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perception vs. truth

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fareast posted 4/15/2021 12:31 PM

What was all this for?

Please don’t ruminate on this too deeply. It happened because two supremely entitled and selfish people decided they could get away with an illicit affair. Period. Purely selfish. They did it because they could. Nothing deeper or more profound. Not soulmates. It was just exciting and fun sneaking around at your expense and the OBS. That’s all.

steadychevy posted 4/15/2021 13:02 PM

You showed very admirable strength and clear headed thinking in the meeting with your not future father-in-law. I suspect he is a vindictive bastard and doesn't like to be disagreed with or challenged. Watch your back. His daughter is the same. His and her right thing is what he tells you to do. Again, watch your back.

guvensiz posted 4/15/2021 13:10 PM

Glad to hear that everything is happening as it should.

Edit :

I am in the process of drafting a once-and-for-all final letter to her, politely asking her to leave my life forever.

I wouldn't suggest you do that. Just let it go.


Btw, sorry for going off topic but

@HouseOfPlane do I really need to explain this?


I think she should go to the police and report that she was raped

I think that's the worst advice I've ever read here.

[This message edited by guvensiz at 1:17 PM, April 15th (Thursday)]

Robert22205https posted 4/15/2021 13:12 PM

Thank you for sharing the lunch conversation with her dad. IMO they both are not only selfish, entitled, deceitful, and lack empathy for others - but they are manipulative and delusional.

Since you have solid evidence from the PI, you are in a very strong position that they both (the dad too) stay out of your life (and not even whisper about you behind your back).

Under the circumstances, I suggest you do not personally have any further contact with her. Why? because any contact regardless of content (text, email, face to face) partially satisfies her emotional needs (think stalker level obsession).

Any contact (no matter how minimal in your mind) will encourage her. Do not even accept cards/letters or flowers on holidays or birthday gifts.

Instead have an attorney send the letter (be sure to include no monthly letters or other contact). It not only makes a statement but blocks her from getting anything positive/encouraging from the letter.


[This message edited by Robert22205https at 1:14 PM, April 15th (Thursday)]

WalkingHome posted 4/15/2021 13:27 PM

As your WF will undoubtedly contact you at some stage with a "What can I do"...I have a serious suggestion-


Tell her to write her Ex Husband a letter and detail how she cheated on him, with whom, how often, where, and for how long.


Tell her that she has to set the past straight with him, prior to even speaking with you.


It might not do much for you, but at least you get to do him a solid. He deserves it.


asc1226 posted 4/15/2021 13:56 PM

Tell her to write her Ex Husband a letter and detail how she cheated on him, with whom, how often, where, and for how long.

It would be as full of lies, blame shifting and self service as her letter to Absolon. Closure with a narcissist is like a winged unicorn that craps gold bars and gives solid financial advice.

The1stWife posted 4/15/2021 13:59 PM

Your mom rocks!!!!!!

I have taught my kids the same thing. Consequences. Deal with it.

So from your recent post you are expected to reconcile with the cheating daughter b/c that’s what she wants and she’s having a mental health issue over this.

Wow - that is some FIL you almost were tangled up with. I guess you see how your life would have been had you married into that family.

Why did this happen? I don’t know b/c you are a nice honorable person. But at least you are dealing in reality and see the XF for the person she really is.

She may be an adult but her emotional maturity is that of a child.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 1:59 PM, April 15th (Thursday)]

chepo1966 posted 4/15/2021 14:12 PM

Absolon,
Good, that you could share a coffee, with OBS, it shows from what you say, you help her a lot, to be able to cope with all this shit, and in some way it does good to you, the only difference, maybe, her She feels trapped, with AP, since she has no support to leave him, she knows that your WF and AP are two phonies, that they believe they are indespensable, and that they can cause harm to whoever they want, you can tell that you are a type goodness within you, and very correct, for all this, it will be easier for you to overcome this deception, a man with values, principles and dignity, that stands out a lot in you
And I'm glad you keep supporting OBS, YOU NEED IT-

Absolon posted 4/15/2021 14:28 PM

@Sceadugenga: Thank you for your kind words, but I don’t feel there has been anything legendary in my behaviour, post-D-day. What has been ‘legendary’ is the support, insight and advice offered by each ‘legend’ (!) here. All of you.

On a more self-critical note, I worry that part of my ability to move on so quickly, post-betrayal, is due to a lifelong challenge with trust issues. And while I haven’t allowed those to really permeate my various relationships ... oddly, here in this situation, they have served as a kryptonite against the siren-song of the WF’s b.s. In other words: her infidelity confirmed what my more negative, superego (if that is the correct term) voices tell me about what eventually happens when you trust the wrong person.

I haven’t mentioned to this community that I have always had trust issues; so I think that’s why you are getting this sense of doom and gloom from me that I will never escape betrayal.

@steadychevy: Agreed wholeheartedly: I need to watch my back. But, serious question, and not ironic or whatever: How do I go about properly ‘watching my back’ in a situation like this? Do you mean, just, to ascribe pretty much every word and action from WF + family as potentially dangerous to me? Or something else?

@Robert: Agreed. Though, what has been especially jarring for me with her father is that a) I had always respected him (or was it simply the idea of him) before all of this; and that b) his incredibly sinister behaviour is so incongruent to his public persona. If the public knew that this was his true face …

@1stwife: Absolutely: my mom rocks and so therefore must you if you are teaching your children the same thing. In fact your comment made me realize that I was sharing the second part of that. She would say two things, in those circumstances: 1) Actions have consequences and 2) Take responsibility for your actions.

@chepo: thanks for all of your posts throughout this thread. I have always smiled at them and my self-esteem has been raised by each; yours are sort of like Pablo Neruda love poems to me – even though we are both dudes, etc, and you don’t love me, haha, I still get a nice warm feeling at your attempts to remind me I am a decent man.

Freeme posted 4/15/2021 14:36 PM

What was all this for?

What are any hardships for? To make us stronger. To teach us things. To test our character. To make us appreciate what we have.

In all of your posts you have shown yourself to have integrity, empathy, and appreciation to other members. That’s the type of person you are and you deserve to find someone similar.
Was it fair that you spent the past five years with WF? No. Were you blind to her faults? Maybe...or maybe she was white knuckling it until she couldn’t hide her true self any more.

What was all this for? Well your WF and her Dad finally have to face some consequence. Maybe IC will help maybe not.
You can go down the rabbit hole of What was all this for or you can focus on … What could have happened. We can call it bad luck that you ran into her but…. How many people can say they lucked out because of Covid (vacation and marriage)? Catching that handholding … The PI catching those pictures… ... Five years isn't six years or seven or...Five years isn't a marriage, kids, owning a home together, half your assets, SS....

This relationship set you back five years? Maybe but you're still young. You're a great catch for any woman. You will find someone better as soon as your ready. It's ok to have some trust issues... that's what made you post in the first place.

Thank you for the update. I'm so glad you got the ring back. I was blown by some of the things her father said... but really proud of your replies.

Sorry -- I wanted to add something else....
While I normally believe NC is best in your case I believe you should reply to your ex’s letter. You can tell her that you are glad that she is seeking IC and you hope she is someday able to understand the pain she has caused the two men she was engaged to, her close friend the OBS and the children of the OBS. You can thank her for returning the ring but make it clear that the things she says caused her to cheat (your high moral standard and integrity, etc,) are ironically the things that make it impossible to forget her cheating, lies, low moral standards and her slander of your character.
You need to let her know that this is the last contact you plan to have with her and further correspondence will be sent back unopened. From what you have written I don’t think suddenly going NC will work. Keep it short but leave no question that it’s over forever.

Then block her on all social media and begin the healing process.

[This message edited by Freeme at 3:56 PM, April 15th (Thursday)]

steadychevy posted 4/15/2021 15:24 PM

Absolon, I meant that there could be attempts to tarnish your reputation. You WF, should that be XWF now, already tried that. Perhaps there will be doors closed to you that once were open. Perhaps your career seems to have stalled. I don't know what influence your XWF's male parent could have in the field you are in or your personal or private life. Do you sense a different attitude toward you?

You have solid evidence it seems for protection. The PI reports are substantial, I think.

If you have a chance to communicate with the OBS again perhaps you could suggest to her to contact a solicitor or lawyer or whatever they're called where you are to see what her rights are. Perhaps she isn't as stuck as she thinks. Generally, though, it seems the one (usually the woman) who gets primary child custody suffers more financially.

siracha posted 4/15/2021 15:47 PM

So ...Exactly the depraved family you knew them to be . You lost a ring but trust me thats well worth the price of being done with these psychopaths.
What was it all for ? Maybe so you could stay single . Think of all the great times you can have both single and also when you finally meet the love if your life . Imagine what this emotional gargoyle could have robbed you of. .
Great job on saving your own life , do not send her any more emails , the more goodbyes you say the more it sounds like you want her back .

[This message edited by siracha at 3:49 PM, April 15th (Thursday)]

ramius posted 4/15/2021 15:50 PM

Cooley2here posted 4/15/2021 16:06 PM

For the last several years I have noticed that psychologists, and others, are noticing an uptick in narcissism in this country. Just recently I read that there is a real concern about how this is going to impact society with so many people thinking it’s always for them and about them. Your fiancé fits so many descriptions of narcissism. True narcissistic personality disorder is scary. I don’t think she is that but she is so entitled that your needs are nothing to her.
The person I want to write about, and ask about, is the other betrayed spouse. Please tell her to come here and let us be some voices she can hear. Although your fiancé is a very troubled woman the other man sounds sick. An emotionally and mentally sick human being who has contaminated your life. Getting out of her life will get him out of your life but I hope in someway you can support his wife. She needs a place like this. Send her here.
Congratulations on being a grownup. As for trusting other people that’s part of being an adult. We have lived long enough to know that there are no saints. There are just lots of us with feet of clay.

Sceadugenga posted 4/15/2021 23:35 PM


For the last several years I have noticed that psychologists, and others, are noticing an uptick in narcissism in this country. Just recently I read that there is a real concern about how this is going to impact society with so many people thinking it’s always for them and about them. Your fiancé fits so many descriptions of narcissism. True narcissistic personality disorder is scary. I don’t think she is that but she is so entitled that your needs are nothing to her.

She certainly gives off a narcissistic vibe, and so does her father. Neither could be diagnosable as a pwNPD, but quite a number of their actions and behaviours seem to come straight from a narcissist's toolbox. True, genuine NPD is scary, but if a person meets, say, 70 or 80 per cent of the criteria for narcissism, doesn't it still make them unsafe as a partner and difficult to be around on the daily?
Absolon, I suggest you read up on narcissism, not only will it help you piece together the puzzle and put things into an even more solid perspective, but also make you more aware of the red flags to look for in potential partners. Anyone can fall prey to a narcissist, but people like you: empathetic, decent and caring are especially vulnerable. They're even often referred to as "narcissistic magnets".
Your ex-fiancee might not be a narcissist, but a mere garden-variety entitled, toxic asshole, but still, a better insight into narcissism and toxicity in relationships could spare you a lot of head- and heartache down the road.
Anyway, if you decide to go down that rabbit hole (and, believe you me, it's a deep and winding rabbit hole), PM me - I'll give you some pointers on where to start your research. I wouldn't like to break the SI policy against soliciting.

WontBeFooledAgai posted 4/16/2021 00:54 AM

So your xWF's dad said that she was all broken up....NOT because of all the pain she probably caused you, but instead because....this is the first time in her life she didn't get her way? Seriously?

Good riddance. That takes the cake for the most selfish unaware sentence I have read here in quite some time. The thing is, I am really thinking her dad thought telling you this thinking you'd be touched.

You are right to move on.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 12:56 AM, April 16th (Friday)]

bellatrixderange posted 4/16/2021 02:02 AM

I don’t post here very often, but I just want to jump in as I’ve just read this thread from beginning to end...

Absolon, you are clearly a magnificent person, and if you ever write a book please let me know because you are a wonderful writer.

I wanted to say, and I’m not sure if this will help or not, but one thing I learned from a painful marriage breakdown that almost killed me: the opposite of love is not hate, it is ‘nothing’. One day you will realise that you no longer love nor hate your ex, you nothing her. And that will be a sign that your healing is complete. That realisation of nothing will liberate you like nothing else before it.

While I wallowed in limbo for what in retrospect was a ridiculously long and unnecessarily painful amount of time, I believe you have set the wheels of your ‘path to nothing’ in motion with your swift and decisive action since your suspicions were confirmed. You have acted with dignity and respect, and what shines through most of all is your self-respect and self-love throughout.

I wish you well.

Jambomo posted 4/16/2021 03:29 AM

There seems to be evidence, from both the daughter and the father, of a belief that they can pressure you into getting back together.

Your Ex saying she’ll keep writing to you and doing X and Y, completely ignores your wishes in that you have said you don’t want to hear from her. Her father, deliberately trying to manipulate using his wealth and status as if to say “You are crazy to give all this up”, saying you’ll “do the right thing” which is simply that he thinks you’ll do what he wants, not the right thing for you or your life.

This itself adds another problem in that to go back now, will mean they believe you open to manipulation and leaves you more vulnerable to it being used a lot more in the future. It’s probably hindered rather than helped her cause.

jb3199 posted 4/16/2021 06:14 AM

So your xWF's dad said that she was all broken up....NOT because of all the pain she probably caused you, but instead because....this is the first time in her life she didn't get her way? Seriously?

Exactly. Not one shred of compassion from either of them. I really don't think that they have the capability.

Buster123 posted 4/16/2021 08:31 AM

So your xWF's dad said that she was all broken up....NOT because of all the pain she probably caused you, but instead because....this is the first time in her life she didn't get her way? Seriously?
Good riddance. That takes the cake for the most selfish unaware sentence I have read here in quite some time. The thing is, I am really thinking her dad thought telling you this thinking you'd be touched.

You are right to move on.

WBFA beat me to it ! Absolon, that's confirmation that your now xWF has always been an entitled brat with serious issues for her entire life, GOOD RIDDANCE !!!.
Regarding OBS, again nice of you to meet with her, it definitely shows "CLASS" contrary to what your xWF's father said, since you've already made up your mind and got the ring back, I think in this case it would be good to tell her (OBS) about this site, I think she could benefit a lot from its "collective wisdom".

You did a marvelous job by keeping your composure during the meeting with your also entitled xWF's father, but I also want to emphasize the need to watch your back, based on what you posted he seems like the vindictive type, in his eyes "doing the right thing" is for you to forgive his cheating entitled brat, you saw right through him, I know the main purpose of the meeting was to get the ring back, but it also probably changed your view of who could have become your FIL, keep your eyes open and don't hesitate to contact an attorney if need be.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 9:01 AM, April 16th (Friday)]

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