Newest Member: Loyalandbetrayed

Just Found Out :
After 43 years....

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Bigger ( Guide #8354) posted at 12:51 AM on Wednesday, January 6th, 2021

Dan – I had a long post with all sorts of calculations laid out but decided to keep this relatively simple:

MAYBE you can’t guarantee a legal way to limit her right to your pension to anything less than 50%

MAYBE it’s best to accept that, but to seek financial compensation in something else.

Like maybe she agrees to forfeit her share of the house completely but gets 50% of the pension. I for one think that for you living there with her as a landlord or co-owner would be terrible. I would rather sell and get her out of my life to be honest.

Maybe state in the divorce that your son will be the sole inheritor of your estate (just make sure it’s the estate and not the house. Maybe you can loosen up funds by selling and getting a more convenient home).

I want to point one thing out:

I went back to my notes and books about business valuations from my financial degree for this…

This is a very rough calculation but a rule-of-thumb for travel agencies is that they are valued at 5 x their net-profit before tax and depreciation. If they did a gross of 7 million and the net is 5% that makes 350k

350k x 5 = 1.75m, half of that being 875k

OK – I know business is down due to COVID, but even with her paramor in France and the partner at 74 I am not seeing either of them walk away from that sort of cash. I am probably way off in all numbers. Maybe the turnover was only 5m, the net only 3% and the value factor only 3… but even THAT values the company at 600k.

You DEFINITELY need independent legal advice on this…

Use the time until she returns wisely!

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 9858   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8622375
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MountainGuy ( New Member #75436) posted at 2:43 AM on Wednesday, January 6th, 2021

Before you sign off on anything related to her company get an accountant to check the books of her business.

This affair has been going on for something like two years? That's plenty of time for her to stuff money away that you have no idea about. You have no insight into how her business works or how she pays herself other than what she tells you.

Talk to your lawyer they should be able to point you to someone.

posts: 49   ·   registered: Sep. 15th, 2020
id 8622395
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 Dan90254 (original poster Member #75925) posted at 4:16 AM on Wednesday, January 6th, 2021

No I saw the paychecks and the deposits and the W2s and I paid the taxes on Apr15. I also transferred her 401 k to her IRA in July when they re thinking of closing the company. She didnt stash any money away. Her affair is strictly a love, sentimental thing. She lied to me , she deceived me but we don't have any money argument. We never had.

Besides all this is irrelevant because I'm still part owner of her 50% and I'm not giving up on that 25%.

posts: 50   ·   registered: Nov. 29th, 2020   ·   location: Southern California
id 8622437
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josiep ( Member #58593) posted at 1:20 PM on Wednesday, January 6th, 2021

I don't understand why I should run from any attorney who would advise me to agree for her to less than 50%. I cannot lose more than 50% as it is so why not have her sign on 30%? If she changes her mind later on I still would not have lost anything more than what I would have in the first place.

I have a zoom meeting next Friday with an attorney specializing in my line of work and with people who experienced the same difficulties.

Dan, please believe me (and I believe, others) who are cautioning you to slow down. Your pain is palpable and understandably so. Deal with your pain of the betrayal. It cuts deep. Very deep. Do not make decisions about your future while you are in this much pain.

Bigger explained it way better than I did. Your HR legal dept. said she'll get 50%. You cited a law that mandates 50% to her. How is your lawyer going to work around that? Has he explained that to you? If not, it's time to get a 2nd opinion.

If I'm not being too bold, how did you find your attorney? Are you sure he doesn't just see someone he can bilk out of a few thousand dollars while he's out playing golf and living the good life? Trust me, EVERY SINGLE PERSON responding to your story has experience in this very thing. We know what you are going through and we share your pain and your fear and your uncertainty. And it's horrible place for your heart and mind to be in. WE get that. So please, listen to us and open your heart and mind to the idea that just because she has betrayed you in the absolute worst way possible, we will not do that to you. We won't. We just won't. I told my EX it would've been kinder to put a bullet in my head than to blindside me like he did after 45 yr. of marriage. And I still believe that, even 4 yrs. later. What I've been through was horrific and I can't say that I will ever say that it did me any good in any way (I'm talking about the pain and heartache).

Read Bigger's posts again and try to wrap your head around it. I know it's hard for people who are more artistic or left-brained. Or is it right-brained? Whatever it is, I'm so far to the non-artistic side, it's a miracle I can tell red from black. Because of my extreme brain-sidedness, I can't choose wallpaper or paint color because I can't "see" it. At all. Not even an itty bitty bit. But I can see numbers and how to divvy up a pie and how to balance the books and how to analyze the figures. Bigger obviously can as well. So try to imagine that you and your wife are going to gather all your assets and create a pizza to share. If the law gives her 50% of your pension, that goes on her half of the pie but that means more pepperoni (IRA funds) for your half. And so on.

The way you lose with the 30% agreement and her coming back later is, she already ate all the pepperoni and now she can take your extra cheese. What you want to do is create a big pie and then divide it. But your brain is trying to take a pie of various sized pieces and say one for her, one for you where she takes all the big pieces. Sure, in the end you both have 4 pieces but she has 2/3 of the pie.

(Incidentally, when one person collects from another's SS account, it does not reduce the payments for the earner).

Another reason to read Bigger's posts again is how long he's been a member of this website and the fact that he's a guide, meaning management and his fellow posters hold him very high esteem.

[This message edited by josiep at 7:41 AM, January 6th (Wednesday)]

BW, 70 YO; M 45 yrs., T 49 yrs.
DDay#1, 1982; DDay#2, May, 2017. Divorced.

posts: 3062   ·   registered: May. 5th, 2017
id 8622516
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josiep ( Member #58593) posted at 1:49 PM on Wednesday, January 6th, 2021

Why divorcing?

Because I want to start a new chapter as painful as it is right now and I m guessing that no lady with half a brain would ever be interested in a long term relationship with a "separated" man. I'm 66 and maybe there's still someone out there who would be ok to share the next 10-15 years

Well, I'm a highly principled person who has never cheated anyone ever and who has never "been with" anyone other than my EX but if I happened to meet you and sparks flew, I'd be interested. So don't count smart and decent women out. You are the good guy in your story. You aren't perfect, I'm sure, but any smart woman would understand why you haven't filed for divorce yet. That said, if you meet someone and believe it might go somewhere, then you can file for the D and get things settled then.

So don't let that stop you. Besides, here's another way to project your thoughts: what if you rush into D now and get hosed and end up with less than you should have? How will you feel? Will it leave you feeling resentful? Will you ruminate over it for the next 10 years, wondering "coulda, shoulda, woulda"? Especially if she marries that guy and they turn that business around and become millionaires. What fun will you be then and what type of woman would be attracted to THAT?

[This message edited by josiep at 8:04 AM, January 6th (Wednesday)]

BW, 70 YO; M 45 yrs., T 49 yrs.
DDay#1, 1982; DDay#2, May, 2017. Divorced.

posts: 3062   ·   registered: May. 5th, 2017
id 8622522
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josiep ( Member #58593) posted at 1:58 PM on Wednesday, January 6th, 2021

Dan, I could go on with more ideas about the terms of your financials and whether to D now or later but we're all skipping over the biggest issue: your pain. And I believe I see who you are very clearly - a man in so much pain (and rightfully so) he can't face it yet so he's focusing on proving to himself that he's going to be noble and upstanding and stalwart. She'll see what she gave up. She'll be sorry. But it's not going to work that way. She's a narcissist and your feelings are of no consequence to her; in fact, she can't even comprehend that other people can't just turn a knob and make the feelings stop. She's also able to compartmentalize and you probably aren't.

Please go to the beach and kick the sand castles until you're exhausted and then when it's dark and the wind is right (so no one hears you) start screaming at her and tell her what a terrible and horrible thing she's done. Because at the end of the day, Dan, what she did was cruel and unconscionable and you didn't deserve it. Get that out and then you can start setting your old life aside and build a new one. And there are a lot of people here who have the knowledge and the training to help guide you through all of it. But you have to deal with the pain first. That's Rule #1 for surviving this awful thing that has happened to you.

So in essence, you're going to acknowledge it, feel it, get mad at it and throw it out on its ear. You've got this.

BW, 70 YO; M 45 yrs., T 49 yrs.
DDay#1, 1982; DDay#2, May, 2017. Divorced.

posts: 3062   ·   registered: May. 5th, 2017
id 8622525
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josiep ( Member #58593) posted at 2:13 PM on Wednesday, January 6th, 2021

Oh, one more thing, Dan. Have you taken the time to read through some of the stories in this forum, "Just Found Out"? It would be well worth your time to browse back in time and read a few of the very long ones from start to finish.

And, on the left side of the page is a yellow rectangular block with links. "The Healing Library" has a gold mine of things that can help you.

BW, 70 YO; M 45 yrs., T 49 yrs.
DDay#1, 1982; DDay#2, May, 2017. Divorced.

posts: 3062   ·   registered: May. 5th, 2017
id 8622529
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Bigger ( Guide #8354) posted at 4:25 PM on Wednesday, January 6th, 2021

Josiep is offering you good and valid advice.

The mediator you are using might be the best one in town and maybe what he is stating is all correct. But never forget his role: he is a mediator. His role is to create an agreement that can withstand legal inspection. The mediator might be an attorney and this might be what he does all day, but he is not YOUR attorney – he is your marriages mediator.

I’m going to offer you advice that is a combination of what Josiep is suggesting and what I would suggest:

Take some days off from infidelity now. Your wife has left, you have until March to come up with a plan. You mention golf: Go to your favorite driving range with your biggest and meanest driver, buy 300 balls and whack your frustrations away! Every time you line up rotate what you see on that little white ball: Dr. Clouseau, your wayward wife and the affair. Get it out of your system.

Take some walks. Look around. Happy where you are now? The house a home or a prison? Too many memories? What would you want to do and where would you want to be in 6 months? Start planning your future. Envision your life ahead.

VERY SOON. Like in a week or so. Start asking around for a good and reputable divorce/family/business lawyer and get an appointment. What you want is someone that is up-to-date on your situation and will give you a frank assessment over what is fair and what is realistic. He won’t meet with your mediator or your wife, but before you put pen to any paper you seek his advice and approval. Since he won’t have any court-time, document filing time and the role is limited to offering advice then the cost of this will be immensely lower than a full divorce and can ensure that the final deal is fair and holds water.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

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 Dan90254 (original poster Member #75925) posted at 1:16 AM on Thursday, January 7th, 2021

In CA there might be a law that mandates that she will get 50% as spouses of pensioneers like me. I don’t know for sure. She, WW, is at this point willing to sign for 30%. Maybe she can’t accept less than 50%. She can’t get more. I will not get less than 50%, I might end up with 70%. I will know next Friday.

The attorney I will consult is specializing in family law and divorces for people who were in the same line of work as I was.

The rest of our assets will be divided equally.

She is 67. She is no longer getting along with her partner who is 73. They only have enough money to go until June. That could change with the economic stimulus package. Anyway, she said, that too could change, that she only wants to rebuild the company or attempt to rebuild it until her partner and his husband ( they’re homosexuals) buy her out. However her partner told me a month ago that he has no intention of buying her shares. In any case travel wholesalers do not sell for millions. I’ve said it and I’m saying it again they are only worth for the people who are answering the phones and responding to e mails. I’ve seen the numbers. She is the engine, the motor, the heart of this business. Without her the company has about as much chance as me driving the green on a par 4.

You are both right on several points and in particular on one. I’m hurting really bad. But even though I’m still angry I feel that I’m doing better than last month and the month before. I’ve been sober since Jan01 and I don’t miss it. A bottle of Jameson, a six pack and 3-4 bottles of wine would last me 4 days when I first posted on SI. So I’m happy about that.

I will not rush into anything but I don’t see any obstacle to a fair settlement except for the pension.

I will not go yell at dark on the beach , even though the beach is very close but I talk aloud in my car and tell her what I really think of her and her «  loving » messages she sent me all last year while she was banging Dr Clouseau. She had the f....g balls of writing under our wedding photo ( 43 rd anniversary) that I posted on FB ....It’s been quite a ride. Happy anniversary. I love you...she had been with him over a year.

That I will never forget and never forgive.

posts: 50   ·   registered: Nov. 29th, 2020   ·   location: Southern California
id 8622674
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pureheartkit ( Member #62345) posted at 3:35 AM on Friday, January 8th, 2021

I had a WS who flew all over the world and lied just the same. We trust completely and with that freedom they lie and hurt us. I can't even imagine all that happened. Yes it hurts very much.

My thinking is they will get to feel this pain one day after the end of life. We all get to see what we were. I can tell you the pain will pass and if you can give yourself some breaks now and then to let your poor nerves rest it will help. Be good to your brain. Try olive oil and sesame oil and avocados. Exercise some to burn up the stress chemicals wearing on your organs.

If you find something new to interest your mind it will help the constant thoughts from taking over.

You have so much to share, all your experience and wisdom and love. You lived with kindness and trust and courage. Be good to yourself as you have been good to others.

Thank you everyone for your wisdom and healing.

posts: 2247   ·   registered: Jan. 19th, 2018
id 8622917
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josiep ( Member #58593) posted at 1:37 PM on Friday, January 8th, 2021

CA there might be a law that mandates that she will get 50% as spouses of pensioneers like me. I don’t know for sure. She, WW, is at this point willing to sign for 30%. Maybe she can’t accept less than 50%. She can’t get more. I will not get less than 50%, I might end up with 70%. I will know next Friday.

The attorney I will consult is specializing in family law and divorces for people who were in the same line of work as I was.

The rest of our assets will be divided equally.

Either i didn’t explain the point I was trying to make very well, causing u to not understand it or you understood it but don’t wish to consider it. And both of those scenarios are perfectly OK because it’s your life and in order to move forward, you’re the one who has to weigh the pros and cons and make decisions. you have to do this your way, no problem.

But since I can’t tell which of the above is what happened, I will bow out of the conversation. I do sincerely wish you all the best.

BW, 70 YO; M 45 yrs., T 49 yrs.
DDay#1, 1982; DDay#2, May, 2017. Divorced.

posts: 3062   ·   registered: May. 5th, 2017
id 8623017
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thatbpguy ( Member #58540) posted at 3:42 PM on Friday, January 8th, 2021

Ya know, Dan, I agree with Josiep. Let he go live where she wants, stay home and keep all your money without divorce. If she wants to file, she can when she wants to. If you meet someone, date and maybe even live together. Why let her have so much money for what she did?

ME: BHHer: WWDDay 1, R; DDay 2, R; DDay 3, I leftDivorcedRemarried to a wonderful woman

"There are far, far better things ahead than any we leave behind." C.S. Lewis

As a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool repeats his folly...

posts: 4449   ·   registered: May. 2nd, 2017   ·   location: Vancouver, WA
id 8623101
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 Dan90254 (original poster Member #75925) posted at 5:04 AM on Tuesday, February 16th, 2021

Feb15,

Quick update.

I liquidated our living trust as fairly as we wanted. She keeps her IRAs of course and I keep mine. The difference ( $130K) was compensated when we split the trust.

My attorney sent me the petition to sign. No problem with the pension split 70-30. We will serve her attorney because she is still in France.

I started packing and emptying the house. No fun at all. I’m moving to Las Vegas area. She s supposed to come March 16. Maybe by then I’ll be gone. Just kidding.

She still hasn’t apologized for the pain she caused and has expressed no regrets. For awhile in Dec and early January I was asking her questions and explanations. She ignored all of them. There are moments when I still can’t believe the whole thing, the affair and the lies for almost 2 years. Not her. She never would do that. She never would lie to me. But she did. I’m still very sad and I haven’t gotten over it.

posts: 50   ·   registered: Nov. 29th, 2020   ·   location: Southern California
id 8633556
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RocketRaccoon ( Member #54620) posted at 5:24 AM on Tuesday, February 16th, 2021

Dan,

Good that you are moving-on.

Now, a word of caution to you; please do not go hunting for the unicorn called 'Closure'. This can only lead to more heartache, and possibly open up more pain.

Closure comes from within you, and not from someone else. Do not pursue your WS for the reason, as that will lead you down a path of pain and confusion.

Just learn to accept that you did nothing to make your WS have an A. Just focus on yourself.

You cannot cure stupid

posts: 888   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2016   ·   location: South East Asia
id 8633558
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guvensiz ( Member #75858) posted at 11:45 AM on Tuesday, February 16th, 2021

Dan, it's good to hear from you, even if some part of the news isn't good. I was wondering how you were.

RocketRaccoon has already said very well what I wanted to say.In addition, I would like to say that your WW does not deserve your respect, attention, and value in the least. You should ghost her and move on.You deal with legal matters through your lawyers. Other than that, sharing something personal with her will deepen your pain which she doesn't care obviously. She seems satisfied with her current state. I don't know if this will change in the future. But even if she shows regret in the future, remember these times. These are times that she show how bad she can be.

posts: 476   ·   registered: Nov. 14th, 2020
id 8633574
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Bigger ( Guide #8354) posted at 12:29 PM on Tuesday, February 16th, 2021

I too am glad you are moving on.

Did you sell the house? Are you out of it?

I was afraid it would become some sort of mausoleum where you would be surrounded by memories and triggers.

Life will go on and you will be fine IF YOU ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE FINE.

Don’t go overboard on the temptations of Las Vegas, focus on your golf and living a good life.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 9858   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8633576
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Marz ( Member #60895) posted at 1:09 PM on Tuesday, February 16th, 2021

The “ lets be friends” thing usually comes up.

Definition of friend - loyal, honest and trustworthy. This would be all for her not you. It helps them alleviate guilt.

posts: 6611   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8633578
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DanielJK ( Member #75654) posted at 1:10 PM on Tuesday, February 16th, 2021

I know it’s easier said than done, but put her in your rear view mirror. She deserves not one second of your time or one inch of space in your head.

I'm very sorry that she put you in this position.

Searching for answers at this point is just chasing ghosts.

I know the profound sadness that comes with this all too well. Don't let this define the rest of your life.

BH 51
STBXWW 53
2 daughters, 14 and 16
Filed for divorce 12/23/2020

After a year of hell I finally moved out (5/26/2021).
Divorce still pending.

posts: 455   ·   registered: Oct. 13th, 2020   ·   location: CT
id 8633579
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 Dan90254 (original poster Member #75925) posted at 9:01 PM on Tuesday, February 16th, 2021

Regarding the house and her business.

When she first acknowledged the affair, back on Nov 03, my immediate reaction was to sell the hiyse. Then I changed my mind and wanted to keep it fir as long as I could have. Then I realized that it would be next to impossible to move on while still living in this house where we spent the last and very happy ( at least for me) 23 years. So we’re selling it. She said “ do whatever you think is good for you”.

Her business.

I possible to quantify today. Next to nothing. The attorney on the petition indicated TBD...to be determined. I’m not counting on anything coming from its sale. It’s OK, I won’t need it.

We have zero debts. We are also in our late 60s.

My main worry and it’s a major one. I beat 2 cancers prostate and bladder and she was both times right next to me every seconds of the fights. Now who will be by my side when the beasts return?

posts: 50   ·   registered: Nov. 29th, 2020   ·   location: Southern California
id 8633685
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SlapNutsABingo ( Member #71353) posted at 9:16 PM on Tuesday, February 16th, 2021

Now who will be by my side when the beasts return?

If, If the Beasts return.

God and everyone here, that's for sure...

[This message edited by SlapNutsABingo at 3:17 PM, February 16th (Tuesday)]

posts: 383   ·   registered: Aug. 21st, 2019   ·   location: WI
id 8633688
Topic is Sleeping.
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