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Disassociation diagnosis

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ISurvivedSoFar posted 4/11/2021 09:17 AM

Perhaps I can clear some things up or at least speak of some specifics of my experience that may help. For quite some time I got wrapped up in his diagnosis which eventually became detrimental to me. You see the DID part of him and the WS part of him were intertwined - they couldn't be treated separately with regard to culpability. The WS part would pull their tricks, i.e., try to hide what happened, and the more I felt sorry for or excuse the bad behavior the more it was used for the WS to hide behind. I became so wrapped up in his issues while at the same time I was hurting so badly and so alone because my WS couldn't or wouldn't come straight and instead fell deeper into this WS/DID maze. The blame towards me for his bad behavior got deeper and worse. I think he explained it well in another post when he said he used me as his mirror and the more pain I was in the worse it was for him and the more he couldn't face what he had done. It was a vicious cycle until I stopped it.

I had to tell him to get well on his own. I had to tell him that I didn't care about the details of his diagnosis or issues - it was for him to solve. I had to put hard boundaries down and stop allowing his issues to impact me. It was such a hard switch to make particularly because this was my spouse and he was in a bad spot. It just so happens that the bad spot was killing me. Literally.

I will tell you how I knew, and perhaps how you can know, when the healing happens. I too wanted to know specific information that he kept claiming he couldn't remember. At one point after a lot of time went by I asked the same question about that detail again. I asked him so many times about this before to no avail. This time he just sat back and said, "I've tried so hard to remember this because I know it is important to you and your healing. I just cannot remember it." Then he proceeded to tell me all kinds of other details that I didn't know before and asked how much I wanted to know. He remembered so many things in so much detail and he was very clear with me that he remembered the details. This time he was very willing to tell me (unlike previous times) but still couldn't remember the detail I wanted. I could tell by his demeanor -- the lack of skating and stumbling around verbally and the willingness to openly talk about details without retreat -- that this was real. It was far into his own therapy to integrate and process his past traumas so the healing became obvious to me.

I think in your case it is similar. No matter her diagnosis it is still her and she is the only one who can heal herself. The intertwined nature of WS and anything else means you cannot see any of this myopically. It is the whole person in front of you and she is just as much WS as she is any other thing like disassociated. If she really is disassociated then she needs intense therapy for that right away. At one point when my WS told his IC of another diagnosis he thought he had the IC told him it doesn't matter. That he needed to fix the broken pieces that all stemmed from the same source and if he didn't no diagnosis would help him overcome his issues.

So, think about what you need and how you can move forward for you. Honestly that's the best boundary and message you can give your WS right now. She needs to get herself into a situation where she can face herself or she can never be a good partner to you. Yes she may have a huge issue but my experience tells me coddling only makes it worse.

YMMV of course.

WalkingHome posted 4/11/2021 11:37 AM

A person with true DID is extremely unsafe to be around. They risk becoming manic and doing any number of things, many worse than infidelity. They should have no access to a car, money, authority to make life decisions...and they need a court appointed guardian.


Tell her this and watch how fast that excuse of DID evaporates.


If she has DID, you must immediately divorce her for your own safety. Think what could happen if she disassociated in the middle of the night while you are sleeping and believes you aren’t her husband...but are in her bed...she could become violent, call police, etc.

sisoon posted 4/11/2021 13:03 PM

** Posting as a Member **

I don't get your post, WalkingHome. Less than 2.5 hours after reading a post describing how R with a person with DID is possible you post that NG25 MUST D.

I get that misunderstanding DIS may lead you to think NG25's life is in danger. If so, though, why is ISSF safe, if DID is so unpredictable?

And you state that NG25's W is probably using DID as an excuse without specific basis.

Your post doesn't make a lot of sense. Maybe editing WOULD make sense. If you do, I'll be happy to edit this.

** End Posting as a Member section **

*****

For quite some time I got wrapped up in his diagnosis which eventually became detrimental to me.
I think it's detrimental to all BSes, and in the same way as it was detrimental to you.

I had to tell him to get well on his own. I had to tell him that I didn't care about the details of his diagnosis or issues - it was for him to solve. I had to put hard boundaries down and stop allowing his issues to impact me. It was such a hard switch to make particularly because this was my spouse and he was in a bad spot.
There are very few things that one must do.

IMO, a BS's healing does require taking the step you describe.

Those hard boundaries enable the BS to heal.

Strangely, the boundaries also tell the WS they are on their own, and they also show the WS that they have the power they need to do their own healing. JMO, of course.

I will tell you how I knew, and perhaps how you can know, when the healing happens.... At one point after a lot of time went by I asked the same question about that detail again. I asked him so many times about this before to no avail. This time he just sat back and said, "I've tried so hard to remember this because I know it is important to you and your healing. I just cannot remember it." Then he proceeded to tell me all kinds of other details ... and asked how much I wanted to know.
I agree - that pretty much said, 'I'm ready to come clean,' even though he would not be able to give you some details.

So, think about what you need and how you can move forward for you. Honestly that's the best boundary and message you can give your WS right now. She needs to get herself into a situation where she can face herself or she can never be a good partner to you. Yes she may have a huge issue but my experience tells me coddling only makes it worse.

YMMV of course.

well, here we disagree. I think your counsel in this paragraph is right on for everyone who wants to heal. I think there is no 'mileage' variation - the best way to heal is to set (reasonable) boundaries and hold to them.

I doubt that coddling works for anyone.

I do not want to think about the pain that goes into becoming DID. I have no words that can bring comfort to a victim of abuse other than 'I'm sorry'.

I do have some understanding of being a BS with a partner who experienced abuse, and I'm so sorry you have to live with that ISSF. I'm glad that you're finding your way to healing and I'm glad DaddyDom is healing.

I can't help saying that there damn well should be a better way, though.

[This message edited by sisoon at 1:15 PM, April 11th (Sunday)]

ISurvivedSoFar posted 4/11/2021 17:05 PM

I'm not sure I understand each of these assertions but let me take them one at a time.

If so, though, why is ISSF safe, if DID is so unpredictable?
The thing is I WASN'T. I just didn't know it until he reached the point of being diabolical. He did reach a point where reality was not there and it was the first time I became really frightened and instead of fighting him I became immersed in psychologically managing the situation. I do not recommend it and I do recommend taking disassociation very seriously. It is not for armchair quarterbacks or non-professionals to diagnose. I will say that he presented so well that even professionals did not notice it at first. However when we were in counseling and the subject touched his shame it became more obvious in those sessions that he was not integrated and needed more work. Our MC would stop therapy and get in touch with his IC and not resume until he could handle it.

I want to be clear however that for the most part he was not violent and not angry. However, losing touch with reality did happen multiple times and it deepened right before he finally integrated, and the integration is something he wanted very much.

For quite some time I got wrapped up in his diagnosis which eventually became detrimental to me.
I think it's detrimental to all BSes, and in the same way as it was detrimental to you.
Yes of course but in my post I stipulated that it was my experience relative to DID. It isn't meant to imply that it couldn't apply elsewhere or to others.
Strangely, the boundaries also tell the WS they are on their own, and they also show the WS that they have the power they need to do their own healing. JMO, of course.
Absolutely!
I do have some understanding of being a BS with a partner who experienced abuse, and I'm so sorry you have to live with that ISSF. I'm glad that you're finding your way to healing and I'm glad DaddyDom is healing.
Thank you sisoon. I responded to this thread because DID has a special kind of twist on all of this where as you note so much is in common but so much is to be considered.

My hope is that others who think this may be an issue understand it is not an excuse but it is something to be taken very seriously.

HellFire posted 4/11/2021 17:45 PM

My wife literally changed overnight from the straight laced faith filled, rule following, standard setting, devoted wife and mother to a woman who was willing to share herself emotionally and sexually with a relative stranger. If that’s not DD, what is it?

A cheater. Seriously, the same thing gets said all the time in the jfo forum. BS saying their WS was a fine,upstanding, honest,good person, often very devout,and the very last person anyone who knows them would ever think would cheat..until they cheated.

I think its very important to remember that her IC did not diagnose her. That his IC is saying it sounds like she might have this disorder, based on things OP has told him. And, I've read over, and over, on this site that it is very unprofessional for an IC to diagnose a person that isn't their own patient.

OP, if you believe this about your wife then your IC can't diagnose her. Neither can you. She needs to speak to her own IC about it.

[This message edited by HellFire at 5:47 PM, April 11th (Sunday)]

WalkingHome posted 4/12/2021 13:41 PM

@ sisoon-


A person with a true psych disorder that can cause them to fully disassociate without warning, is 100% unsafe to be around.


This is blatantly obvious. If this happens while driving a car?...or while you are in the house with them and asleep? Do they see you as an intruder? Do they dial 911?

Anyone having that level of psychological issue needs direct and immediate help at an institutional level.


Now, I think she is likely not being honest about it...but everything I said above is true for a real case of DID.


There are any number of scenarios where someone could disassociate and it end badly for those around them. Don't be there...

DevastatedDee posted 4/13/2021 08:32 AM

I kinda have to agree with the danger aspect. Though it has only happened to me once in my life, I was weirdly grateful that the worst that I did was go out and cheat back. I could have killed him, killed myself. I don't think I would have cared if that stranger had killed me instead of having sex with me. The very idea that I was driving in that state is upsetting. Everything about it is upsetting. If this happened to me on any kind of repeating basis and wasn't just a one time thing, I'd not be fit to have my children and would voluntarily have given them up for their sakes. I'd have checked myself in somewhere. I cannot comprehend this going on for years and functioning at all. She needs an official diagnosis if it's DID and not just the usual cheater stuff.

nekonamida posted 4/13/2021 09:08 AM

This thread makes me think of people who say they're a little OCD because they're neat freaks when actually that has very little to do with what having OCD is really like and isn't even a uniform symptom of it. What has been described by NiceGuy is much closer to cognitive dissonance which is very common when dealing with infidelity. It's her cognitive dissonance in holding two very conflicting ideas about OM and her own A despite evidence to the contrary as well as NiceGuy's cognitive dissonance in attempting to hold two very conflicting perceptions of his WW - the good wife and the cheater.

DID and dissociative episodes in general are far more serious and require immediate medical attention. I can't help but think it was unethical and misleading for NiceGuy's IC to attempt to diagnose someone he's never met with such a serious mental health condition and without any follow up for providing help to his WW. Isn't he worried about her and NiceGuy's safety? Isn't he worried about the after effects of her dissociating for so long? Isn't he worried that it might happen again? It would be like saying she may have cancer and not requiring any scans, tests, or treatment. This is exactly the kind of thing that can and does get reported to the licensing board and leads to disciplinary action.

jb3199 posted 4/13/2021 09:14 AM

I think that there is just waaaaaay to much speculation on Mrs. NG's diagnosis......especially a condition as serious as this.

NiceGuy, I know that you desperately want to put a reason/explanation to her cheating. I just want you to be careful in trying to find that explanation. Go with the information that you have as factual, and work from there. If you believe that this diagnosis is a possibility, then get the properly suited professionals to work with your wife to confirm/rebuke this.

Opinion-wise, I'm more with Hellfire, simply based on what information that you have given us. Especially as it pertains to the 25 year gap before reaching out again. But, like the others here, my opinion is just that....an opinion.

Niceguy25 posted 4/16/2021 07:32 AM

I would like to clarify something...my IC never diagnosed my wife as DID. He offered that to me as a possibility for a behavior that otherwise made no logical sense to me. If my WW’s affair had been a one night stand with a total stranger I could have better understood that than a 3 1/2 year affair with a married man who was for the most part initially to stranger except for his previous relationship with her 7 years older also married sister. So in that sense I’m sure she felt him safe when she began the physical affair by kissing passionately the first night she met him while drinking, dining and DANCING. The sex happened on 5 known occasions when they both traveled to a destination in the first year. After his final romp one year after it started, he began pulling away and went NC 6 months later. It was she who then continued to pursue him for another two years. He rejected her repeatedly until she finally gave up and burned him with his wife. THIS is the woman I can’t understand or recognize. She emerged in the 13th year of our marriage, disappeared in years 17 to 39, and then reappeared just long enough to get caught trying to rekindle his interest on his 75th birthday. Yes, he’s still alive and cheating on his wife. The last 6 years have been about discovery and trying to make sense out of why after 25 years of reconciliation, he is still any part of her mind, life, concern, care or desire. I am a “Good Guy” by most anyone’s standards but apparently not quite “good enough”....not my opinion, but clearly hers. The question that remains unanswered is WHY, which of course was initially “my fault”, but that theory has been exhausted and dropped. As many have said here, I will probably never really know. Right now, I could not ask for a more loving spouse, but who wakes up next to me each morning is a mystery at this point. I do not fear any harm physically with her.

[This message edited by Niceguy25 at 7:03 AM, April 17th (Saturday)]

BluerThanBlue posted 4/19/2021 11:20 AM

I disagree with you that her behavior is illogical and I think it's both absurd and grossly unprofessional that your IC offered DID as a likely explanation. It's ridiculous that a highly paid mental health professional can be so obtuse about the very basics of human behavior.

If you break down all of her actions-- from the start of the affair, to where you are now-- it makes perfect sense.

Most affairs happen between co-workers, friends, or acquaintances, not complete strangers. While it's more common and acceptable for women nowadays to go home randomly with men they meet at bars, that certainly wasn't the case for women in your generation, particularly women of faith as opposed to the secular feminist types.

It's perfectly understandable that she would step out with a man she knows and for whom attraction has been long simmering then a passing stranger. Rather than turning her off, the details of his affair with her sister were probably titillating. She also could've been acting out on jealousy or resentment toward her sister.

Once the affair was underway, she was completely besotted with him. This makes perfect sense for a woman who considers herself godly and morally upright... being in love with him helped her resolve her cognitive dissonance. When she outed his marriage, it was probably in the hope that he would come running to her and they could finally be together in the light. You probably would've gotten the "I love you but I'm not in love with you speech" if he had been receptive.

But since that didn't happen, she shrugged her shoulders and made the best of her marriage with you, even though she was secretly pining for him. His 75th birthday was just a pretext for getting in touch again. She hoped by that point that the the dust would've settled from the bomb she dropped on his marriage.

As for why she's so loving now... it's simple. Mr. Wonderful is not an option, so she's not going to throw away the comfortable life she has with you to be a lonely old woman. She likes you as a person and appreciates what you do as a husband and father, so she wants you to be content and maintain the status quo.

As long as you keep your mouth shut about her affair, she's the perfect wife. But any time you press her for the full truth, challenge her to be accountable for her actions, or demand she be proactive about helping you heal, her response is defensiveness, lies, and manipulation.

This is all perfectly predictable and consistent behavior for a selfish, entitled woman who has never faced any tangible consequences for her actions and is quite confident that she never will.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 12:49 PM, April 19th (Monday)]

Niceguy25 posted 4/20/2021 13:36 PM

Blue, your right, I got the “I love you but This m no longer in love with you” talk 6 months into their affair., along way th the “aim in so much pain in our relationship, that I’ve emotionally divorced myself from you. Less than 6 months later he dumped her and moved on, in true narcissistic manner refusing any contact with her. He sent her a touching, heart rendering farewell “so you can save your marriage” card and then went no contact, refusing her letters, calls and emails. It took two more years before she finally burned him with his wife in a letter she had her IC at the time mail anonymously. Th n she switched back to the wife I knew for the next 25 years. Your premise makes sense in allot of ways. Thanks.

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