The1stWife posted 4/23/2021 13:32 PM

Part of me wants to say, "have you magically become an honest, loving, kind and romantic man who wants me as a partner?"

You already know the answer to this question.

The fact that you STILL have this thought shows you are still holding onto hope about Mr Not So Wonderful. Some part of you is still thinking “there’s a chance” he will change and come and sweep me off my feet and pledge his undying love.

This is NOT Sex and the City and he’s Mr Big. No way no how. Stop living in Fantasyland.

BluerThanBlue posted 4/23/2021 14:42 PM

Fanny, you can't deny that you didn't have any expectations or strings attached to the money or gifts that you gave your ex. When you found out he was cheating on you, you didn't repossess his boat because you knew that if you did he would probably never speak to you again. Go back and read all your posts and see how often the phrase (or some variation of) "After I everything I did for him, THIS is how he acts."

Also, keeping tabs on an ex after the relationship ends, either personally or through friends, is controlling, unhealthy behavior. He's not your boyfriend anymore, so his online dating activities are none of your business or your friends' business for that matter.

As for the new guy, I'm not taking issue with dumping him for being a flake... I'm saying that you telling him off over text because he didn't call you first thing in the morning "as promised" was controlling and out of line. For all you know, he could've been in a car crash! Or hell, maybe life happened and he just forgot... he's a guy you went out with on a couple of dates with, not your husband who failed to return home after a night out.

So why the hysteria? Why do you need to drop a bomb on someone's head when they don't act the way you want them to? Why do you constantly need to have the last word? Why can't you walk away from a situation that doesn't suit you with your dignity intact?

And I assure you, I don't need to be lectured about the value of a promise. I was married to someone who vowed before God to love, honor, and cherish me and then proceeded to have an affair.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 2:48 PM, April 23rd (Friday)]

Charity411 posted 4/23/2021 15:45 PM

Fanny, I've told you I follow your story because I was almost literally you, minus your income. Although I too spent thousands on him. It is uncanny, down to similar upbringings. My brother who is 8 years older than me, was sexually abusing my identical twin sister, and trying to do the same to me as a kid. I continually fought him off. And yet to this day my mother thinks he walks on water and couldn't care less about my sister and I. My dad, who was our only protector, dropped dead when my sister and I were 19.

I got married twice, because I wanted to be part of a family. The first one turned out to be gay. The second one left me for his best friend of 22 years' wife. In hind sight I should have seen both things coming. Instead of learning from that, I began a long term relationship with someone almost identical to Mr. Wonderful. It was even more destructive than the marriages. So I know. I get it.

I have been reluctant to feed the beast in your head about Mr. Wonderful. Until you completely step out of the way, your instincts are correct and you are unknowingly in a game of chicken. At some point he is going to reappear. But it will be because he hasn't found someone who will take care of him, or because there is something he needs from you materially. It will not be love, or commitment at all, no matter what he says. It will be a game to suck you back in. I went through years of it. It required orders of protection and stalking charges when he wouldn't stop.

Your story helped me figure something out. Four years ago, after about 4 years of no contact at all, he reappeared. He left a gift on my doorstep, literally. I was afraid to open it alone so I took it go a friend's house and he opened it. It was a painting and a very strange letter. The letter was very personal, in a strange way. It was meant to convey a deep connection between us, which does not exist. It never existed on his part. I being like you imagined it did long ago, before I woke up and left. Why now. I couldn't figure out what he needed from me.

Then all your stuff about credit ratings and being able to qualify for financing and stuff helped me see it. It wasn't about money in my case. He was running for US Congress, and he was afraid someone would find the record of the orders of protection and the stalking charges I had filed about him. He wanted me to discredit myself by accepting a personal gift from him years after the fact. Our Police Department brought it back to his house and told him never to contact me again and filed a police report.

Get him out of your head. It is never about love with people like them. You are a means to an end. The longer you have absolutely no contact with him, the more clearly you will see it. Trust me, if you listen to what seems to be a good counselor you will get to a point where the thought of him sickens you. It will be so obvious you were being used it will floor you.

But don't stoop to his level and use him or anyone else back. Find you. Rely on you. You seem to be making progress on that, and good job. It's hard. But it's worth it. I've never been more free or happier.

The1stWife posted 4/23/2021 19:53 PM

Yet again Charity 411 hit the nail on the head.

FannyandCat posted 4/26/2021 06:50 AM

BluerThanBlue - you gave me some food for thought. I really thought about what you said concerning "dropping the bomb" when someone doesn't act the way I want them to. Pride maybe? A feeling of "I'll show you"? I mean really, WHY do I need to have the last word? I could just as easily walked away saying absolutely nothing and it would have had the same effect. But thinking back this has always been my MO. I have ALWAYS had to have the final say - the final tell off - the rip someone to shreds/eat them for breakfast verbal take down. And to be honest, when I do it I feel good about it - it feels like "SO THERE - take that!" but really what purpose does it serve other than to permanently burn a bridge and leave a verbal detonation zone in its wake? I've literally been thinking about this all weekend. Went to dinner with two of my best friends on Friday and brought it up. One friend is was because of pride - one of the seven deadly sins lol - but it really made me think of how many times I've done it - which is countless.

That's something that needs to change - to have some self-control and not feel the need to have the final word. That's a sign of...I don't know...maturity? And to think of all the times I held my tongue with Mr. Wonderful and the few times I let him have it. At the end of the day silence wields the most power. This is a powerful lesson...and thank you for bringing it up. I really didn't think about it until I read your response.

And Charity411 - I have to ask...after you returned the gift did he try to contact you again? And morbid curiosity - did he actually win a congressional seat? At dinner Friday night the other friend told me a story about how her ex tried to come back - telling her he was happiest when he was with her but taking no accountability for all the way he hurt her - he cheated, spent a ton of her money and controlled her every move. When she finally got the courage to leave him his life turned to shit and she realized he wanted her back not because he loved her but because he needed someone to take care of him. She was his security blanket. She told me Mr. Wonderful will do the same thing - that I'm his security blanket. She knew her ex was trying to suck her back in and if she came back things would go back to the way they were before in short order. She said it took her years after the divorce to get over what he did to her but she looked me in the eyes and said she will NEVER go back to that again. That she would rather live alone than with someone that made her so miserable.

And that's another thing - BOTH of them told me how miserable I was all the time with Mr. Wonderful - always wondering where I stood, always wanting more but never getting it, beaming with pride from the crumbs he would pass my way to keep me hooked only to come crashing down again when I'd catch him in a lie or stand me up or do anything that made me question his desire to truly be with me. I've relied on myself for most of my life so that's something I can do but I have to get it out of my head that my life can't be whole without a man in it. And that when Mr. Wonderful comes back his motives aren't pure and honest - I am a means to an end. Be it sex, money, security or whatever it doesn't have anything to do with love.

I'm now over two weeks of no contact. Today is day 16. I had a weird dream about him last night that I can't remember much of but I do remember yelling at him "NO MORE SECRETS!"...looking forward to when he's no longer in my dreams.

[This message edited by FannyandCat at 6:57 AM, April 26th (Monday)]

Booyah posted 4/26/2021 07:36 AM

Fanny first off congrats on the continued NC.

As for control and having the last word.

It's pretty simple Fanny. Look at your life and all the horrible things that others did to you and where your parents (as your protectors) didn't just drop the ball here they FAILED MISERABLY!!

So it's a helpless feeling not being in control of things around us. The more helpless we feel the more we'll find little ways of getting some of that control back.

Giving things to people. You trying to control the dynamics of the relationship but when we're giving with strings attached (and people don't respond by doing and saying what we think they should and demand) it frustrates us even more and adds to the helplessness of no control and we snap at people and kick them out of our life or find other ways to try to control them.

Getting the last word in is also a way of trying to control the situation. You can see how crazy it is because getting the last word doesn't mean jack S... but it's done subconsciously and the first step is just recognizing that you're doing it and why.

Even though this guy never appreciated anything you did for him in your mind you were controlling the narrative that Fanny is a good person (and lovable) because look at all the nice things she does for him (and what you desperately wanted your parents to do for you).

Obviously it wasn't working and thus it made you angry and frustrated and bitter and more helpless and added to your pain of trusting people that were supposed to love you and have your back.....to protect you and make you feel loved unconditionally and hopefully you'd see that Fanny is lovable as is and thus no need to give anything to get their love.

Can you see how deep this goes?
This is how important it is to get into therapy so you can figure all of this out and until you do you're going to continue to live the same way.

It takes a TON of work and thus why we're saying to put men and relationships on hold for a long time.

It's like someone in therapy for cocaine abuse but all during therapy they continue to do cocaine.

Anyway something to think about.

Hope you have a good week.

The1stWife posted 4/26/2021 08:04 AM

I learned my lesson about taking someone back at 20. He made promises about not drinking in bars until 4 am 5x a week and quitting the cigarette addiction. Two huge issues (forget the temper and petty jealousy).

Didn’t last. I realized people can have good intentions snd fail OR they will tell you anything you want to hear to get you to reconcile. I believed the empty promises path and it still took months to end it.

Lesson learned. Very rarely do people get a second chance. And I can tell you EVERY time I have given people a second or third or tenth chance I regretted it. Including the head minister of our church (which I am leaving).

I gave my H a second chance after his first affair. He had a second affair. However there are no more chances and he has changed and regrets all of it. But it took me a very long time to stop thinking I was D him. However with kids and life etc. I re-evaluated things and staying married but I can tell you if we did not have children we would be D.

I hope you can see that very few people deserve a second or third chance. And I applaud your ability to listen to your friends who had the courage to tell you that you were NOT happy with your relationship and Mr Wonderful. It’s a great starting point.

Charity411 posted 4/26/2021 09:25 AM

To answer your question Fanny, he did not win. That was the 2018 election in which his primary opponent dropped out unexpectedly, so he went on to the general election and lost. He ran again in 2020 and lost in the primary. He did not try to give me anything or reach out prior to that second attempt at election, because he knew it wouldn't work.

He came from a large and very political family, notorious in my state. He would attach himself to the most powerful family member at the time in an effort to try to get ahead financially with very little work on his part. Before I left he was closest to his cousin, who ended up going to prison for corruption as the chief of staff to the governor. The governor also went to prison.

When I left I moved 130 miles away and to my shock at the time, he followed me and bought a two unit house a half a mile from mine. He did everything possible to try and suck me back in.

I believe the reason he followed me was two fold. I was very much his security blanket financially. He had just lost his house in the old community to foreclosure. He thought he could just come live with me. The only way to accomplish it was to remain in proximity to me because he was sure he could woo me back in. I laughed when Mr. Wonderful told you he had to sleep in his car, because that was exactly what my Mr. Wonderful was trying to do.

The other thing was that I was hired by the community I moved to as first their Economic Development Director and then their City Finance Director, where I remain. He thought he could use his connection to me to help him financially and to give him credibility, as the only thing he ever maintained professionally was a real estate brokers license. He has not bought or sold a property in well over 25 years.

During this he actually had someone make an appointment with me at a wine bar to talk about a project they wanted to bring to our community. He showed up with that guy. That guy left and I was stuck, not knowing what to do with someone I desperately wanted to get away from. He kept pitching the development of an historic and scenic property that was never going to get a zoning change. I had to sit there for close to two hours while he tried to strong arm me into going to bat for it as part of my position. When I wouldn't he stood up and threw my wine glass at a brick wall spraying glass all over me and the bar, when moments before he was telling me he was sure I could accomplish this for him because of my beauty and brilliance. It told me every decision I had made about no contact was absolutely correct.

The attempt to win me back was relentless. But like your friend, I didn't believe a word of it, which I could hold firm to by making sure I had zero contact with him. To have any contact, even saying hi in the grocery store, restarted months of relentless pursuit. Professions of undying love, poems written about me to Letters to the Editor, flowers sent to me at work, which I would promptly reject, break-ins at my house, calls from his relatives to my friends and relatives. You name it. He even bought me an engagement ring. There was just never an official proposal and a date. Thank God. I dodged a bullet.

None of it was love, or change. I was right to not believe it. More than 20 years after I moved, he remains living alone, unemployed and trying to make a living by attempting things he can't accomplish and then suing whoever it was he couldn't accomplish it for or was using. And when he loses the suit he sues the attorney and never pays them.

Like your friend I was miserable when I was with him, always kept off balance, always waiting and always trying to earn something he was completely incapable of giving. But my trying to earn it was greatly to his benefit, so he used it. And I fell for it. I have to own that, because if I don't I am destined to repeat it. When I was in it, I couldn't see it.

I have been hard on you. I know I have. I think it's because I know you aren't sucked in by this guy because you are stupid. It's because he could see your desperation to be wanted by a family a mile away and he targeted you, just like he probably targets people he sees as suckers around him. He knows just how to play you. With your childhood and family issues, you are vulnerable to it.

And yes, like that friend I will never go back there again. I look at that part of my life with utter disgust at myself. And even worse disgust at him. It is extremely liberating. I want that for you. If you can accomplish so much, with a family that abandoned you and a millstone like this jerk around your neck, just think about what you can do without him. It will be different from what you have been trying to accomplish, but it will clearly be better.

FannyandCat posted 4/26/2021 11:18 AM

Booyah - Holy shit that made sense. I always joke that I'm a hyper type A, neurotic control freak but that's only a partial joke. I AM a hyper type A control freak! And when I feel like I can't control the situation I pull out all the stops - be it with a thorough tongue lashing and kicking their ass out of my life permanently or pouring out heaps of love, kindness and generosity thinking if they see that they'll realize how good it is with me in their life. None of it works. NONE. If anything it makes matters worse because no matter how badly I'm treated he knew I would do anything to be looked at as someone worth love, kindness and attention. And he used that to his advantage - for years. If he truly loved me and wanted a future I wouldn't have had to do anything except be me. Hell, the last time we spoke his last words to me were, "I love you too" with a hug and a kiss. And after pouring my heart out to him all he could say was he would "broach the subject" once his legal woes were behind him. Like he expects me to wait patiently for him, pining for his love until then. NO THANK YOU.

I gave him WAY too many chances and regretted it each time but yet still got sucked back in because I foolishly thought THIS time would be different. THIS time he would come through and be the man he knew I wanted. THIS time the REAL Mr. Wonderful would finally show his face when in actuality he's been showing me who he really is all this time I just didn't want to see it. And when he comes back again I know I am well armed with plenty of ammo to shoot it down because The1stWife is right - very rarely do people deserve a second chance let alone a 4th or 5th chance. If I ever take him back again it's more or less telling him that what he's done to me was ok and it was anything BUT ok.

And Charity411 - what a story. The reason Mr. Wonderful slept in his car (or so he said - who really knows if it's the truth) was because he's given his house keys to his aunt and uncle and had no way of getting back in the house after they locked up for the night. He didn't want to wake them up so he slept outside. The whole story sounds like a pack of lies - I mean who can't go to Home Depot and make a new key for like two bucks?! It was just another lie to leave my house - one of many, many lies he told me as a means of avoidance. It was to get out of spending more time with me. And the feeling of being off balance, of always waiting and trying to earn something he isn't capable of giving - all for his benefit - is something that's hard to admit to myself because it paints me such a fool I cringe that I went to the lengths I did for someone who isn't worth it. He knows my history and what I want and he played me like a bad violin. And I LET HIM. The only cold comfort I see coming from this is he will end up a lot like your ex - alone and always attempting to accomplish something without putting the work in. He may keep his job or some of other type of gainful employment but he will continue to use people (exploit them) for his own personal gain.

In my deluded brain I kept thinking to myself that we shouldn't have tried to make a relationship work right after he finalized his divorce - to give him time to be single, play the field and not be tied down with a woman. But really, that doesn't matter because regardless of how many years his divorce is in the rearview window his attitude will never change and his treatment of me will never change - he is who he is and that's someone I can do without...no amount of chances I give him will magically change his core being and that's definitely something I'm going to work through in therapy.

FannyandCat posted 4/27/2021 08:07 AM

I guess this is what "the rollercoaster" means...

I won't contact him - I won't reach out and I won't unblock him but for whatever reason I can't get him out of my mind this morning. WHY?!?!

Day 17...I was doing so well yesterday and today he's all I can think about.

This makes no sense.

I'm probably the furthest thing from his mind...

Catwoman posted 4/27/2021 08:28 AM

It's totally normal to rollercoaster in situations like this. Relationships are not 100% bad or 100% good--they're a mixture. So of course it is normal to think of the good stuff.

When you do, it's helpful to think of WHY the relationship is NEVER going to be a good one for YOU. He's in legal trouble (big red flag). He doesn't treat you well. He is a leech.

He's never going to be different, because different involves change he is not motivated to make. Change is hard, and he doesn't do hard.

I'm probably the furthest thing from his mind...

Yep. Now, evict him from living rent-free in your head. It's a journey, not a destination.

Cat

Charity411 posted 4/27/2021 09:42 AM

Some of it is habit. You have to make a conscious effort to replace those thoughts with something else. As soon as he comes to mind, think of something else you enjoy and focus on it. Do it enough and it will become automatic.

For some reason, when ever I would get tired or feel the way you do right now, his phone number would pop into my head. I'd repeat my sister's phone number in my head 10 times and eventually, that's the number that would pop into my head when I was tired instead.

Cooley2here posted 4/27/2021 14:57 PM

It’s so normal to think about people that you have been involved with. 1000 years ago I have a boyfriend when I was a freshman and sophomore in college. He was the funniest person I have ever been around and was so much fun. The problem was we were like oil and water. We just did not mix. Our relationship was just so much fun and then so toxic and then so much fun and then toxic that my commonsense finally said to get out. A few months later I met my husband and he was the fit that I needed. It does not stop me from wondering what happened to that old boyfriend. We have memories for a reason. They help us formulate a mature personality. As we age we learn more and more and our memories help us. There’s nothing wrong about thinking about him because it will help you never get into another toxic relationship like that one.

FannyandCat posted 4/29/2021 07:35 AM

Day 19 of no contact and...

I received an email this morning from the boat insurance company stating his visa will be billed over 600 bucks to renew the policy a month from today. Well, the boat's been sold so the policy is no longer needed.

I logged into the insurance company site and it looks like my email is tied to the policy - and I created the username and password to get in however it's his credit card on the account. Do I inform him of this or just let the company charge his card?

On one hand I REALLY don't want to break no contact but on the other hand if it were me I'd want to know. But then again when we got the policy last year he put his card on it so really isn't it up to him when the boat was sold to cancel the policy? I'm sure he doesn't remember doing it and in fact probably thinks it's my card on the policy. I triple checked to make sure it was his card and not mine.

Hell, I don't even know if he received an email about it since it's my email that's the username.

Catwoman posted 4/29/2021 07:49 AM

Was the boat in both your names, or just his?

This is a sticky one. One thing you could do without really breaking NC is print out the email and snail-mail it to him. This way, you maintain the block on the email (he is blocked on your email, correct) and you don't invite any additional contact.

Or you could just let him figure it out. That's kind of where I would be. He's a grown-ass man. He can notice the charge on his card and spend a morning untangling it all.

I'm in favor of the latter.

Cat

The1stWife posted 4/29/2021 07:52 AM

Doing the right thing and letting him know is a kindness he doesn’t deserve.

But I would print a copy and mail him the info. This way you have been the better person by letting him know and it’s not your issue. It’s his.

And you have not broken your record of no contact by mailing him a copy of something. If he contacts you after receiving it you know what to do.

BluerThanBlue posted 4/29/2021 08:15 AM

This bill just sounds like you’re trying to rationalize an excuse that sounds reasonable as a pretext to be in contact with him again.

It was his boat, his insurance, his responsibility to keep track of his policy and bills. If it’s an autopay deduction from his credit card, he can dispute it without it costing him anything.

Change the email address and login information; if necessary contact the company and let them know you’re no longer the contact for his account.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 8:18 AM, April 29th (Thursday)]

FannyandCat posted 4/29/2021 08:30 AM

Cat - the boat was only in my name but we sold it three months ago and the title/registration has been transferred to the new owner.

The policy renews on 5/29. I have some time to think about it. But Cat I'm leaning toward the "grown ass man" route - let him see the charge and untangle it. If the tables were turned I'm almost positive he wouldn't have informed me.

Booyah posted 4/29/2021 09:09 AM

Yep "he's a grown ass man".

If you send him a copy of the email to give him a heads up than he possibly starts trying to reach out to you to thank you (even if you have him blocked). He starts stopping by etc.

His credit card will be billed.
At some point he'll see it.
Let him do the work to get it sorted out.

He's not a part of your life anymore and thus you don't have to clean up his messes anymore.

Lalagirl posted 4/30/2021 04:38 AM

Since you are able to log into the account, do you have full access? Since the boat was in your name and sold, you could cancel the policy online and provide a copy of the bill of sale if the insurance company requests it.