SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I had intended this to be the place to first post my problem. But, issues with getting registered and it being time sensitive caused me to turn to the subreddit. I got really good feed back there and I am grateful. I can always use more help so I guess I'll first post my original reddit thread. Then my update this morning.

History

In July of 2017, I caught my wife cheating. It was brief, but accelerated from 0 to 100 real quick. Their interaction began on Facebook messenger on a Monday. They had met the Friday before at a work function. Their second meeting. Their first was a year prior at the same work function. It was local and he was a vendor for her company. Both meetings were brief and I am 100 percent sure there was nothing between them prior to or after these meetings until he contacted her the Monday after the second meeting.

The first messages were simple, hello and nice to see you again. But they talked off and on all day. The next evening he opened up with a proclamation of his attraction to her. She laughed it off at first but he continued. Two hours later she admitted to a physical attraction to him. This went on until Sunday and he arranged a hotel she joined him and it went physical. She got home and later that night ended it and apologized to him for letting it go too far. Two days later the messages start again and once again the following Sunday they meet at the same hotel. I found out that afternoon after getting on the computer and she accidentally left her Facebook logged in and and she messengered him after leaving to once again tell him they had to stop. Unlike many betrayed spouses, I had the entire affair in front of me. No doubts about what happened. No gaps. No lies. No gas lighting. I confronted her. It was bad. She immediately told him I knew and told him never to contact her.

I stayed home the next day because I was a wreck while she went to her mom's to give me space. She took my car because we had an appointment to get hers serviced at dealer but I could not stand to be in the thing or to go. The affair guy found out she was not at work so came by our house to try to see her. It did not go well. I recognized him when he got out and I met him on our front porch. I beat him up bad. Enough that he lost control of bladder and bowels. I sent a picture to my wife and told her she can have him. I was arrested (neighbors witnessed it), bonded out and charges dropped because he refused to press charges. I guess he afraid his wife would find out. He told here he was mugged or some stupid crap. She eventually learned the truth because I told her.

After three years of therapy, apologies, begging, changing jobs, and, to her credit doing everything right, I felt we were over the hump. This year has been the closest to normal I have felt in three years.

Saturday Night

We were invited to a party. It was a large party given by one of our friends. We walk in and five minutes later I look across the room and there he is with some older woman I recognize but don't know (the friend of a friend of the host). My wife looks in the direction I'm looking and sees him. He notices her. My wife turns around and walks off. He gathers his date and leaves.

I choose to ignore it. My wife though starts to really get into the booze. Later in the evening she disappears and I find her drunk and alone in the driveway. She's really drunk. While I guide her to the car, she's crying and mumbling. In the car she gets mad and starts yelling about how I have ruined her life and I've been so mean to her in the past. I'm really shocked at the outburst but due to what I learned while going through the early days of our separation I decide to start recording it on my phone and for about five minutes shes cussing me and bringing up my temper and how bad of a husband I had been. Then she says, "I can't believe you forced me to give up the love of my life. The only man that made me feel special. You beat him up and now he won't ever come near me." it went on for another five minutes and she eventually just passed out asleep. I put her in the guest room when we got home and I went upstairs to try to sleep.

In the morning I had already decided on divorce. And I am still going that route. She woke up late wondering why she was in the guest room and I just cast my phone to the TV and let her watch the video. Not going to lie her reaction was devastation. I don't think she was faking. She was shocked she expressed those feeling about the guy but it didn't matter. Somewhere inside her she loved him and I WAS DONE. I AM DONE.

The problem

At the time of her affair our children were 14 and 16. They knew we were having issues and that I had moved out but they never knew why as far as I know. I never told them. They are now 17 and 19. My daughter lives two hours away in the city where she goes to college and has stayed pending re-opening of school. She has an apartment she shares with two other girls and has been almost 100% self supporting outside of school expenses which are paid by a scholarship and an account her grandparents set up for our kids. My son, who was staying with his cousin over the weekend came back home Monday to me being gone. In an attempt try and rescue our marriage my soon to be ex-wife confessed everything to them both. It was bad. My daughter absolutely will not respond to her and I understand she unloaded on her mom. My son just got up and packed a bag and called me and asked if he come stay with me. I am currently renting a home from a real estate friend of mine. My son has only said that he wants to not talk right now and I have told him that's okay. My daughter this morning reached out to me and wants to stay with me when she comes home tonight. She wants to talk face to face. I know that she and my son have been talking but I don't know what they have discussed between them.

I really don't know what to do to help them through this..wife is blowing up my phone. Other than letting her know our son is with me and safe I have not responded. I have shut it off and bought a cheap pay as you go phone. Only my kids, work, and father have the number and know where we are staying. I have taken the week off to process this and speak to a lawyer..I work from home anyway right now so it won't be too much of a strain to go back to work but there are a lot of Zoom meetings so I'm not up to people seeing me right now.

The children are my concern right now. How do you help them process this? I can't stand the thought of them hating their mother like I do right now. She's still their mother. Yes she has to live with the results of her actions but they need a relationship with their mother just as much now as they did when they were younger. Any advice to help them or at least help me not make it worse on them.

This was my update this morning.

Real quick just to answer a few questions that people asked and then the update.

No there will be no reconciliation. The marriage is dead. Over. Done.

Yes I have a lawyer and we are working on the divorce.

The AP's wife was told three years ago and they are divorced.

Her reaction to the video was I believe genuine disbelief that she said these things. She clearly has some issues. But it does not matter why it happened...I'm done.

The time line around the altercation three years ago is, he showed up that Monday morning expecting her. Got Me. I was arrested and held for four hours pending bond from my father. She went home after my father contacted her and cleaned up mess on porch. I did not speak to her (except to arrange time with the kids) for a period of 12 days. I was at my father's home. I have no idea if she contacted him during this time or not. She said no. I found no proof. I suspect she tried and lied based on the quote I posted from the video. The arrest was very non-dramatic. Never saw the inside of a cell. Hopefully, we can move on about the physical altercation. I am embarrassed by it.....A little.

She claimed he knew where we lived because in their talks back and forth on the phone he wanted to drop off a present to her before the second hotel meet and she gave it to him. But one of the kids came home early and she called and told him not to come by. I am well aware this was probably an attempt to sleep with each other at our home. But I'm sure it did not happen. We have video surveillance and I checked after I was told and no footage was missing and he never showed.

Financially I make substantially more but she has her own income and retirement. I took over all accounts including hers after D-Day three years ago. She like wise had access to mine. There are no financial secrets between us. I know where every dollar goes. The house pays off in about 62 months. Solid middle class neighborhood. We both work in recession proof industries and evidently pandemic proof. Hers more than mine. I can live comfortably on my personal savings for a year if needed. Longer if I was frugal. She about the same without the mortgage. I dissolved all joint accounts including credit cards three years ago. I have not looked at her accounts since last week and changed my passwords Sunday evening.

Meeting with Kids

Obviously it was emotional. When daughter arrived there was a few minutes of hugs and tears. My son and I had gotten food from a little restaurant that my family enjoyed so we heated it up and sat down and ate and talked. Without going into word-for-word dialogue, they both are angry with their mother and extremely worried about me. I assured them that I would be fine and that none of this is their fault or their burden to bear. I mainly just let them talk and answered their questions honestly. I guess the first biggest revelation was the time line on how they were told.

My son was staying at his cousins this weekend, who lives nearby. Monday, he left the cousin's home and went to the home where he is attending a teaching pod. If you don't know what that is, it's a neighbor that has opened up her home to five school age students and they attend distance learning together. I won't go into the details but it's been helpful to hold the kids accountable for their online work and give them some structure and socializing as well. Think old time school house with different grades. Anyway, he came home for lunch and my STBXW was there and he was obviously concerned about her and her appearance. And she told him everything. Just like that. He was...in shock. And from what he told me she was truthful in relaying what she said and did not minimize it at all. He went upstairs to his room and called his older sister because he was worried about me and he then told her. She is the one that told him to call me. He did. I made arrangements to pick him up, I'm only 15 minutes away, and he left to meet me on the next street over from our home. As he left he texted my daughter that he was out of the house. My daughter called my STBXW and blasted her pretty bad. I picked up my son. Sent STBX a text that he was with me and told her to respond "okay" to acknowledge she got it. She did and less than 30 seconds later she started calling. I turned off the phone and it's been off ever since.

I also learned that my daughter already new about the affair from three years ago. About three or four months into our reconciliation, she over heard my wife talking to her cousin, the parent of the cousin my son visited (it's actually a second cousin but whatever), and heard her tell her what had happened. She evidently used this person as support through the reconciliation process. I never knew. Anyway, she heard that and never told us. Now this bothers me in a way I cannot explain. But my little girl carried this alone for three years. I'm not able to write the words to describe how I felt when I learned this. I know we experienced some issues between her and her mother but we chalked it up to normal teenager stuff along with the stress of our marital issues. It also explains her being so adamant about being on her own and her desire to move out when she graduated high school.

My take away from last night is the same as it was yesterday. I'm worried about my kids. There is both sadness and anger in both but its different depending to which you are speaking. My son is mostly sad with an undercurrent of anger. My daughter is extremely angry. Frighteningly angry with a just a hint of sadness that seems to be only for me. She has a very visible line in her emotions. Anger at her mother and sadness for me. My son is a mixture of both to each of us. We talked a long time. Afterwards we did get into some funny stories about their growing up. None of them involved their mother. I asked them to try to work on mending their relationship with their mother. I explained that she needs them as much as I do and that they will need her too. But it is their decision. I explained that I would like for them to talk to someone. My son is a little hesitant but he'll come around. My daughter is going to take advantage of the mental health clinic on her campus first. She wants to do this on her own, but has promised if they are not meeting her needs that she would look for someone through my insurance. And I did notice one thing last night that I knew but it was...really on display and very apparent last night. They are helping each other. I'm proud of that beyond relief. All in all, it was just a sad night.

Moving forward

I received a call from my Dad last night just prior to my daughters arrival. My mother-in-law had contacted him to check on me and the kids. She asked if she could speak to me and/or the kids. I will probably call her today. She's been a good MIL. A lot like my late FIL. Very down to earth. No nonsense. She held my STBX accountable through the past three years. She also said my BIL flew in Wednesday evening. Not sure the significance of that. He and my STBX are not extremely close. He is six year older than her. They get along fine but the age difference is significant. He is a lawyer. Real Estate attorney but a lawyer none the less. We'll see what happens. My father also reminded me at some point I have to deal with the STBX even if it is just to handle practical matters like, paying bills, son's things, etc. So I'll be thinking on that today. While I'm writing this it's about 6 AM. My thought is I'll probably call my MIL today. Definitely update after that conversion because I am sure that I will get information regarding my STBX that I don't necessarily want. I want to get that out of the way before the weekend. I'm tired of the drama. I'm tired of dwelling on it. My daughter leaves Monday afternoon and I would like to spend the rest of my time this week and weekend with them in as much peace as possible.

Again thank you for your help strangers. I feel pretty good now that my kids and I have talked but again I am concerned. Like I said I'll update after I speak to MIL but probably go quiet this weekend while I'm with my kids.

That is where it stands. I will be calling my MIL this afternoon and we will go from there.

Wow. That's a lot going on. I'm sorry you had to endure all that, but I'm glad you seem to be in a good place (relatively speaking). Meaning, you seem to be handling this well, given the circumstances, you know what you want and have a plan to proceed.

In response to your question regarding helping your kids, I think you are doing the right thing by letting them know that you want them to have a good relationship with their mother (I am the same way). They are angry, but they will likely calm down after a little while. Your daughter's anger is understandable. She probably spent a lot of time wondering if today was the day you walk out and file for D. That's a lot of stress for a kid, and she felt she couldn't talk to anyone because of how she found out. Her anger will probably take longer. In her shoes, I'd probably be thinking that I spent a long time in fear of the D, then when it seemed everything was good and going to be OK, WW blows it up and now your daughter STILL has to deal with the D. Anger is understandable.

My advice is to keep doing what you are, be a stable father, let them tell you how they feel and encourage them. They will heal.

I hope your STBXWW works with you to streamline the D so it can be as simple and quick as possible. It sounds like she has little to gain and everything to lose by making it contentious.

This is a teaching moment in their lives. It is all about having to deal with a parent’s sexual behaviors and lying. The lying is a steep hill to climb for children. They still had you wife as an ethical person and so they now have to look at reality that we all have feet of clay.

If they don’t get a handle on it it will come back and bite them. I have watched some young relatives try to sort out all this mess. It takes a toll unless you get them some help.

I admire you for speaking up for their mother. They need her and she needs them

Take care of yourself. Stress can be a killer.

SeeYaIamOut,

I am so sorry for the situation you find yourself.

I understand how you feel right now but do not be surprised as I am sure your emotions will be all over the place before the end of the calendar year.

With children, infidelity adds another level of hell that you will be dealing with soon. They are of age in regards to where they want to stay so be as accommodating as possible with their wishes.

Keep your and the children's health, safety and welfare firmly in your sights.

It is great that your children are with you but do not put the pressure of what is going on in your marriage on their shoulders.

Make sure you see a lawyer so that you and your children are protected.

As for the MIL, I too had great In-laws but at the end of the day your wife is still her daughter. Keep that in mind.

SYO - my man you are handling this like a champ.

Being totally honest with what is going on w/ this age of kids is absolutely what I would have done in the same situation.

I would make sure your DD has access to therapy resources at school when she returns, and encourage her to talk through all of it, including keeping her mothers dirty secret for 3 years. She will absolutely have stuff to work through and non-involved third party can definitely help her.

I would encourage you to offer up the same for your son. Call your Health insurance provider to see what resources and recommendations for therapists there are. He is going to be angry, sad, etc. He will grieve the death of his parents marriage.

It appears that you have clearly made your choice and are going to move forward and not waiver from that. So you can focus on yourself and your healing. Make sure that you being kind to yourself every day.

I can relate to this story having gone through something similar. The fact that they have no memory doesn't help at all.

In my wife's case it was coming out of anesthesia. Like your wife, she let me know in no uncertain terms that she thought I was a controlling asshole, always holding her back. 30 minutes later did not even remember that we talked.

There was an old movie Forbidden Planet. One of the classic lines was "Monsters Dan. Monsters from the id."

When all filters are gone, the real inner person comes out.

So the takeaway message for your kids is : The people that most despise you are not the ones you most hurt. They are the ones you most helped.

I'm not suggesting that one should never help another. Just know that this is a fact of life, and one should not be surprised when the truth comes out.

The other message now reinforced is with too much booze, the lizard brain takes over. This is usually most important to know in college.

I think you are doing a terrific job and there’s not much more you can do.

You know your children need time but you can reinforce every so often that “she’s still your mom and she’s been a good mom”. I believe over time things will mend with them and their mom.

Your D can be whatever you want. You can have family dinners a few times a year if you want. It may help the kids heal if they see you don’t hold any animosity or hatred. That your best interest is the family.

Or you may decide no contact is your only option. Then it’s up to your STBXW and kids to meet on their own. Not involving you.

I think your kids are lucky to have such a concerned parent.

I asked them to try to work on mending their relationship with their mother. I explained that she needs them as much as I do and that they will need her too. But it is their decision. I explained that I would like for them to talk to someone.

You are handling everything great. Just a thought though---. Even though your daughter knew, this 'new' reality is a shock to them. A bit of a D-day. I might rephrase next time it comes up that you are good with them having a relationship with their mother eventually or something of the sort because it is what is best FOR THEM in the long run. Right now though, it is up to them, and you will support whatever they choose. I think that is what you meant, but asking them to 'work' on it now might truly go against their good nature, while they are still absorbing everything. Just a tiny detail but something that struck me.

Take care.

It's a lot for anyone (especially a young person) to process.

IMO, I think (unless your wife is abusive to them) that it's to their long term benefit to R with their mother.

Talk to a therapist about whether group IC for the entire family would help the kids by providing a structured safe place for the kids to express their anger, sorrow, disappointment etc.

I think there may be a big benefit for them to be exposed to the same IC and healing strategy so they can help each other.

Not sure if your wife should be present or when - but I think you should attend at least in the beginning or later near the end.

SYIAO,

Good work on beating up the OM, if I knew your store before hand it would have been tough to choose how to intervene, get you a bottle of water to drink or a baseball bat.

You wrote, "I can't believe you forced me to give up the love of my life. The only man that made me feel special. You beat him up and now he won't ever come near me."

You are not alone I think deep down many "exWWs" are still addicted to their affair partners. Like an alcoholic taking a drink all your WW had to do was see the OM with another woman and she fell off the wagon.

My W still has love for an OM from 30 years back.

Does your WW realize that the only man who ever made her feel special, has likely made lots of other women believe that?

Thanks for all of your kind replies. My son returned to his teaching pod today and my daughter has spent the day with friends to catch up I guess. I do not on plan bringing up anything about their mother over the next few days. But I will discus anything if they bring it up themselves. I will ask them about going to see their grandmother.

Therapy is definitely going to happen. My own therapist I worked with after the original D-Day retired about five months ago. I'll look into options. My daughter is adamant about getting her own therapist. I will have to take a wait and see approach on that and "pick my battles" carefully on that front. She's become very complicated to me right now. I'm on loose ground myself and I really don't project the confidence in their lives that I have in the past.

MIL UPDATE

So I spoke to MIL. And it was as normal a conversation as you can have under the circumstances. Again I won't get into word for word dialogue but just hit the major points and go from there.

-She obviously voiced concern about the kids and myself. She also wanted to know if it was okay to the see the kids. I said of course but it is up to them. I reminded her, gently, that if she plans on their mother being there she better warn them or there could be damage to her and her grand kids relationship. She said she had no intentions of doing that but at the same time did not think about it being an issue and would make sure she was alone.

-She asked if I had any intentions of divorcing her daughter. I told at this point I was not comfortable discussing that with anyone. (I'm assuming anything I say to her will get back to the STBXW)

-She was kind enough to ask me if she could relay some details about what has happened since I left the house instead of just doing it. I thought about it and told her to go ahead but she may not like my reaction or lack of reaction. She said she understood.

-My STBXW has pretty much shut down. Cries all the time and eats very little.

-She has been to two in person therapy sessions and numerous online sessions since Tuesday.

-She evidently set an alarm to go off every hour to call me and leave a voice message and send a text. They were able to get her to stop doing that Tuesday evening. This behavior is what prompted the BIL to fly home. There was some discussion about possible hospitalization. That appears to have been put on the back burner.

-STBX has opened up to her mother about what happened and it appears on the surface she did not leave any details out about what was on the video. MIL did not comment any further on that.

-STBX wants me to meet with her and her therapist at some point in the coming days. She says it's important and regardless what happens she hopes I'll agree. (not really interested. I was non-committal)

-STBX has committed to giving me as much time as I need (gee thanks!) but feels it's really important that I meet with her and her therapist as soon as possible.

-STBX has suggested to open at least a line of communication between us. email, text, etc. This I am more than likely going to agree to...email is probably the best route. Right now I cannot stand to hear her voice. I told MIL I'd let her know and I would set some ground rules when I do.

I'm really not sure what to do about the meeting request. I can't possibly see anything good coming from that meeting. I'm pretty set on the email communication just to deal with logistical stuff. I'm thinking of setting the following rules...

Emails only pertain to household business and kids.

No relationship stuff will be discussed.

If she breaks those rules. I stop communication.

If she starts spamming me with emails. I stop communication.

Any thoughts on this approach? Good? Bad? I'm scrambling right now.

Seriously this is a shit show I absolutely wish would go away.

SeeYaIamOut:

Sorry you are going through this. You seem to be doing a lot of things right. Great that you are there for your kids. Well done. This will be an emotional roller coaster for them as well as you. Keep your eye on the end game. You have decided your course of action. Keep moving forward. Strength to you and your children. Let me just comment about an observation you made. Apparently during your WW’s drunken tirade she accused you of forcing her to give up the “love of her life” and the only man who made her feel special. You commented that somewhere inside her she loved him. Nah! She didn’t love this jerk. She loved the fantasy. She liked the attention and the excitement. You destroyed her fantasy and deep down she resents you for doing that. Do you actually think your WW knows this guy was the love of her life knowing him for 10 days? Nah! You burst her little bubble and fantasy. The fact that she held on to this resentment for three years after therapies, changing jobs and doing everything right is a huge red flag. Keep moving forward. Good luck.

[This message edited by fareast at 8:32 PM, September 24th (Thursday)]

SeeYa, I think you're doing great. As for the ground rules on the email exchange, that is what I would recommend.

I would also nix the meeting with the MILs therapist and the WW's therapist as well. There is nothing in there for you.

With your BIL being an attorney, I'd make sure you play this straight. At the end of the day, they're still blood and he is going to look after her best interest no matter what. He did fly home for her, and that shows something.

Going forward, in your email, make sure anything you write is Judge and Divorce court readable. Meaning, don't denigrate the WW, only talk business and logistics. Make sure you offer access to your WW to talk to your son. If he has his own phone, which he probably does at 17, you can put the onus on your WW to just email/text/call him directly and that you will stay out of it. That way, you don't look like the father who is alienating the mother, and I know you aren't but you want to clearly show that in court.

This goes for all other items including finances. Make sure what you do, say all jives with the court. You want to come off as a rule follower, and if you don't have an attorney yet, I'd get on that. Once you get one lined up, you can have the attorney be the go thru person so you can speak with the WW even less.

I think b/c your kids are old enough now, you're going to really only have to deal with finances. That's pretty straight forward. You split up marital assets, and if you make more, you may owe some alimony, but there shouldn't be much in the way of CS, especially since your son is 17, that goes way quickly.

You're on a good path. Glad you really found out WTF was going on inside your wifes head, instead of living a lie for the rest of your life.

SeeYa,

Sorry you find yourself here. I am sure wiser heads the me will offer you wise counsel born of the many bitter and painful experiences you can read here.

To quote one of those wise minds:

"The drunk mind says what the sober mind thinks." Or something like that.

Your pain and anger are 100% understandable. More so given her infidelity of three years ago and you having forgiven it and believing that you had both moved on from it. Kudos to you for having the presence of mind to record her drunken words that night and also for your calm and measured response to all that has happened since. Your concern for the well-being of your children shows that you are a man who truly and lovingly cares for his family.

If you are sure that you want to divorce your WS then go ahead and see your lawyer and get his/her advice so that you know what you are dealing with, what are your options going forward and what the divorce process will involve. If later on you have doubts or change your mind (not suggesting that you do) then you can, at that time, pause or stop the process. Having said that my advice is to take a couple of days to try and calm yourself (as much as possible given the circumstances) and assess and weigh all the advice you will receive and decide what you want to take and what you want to disregard before you make any decisions and chart your way forward and out of this mess.

As for meeting with your wife and her therapist that is for you to decide. As you have said first and major priority at this time is your and your children's healing and recovery. Your WW's healing is not.

Wishing you the strength you will need to heal and the peace you seek.

SI is a lot about learning. Not only for the original poster, but also for others that are reading and trying to get a grasp on THEIR situation. I want to address this issue and the response it got:

I beat him up bad. Enough that he lost control of bladder and bowels. I sent a picture to my wife and told her she can have him. I was arrested (neighbors witnessed it), bonded out and charges dropped because he refused to press charges.

And the response by a poster:

Good work on beating up the OM,

I don’t think we here on SI advocate or support violence. Even if we could agree that OM deserved it, and even if beating the OM might be every BH biggest fantasy.

IMHO this is the single biggest mistake you made and at that time could have cost you prime custody and even residence in your home.

Seriously - DEAD seriously – Lets play out this scenario:

Police at your home arresting you because witnesses support that you assaulted the man. Even if charges were not pressed there is now a public record that indicates you are violent and/or can’t control your anger.

At the time – if your WW wanted out – she could have requested and probably got – a restraining order that would have prevented you from entering your home. That RO would be based on the police report showing you are a violent man and were violent at the home. Maybe some posters will try to counter this but I’m a former cop and I remember several instances where husbands were explicitly forbidden to be within several hundred yards from their homes.

Even if she hadn’t done that, but you decided to divorce then the police report would/could weigh in on the judge’s decision on prime custody. Granted with kids at 14 and 16 their input would weigh heavily, but for someone reading this with kids under 12 then a public record showing violence and/or anger issues is not a good parenting indicator…

So, I am not going to say good work on beating the OM. It was stupid and could have caused you immense serious problems. Good you got away with it, but stupid for doing it.

Other than that:

Well – you have told the kids and probably done it in the best way possible. Good work.

Now realize and understand that divorce isn’t an alternative form of marriage. It’s the end of a marriage. If it wasn’t for the kids, then chances are you would have no reason in the future to see your ex. Since you have the kids then IMHO it’s best if you can find a way to deal with the issues of the minor for the year he has left as a minor and then find ways to interact amicably on occasions involving the older young adults.

Brother, you are in a shit storm. But have taken a path that is for you and your circumstances. You know her the best.

You have your convictions and have made your call.

Number 1 are the children IC is a great idea and good they are both onboard as well as talking to each other. A good mutual support structure. Well done there.

Yes you also have made a good call re email contact with STBX only a suggestion with possibly an emergency contact being a mutual third party, that is aware of the situation say one of your parents.

Just breath, seek legal guidance. Do as advised there.

Well remove the sober filter and look what the underlying thoughts were. Did you ever realise she had those underlying emotions and issues with you and her marriage?

Strength to you but eventually you will have to have a few sit down sessions with STBX regarding settlement, children etc.

One day at a time.

If sorry you are here, SeeYa, but you know it's a very good place to have found under the circumstances.

I think you are handling the situation with the children very well. Your daughter wants to utilize the counselling at her college. She's already thought about it. You've offered other counselling alternatives and she's agreed if her method doesn't suffice. Keep in touch with her about progress and that the alternatives are still open. Counselling for your son is in the works. Counselling for you is in the works. From now on it will be as you are already doing - open communication when they want to talk, encourage a relationship with their mother, etc. I wouldn't push the relationship with their mother too hard but that you think they need to be open to it. It's up to your WW to repair the relationship with them.

"The drunk mind says what the sober mind thinks."

quoted by Bluewater.

And by Buffer -

Well remove the sober filter and look what the underlying thoughts were. Did you ever realise she had those underlying emotions and issues with you and her marriage?

Those things said to you while drunk at the event didn't just come out of no where. They are truth. The alcohol let the tongue say what the mind has been thinking. Your WW was venting about her "loss" when she saw her AP with another woman.

I think your plan on email communications only makes perfect sense. I doubt your STBXWW will be able to abide by the rules of kids/finances only, but it is the best way to minimize the attempts to manipulate.

feels it's really important that I meet with her and her therapist as soon as possible.

It's really important to you STBXWW! She needs that oppotunity, with her therapist as support, to manipulate/convince/plead with you not to D. This meeting is all about her and has NOTHING to do with your needs. It seems you've made it clear that you need space from her, but she won't accept that. I think you're playing it smart by waiting until you file to tell her HELL NO!

In vino veritas

In wine the truth…

You can choose if you want to believe it or not. As a cop I met drunk people that insisted they were the president, attorneys or police officers. Heck… I met one that claimed to be Jesus. Also met quite a few that claimed they weren’t drunk or fully capable of operating a vehicle. Fact they were drunk didn’t make their statements true, so I guess it’s not a non-exceptional claim. Being drunk does not automatically equate to you spewing the truth.

If In vino veritas were totally true then maybe we should change the often offered advice of a poly and simply request our WS downs a bottle of Jacks… Be cheaper.

But there is probably a grain of truth in what she said. She is definitely hanging on to resentment.

None of it matters. Going to IC with her, her state… NONE OF IT MATTERS.

If you are divorcing all that is needed is that you are OK with the decision.

It’s your role to recover yourself – her role to recover herself.

Divorce is the termination of a marriage.