SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I couldn't let people know that my uncle sexual abused me,

Does your husband know about this abuse?

Does the AP know about this abuse?

Yes, my husband knows about the abuse. I told him very early on in our relationship.

I never told the AP that.

I want so bad for him to want to try to work on us. I want so bad for him to have a thought that we possibly could rebuild our relationship. I want so bad, but I know none of it is my choice. I made a horrific choice that has led to the fate of future together resting on my husband's shoulders.

But it was all your choice... choices (plural) actually, wasn't it? You knew this was a possible (even likely) consequence of your actions, but you chose them anyway. Own it. Take responsibility for it.

You say you want to rebuild your relationship with your BH - but how much are you willing to give up, and how far are you willing to go to win him back?

Even divorce doesn't have to be the end. There are some here who have divorced after an affair, and then gotten remarried.

Reconciliation IS possible, but it's not easy, in fact it will be the hardest thing you ever do, and even if you attempt it and your BH gives you that chance, you may fail. How much are you willing to give, and how much are you willing to give up to win him back?

I meant it's not my choice if we reconcile, that's what he keeps telling me. I'm willing to do and give up anything to win him back.

I meant it's not my choice if we reconcile, that's what he keeps telling me. I'm willing to do and give up anything to win him back.

It isn't unless you want to leave him. Which you don't, so at this time it is his choice. You are still focusing on saving the marriage. Without a healthy adult (you) there is no point and there certainly isn't a marriage to save. You must focus on being honest with yourself. Your husband suspected everything he has dug up. You knew it all, so what does it matter anymore. If they suspect it, you are already sentenced to being that in their eyes. You have nothing to lose but everything everything to gain by being honest to yourself and then to him. Honesty isn't just about remembering all those little details. It is about knowing who you were at that time and facing it.

A little more advise. Even though you sent nudes to the other guy, send them to your husband.

This is also part of the journaling.

Your husband said you should consider divorce, you should have looked him in the eye and said you will always fight for him. That the decision is his and you love and trust him. You need to lay your pride at his feet like that. You seem to be doing the hokey pokey a little by not doubling down on that statement.

Like Pippin said, pursue him. Hard! Make his favorite meals. Tell him something particular about his body you find sexy ("I miss seeing your butt in boxer briefs."). Keep reinforcing why he is a great man ("Watching you work in the yard for me reminded me how good you are with your hands.").

Like I said, these are the love credits. He is telling you they are running low by bringing up divorce and you are waiting to see what happens because you want to follow his lead. That is good, but show him you are willing to chase him.

He said he wanted to kiss you, then you pushed for the love statement. Focus more on his needs, smile and ask why he doesn't kiss you then.

Don't force a decision but take a page from the art of seduction. If he is doing yard work, make sure no one else can see you and flash him. Maybe text him to turn around and look in the window or whatever. He needs to know you pursue him like a drowning person wants air.

It is early. Maybe ask if he wants to go out for a drink with you and make the night about him. Remind him of before, when the 2 of you were younger and first connecting. He will resist. Keep disarming him with pursuit. He will resist, but just keep making submissive moves while being aggressive.

Lastly, the best cure for anger, is laughter. What comedy movie, whatever used to make him laugh? Find a way to watch that with him and just appreciate that he won't be angry for a few of those moments while you are present. This will help his heart start to feel something.

Keep trying. You are doing great. This is going to be rough in a few months when the rage stage kicks in.

If you are able to go into IC I would spend some time pretty early in the sessions talking about the abuse.

Early sexual experiences are formative. If you are abused early, and by someone you trust, you learn all sorts of maladaptive lessons. Sex is something that is used to get attention. I can't trust the people who are supposed to take care of me. Kids draw lots of wrong conclusions from abusive early sexual experiences and they go unchecked into adulthood if they are not addressed. In my mind, my early molestation/rape was my fault, and I proceeded to engage in a lot of sexual experiences where I felt in control, used relationships and sex to hurt men (I thought that's what I was doing) and used sex to get what I wanted. The affair was in part a repetition of that pattern.

If the early coping formed in response to your abuse had any part in your affair, that might be reassuring to your husband at some point. My husband had the typical plan A/plan B fears, but the evidence from my affair all points to him being super plan A and the affair being a malfunction repetitive of early post-abuse patterns. That's part of it - it's important to get the full picture of your whys. (note: an extremely detailed timeline, including conversations and specific words, times/dates of conversations, when and for how long you cut off interactions with the AP if at all, even the very first interaction and how that set the stage - helps with this understanding)

Just food for thought.

My fWW had a few OM over the years. Much like your story, I caught her when she got to close to her friend. She denied about a 2 weeks before I caught her making plans for the EA to become a PA. Unfortunately, later, I found out she had given oral to two OM years before.... They were nothing like me, they needed constant adoration, they needed sexy photos and thought they were "players".

Here is the food for thought. I would have been pissed if I had gotten the crap she had been giving the OM. Texts with nudes, compliments about me, my body, or my sexuality that sound like anything she did for the OM.

I needed to hear that I was a good man (they were not) I needed to hear that she realized what she needed was not a boy toy, or whatever your OM was/is. I needed to know she wanted what I was, a strong man, giving and gentle, who will fight for his family, and never stand down to someone threatening his family. I needed to know she wanted what I was giving her. If she had sexted me, or gave be bullshit compliments like she did the OM, I would have kicked her out and told her to go find a boy toy player.

Treat him like a man. Make sure he knows you are terrified to lose him, that you need him and his best qualities, honesty, strength, kindness and praise him as a father and husband. Do not treat him like you did the OM. I think it will drive him away.

I’m posting this on both your threads because I believe this message might help you both. I am not going to share any specific info from either thread, but this is based on my perception that you both want to reconcile, but really aren’t clear on if it’s possible, how to do it and what the next steps could be.

First some statements, some ground-rules or fundamental issues. Some of them might sound harsh, but to me they are about as close to absolute truths as you can find when dealing with infidelity.

Nothing justifies infidelity. Nothing at all. Neither of you can ever start a sentence with “I/she cheated, but…” followed by some reasoning to explain or minimize the decision to have an affair.

The WS needs to own the decision to have cheated. And yes – it is a decision. If you allow any minimization or try to avoid the total responsibility for deciding to have an affair… well… then there isn’t really any way to prevent it from happening again.

Nobody “wins” infidelity. There are only losers from infidelity. That applies both to the WS and the BS. In my black-and-white world there are only two good ways to get out of infidelity and they are reconciliation or divorce.

Nobody “wins” divorce, the Big D is like an amputation – it’s a change that’s made to live on, to make the best of what is. You don’t divorce for spite or revenge, just like you don’t cut off your foot to spite someone. You divorce to get out of the situation of infidelity and a tainted marriage you (or the spouse) don’t think is worth keeping. What you do with your life after D defines if you win or not.

Reconciliation is comparable. If you manage to R and do so properly you two both “win” per se. Do it properly and you should have the groundwork for a wonderful marriage. But you will soon realize that the work of R could have been done without ever having had to deal with infidelity. You don’t “win” with R because of the infidelity, but rather you could “win” despite the infidelity. But only if done properly.

You can’t punish for infidelity as if that punishment wipes the slate clean. Like we do with criminals: we send someone to jail for 3 years for stealing a car, and once he’s out we claim he’s paid his debt to society and deserves a chance to start fresh. Not the same with an affair. We can’t have WS do push-ups or sleep on the floor or use public shaming. We can’t punish for infidelity.

This is not the same as condoning infidelity. Far from it. But if you want to D then don’t do it to punish the WS, but rather because YOU want to. If you want to R, then don’t make your WS tell everyone in person about the affair unless it has a clear purpose for reconciliation. You can’t punish enough for what happened, so don’t even try because it won’t bring any benefit.

NOTHING – NOTHING – NOTHING is forcing either of you to remain in this marriage.

No – not the kids. NOTHING.

Most research shows that kids are happier when they have two loving parents in a stable, loving environment. The key-factors in that statement is not necessarily the number of loving parents, but rather the environment. This is supported in research that shows that income and education of parent has more weight on child-happiness than the number of parents. Either of you two as good, cooperating co-parents would probably be better for your kids than as husband and wife in a tense, dysfunctional, depressed and unloving environment.

Can’t afford to divorce? Bull…

Don’t want to lose half of yours? More bull…

It’s all excuses. It’s all justification for not doing anything IMHO.

The ONLY reason you should remain married is because you WANT TO, not because you need to or can’t do anything else.

OK – To summarize:

Nothing justifies infidelity.

The WS needs to own the decision to have cheated.

Nobody wins infidelity.

You can R or you can D.

The BS can’t punish the WS successfully, nor can the WS use self-punishment as a means to make things right.

It’s only your will and your choice that keeps you in the marriage.

OK – so with that short intro then let’s get into what I suggest you two do:

Like I stated in my first line I’m posting this on both threads:

Sit down for a minute and think: Do I want this marriage?

I’m not asking if the BS can forgive the affair or not, because that’s not really the goal. The affair will probably never be “forgiven” as most of us understand that word. But… does the BS want to reach a place with the WS where the affair has a lesser role in their relationship?

If no – divorce. Don’t need WS approval to do that. Just go for it.

If yes… Well… Sit down again and think: What sort of marriage do I want?

If the WS wants a shot at being offered reconciliation they need to give the BS the total, unabridged truth… This should be done without having to request it. WS – based on your posts you want to reconcile so go do this irrespective of what your BS wants:

This can be done verbally or in written form. The WS needs to answer questions and be willing to go through the pain with the BS. The WS needs to understand that this is an opportunity to show the BS the honesty and openness and trust so much required for reconciliation. Learning NOW that the WS and the AP had sexed a gazillion times will cause less damage than learning of a kiss 5-6 months into R.

The BS needs to hear the truth and digest it. It might lead to a situation where the BS refuses to reconcile, but without the truth R isn’t possible anyways. The BS needs to understand when the major truths are in the open and realize that some details might be left out because they are non-important. Like did WS have lasagna or ravioli when she ate dinner with OM might not register as relevant in the WS listing of the affair. The BS needs to decide at some point that they have enough “truth” to move on. Be it R or D. This is not the same as deciding not to ask again or for more detail, that can happen at any time. But the BS needs to feel assured he has…97-99% of what he needs.

This can be supported with a poly. If the WS fails a poly after sharing the truth… the BS can assume there are more holes in the story and the trust isn’t there. R isn’t possible. But if the WS passes the poly… you have a good base to work from.

I think it can be beneficial to use good business practices in parts of one’s personal life.

Two entrepreneurs would never simply decide to open a business and then wait for results. You need a direction, a plan, milestones and measuring-blocks. You need to know what you are headed for and have some idea how to get there.

I think that if the BS wants to reconcile he should be upfront about it. An honest, upfront answer could be:

“I want to reconcile, but I’m not clear on if we can. Let’s try and see what we can do”.

There. Now you know what you are headed for. But it’s only a goal, a mission-statement.

If you reach this stage, you two can start talking about what needs to be done. That could be defined partially by what I asked you to think about: What sort of marriage do I want?

Talk about this: A year, 5 years, 10 years from now… what sort of marriage do you want to have? Can you reach a joint goal? A combined vision?

The WS needs to dig deep into the why. This is done with IC and should be rather limited between the IC and the WS. The BS can be informed of progress but should really not meddle in on this. WS can share, but on own accord. This is why they are called INDUVIDUAL counselors.

Youi two need to find ways to interact without the awkwardness and … well…. HATE and sorrow that infidelity brings.

You won’t solve the infidelity issues in a week or even in a month. You need TIME, so there isn’t any benefit or reason to talk A issues all the time every day. Find time to talk, preferably both rested and private. In between find a combination of alone time, together time and family time.

READ on marriage, communications, marital finances… Find combined activities. Heck… take daily 40-minute walks together. No need to talk, just walk side-by-side. Be open to ANY and ALL ideas. Marriage weekend? Go for it. Online courses? Go for it.

Find a good MC. When you phone for an appointment then ask about their experience with infidelity. Ask specifically if they think infidelity is a sign of a bad marriage or can be caused by the BS. If they say “yes” then find another one. These MC’s – using the same logic – probably think rape is due to the victim wearing a short skirt.

At least once a week sit down individually and think: Did we make progress this week? Did I make progress? Sit together and go over the week, the improvements and the down-sides. Be very emotionally clear and open to each other. Ask each other: Are we any closer to our goal?

It’s a long tough road, but it’s made easier if you are both walking together side-by-side. Right now, it does sound like that’s what you want, but it also sounds like you aren’t necessarily headed the same way. Too much push and shove and not enough support.

Hope this helps.

Not knowing if he wants to R,or D. Wanting to kiss you, but being repulsed. Not understanding how he can love you after what you did. All very normal at this stage.

I get the feeling you think you are powerless. When,actually, it is you that can strongly influence how this plays out. Often, it's not the affair that kills the marriage. It's the WS's behavior after dday.

Pippin is right. Persue him. Bring it up. Show him you love him. All day. In every thing you do. Fight for him. Patience. Kindness. Understanding. Take his anger. Understand the underlying emotion is extreme pain. Never be defensive. Never lie. No matter what. Especially when it will hurt him. And it will. But, then, after the sharp pain eases some, he will see that you are going to be honest,no matter what. That is so very important.

I'm going to tell you what I have told other wayward wives. It will be over 1000 times before it's really over. He will tell you he is done. And he will mean it. But how you respond to that is key. If he says he is done, you tell him you will respect any decision he makes, but you will never stop fighting for him. And mean it. And show him.

Read this a lot ^^^ It's very, very true. You hold the cards of working on yourself and fighting for the marriage. Helping him heal. All of it.

Do exactly as hellfire recommended.

You are not getting much in the way of responses lately because you are not asking direct situational questions. Seems like many of your posts are being written for an audience of one, your BS.

There is no Fast Forward button on this. You haven't responded that I have seen to direct questions from other WWs about whether you have provided him with the whole truth.

People will likely step up with helpful input if you ask direct situational questions and confirm that he really has the whole truth. TTing this board hurts only you, TTing your husband keeps the wounds open and festering.

Take it from a person who aggressively pursued her BH. It helps A LOT because you're demonstrating through actions (which are super important to a BS) that they are a priority to you. They matter. Yes, you'll get rejected but persistence and patients is key. The biggest indicator that you have a shot at this is that he hasn't left you yet.

Pursue him hard. Make him feel desired. If he's up for it, surprise him with flirty texts. Pippin is right on with her suggestion. I mean, what else do you have to lose?

Like Pippin said, pursue him. Hard! Make his favorite meals. Tell him something particular about his body you find sexy ("I miss seeing your butt in boxer briefs."). Keep reinforcing why he is a great man ("Watching you work in the yard for me reminded me how good you are with your hands.").

Yes, former Wayward ladies, let’s open “The Art of Seduction” book page 56, that should help the BH get over the backstabbing, the lying, the deception, the minimising, the gaslighting, the blameshifting, and all the niceties that were thrown at us during and immediately after the affair. Let’s use sex as a way of getting back into our husband’s heart. Let’s talk dirty with him as we did with the other man, let’s be flirtatious as we did with the other man, let’s tell him that we never stopped loving him while we were sending flirtatious and dirty texts to the other man. Let’s be shallow and fake since the way to a man’s heart is through his pants. I don’t know for you, but as BW, after a couple of weeks of HB, the last thing I wanted was my husband’s hands on me. And I would not believe any of his compliments, they were fake for me. After all, these same compliments, he made them to a total stranger, to a trash a couple of months back. What does it say about his feelings? That they are shallow, inauthentic, not real.

Despite what Betrayed Men express about their feelings of being emasculated, I do not think the way to address this is by paying them cheap compliments on their nice butts, those same nice butts, let’s not forget, which were not so nice a few months back compared to the nice butts of the new soulmate.

Being kind, bringing them a glass of fresh lemonade while they’re working in the garden, this is authentic. Helping them by holding the plank of wood that they are cutting, that is authentic. Preparing their favourite dish, that is authentic. Listening to them with empathy, without defensiveness, being patient and humble, that is authentic. Wearing sexy lingerie and complimenting them on their broad shoulders will never take away the knife that was planted in their back.

I would echo the above. First of all, tell him 100% of the whole truth. Write it out, from first flirty text to final PIV sex to DDay. Do not omit any detail.

Among other things, if R proceeds, he will go through a long process of asking the same questions over and over. The written timeline will be useful for answering those questions.

In the meantime, pursue him. Do not relent, even as he pushes you away again and again. Keep this in mind. He loves you more than he loves anybody. At the same time, you have hurt him more than he has ever been hurt by anybody. This creates a cognitive dissonance in his emotions. He looks at you, but he cannot understand what he sees. It's like software that won't boot up. His brain is like that rotating colorful disc stuck in the middle of the screen of a frozen computer that won't take any action. It is almost impossible for a person to hole both emotions -- love and hate -- for the same person at the same time.

Your task is to help him re-boot. Help him focus, and understand what he sees.

He will suspect your motives if you tell him you are attracted to him, that you desire him. He will think these statements are ersatz, counterfeit, condescending, patronizing. He may think you're only doing it because you don't want to lose the comfort of your marriage and your home. Or because you don't want to end up a single divorced woman with a legacy of cheating. In other words, some motive besides a genuine desire for him as a man.

The only path through that is time and perseverance by you. Consistent, repeated actions that confirm your true feelings. Keep in mind this could take years.

I would read Amarula and Butforthegrace last posts everyday for a month and review what you have done.

Well said by both

Take your time - long road ahead

By Woundedbear, indispensible reading.

My fWW had a few OM over the years. Much like your story, I caught her when she got to close to her friend. She denied about a 2 weeks before I caught her making plans for the EA to become a PA. Unfortunately, later, I found out she had given oral to two OM years before.... They were nothing like me, they needed constant adoration, they needed sexy photos and thought they were "players".

Here is the food for thought. I would have been pissed if I had gotten the crap she had been giving the OM. Texts with nudes, compliments about me, my body, or my sexuality that sound like anything she did for the OM.

I needed to hear that I was a good man (they were not) I needed to hear that she realized what she needed was not a boy toy, or whatever your OM was/is. I needed to know she wanted what I was, a strong man, giving and gentle, who will fight for his family, and never stand down to someone threatening his family. I needed to know she wanted what I was giving her. If she had sexted me, or gave be bullshit compliments like she did the OM, I would have kicked her out and told her to go find a boy toy player.

Treat him like a man. Make sure he knows you are terrified to lose him, that you need him and his best qualities, honesty, strength, kindness and praise him as a father and husband. Do not treat him like you did the OM. I think it will drive him away.

There is indeed more to a man than obvious sexual attributes and primal desires. Yes, they do have a soul and an intellect too.

Yesterday I sent him a text about how I saw him the day before, a compliment on his body and how I stared at him from the window. I went back and forth if I should send because I didn't know if it would upset him or not. I sent it because it was the truth and I wanted him to know how I felt in that moment. He came back with some angry texts, which I understood and expected. We both went to our own IC last night. After mine was done, he asked if I liked mine and could really talk to her. I said that I really like her and she helps me see things that I didn't want to recognize before in myself. He too likes his new one, which I was really happy to hear.

He asked if we could talk. He said he wanted to get some words out before I started to answer. He first apologized for sending angry texts(I later told him that he doesn't have to apologize for being angry, I know he will be going through all the emotions because of what I've done) and explained that he didn't know how to take it. He said I had never sent something like that before or acted like that (I later told him that I have in fact done that, but it has been awhile). He thought I had a motive and was playing a game to get him to stay. He asked if people on here were giving me advice to do/say things. He asked that if I do that stuff, that it be genuine and really me.

It was my turn to answer. I told him he didn't have to apologize, I know he will be feeling every type of emotion. I told him that I truly meant what I said in the text. I felt that way when I saw him and stared at him out the window. I did say that people on here were giving me advice to feel up the "love credit" by giving compliments, or making him his favorite meal, or leave little notes around the house. I told him that if I do any of this things, they would be words or actions that I would have normally have done before. I told him that I am writing him another timeline, this one with the emotional part of the affair. The first one was all the time specific details. He then asked if I had given him the compliment that day, what would I have wanted from it. I told him exactly what I would have wanted to happen. He asked me if us not having sex has been hard. I said yes and no, yes because I want to touch him so bad even if it's just a kiss or a hug or to lay next to him, and no because I know he's not there yet it has to be on his terms and I will respect that. He then asked if I wanted to go lay down next to him for a little bit. Hell yeah I did!! I said yes and waited for him to start walking, again following his lead. At first he seemed hesitant, I said we can just lay in the bed but not touch. He let me snuggle right up against him and it felt amazing. I felt such peace and calm. After a minute or so, I could feel him relax too. It was amazing. I did go back to the guest room after because I didn't want to push, but I was so giddy laying there. I couldn't stop smiling.

I know it doesn't mean that we are definitely reconciling or any guarantees, but in that moment we were us again. And I will take any chance I can get.

[This message edited by LifeDestroyer at 8:14 AM, August 14th (Wednesday)]

That is such great news! Any progress, no matter how small, no matter little meaning is behind it, is good progress! Great job.

You were honest about your intentions and he had every right to question your motives. Keeping calm and being patient while steadfastly showing him your desire to be with him is a very great start in your journey. Very important that you acknowledge that it was just one day of positive and the next day may bring another challenge.

I have noticed that a lot of WW who do not put the necessary effort to pursue their husbands (whether through lust, love, authenticity or empathy) have the hardest time when it comes to R (not everyone of course, but most). Anyone, and I mean anyone wants to know that they are desired by their partner. The best way to show their importance to you is through consistent action.

Once again, well done. It's a great step forward.

Beautiful post, LD.