"You can survive this. Talk to others that have"

bewuzzled posted 8/10/2020 21:00 PM

If you read her post in wayward she didn’t go against her feelings with the hall pass. She facilitated it. It never would have happened if she didn’t push it. It also sounds like she actually did get forgiveness from him. Things were pretty good for 8 years until they opened it up.

This is true. I did not go against feelings to do this. Things were good at the start of the first time, and at the start of the second time.

but her husband does not deserve to be portrayed as a monster. It was a mistake to cheat, and a mistake to open things up. Both things she chose.

absolutely true. he's a good guy but this was a mistake. And I feel like the way that he's looking at it now, is not quite right. Of course I can't change how he feels or how he sees it. I just feel like it's so convoluted and messy, nothing will ever make sense again. I don't know how to get him to look at it any differently than he is.

Cooley2here posted 8/10/2020 21:28 PM

Life, unfortunately, is all about power. Who has it, who doesn’t. A good marriage is a constant silent, noisy, emotional re-evaluation, daily, sometimes hourly, of how to share the power. If it is evenly distributed it’s called homeostasis. The body has homeostasis when it is healthy. The same goes for marriage. If only one has the power the relationship is sick. That is what she described, a sick relationship. I don’t support cheating. She could have left but suppose neither of them recognized the very, very, subtle way manipulation took place. Who was in charge? We don’t know. This is her side of the story. I only see that twice she gave part of herself away to get his attention. He gave it but it was not the kind she wanted.
Sorry, bewuzzled, to t/j.

99problems posted 8/10/2020 21:32 PM

I mean, I would have forgiven (or tried to) and stayed with my stbxw. It was fairly unhappy, but it didn't have to be. She never wanted to put in the effort and stayed in wayward mode.
We will never, ever, ever , be back together (Taylor swift reference lol)

Butforthegrace posted 8/11/2020 06:09 AM

If you read her post in wayward she didn’t go against her feelings with the hall pass. She facilitated it. It never would have happened if she didn’t push it. It also sounds like she actually did get forgiveness from him. Things were pretty good for 8 years until they opened it up.

I want to be sympathetic to her plight, but her husband does not deserve to be portrayed as a monster. It was a mistake to cheat, and a mistake to open things up. Both things she chose.

By opening up the marriage she took a risk. It didn’t play out

I'm not on the same page with you on this, WWTL. We of course only have the limited facts presented by the poster, and they are only her side of the fact. We tend, I think, to overlay our own experience onto those facts.

Befuzzled's MH husband sounds like a man she should have divorced long ago, quite frankly. Not invested in the marriage. Many here focus on Befuzzlde's A as her initial wrong decision, but maybe her initial wrong decision was to not divorce him, or even to marry him in the first place.

I say this because he behave as an awful, entitled, spoiled bitch in the open/poly part of the marriage. Affairs by a spouse in a "first and onlies" marriage always carries that added element of: "Now your number is greater than 1, but mine is still at 1. I'm curious to know what greater than 1 feels like."

Befuzzled was sensitive to that unique element to "first and onlies" infidelity and undertook a rather unusual step to solve that discreet issue: not just a hall pass, but also an active, ongoing threesome with her BH. This makes her somewhat of a unicorn among cheating wives. I've seen a number of threads here where cheating wives offered a hall pass, and even made arrangements to fix the BH up with another woman (which Befuzzled sort of did initially here), but this is the only thread in my recollection where the WW went "extra" for the BH and engaged in a threesome with the BH and the other woman.

There have been a number of threads here involving poly or open marriages of various ilk. They can work, but when third party sex is involved, rules and boundaries become critically important. A spouse in an open marriage is unfaithful and is committing infidelity if he is engaging in sex with others outside of the scope of agreed-upon rules and boundaries.

The simple reality is that Befuzzled's MH husband cheated on her, he did it repeatedly, even after she asked him to stop cheating on her. He even rubbed her face in it. He was a cruel bitch about it. I don't think it was driven at that point by pain from her A, or a desire for revenge from her A. I think that it was a reveal of something about his true character. Entitled. Selfish. Does not hold Befuzzled in the high regard a man should hold his wife.

Tigersrule77 posted 8/11/2020 06:30 AM

The simple reality is that Befuzzled's MH husband cheated on her, he did it repeatedly, even after she asked him to stop cheating on her. He even rubbed her face in it. He was a cruel bitch about it.

Whoa! I did not read this anywhere on her posts on this thread. Maybe this is an example of how we all see things through different filters, I'm not sure.

In my opinion, OP cheated on her BH, and admitted, she didn't handle it well. They tried R for 8 years, not much detail, but based on the last two, I'm guessing BH was not able to heal and clearly the M was not healed.

So OP suggests the hall pass. It was a bad idea and shows that OP doesn't really understand the damage of the betrayal. It really doesn't even the score. And the chances that it would heal the M are pretty small. BH makes a bad decision and accepts the offer. Then TOGETHER they make another bad decision to have a poly relationship (it seems). I think most would have predicted this would not end well.

There is plenty of blame to throw around. However, I see nothing from OP's comments that her (now) WH is an evil person.

It seems to me that we are getting off track and focusing on the wrong details. bewuzzled stated they have decided on D. I'm curious what help or advice OP needs regarding this.

Neanderthal posted 8/11/2020 08:03 AM

I've been trying to back off from SI. But I've read your story Bewuzzled and felt compelled to post.

Most folks here on SI just aren't capable of seeing shades of grey. Its only black and white. Someone is the villain, and someone is the victim. That's not always the case, but they create that narrative anyway.

I also believe most BS's have waaaay more in common with there WS's than most would be willing to admit. FOO issues, lack of Coping skills, terrible communication methods, etc.

So in your story, both you and your STBXH are broken. Fortunately YOU don't have to stay that way. Most of the advice given to a BS is very similar to whats told to a WS.

Let go of the outcome
Detach
Focus on self care
Identify your short comings and work towards correcting them.
Don't patch the holes in you with poor decisions and bad coping skills.

Lack of self worth is probably the biggest problem BS's an WS's have to overcome. You need to find your value without your MH husband.

I am very sorry you're in this situation. As a MH myself, I completely understand how fucked up you may feel from one second to the next. "I'm hurt like a BS, yet I am also a WS. Do I deserve this?"
The answer is no. You don't deserve it, but only you have the power to feel better about yourself.

There are a lot of details left out of your story. So I am not going to just fill in the blanks and create a narrative. Remember that while receiving advice. Does it fit what you want to hear? or is it actually helpful.

Read in the BS section. Grieve your loss. Love yourself. Heal yourself.

[This message edited by Neanderthal at 8:04 AM, August 11th (Tuesday)]

tushnurse posted 8/11/2020 09:55 AM

First - Welcome Back.

Second - I agree w/ Neaderthal on some of his points, as far as being an all or nothing good vs evil narrative that happens on some pages here.

That said I want to encourage you to take what you need and leave the rest.

What I am getting from your posts this time is that you went into a threesome/thruple situation in hopes of renewing a somewhat broken, never fully recovered relationship. So I have a few thoughts and recommendations.... I have been here a long time, and we managed to R our relationship, and I have seen been close to others that have gone into similar relationships with similar outcomes....

1. Your H never truly healed himself from your A. That left him feeling somewhat at a loss, like is this as good as it gets now, and how do I ever accept what was done to me. Some men really struggle with the acceptance of being victimized and they are when an A occurs, and without proper grieving and recovery from it he won't be healthy. Or the other option is he did heal properly, but it was ultimately a deal breaker but he was comfortable enough with the status quo to not walk away (which for me is counter intuitive to proper healing).

2. Thruples/threesome relationships rarely work due to the ability to be secretive, and the ability to exclude one person or one person to be left out and lose trust w/ the other two. Even with the rule clearly outlined at the beginning, it rarely ends well.

3. Your H was content/comfortable w/ the new normal you reached after your A. But he didn't see the potential to have a better/happier situation in a long term relationship until he agreed to the proposal of a threesome relationship. Then he woke up and felt all those new relationship feelings, and liked them. Unfortunately if you don't rebuild your M in a meaningful way that creates those same feelings it is really hard to R in a lasting way. Those early relationship hormones are very strong for a reason and it goes back to our cave man days to sustain humanity and be safe.

So now you are hurting again, and wondering what you could have done differently to prevent this, and probably kicking yourself for suggesting the thruple situation. However I would encourage you to get yourself into some IC. The only person you can control and the only outcome that you can control is your own. If your H isn't willing to or sees things as done now, then you ultimately have to let it go.
D is a loss, Separation is a loss. You have some grieving to do, and you need help to navigate this somewhat complex situation. I would encourage you to find a therapist that specializes in trauma and infidelity to help you identify behaviors in yourself that will allow you to make decisions that detrimental to yourself despite seeing an instant positive.

Hang in there, we are here for you and willing to listen to you, and will try to prevent you from making the same mistakes we did on our journeys.

Fof9303 posted 8/12/2020 08:05 AM

@bewuzzled

I am so sorry that you have to go through this. I read some of your back story. I have never heard of a marriage that did well from inviting another into it voluntarily. Maybe you need some time apart from one another to gain some perspective. Some times the distance can make your heart yearn for one another more. There is a lot of damage that I think would require a good counselor to dig through. Anything can be repaired if you want it badly enough. Take a breath and give some space. Blessings to you.

bewuzzled posted 8/12/2020 15:00 PM

A spouse in an open marriage is unfaithful and is committing infidelity if he is engaging in sex with others outside of the scope of agreed-upon rules and boundaries.

H did not engage in sex with others outside the scope of agreed upon rules and boundaries. I am. So sorry if I said something that made it seem like that. He followed all agreed upon rules and boundaries. He did not always like or agree with them, but he did follow them. There was one single incident where they made out in his truck, while I wasn't there, after hanging out with a group of friends while I was working. H and I had fought and I'd told him to do whatever he wanted in anger, and he started to but then stopped it. He did confess this to me after a couple of days and i was very upset. But I forgave, and we forgot.

bewuzzled posted 8/12/2020 15:00 PM

A spouse in an open marriage is unfaithful and is committing infidelity if he is engaging in sex with others outside of the scope of agreed-upon rules and boundaries.

H did not engage in sex with others outside the scope of agreed upon rules and boundaries. I am. So sorry if I said something that made it seem like that. He followed all agreed upon rules and boundaries. He did not always like or agree with them, but he did follow them. There was one single incident where they made out in his truck, while I wasn't there, after hanging out with a group of friends while I was working. H and I had fought and I'd told him to do whatever he wanted in anger, and he started to but then stopped it. He did confess this to me after a couple of days and i was very upset. But I forgave, and we forgot.

Neanderthal posted 8/12/2020 18:26 PM

H did not engage in sex with others outside the scope of agreed upon rules and boundaries.
There was one single incident where they made out in his truck

He did do something that wasn't agreed upon. I understand why you are minimizing his actions. But you must stop that. You're giving him a pass based on your WS history. That's how bad marriages work. Ask me how I know.

He went beyond your boundaries that you both agreed upon. Now you are hurt bad. It's ok to feel that way. You are a Betrayed Spouse.

He may have convinced himself that he deserves to break the rules. It's time to stand up for yourself. Your pain is real and valid. DO NOT IGNORE THAT.

I'm so sorry you're a MH. It's almost impossible to grasp all of this at once. You may bounce back and forth feeling guilt, shame, regret, anger, grief, and worst of all worthlessness. Do not blame yourself for HIS actions. You own your affair and your part in the marriage, but you don't own his infidelity.

If some part of him still loves you, he's dying inside. Cause he now knows he caused the same pain he had to endure.

Be kind to yourself.
Are you eating?
Sleeping at all?
Talking with friends you trust?
Hopefully an IC?
DO NOT SHOULDER THIS ALONE!

I apologize now if I'm projecting. I just see too many similarities.

bewuzzled posted 8/12/2020 21:43 PM

He may have convinced himself that he deserves to break the rules

He did. He said we were fighting and I'd told him in anger to do whatever he wanted. So he started to, but then didn't go through with it. He said because he knew I didn't mean what id said. And he was right. It did still huet though. And he TTd me a little, cause he told me a couple of days after the original confession that his penis was out during all this.

If some part of him still loves you, he's dying inside. Cause he now knows he caused the same pain he had to endure.

I think this is true. And I know he loves me. And he's absolutely hurting.

Be kind to yourself.
Are you eating?
Sleeping at all?
Talking with friends you trust?
Hopefully an IC?
DO NOT SHOULDER THIS ALONE!

I am not good at being kind to me, but I'm trying.
EATING? absolutely not, I can't.
I do sleep pretty well
I am in IC
I do talk to my best friend and my mom
And you guys, I have you guys

Tigersrule77 posted 8/13/2020 09:04 AM

bewuzzled, I'm wondering what you are looking for. Are we helping you? It seems most of the discussion is about what lead to the D, but as you are at that point, is this something you want to discuss?

You asked originally if any separated couples find their way back. I think the answer is yes, but I'm willing to be that the percentage is pretty low. it's not impossible, but don't put too much hope in it, i'd hate for you to have to deal with another disappointment.

You seem to be focusing on healing yourself, that is good. How are your kids taking it? I would imagine at their age, they know something is going on.

Good luck on your healing and moving forward. Focus on your future and not the past.

Westway posted 8/14/2020 10:55 AM

Bewuzzled in reading your story, you say that one of the issues with your marriage leading up to your PA was that your BH had receded from the marriage.

Have you stopped to consider that your BH has just never loved you to the same extent that you love him? It sounds like there has always been a disparity.. and inequality in the mutual love for each other. Maybe this is his way of saying "I can't live a lie anymore." It is not a bad reflection on you. It sounds like you did what you could to become a safe wife again, but I would tender the argument that the marriage was going down the drain before you had your affair, and that the last ten years has been just a delay of that ending.

bewuzzled posted 8/14/2020 20:38 PM

bewuzzled, I'm wondering what you are looking for. Are we helping you?

More than you'll ever know, yes

You seem to be focusing on healing yourself, that is good. How are your kids taking it? I would imagine at their age, they know something is going on.

I'm trying. Really easy to lose focus on that, It's a constant struggle.
the kids seem ok, DD was more upset than DS. They know their father and I aren't happy together right now and that we've separated to get some space and time apart. They don't know about the A 10 years ago or the threesome, breakup and subsequent issues. they basically know vague generalities and that's it. At 20 and 18, they are entirely focused on themselves, as that age group generally is.

I would tender the argument that the marriage was going down the drain before you had your affair, and that the last ten years has been just a delay of that ending.

You may be right, when I read what you wrote I felt a little sick to my stomach. Maybe it's been over the whole 10 years, but neither of us realized it ( or admitted it) until March, when breaking up with the GF was basically the last straw for him.