SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Maybe it helps somebody:

Background:

My XW and I got married after being together for many years. Our families used to be pretty close and we knew each other since early childhood. This was in fact one of the reasons why I decided to marry her (I literally trusted her with my life), although we were not entirely compatible in many regards. I supported her through college and passed on many promising professional opportunities in order to be there for her when things were not easy. Never mentioned it. I had a very pragmatic approach: I thought it would be easier to help her than suffer the consequences. In hindsight, I realize that it must have made her furious. A few months prior to our wedding, she met a guy (who seemed like a good catch but turned out the opposite) and they started having a LTA. It went on for about two years behind my back. Nothing changed in our relationship. Her lies were incredibly well-engineered. One time, she told me she was going to the funeral of her stepfather (divorced from mom), who died in a terrible accident. The stepfather was real, the funeral was real, only she didn’t attend and went to Cancun (of all places...) with her AP instead. While in Mexico, she sent me photos of an unrelated funeral. As her mother was not on speaking terms with her XH’s family and nobody else from our crowd attended the funeral, she could pull it off. She also joined a women's club. She attended 10 meetings, got her name and photo on the website, even accepted a position in the organization, and made me drive her to the meetings. You've guessed it: All because she wanted an excuse to have evening dates. She stopped attending altogether after those 10 meetings. She had it planned from the beginning. I only found out about the A after seeing a doctor (STD, yay ). My first reaction was to R, but she kept seeing the guy, which is why I NC’d her four months after D-day. As for the R: I was simply overwhelmed. Our lives were so intertwined that I had no idea how to D.

What I learned:

1) I still believe that you should ask all the questions and get all the answers if you are in the process of R. HOWEVER: If D seems likely, do NOT go down that rabbit hole. Just go straight for D. What I discovered was some really sick stuff. If a grown, single man intrudes into a marriage and is willing to "share" the woman with her H and is not pushing for her to leave her H, chances are the guy is a sicko. Most probably he will be into stuff he's not getting anywhere else, otherwise it's simply not worth the effort and the risk. It turned out the guy was infatuated with me, not so much with my XW. I don’t want to go into too much detail, but what they did for sex was as nasty as it gets (general area: humiliation, incest and rape play, also involving beach pictures of my sister's children). I have no idea why she joined him, but it was a gradual process. Karma hit both her and the AP relatively hard, but it doesn't give me much joy. I can't quite put the finger on it... mostly, I feel disappointed for spending so much time with a person so tremendously stupid and mean.

2) Run. I deeply regret the months I waisted for R. My X disrespected and hurt me in ways I still can’t fully comprehend. The STD (which she knew about btw; get this: her reasoning was that she wanted to share his infection so they could be in the same boat; my health was not considered even for a second) was one thing, but all the little victories she was enjoying, i.e. all the lies she got away with, are simply disgusting. A person who does this to you is aiming for your life. Run.

3) Generally: Don’t get married in hopes of saving your relationship. I now know that my X was very unhappy with our life. She thought that by some miracle getting married would change everything, and I thought making an honest woman out of her would put an end to her frustration.

4) Listen to your gut.

5) Assume the worst. I made a list of my three biggest fears and all of them came true.

6) I completely underestimated the A’s impact on my life. The first weeks after D-Day (January 2018) were really, really tough. Tickle truth while discovering 90% on my own, etc. After you go public, you’ll find that everybody is understanding and feeling sorry for you. It feels good and comforting. As time passes, people, especially employers, become less and less compassionate. Now I find myself job-hopping, I don’t feel as resilient as I used to be and my short-term memory is a mess. I used to be a very efficient and diligent worker, today I am not. I started seeing a therapist in the very beginning, when I was, well, suicidal. IC didn't help with the concentration issues. I don’t have any advice on how to deal with the long-term effects of trauma (anybody?), but time probably heals all wounds. What helps in the beginning: Don’t be alone, reach out to your friends, take some time off work and go see a therapist.

7) Get in shape and start dating. I didn’t end up with any of the ladies I met in the beginning, but dating helped me realize that I am not a lost case.

8) When I met my now-fiancée, I immediately knew that she was the one I was looking for all my life. She helped me more than any therapist could have. Hence, my last advice: Don’t ruin it. Don’t assume all women are alike. Always be honest and true to yourself. Give happiness a chance.

[This message edited by knowingmystance at 8:05 AM, June 23rd (Tuesday)]

Great post knowingmystance. I am glad you are moving into a healthy new relationship.

Your statement that “A person who does this to you is aiming for your life” really resonated. That is one of the reasons that I did not consider R for one moment.

Thank you, Shockedmom, and well done for being so brave and decisive when it counted!!! It's funny: I came across the forum prior to the events and still didn't know better after D-Day

excellent advice and post

Thank you for sharing. And congrats on the fiancée.

Your insight is Invaluable. Too bad we have to learn things the hard way. Your XW is deplorable. Wonder why she married you if she was “unhappy”. She sounds mentally ill and sounds like it was a revenge affair against you for her imagined suffering. Too bad honesty is not in her DNA

This was heart wrenching to read. You know, I don't know if anyone is entirely good or entirely evil. Yet, when I read about partners that deliberately choose courses of action that are designed to be painful, humiliating, and cause long lasting pain to their spouses, and furthermore know they are actions WILL cause such pain, I have to wonder if that isn't truly evil. All of what she did was a choice-- a choice where she had to know the consequences would be devastating. Yet, she chose it anyway. That's about as messed up as it gets. I am only relieved-- at three years distance, that my XW, although selfish and narcissistic, was not like this. I don't know if my ego could have survived that level of shattering.

So I congratulate you, kind Internet stranger, for your perseverance, your believe in yourself, and the simple fact you're alive and telling us this today. I know that level of misery. I'm very happy for you that you pulled through at the far end.

Man, there's SO many questions I'd ask for clarification, but hey, I sense you you want to be discrete here. Thanks for sharing. If you ever need to get something off your chest, we're here for you.

KMS,

You wrote, If a grown, single man intrudes into a marriage and is willing to "share" the woman with her H and is not pushing for her to leave her H, chances are the guy is a sicko. Most probably he will be into stuff he's not getting anywhere else, otherwise it's simply not worth the effort and the risk. It turned out the guy was infatuated with me, not so much with my XW. I don’t...sex was as nasty as it gets (general area: humiliation, incest and rape play, also involving beach pictures of my sister's children).

The beach pictures thing is very worrying, did you inform your sister to keep an eye out for this guy. You might want to look him up as a sex offender.

There is a category of OM who are into humiliating and degrading women, and doing everything they can to destroy their lives. I should wonder if it's not a hatred of women and an attraction to men/the husband sort of issue.

Almost like they are punishing them for not being as perfect as their Mothers or trying to make them their Mothers if they had depraved Mothers.

I would guess the OM wanted to know everything about your life and constantly ran you down to your WW.

Hi Rex Nihilo,

ou know, I don't know if anyone is entirely good or entirely evil. Yet, when I read about partners that deliberately choose courses of action that are designed to be painful, humiliating, and cause long lasting pain to their spouses, and furthermore know they are actions WILL cause such pain, I have to wonder if that isn't truly evil.

Trust me - if that is not evil I am not sure what evil even is. While it is not the greatest evil in the world, it is a great evil to the victims...

Thank you all for your replies!

I'll respond to all of you, but it will take some minutes.

@The1stWife

Regarding the mental illness:

My therapist was very careful, but pointed out that behavior such as this is tipical for borderline personality disorder (BPD).

I thought long and hard about this and came to the conclusion, that she simply wanted to trade up and it didn't work out the way she wanted. When she met the guy, I was just starting a new business. He did not have an own business, but held a low-level management position in a larger enterprise. She didn't really like college and always gave me the feeling that I was forcing it on her (imagine). I worked my ass off to make it happen and assumed she would repay me by having my back after founding an own business. However, she had no intention of doing so and rather went for it when the guy in the suit asked her out. Quite ridiculous, because the upside potential in my trade was way higher. He has some family money, but frankly, I couldn't care less. Anyway. I think, in a way, she wanted to trick him into marrying her and he was simply very successful in dodging her and getting what he wanted anyway as she became more and more desperate and suffered from loss aversion (she already went so far, so why stop). In her perception, she was once successful in getting me to marry her as well, but - having a shitty character - simply couldn't grasp the notion that I did did marry her out of loyalty and affection.

Regarding all the disgusting stuff: Never before was sexual perversion so embraced as today. It's a slippery slope. She herself compared some of the very degenerate stuff they did - which I wouldn't even consider sexual at all - to giving hand jobs. She said she wouldn't orgasm from both, so why bother differentiating. The other things were his innocent phantasies and she would help him fulfilling them as a kind lover. You get the idea.

So long story short: No BPD, just a terrible character.

[This message edited by knowingmystance at 10:16 AM, June 23rd (Tuesday)]

@KingofNothing

All of what she did was a choice-- a choice where she had to know the consequences would be devastating. Yet, she chose it anyway.

My words exactly.

Man, there's SO many questions I'd ask for clarification

Shoot, I'll answer if I can.

@survrus

Pretty accurate. Was scared at first.

Sister knows, and yeah, your assumptions are not far from the truth. As I said, I went way too deep into the rabbit hole. Hence my advice.

@KingofNothing and NeverTwice

The level of evil shocked me as well, but the sheer idiocy outshines it.

[This message edited by knowingmystance at 10:25 AM, June 23rd (Tuesday)]

You make a lot of important points.

1) I still believe that you should ask all the questions and get all the answers if you are in the process of R. HOWEVER: If D seems likely, do NOT go down that rabbit hole.

I agree - if you choose D, it's best to minimize communications with STBXWS. That's a good way of being kind to yourself.

2) Run. I deeply regret the months I waisted for R.

I'm not sure what you mean here. If R is on the table, why run?

3) Generally: Don’t get married in hopes of saving your relationship.

Are you my son? That's why he got married....

4) Listen to your gut.

Amen.

5) Assume the worst. I made a list of my three biggest fears and all of them came true.

I'm not sure I agree with this. For a lot of us, the A is nowhere near as bad as we feared, at least that's what people have written here. If R is a possibility, I think the BS needs to ask the really scary questions to make sure there's no deal killer lurking in the details. If there's a deal killer, I recommend finding it as early as possible so you don't waste time trying to R, only to find out you've wasted years.

6) I completely underestimated the A’s impact on my life.

I'm really sorry it hit you so hard. It looks like you're finding your way now.

I think we all underestimate the impact of being betrayed. I hope your comment here will help someone underestimate it less, or maybe not underestimate it at all.

7) Get in shape and start dating.

Exercise helps a person recover from being betrayed. Dating? If you're sure you'll D, when you're ready.

8) When I met my now-fiancée, I immediately knew that she was the one I was looking for all my life. She helped me more than any therapist could have. Hence, my last advice: Don’t ruin it. Don’t assume all women are alike. Always be honest and true to yourself. Give happiness a chance.

Again, I agree. I'd add that there are different kinds of help. Friends (like your fiancee) can give one kind of help. Therapists give another. Groups like SI give yet another. Even though you may get different counsel from different types of helpers, awareness of more options is better than fewer options, IMO.

Your advice to give happiness a chance is right on. A BS really can survive and thrive after being betrayed.

Again, I'm very sorry your W and om were so evil. You've done a great job recovering.

[This message edited by sisoon at 10:12 AM, June 23rd (Tuesday)]

@sisoon

I'm not sure what you mean here. If R is on the table, why run?

I agree with those on SI who are saying don't rush R. The time I spent trying to R was the worst in my life as some of the nastiest things happened during those months. We are not talking about a situation with children to support and also not about a drunken ONS and a W doing everything to R (she acted very cliché, it's not even worth writing about).

Are you my son? That's why he got married....

Oh my, hope it works out.

I'm not sure I agree with this. For a lot of us, the A is nowhere near as bad as we feared, at least that's what people have written here. If R is a possibility, I think the BS needs to ask the really scary questions to make sure there's no deal killer lurking in the details. If there's a deal killer, I recommend finding it as early as possible so you don't waste time trying to R, only to find out you've wasted years.

I agree 100%. My biggest fears were the deal killers and all of them came to light. I just wish I had listened to my gut and split before finding out the nasty parts. I had a hunch that he was a perv as soon as I realized that the guy had absolutely no problem with me having sex with her and the extent of the deceit. Should have stopped project R right there.

I'm really sorry it hit you so hard. It looks like you're finding your way now.

As I said, I could be better, but could be a lot worse or dead as well. I am wondering how others do it. I think the answer is not so much therapy as coaching. Does anybody know were to begin? I need to tackle my concentration and short-term memory issues.

If you're sure you'll D, when you're ready.

Agree, also with your other statements.

[This message edited by knowingmystance at 10:48 AM, June 23rd (Tuesday)]

IC didn't help with the concentration issues. I don’t have any advice on how to deal with the long-term effects of trauma (anybody?), but time probably heals all wounds. What helps in the beginning: Don’t be alone, reach out to your friends, take some time off work and go see a therapist.

I have read that this EDMR therapy does wonders for people who have suffered trauma. This therapy might help you get back some of what you lost. Look it up.

knowingmystance:

Shoot, I'll answer if I can

Okay, I feel like Columbo now.. "One more thing..." Just a few points I was wondering about.

Never mentioned it. I had a very pragmatic approach: I thought it would be easier to help her than suffer the consequences. In hindsight, I realize that it must have made her furious.

I'm trying to parse this. You say she was furious because you helped her finish college? In what warped calculus did she come up with this one?

A few months prior to our wedding, she met a guy (who seemed like a good catch but turned out the opposite) and they started having a LTA. It went on for about two years behind my back.

So, to be clear, the affair officially was over when you discovered you had an STD? Or before that? At some point, she appears to be realizing that her "big catch" wasn't really going to be caught by her.

Speaking of the STD:

The STD (which she knew about btw; get this: her reasoning was that she wanted to share his infection so they could be in the same boat; my health was not considered even for a second)

Wow! That is a quote that stays with you. Okay. Lots to unwrap there. You are saying she knew about his STD and willingly exposed it to herself for... what reason? So they didn't have to use condoms or something? She was willing to put up with a risk to her health, maybe a permanent risk, for this guy? On PURPOSE? Clearly she didn't care at all about YOUR health, did she ever address that fact in so many words? Was it an STD that stays with you forever? (I mean to say, I already consider this person you describe as borderline evil... this is moustache twirling, mega bad guy evil stuff).

If a grown, single man intrudes into a marriage and is willing to "share" the woman with her H and is not pushing for her to leave her H, chances are the guy is a sicko. Most probably he will be into stuff he's not getting anywhere else, otherwise it's simply not worth the effort and the risk.

I don't think that's a universal statement, although it seems appropriate here. My XW wasn't interested in long term relationships, she just wanted an "open relationship" and didn't bother consulting me about it. She could have cared less about what they wanted long term. In the end, the fact that all they wanted was a piece of ass was by inference, okay by her. I think that kind of cheater is fairly common, of either sex.

It turned out the guy was infatuated with me, not so much with my XW. I don’t want to go into too much detail, but what they did for sex was as nasty as it gets

Okay, there's another quote that is hard to ignore. He was infatuated with you how? Sexually? This seems like an odd tangent. Did you figure into his fantasies in some symbolic way, as a "cuckold" fantasy (I hate that phrase) or was it something more twisted psychologically? I am no authority on "lifestyle" activities and tend to defer to the people on here that are more knowledgeable than I. I'm not completely ignorant, however, and I don't need a fainting couch when someone spells something out for me. Did this "thing" involve inflicting pain, or was it degrading in other ways, as in making your wife into a submissive? "As nasty as it gets" is sadly a pretty elastic concept in this day and age.

Damn, that sentence about beach pictures and your sister's family really bugs me. I hope you've taken some steps.

I now know that my X was very unhappy with our life. She thought that by some miracle getting married would change everything, and I thought making an honest woman out of her would put an end to her frustration.

So how long were you dating before you got married? Why didn't she just call off the marriage, especially since she was deeply embroiled with another guy at the time? Has she admitted any of that? It seems cruel of her to marry you in any capacity. She should have said no, it would have been kinder. I realize Kindness isn't her thing.

I'm sorry this went long. Yeah, there was a lot to parse there. Do you ever hear any reports about how she is doing now? I know you say "Karma hit them hard" but there are no details. I don't normally indulge in schadenfreude but in this case I'll make an exception. Dayum.

Anyway, glad you are on the mend. I ABSOLUTELY understand what you mean by loss of concentration, and your troubles having a "Shelf Life" for everyone around you, including employers. I had to change jobs myself. You get it back. I found meditation helps, and diving feet first in meticulous little hobbies like painting miniatures. You'll get there. Best of luck.

I'm trying to parse this. You say she was furious because you helped her finish college? In what warped calculus did she come up with this one?

She was practically not equipped to live in modern society. She appeared not to be able to use a PC except for Netflix and online shopping, and didn't even see the problem with that. I am not exaggerating. She also had little to no work experience. One time she was working on a trial basis in a restaurant, they asked her not to come the next day. Apparently she refused to be taught how to serve the food and beverages and even had an attitude. There were so many ridiculous things. I mistook this for independent-mindedness. In reality, she wasn't that incompetent, she just liked acting this way for whatever reason. Some of the things she did in order to conceal her A were the acts of a criminal mastermind. I on the other hand always performed well. So I started helping her with literally everything. I didn't mind. Young arrogant me thought I got dealt the better hand in life and thought she needed a boost from me but would thrive later on. In hindsight, I think she brought home problems on purpose because she desperately wanted to see me fail, because she couldn't stand that I was constantly helping her with everything. She accepted the help though.

So, to be clear, the affair officially was over when you discovered you had an STD? Or before that? At some point, she appears to be realizing that her "big catch" wasn't really going to be caught by her.

No, it was a couple of months prior to D-Day. I don't want to be too precise as you never know who's reading. I even argued with the doctors; I went to three separate specialists to validate the diagnosis. I thought I got the infection on a public bathroom and spent entire weekends on the internet trying to find validation. It was so embarrassing. I believe she provoked the ultimate D-Day because she wanted her AP to make his intentions clear.

Okay, there's another quote that is hard to ignore. He was infatuated with you how? Sexually? This seems like an odd tangent. Did you figure into his fantasies in some symbolic way, as a "cuckold" fantasy (I hate that phrase) or was it something more twisted psychologically? I am no authority on "lifestyle" activities and tend to defer to the people on here that are more knowledgeable than I. I'm not completely ignorant, however, and I don't need a fainting couch when someone spells something out for me. Did this "thing" involve inflicting pain, or was it degrading in other ways, as in making your wife into a submissive? "As nasty as it gets" is sadly a pretty elastic concept in this day and age.

Damn, that sentence about beach pictures and your sister's family really bugs me. I hope you've taken some steps.

He had something of a boy's crush first. It didn't help that my XW knew no boundaries and shared information about our life with all kinds of people.

Survrus came quite close:

There is a category of OM who are into humiliating and degrading women, and doing everything they can to destroy their lives. I should wonder if it's not a hatred of women and an attraction to men/the husband sort of issue.

Let's say he is sexually attracted to what he saw on the beach pictures, prefers to be bottom in the homosexual meaning of the word and fears but also despises women. He is both into inflicting and receiving pain. He suffered sexual abuse as a child, it's pretty much a textbook case.

Everything is taken care of by the way and - surprise - police had a file on him already. Edit: Who am I protecting again? He got convicted in the meantime as they looked into him again after we reported him. They found child pornography in his apartment. He sought out women who could give him access to kids already in the past. He produced suggestive videos of the children, but apparently didn't abuse them (a predator in the making). He also shared the material with others. She was charged with tampering with evidence, which was not easy for me to swallow. It's not such a great experience to find out you spent more than a decade with somebody capable of helping a pedophile. It would probably be worse for my self-esteem if he had turned out to be a great guy, but it was all so hard to process. I feel sorry for her, although she really is despicable.

So how long were you dating before you got married? Why didn't she just call off the marriage, especially since she was deeply embroiled with another guy at the time? Has she admitted any of that? It seems cruel of her to marry you in any capacity. She should have said no, it would have been kinder. I realize Kindness isn't her thing.

Almost a decade. She never came clean 100%, but they were sexting heavily already a month prior to the wedding. I honestly have no idea what went on inside her head. She made up all kinds of bullshit. I think the guy simply didn't commit and I would have been the backup.

Do you ever hear any reports about how she is doing now? I know you say "Karma hit them hard" but there are no details. I don't normally indulge in schadenfreude but in this case I'll make an exception. Dayum.

She stalked me and I had to apply for a restraining order. Unfortunately, I can't disclose much regarding the karma part, but it has something to do with the beach pictures. My sister is a lioness.

Edit: see above.

Anyway, glad you are on the mend. I ABSOLUTELY understand what you mean by loss of concentration, and your troubles having a "Shelf Life" for everyone around you, including employers. I had to change jobs myself. You get it back. I found meditation helps, and diving feet first in meticulous little hobbies like painting miniatures. You'll get there. Best of luck.

Thank you so much!!! Your words give me hope. I'll keep you posted . Do you have tips on meditating? Never tried.

Edited a few things.

[This message edited by knowingmystance at 12:29 AM, June 24th (Wednesday)]

Well done and good luck to your future

Buffer

Good grief, I’m glad you aren’t with that sociopathic woman anymore.

Although I discovered a number of horrifying things that my ex was up to behind my back, it didn’t reach the depraved level of your ex. However, I did make the determination that after the separation agreement was signed, I didn’t want to continue to try to figure out more of my farce of a husband was up to during our marriage. I did hire a PI and did some of my own digging post-DDay, but that was primarily to help me gather evidence in the event we ended up in the courts. Luckily, we settled without having to go before a judge, but there were a few moments in the process I thought my ex was going to force that route.

I’m glad to know not more than I already do about the man I married. I am certain I gathered only the tip of a very ugly iceberg.

Glad to hear your life is better now.

I'll keep you posted . Do you have tips on meditating? Never tried.

You have every reason to hope. Getting out of a relationship like this one is like having experienced combat stress.. PTSD from emotional trauma is a very real thing, it has long last effects.. but not permanent effects. You really can change-- the trick is to move away from the anger and hostility. Believe me, I let anger dominate my life for a while, and I didn't like that version of me at all. I had to make changes or I'd end up getting very sick. My blood pressure is only now getting back to normal.

As for the meditation, I am somewhat blessed to have two active Buddhist temples very close to me. I took their free "introduction to meditation" class. It took a while to get "outside of my head" and to take a critical look at my anger and distraction in life. They taught me some simple coping skills that have become invaluable for seeking inner calm. I was also blessed with ADHD (I think) so I have a mind that is always racing from one thing to the next.. that's not a great state to be in when healing from an affair. However, I found a way through that as well. It's not perfect. Nothing ever is-- but I'm not triggered any more, well hardly ever. Also, I recommend the CALM app when you go to sleep. It will make the nightmares go away.

[This message edited by KingofNothing at 2:55 AM, June 24th (Wednesday)]

I agree with the earlier recommendation to look into EMDR.

Thanks to all of you for your kind words!

To reflect on some of your inputs:

Luckily, we settled without having to go before a judge, but there were a few moments in the process I thought my ex was going to force that route.

Similar story here. I practically had to buy my way into freedom. She got quite a good deal and didn't even show the slightest bit of gratitude. Made for a great "last" impression.

You really can change-- the trick is to move away from the anger and hostility.

It's weird, I don't feel anger per se. I am pretty much indifferent regarding the guy as it was her who was supposed to protect me. Everyone knows there are predators out there, you just don't invite them to your house (and your bedroom). I am deeply disappointed in her, but the fact that my life is great now and I got out of a mentally abusive relationship alive made the initial anger fade away. My fiancée knows the entire story including my motivation to stay with my X although it was unbearable at times. She once said there wasn't any other way I would have gotten out of that relationship alive. It's harsh, but it puts things into perspective. I would recommend other BSs to think about that.

It makes me sick to my stomach though that she kept my name after D. I have a "wonderful" friend who told me it's the risk you're taking when you marry someone, but I didn't sign up for this mess. It's a major trigger. Any advice?

I was also blessed with ADHD (I think) so I have a mind that is always racing from one thing to the next

I knew children with ADHD. I never felt similar to them. However, I know about the racing mind thing and had medication prescribed. I tried it only once. It really helped me focus, but at the same time I had no inspiration and felt no emotions.

Also, I recommend the CALM app when you go to sleep. It will make the nightmares go away.

Thanks for the recommendation! I downloaded it and will try it over the weekend.

Buddhist temples

Sounds great. Will need to look into this.

I agree with the earlier recommendation to look into EMDR.

Didn't know about it, but looked into it. Sounds to me like retraumatization. Not sure I want that. Does anyone have first-hand experience?

[This message edited by knowingmystance at 3:55 AM, June 25th (Thursday)]