can do, and you are making some pretty clear and strong choices right now. If guilt creeps in, remind yourself of these truths. If your stbxww lashes out (you haven't said her reaction to what's going on?) remind yourself of the facts: you did take the girls' feelings into account and told them gently, and they do deserve to know what is happening. Somewhat same with the in laws.

In my experience, 'truth with compassion' works as a compass in my life, but it's also true that you cannot control the outcome because many people see truth as an attack (and then try to deny the factual truth). It's easy to second guess ourselves when that happens. At that time I say to myself, "It was truth. It needed to be said, and I said it calmly." There is no shame in calmly speaking the truth. I think you've done well under devastating circumstances, Daniel. Wishing you strength during this time.

T/J Loved your post, Bigger.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 3:15 AM, April 18th (Sunday)]

leavingorbit posted 4/18/2021 08:16 AM

But who gets to decide that? Also further, people can’t abuse others over and over and over again and then get all pissy when somebody reacts. For me that falls into this idea that a BS always needs to be cool and level headed and never reactive and saintly and never blaming the OP and on and on.

Also let’s be honest here, telling four people isn’t exactly scorched earth. Especially telling four people who actually have skin in the game and deserve the truth, specifically the kids. This effects their lives as well.

ETA - We also need to remember it's not just her story, it's his. He has a right to tell his story. He doesn't need her permission or agreement on what is said.

landclark, I'm not sure if this was in response to my post or not but I was quoted, so I wanted to clarify: I agree that kids need to be told the truth. My point was how they're told vs telling/not telling. I was asking Daniel for clarification, which he has explained in his follow up post. I'm sorry for not stating that in my original reply!

I think you've done well under devastating circumstances, Daniel.

So true, OIN, I agree. Strength and healing to you, Daniel.

DanielJK posted 4/18/2021 10:13 AM

ChamomileTea

but now.... you're absolutely sure, right?

Am I absolutely sure? Yes, I'm absolutely sure that divorce is the right thing to do. Beyond any shadow of a doubt. No question.

But...I still want her back. My heart just will not let go...it's so hard to let go.

Owningitnow

it is still extremely painful

It hurts like hell.

That's why I have to get away. I'm hoping the physical separation will do me some good. And that's part of the discussion with my kids. I told them that I can't be together with their mother while she is seeing another man. They understood.

(you haven't said her reaction to what's going on?)

I have not seen or spoken to STBXWW since calling her from work on Friday afternoon. I knew she was going to MA during the day. I have a GPS on her car and she does not know it. I called her as soon as she arrived at AP's house. I acted like I was just checking in with her...like hey what's up etc.

I asked, are you still going to MA today?

STBXWW - yes

Are you going to see AP while you are there? (I knew she was already there).

STBXWW - no, why do you ask?

Where are you?

STBXWW - why do you ask?

WHERE ARE YOU?

STBXWW - Daniel, why are you asking me that?

WHERE ARE YOU!!!

STBXWW - Are you tracking me? (the poor victim here, being tracked is the true crime here, good God).

More denial, more squirming...she lied to me until the bitter end...I hung up and copied her on the text I sent to her family telling them that we are divorcing because STBXWW is cheating on me.

STBXWW already had a vacation planned with my daughters. I was originally invited, but uninvited about two weeks ago. It's with her brother's family and one other family. It makes me wonder if I was uninvited because AP is going (?). They are on their way to the outer banks NC as I write this. They will be there until Saturday. I'm lonely already.

When we speak again I fully expect her to be angry and play the victim, that's her MO. She has not tried to contact me and I have not tried to contact her.

On Friday night I received a strange message on my phone..."Google find my device has located this device." She was either trying to find me or trying to figure out how I tracked her. She turned off her location sharing long ago, so I'm sure she's trying to figure out how I knew where she was. She still hasn't figured out that there is a GPS on the car. I would recommend the GPS for anyone wondering about infidelity. The device, a magnetic case, and a three month cellular plan can be done for under $200.

This is hard. I don't want to be alone and I don't want to be away from my daughters. This is the first time not sharing a vacation with them since they were born. Road trips with them is one of my favorite things in life.

GTeamReboot posted 4/18/2021 11:59 AM

This is the first time not sharing a vacation with them since they were born. Road trips with them is one of my favorite things in life.

Oh man that’s tough. I can imagine how hard that must be. I hope you can find some meaningful ways to spend the week, with friends or hobbies. If your girls are in touch, embrace any enthusiasm they show for the fun they are having. Stay connected to their experience even if it hurts. And know this... Your road trips with them are far from over! Maybe you can plan a wonderful daddy daughter trip for this summer. And many more to come. But, I know that does little to help the sting of right now.

I’ve followed your story off and on over the past year. I fully agree you handled this well. As the daughter of divorce where there was infidelity, I agree the kids have a right to know age appropriate info. You made the right move. I hope things continue in the right direction for you as you get through the D process.

src9043 posted 4/18/2021 12:30 PM

Please, for your own sanity and in order to begin to heal, you must separate from her now. You must find a different living arrangement. You cannot continue to live under the same roof. She is simply disgusting, and very much like my ex-wife. Stop flogging yourself. This is heartbreaking. Do not continue this way. Get the hell away from her. Tell her that you know what she did Friday and you are disgusted by her. Work out a child custody arrangement so that you can see the kids. Work out a deal where you have the house with the kids on your custody days. She can return to the house when it is her turn to be with the kids. Do this until all matters are settled and separate permanent residences have been established. Go NC unless it involves issues concerning the divorce or the children. Nothing else.

Stop being the victim in this cruel story. Start today and remain focused. Never, ever touch her again. It is time to be proactive. Concentrate your efforts on getting stronger physically and emotionally. Get into IC with someone that can keep you on track to do what is necessary to get out of infidelity. Spend time with friends and family. That is so important. I wish you better days ahead. Make it so and extricate yourself from this nightmare of a marriage starting today.

[This message edited by src9043 at 12:41 PM, April 18th (Sunday)]

blahblahblahe posted 4/18/2021 13:43 PM

My experience was the most challenging when I vacillated through so many scenarios (courses of actions) in my mind .

Once I came to a decision and began to act with decisiveness solutions that were not so apparent become so rather quickly.

Some people may like you, some may hate you, regardless, your destiny is now for the first time since this began, in YOUR hands.

Bigger posted 4/18/2021 13:53 PM

Try this: Imagine that instead of infidelity threatening your family you wake up to the chirping of smoke-detectors and realize there is a fire in your home.
There are benefits to a burning home… It’s warm, if the correct wood is burning there is a nice, comforting smoke-smell, the flames look nice in the dark…
But I really doubt you would take your time to enjoy the flames or wonder if there was some way you could coexist with them. I also doubt you would settle for the flames only burning in the living room or would be content with thinking that they might be out.

It’s the same with your marriage…
Your wife being the fire. She’s still nice company – she’s good to look at and you can enjoy being around her. But doesn’t change that the flames are slowly eating away at what you are protecting and whatever slight benefit the flames might bring are outweighed by the danger and damage.

I’m guessing you would do what was needed to kill the fire. You wouldn’t hesitate to call 911 despite knowing the water from the hoses might damage the carpets, and the boots might scratch the hardwood floors. You wouldn’t ask them to only extinguish the flames in one room or settle for them leaving with some embers still glowing. Nor would you be contacting a contractor to start fixing before you really know the extent of the damage. You wouldn’t ask them to send one truck and maybe start by blowing on the flames.
Once the fire is out you might evaluate if the foundations are still solid enough for a rebuild. If not – you move on. Rebuild elsewhere on new foundations – with or without what might be salvageable from your former home.

It’s the same with your marriage. Frankly your WW actions strongly indicate the foundations are not going to support a new house. They still MIGHT – but you won’t know until either the home is completely burned to the ground or the flames are out before it reaches that stage.

IMHO the only way you will find out is by extinguishing the flames – in marital terms carry on with the divorce.
Its no more what you want that the raging fire. But it is what it is.

So IMHO your best – your very best bet – is to stop playing house. Stop thinking about joint vacations. Stop thinking about where she is, what shes doing and all that. I KNOW it’s easy to say and hard to implement. Just like looking at those flames can be captivating and that warmth feels nice…

I am not in any way or form advocating a difficult and contested divorce. They are hard enough when they are decent and amicable. I’m suggesting you simply tell your wife that her actions all show she’s out of the marriage and you two better make fantasy reality. Then YOU take control. YOU find your attorney, gather the info and all that. Maybe you can use one attorney and mediation, maybe you end up in some Kramer vs Kramer scenario. You wont know until you get out of the burning house.

Finally – Sit down with your girls and talk to them. Explain how the infidelity might be ending the marriage, but your love and the love of their mom is unconditional and they have no part in creating the present situation. Make it clear to them that as far as you go all paths will be open for them.

ChamomileTea posted 4/18/2021 15:23 PM

But...I still want her back. My heart just will not let go...it's so hard to let go.

Of course it's hard. Your attachment was genuine and your feelings aren't self-involved.

The more you focus in on your own life though, the easier it's going to be. You said your kids are on their first vacation without you. Fine. Plan two vacations, or three... without your STBX. Spend some time looking up new locations, shopping rates, and get something on the calendar. I don't remember what your living situation is, but do some things which move you along the path to freedom. If that's looking for new places, great. If it's getting with your attorney and/or financial planner to get things moving so you can make the split, get on it. And add one new skill to your life. Doesn't matter what it is, just so long as it's new. Cooking class, furniture building, musical instrument, cycling, whatever... just so long as when you're done with it, you can say you've added on to the things you can do. The more full your life is, the less room in it for dishonest people who waste your time.

When you're going through hell, you just keep on going. That's how you get to the other side, right?

Bigger posted 4/18/2021 16:02 PM

One more issue:
Just like you don’t WANT your home to burn then the reality is the flames are there.
You don’t WANT to divorce, but the other option is that you share your wife. It’s clear you aren’t accepting that.

Why doesn’t your wife pull the trigger? Why doesn’t she commit to D or to end the affair? Well… because she doesn’t have to. Both you and the AP seem to accept having her part-time. The moment she realizes that her choices are limited to being in a monogamous marriage or being divorced… Well… MAYBE – just MAYBE – she might choose the marriage. Or maybe not. What will be clear is that if she stays in infidelity or if she commits to divorce then eventually you two will be divorced.

Experience shows us that once a BS commits to a path – even reluctantly just like you might watch those hoses spray your carpets – they start putting distance from the problem. Think of your marriage like a rubber-band that connects you and your WW. Once you start moving away there is tension pulling you towards each other. If you stand your ground and even take one more step that band might snap, and when it does you will have gained enough distance to simply feel relief.

But… the tension just might even pull her towards you… I never recommend divorcing to reconcile. I don’t think that’s realistic. But I do recommend that the BS deals with the reality he/she is facing and the reality is that your wife wants to be with OM and you. Maybe if you deny her you she might chose you over the OM, but if she doesn’t then AT LEAST YOU won’t be in her equation.

DanielJK posted 4/18/2021 16:34 PM

Bigger

Just to be clear...I filed for divorce on 12/23.

First court date was 3/23...second one is scheduled for 5/7. Attorneys already negotiating divorce agreement.

Divorce is close.

Nonetheless I was hoping we would still be a couple.

[This message edited by DanielJK at 7:13 AM, April 19th (Monday)]

blahblahblahe posted 4/18/2021 16:48 PM

If you had a house fire caused by a faulty appliance and the repairman was unable to determine if said appliance was safe to have in the home.

1. Should you just hope it does not start another fire after all once, twice and/or thrice it should it out if its system.

2. Replace the appliance

That is the cold math on WW's, it is about the same for faulty appliances.

DanielJK posted 4/18/2021 17:00 PM

Blahblahblahe

I know. Since December I've had no intentions of stopping divorce. I thought maybe we could divorce and live together and see what happens.

I've been looking at houses and apartments fully intending to move apart...but

I have a hard time letting go.

I've been burned over and over and over and over and over again...and I still can't let go.

I expect to be physically apart for a while starting two days ago and through the end of May. If I can't find a house by then I may be forced to be back with her. I hope that physical distance will do me some good.

guvensiz posted 4/18/2021 17:03 PM

Daniel,

It would be a lie if I said what you told didn't surprise me. If I were with you, I would do my best to prevent you from doing these things.

Lately I thought you had coped well with your situation. You didn't write much in your own thread, and your suggestions to others showed that you were now out of the fog and cleared your mind. It seemed that only the divorce process remained to end and you were ready to start a new life.

I remember the previous week, before I posted some thoughts on your thread on the divorce forum, I had reread your story, wondering if something hopeful had happened at some point. But no, I couldn't see a single thing, all hell.
Your STBXWW continued to do exactly what she did steadily. You have to accept it now and act accordingly. Actually, you are aware of everything but I guess it is weak in will. You did things that wouldn't work, or even weaken your hand. Given your STBXWW's personality, R wouldn't be possible even if you did the right things. But you would suffer less.
I hope your attempt to detach yourself from her will continue with determination. Try to do things that you enjoy doing or have always dreamed but never had the opportunity to do.

I wouldn't normally suggest someone who isn't ready to date new people but I think you need to remember the existence of good, loyal, trustworthy women as well. You can push yourself a little bit about it, it doesn't necessarily have something to happen in the end. Maybe it will help you see the pointlessness of putting up with all this.

DanielJK posted 4/18/2021 18:43 PM

Guvensiz

I know. Problem is, over the last 3-4 weeks the STBXWW had me under her spell again. I thought she was done with AP.

We were doing a lot together, a lot. We seemed to be getting along. I was doing the pick me dance again and she was eating her cake I suppose.

Before I filed for divorce I bought a GPS. It was on her car since mid December. She had not gone to his house until 4/16 (two days ago).

If you are saying I have a weak will, you're right. That's why I admire folks here like Mr. Flibble, absolon, and spaceghost. I know what to do, I know the right thing but I still have a hard time. I talk a good game here, but I can't seem to implement my own advice in my own situation.

Something about the latest visit to AP has devastated me to original dday levels. I was doing better. Feeling good, eating/sleeping well...now not so much.

I have to be honest...I was alone until 26. My wife is the first and only woman I've ever had sex with. I've heard it said here that the men who did well with woman in their younger years do better at separating. I suppose that's true because I have never been good with women. I'm terrified. I think the fear of lack of sex scares me most. I'm a mumbling, stammering fool around beautiful women. I have no game whatsoever. I consider myself average looking, 6' 2' 200 lbs in above average shape, but deep down my self esteem believes that I am well below average. I don't drink, I don't like loud music, not sophisticated, shy as heck.

Then there is the finances. We're doing OK with two incomes...but that's just it...two incomes and we're doing "OK." Now I have to buy a house in an impossible real estate market. I really don't want to rent, but I will if I have to. Problem is, I have a dog.

I'm lucky now that I have a condo to escape to for the next 6 weeks. I have to do this to physically detach. I hope to find a more permanent place within that time.

I'm a mess at the moment. But I hear you on the dating...maybe end of summer.

Sitting alone in the house now. It sucks. Tried to stay busy in the yard today, just went grocery shopping. STBXWW and the kids will be back from vacation on the 24th...I will go back to the condo.