SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I am going to preface this with saying I'm not a parent...

My mom was married twice after she and my dad split. And dated a few others. Very few of whom liked her kids. And for years these asshats were more important. That does long-term harm IMHO. I'm 38 and just in the last few years have mom and I really dealt with the effects of all that. And don't think for a second that the ripples of that didn't flow through my marriage either, because they certainly did. I have a lot of work to do unpacking all that.

If I were in your situation? This would be a deal-breaker 1000%. Kids and their parents are a package deal. Nevermind the frankly disturbing levels of manipulation, pettiness, and immaturity this exhibits on his part. I'm sorry - this sounds like such a tough spot for you to be in.

Just my 0.02.

Dammit, Nekorb, I hate this for you. I realize at our age people get pretty set in their ways. It feels like he was warning you against creating "drama" so that he doesn't have to face even a conversation that might be difficult. That sucks. My so is what I call a Hard Ass. I mean it in the best of ways but I can see where it could or will cause similar issues in the future.

I wonder if there's a way to approach it from a different angle. That is, the angle of your kids being a part of you and that you want him to love and cherish those extensions of you. Not support them, not to do anything for them but just to see the beauty that is the people they are. I'm thinking though that he doesn't seem to feel a huge sense of that for his own kids.

I don't know what his kids are like but could he feel a bit of envy that your kids are thriving? Are his? Maybe he wishes his son(s) were more like yours? IDK, just grasping here.

Finally at a computer so I can reply without pecking out a response on my phone!!

I'm trying not to view these things in isolation. If we had to make a pie chart of these things that I have issues about and all of the things that I love and are good about G5, it's probably a 96% good 4% this BS chart.

That said, this is a very important 4%.

My BFF suggested that perhaps he doesn't really grasp how much this is hurting me. I'm wondering if my expectations aren't clear - I don't expect him to parent my adult children - they have a dad. I do expect him to care about them on a basic, human level as he would any person. Perhaps he has had people trample his boundaries before and therefore needs to set boundaries with razor edges on them. Maybe it's fear of being hurt or rejected.

I'm trying to reconcile this 4% with the other 96%, because they just don't jive together.

I feel like I need to gently remind him I am not his ex, and I'm not trying to start something with him for the sake of arguing, but I need to be able to talk to him if something is bothering me about the relationship. Not fight about it. Talk about it. Compromise. Understand what each person needs and work it out.

I like Ellie's comment about me and the kids being a package deal, and hardtimes' comment about him caring for the kids as extensions of me. That would actually be an easy one - if I say my wrist has been bothering me, he will hold it under the warm water when we are in the shower, and wil massage it for me with no prompting from me, because he knows it hurts.

I think I also need to clarify what his expectations are about future living arrangements and where those would be (state A, state B, etc). I'm not sure we are on the same page there, and maybe that's HIS 4%?

I'm going to try to approach it as both of us honestly evaluating whether or not the other is a good life partner for them. Emphasizing that I am looking for a life partner, not a fling, or someone just to tackle the fun parts of life with. I'm talking for better or for worse.

For an UPDATE, I talked with him for about two hours on the phone tonight while he was driving. He asked if I had any news from/about my kids, then gave me an update on his. This week I found out my SIL has cancer. She lives in a state we are planning to vacay to this summer, and we hadn't decided yet if we were going to try to see them, as they were not exactly close to where we are going. He asked if her diagnosis has changed my thoughts on whether or not we see them. I said we definitely do. He agreed and also agreed that we would drive all the way to them instead of suggesting we meet in the middle (pre-cancer diagnosis thoughts).

So, those are positives, I think. It does not mean there are not things that need to be addressed by any stretch of the imagination. It also does not mean everything is hunky dory and everything I've posted up to this point didn't happen. It also doesn't mean that things still won't end. Who knows, maybe he will end it.

I think these issues have suddenly come into glaring view for me (aka the feelings that prompted this conversation with him to begin with), because I really feel like I'm at that point where I'm either out or I'm ALL IN. I can't go all in with someone that isn't on the same page with me, and neither should he. I also want to make sure I'm not the only one going all in. I don't believe he would ever hurt me on purpose, and I need to tell him that he is going to hurt me if he isn't committed, or at least has the desire to commit (if he isn't there yet), on the same level.

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts and am open to more! I hear you saying this could absolutely be a deal breaker, and that is my concern as well. I'm trying not to be hasty. I want to have a conversation about it when things are relaxed.

and well, dammit I just texted him and asked him to finish the sentence "I need" and he replied "you". This is the man I want my kids to know.

Idk, it sounds like he’s got an idea in his mind of how things are gonna be. And he’s happy bc that’s how it’s been so far.

I think it’s extremely strange he doesn’t want you around his son, and that he talks about his OWN SON in such a derogatory way, (calling him his daughter) and in front of his girlfriend and her children, no less.,Kinda like when I joined SI someone said “when you have to start explaining the basic way of how to treat people, you know there’s a problem”.

I kinda wonder if the “real” him is showing thru? Don’t they say on SI that 2 years is about how long they can keep a mask on if it’s fake? Does he have any long time friends? Do they think he’s a really good guy, after knowing him for years?

When you have some time, maybe honestly make a list of every questionable thing he’s ever said/done. Are these things you would do /say?

But then again I could be wrong, I’ve not dated anyone with grown kids. But now that I think about it, it would be wierd if they didn’t want me to get to know their son.

I could be off track

[This message edited by homewrecked2011 at 1:38 AM, February 8th (Saturday)]

I haven't read everything here, nekorb, so this may be off base.

I agree that the family is a package deal. I don't think it needs to be like a real actual parent but needs to be cordial. With grown children you don't see them everyday so unless there is outright antagonism what is so difficult.

The idea of there being different bubbles is concerning. I do think there are circles around one where only certain people are allowed in. Some have bigger circles and others tighter circles. My circle is pretty tight. Not many allowed in. But the circles or attachments can and should overlap. The fact it seems from your description that they are not allowed to touch is off putting.

The biggest concern, though, is the unease you have with having open, transparent conversation with him about how you feel about what is going on. The conversation could/should include all of the issues and what potential solutions there could be working together on it. The fear of the reaction with him is a disconcerting to me.

Steadychevy - it’s disconcerting to me as well.

One comment he made was, “this brought up bad memories and I’m not doing that BS again.” I know he is referring to the years of conflict with his ex. I feel like he started responding to me as he would his ex, vs this is this first real issue we’ve had in almost 3.5 years.

Do y’all think I even broach the topic of some of these things being deal breakers? Or just how the convo goes? I’m leaning toward see how the convo goes. I don’t want him to feel defensive, I want the conversation to be constructive.

It doesn't so much concern me that he has an issue/issues with your kids, but that he a) won't try to fix them and b) doesn't want you to talk to them about it either. Also is weird that he doesn't want his son to get to know you.

Take it with a grain of salt, cus my fam is close, but that would weird me out.

If this is the first real conflict you've had, then I kinda see his reaction as red flaggy. You have a problem, you want to discuss, and he immediately says the "this is reminding me of my x" line. Therefore shutting you down sort of. And not really seeming open to discussion on it. That's got my hackles up. Mostly just because it reminds me of my x (oh the irony) - who was so glad I wasn't "crazy" like his xw. But when he slept with the 18yo and I had an issue about it, all of a sudden I was "reminding him of his x". Just food for thought.

Yeah, and I think I’m going to start there.

I think he has *no clue* that he has upset me to this extent, and I think that will bother him. Which would be a good thing because it means he loves me and I matter to him, and perhaps the relationship is important enough to him that he will listen and be open to a conversation.

If not, then I guess that’s my answer. I am literally nauseated thinking about it. I have felt like shit all week because of it. I haven’t slept. I’ve been distracted at work. I can’t do this for another week.

My fingers are crossed for you for a happy outcome Nekorb!! Hopefully this is just a case of miscommunication and nothing more.

Hopefully, Ellie.

I’m drawing on all of my years of therapy and improved relationship skills. Lol

Don’t vilify the person. Don’t neglect the positive things. Be kind. Be loving. Shut your mouth and listen. There is plenty of time for everyone to talk. Be willing to look at your own contribution to the issue. Be willing to alter your behavior. (Providing it isn’t going against core values, etc) Stay on topic.

I know I’m forgetting some.

G5 will be here later. I plan to talk to him about my concerns. I haven’t let on that there is an issue or said there was anything to talk about.

Ironically, the first time I ever gave him a heads up and then didn’t want to discuss it over the phone I was told I was playing games.

I feel like I’m in a lose-lose situation on this one. But, I’m going to say a prayer and hope that he responds in a completely appropriate and caring fashion.

I hope it goes well for you, nekorb. However, any clarity you get, good or bad, will be positive for you, IMO.

Steady - I agree.

I simply can’t put myself in another position where my concerns about the relationship are not to be voiced, and if they are will be written off as “my problem”.

When our relationship started I voiced that it was important to me that we be able to discuss and resolve conflicts, and he agreed. I’m not sure if last weekend was just a knee jerk reaction (that will need to be tempered in the future).

I am desperately hoping that he has no idea how his words were perceived. Both to me and in front of the kids.

I’m so nauseated and anxious right now. He will be here in a few hours. My feeling is that I’m going to be in “trouble”, and I hate that. I shouldn’t have to, and won’t, tolerate that.

He really sounds like a great guy. A great guy with a few flaws. Like all of us. I mean, don't we all come into relationships with a bit of baggage that isn't going to 100% mesh with another? Communication styles differ and when we've spent years in dysfunction it seems unrealistic that those old tapes aren't going to play occasionally. I'm an eternal optimist so read this with that in mind but I think there has to be a workaround here. Hoping the best for today.

hardtimes, I do agree with what you said and you are very right. Everyone does come with some baggage. But for those of that have been on the receiving end of the shit-slinging, I think it is in some ways easier for those old tapes to start up again you know? All the more important reason to make sure to break those cycles asap if they start. That's what I am working through in my therapy anyways - and why I do not inted to date anytime soon

nekorb - how did it go?

UPDATE:

Ended up talking about everything on the phone, as he had picked up over the course of the week that something was bothering me (he travels for work and we don’t see each other during the week). He wanted to make sure he should still come today, and this launched the years and the conversation.

Thankfully, a good outcome.

He was indeed oblivious to the fact that what he thought were moments of “grumpy old man” humor were being perceived as serious comments.

We also both acknowledged that last weekend we both reverted to old patterns of dysfunction we had with our ex spouses during times of conflict.

I was very clear about what my expectations and needs are about what our family will look like in the future. Stated my kids and me are a package deal and if he loves me he loves my kids. Maybe doesn’t like them, but needs to care about them because I care about them.

I specifically gave the example that if he called me in the middle of the night this week and said his son’s life has imploded and he needs help, but G5 couldn’t be there for another ten hours, I would get my keys and be on my way to him. His response was,”Well honey, do you think I wouldn’t do that for oldest DD?”. And I said, “I really don’t know, because “kids are a pain in the ass”.”. I think that really opened his eyes to how things were coming across.

Had a really good talk. Talked about the feeling I had that there was an unspoken ultimatum that he really isn’t going to tolerate any objections or discussions about future issues. He said not the case at all - and the fact that he spent two hours on the phone with me having this hard conversation was evidence of that.

He’ll be here in a couple of hours. Will feel better after seeing him in person, but all is well.

Thank you for the insights and support everyone. I knew y’all would have insight and be able to share your experiences of how your families blended/what that looks like.

(((SI peeps)))

Nekorb

Couple thoughts and a question from a male's perspective.

Q: What does "G5" mean?

Thoughts

1. I would be very wary of your BFF's response as the framing of the issue is from you only.

2. Were you present for all interactions between G5 and your children.

3. You seem very defensive when it comes to your children. Understandable but not realistic.

4. It is a no win situation for your SO if he is uncomfortable with your children.

5. This is incredibly emotionally complex for all parties involved. What you think and want isn't necessarily the reality for everyone.

I may be way off base but just some things to consider.

Thanks for the update. So glad it went well

Glad you guys were able to talk and clear the air. Hope things continue to progress and you have more open conversations. Any upcoming plans that include the kids? I think that will be very telling as to if his words match his actions.

Well honey, do you think I wouldn’t do that for oldest DD?

So he would only help that one child? What if your other children needed help?

Sorry but I'm not seeing why this was reassuring to you.