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Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts - 19

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Somber posted 5/11/2019 21:06 PM

Shocked, I think in the moment he was proud at his talent of convincing women to give him blow jobs. In the same moment he insulted the very same women which made me see clearly how much he objectifies women! I sometimes think an emotional affair would hurt less as it would come from a place of love and kindness to another woman. These PAís from a place of selfishness and objectification are so damaging to my beliefs in love and kindness and respect. Handjobs, blowjobs, sex, porn...any and all of it is so hurtful and makes me angry too.

Marji, yes he is stupid and likely trying to say things that he think will manipulate me to stay. I didnít see it at the time, I was just hurt and have allowed myself that slap now! Donít feel bad anymore, he has long deserved it.

Ashes, lol glad you had a chuckle. The demented ways they can think and justify their actions is humorous at times.i desperately needed to know the truth as well. By now the more I know the more itís damaging me. I donít think I can know anything more at the moment without losing my mind. I just canít wrap my head around the hurtful things I know now.

I learned to say, "This hurts too much" or "This offends me too deeply and I can't listen now
thanks for this, I will use these sayings too. I donít think I can process more right now. He shared some awful things the other night and I am having a hard time with that knowledge.
I too feel that this kind of cruelty has planted seeds of hate over the years, now I have a garden of hate for him. There may be one flower of love but that flower is built on empathy alone.

marji posted 5/12/2019 18:34 PM

I sometimes think an emotional affair would hurt less as it would come from a place of love and kindness to another woman.

Somber I have sometimes had the same thought. I know I felt disgust more than hurt when I learned what my H had been doing twice weekly for ten years or more.

The IC explained that H was someone with a pretodler sense of morals or ethics; he was someone who was emotionally anorexic; someone with basically no normal, adult human feelings. He felt nothing whatever for the women who serviced him and felt nothing for me or the marriage. Just an activity that he enjoyed and was incapable of guilt or shame. Yes, he kept it secret but not because he felt ashamed-just concerned that there'd be no interference and the knowledge that others would think it wrong.

So I commented that with enough therapy I guess the next infidelity would be a real affair with real emotions-a real relationship.

After almost 4 years it's still all sickening. I don't think I will ever feel affection or respect again. At best it's a kind of friendshp based on 40 years together. And yes, I think if it had been a "normal" affair it would have hurt but I could have better stomached the thought. All betrayal is bad but these guys are really pathetic.

Shocked123 posted 5/12/2019 20:18 PM

Love the comment about when he has enough therapy his next affair may be a normal one! -I've said the same thing.
I bet my H chose mostly AMP's because they don't speak his language; another barrier besides anonymity to distance himself emotionally and use these women for his needs.
Certainly wasn't much conversation going on, that's for sure.
Pathetic is a good word....

secondtime posted 5/12/2019 23:13 PM

I always thought that shame was a part of SA's mo.

Shame was a huge component for my husband, not only for round one, but also for keeping his slips quasi-relapse a secret.

That's not to say my husband doesn't still have issues with feelings. He does. And he's trying to address them.

I'm also trying to figure out if I should get out of dodge when I can, because I also understand that my husband is capable of escalating to physical cheating. We're young yet. He likes to tell me that he'll never cheat.

But, after 5 years of sobriety, it's clear he doesn't get it, he's got poor boundaries...and when he's hell bent on getting high, that's what he'll do, consequences be damned. So. I'm not so inclined to believe him.

marji posted 5/13/2019 04:41 AM

Secondtime The SA criteria was set forth by Patrick Carnes--and yes, it includes shame as an essential trait of SA-he said the SA lives out a cycle of acting out, feeling guilty and then acting out again to escape the feeling of guilt. Carnes also wrote that SAs lives are taken over by their habit; their lives become unmanageable and they deal with almost constant urges, thoughts, temptations.

My H does not fit Carnes's SA description or test SA according to the Carnes test. But I don't think these labels are what matters and clearly acting out twice weekly for over a decade strongly suggests a compulsion, a "habit" by anyone's definition and the damage is done no matter the label. Habits can be given up; they are given up all the time-substance habits, behavior habits. And some betrayers never betray again after discovery, after some loss, after some trauma.
But we have no crystal ball-no way to really know what the future holds anymore than we knew before what it was they were doing.

I hope you can come to peace with whatever decision you decide to make.

Lifeexploded posted 5/13/2019 07:47 AM

My husband and I have not had sex in almost 2 years. I told him that 2 things have to happen before I will have sex with him. Number one, a vasectomy. Number 2, a close loving emotionally intimate relationship. Lately he has really been anxious to get that vasectomy done, because he thinks that it means we're gonna bone like rabbits afterwards. Last night I finally had to point out that that's not how it's going to work. We ended up having a long-drawn-out conversation where he told me that he is not getting any younger and hes not gonna live in a relationship without sex blah blah blah. He wants to go to counseling and try to fix things and if we can't fix it and I can't get over this then we're gonna have to get a divorce. I managed to get him a timeline put on it, which is 3 years from niw which is basicslly 6.5 yeard after discovery. I pointed out that it's not fair to me that he basically threw 10 years of our marriage down the toilet and expected me to just sit there and take it but then he can't take 3 to 6 years of me trying to get my life in order to where I can support kids. He is such a selfish person I just can't. So now I have to go to counseling and pretend like I'm trying to save this marriage while I try to get my business to a point where it can support me in the kids. I really dont see it qorking long term. For at least the last year he has been crabby, rude, disrespectful, mean, and will not show love to me at all. I pointed this out and he admitted that yes he is like that but it's because he's mad at me for not having sex with him. He just turned 40 for crying out loud - grow up! He made the comment that I am withholding sex. I am not withholding sex to be mean I'm just not going to have sex with someone that I don't love or have sex to keep him happy. I did that for years and i will not do it again. I feel so emotionally drainrd today after that long conversation and honestly I really feel like we got nowhere except maybe now he sees exactly where he stands. He kept threatening "well I'll just go down and file for divorce tomorrow" and I just kept throwing it back in his face and saying "well you just go right ahead and do that then but stop threatening me."
Sorry that was a bit rambling. I was using voice to text and its hard to get my thoughts in order that way sometimes.

marji posted 5/13/2019 14:23 PM

Shocked[/bold It seems that in NYC all the massage women are foreign born; my H said that when he started, that would be almost 14 years ago (almost 4 since quitting after discovery) the women were mostly Russian, Ukrainian as well as Korean. My guess is that's because they are doing that work because their passports have been taken or they were conned into coming here on false promises and are afraid of arrests. An English friend of mine described something similar where she lives. Maybe we should find a good publisher and write a best selling book about this.

ashestophoenix posted 5/13/2019 17:50 PM

Lifeexploded, your husband clearly has not recovered. He still is unclear about relational sex, not objectified sex. He's after the orgasm; not the connection. My husband was the same way and he's shut up about it for about six months. I just stopped explaining what I needed, like, um an emotional connection...you know, a loving relationship. Completely eludes him.

Anyway, no way I'm going to ever have sex with him .
I'm so sorry for what you are going through.


Shocked123 posted 5/13/2019 20:26 PM

My H admits to starting in 2005 in China. Iím sure it was before that.
Then he added Asian massage parlours in our home town in 2008. At that time, many parkours were strictly Asian.
As the years wore on, he admitted to seeing women in their own home which were primarily South American, Russian and one Romanian who he had a massage LTA affair for almost 10 years. The other 8 year massage LTA was a Colombian woman. Both LTAís were with women older than Him.
As you can see, nationality, age and looks have nothing to do with their choices. Itís who they can use to their advantage.
Mine freely admits that he looked for ďbargainsĒ and refused to pay top dollar hence the visits to their homes where they do not have to pay the spa. I think about how things could have ended up if he had been arrested! Or I picture some irate boyfriend showing up with his girlfriend massaging my husband and how that could have ended.
I like the book idea but I believe a trilogy is in order.

Joy1984 posted 5/13/2019 21:25 PM

I've been reading back through some of the pages on this thread and something really hit me.

There were mentions of meeting husbands at the door naked or in lingerie and just getting zero response, and I've had that same thing happen. For a person who 'has a very high sex drive' (this is what my WH has always said about himself), I often want to have physical intimacy more than he does, and the few times I've surprised him with something sexy, it rarely goes well. It's so devastating I have a hard time ever trying again and that leaves me feeling defeated, decidedly unsexy, and just... worthless. I have my own trauma around putting too much of my worth on my sexuality and how sexually pleasing I am to a partner, so that's not all my husband, but jeez, it doesn't help.

Even when my husband tells me I look good or expresses interest in sex (which we do have fairly regularly), I have a hard time knowing if it's genuine.

DevastatedDee posted 5/14/2019 06:56 AM

There were mentions of meeting husbands at the door naked or in lingerie and just getting zero response, and I've had that same thing happen. For a person who 'has a very high sex drive' (this is what my WH has always said about himself), I often want to have physical intimacy more than he does, and the few times I've surprised him with something sexy, it rarely goes well. It's so devastating I have a hard time ever trying again and that leaves me feeling defeated, decidedly unsexy, and just... worthless. I have my own trauma around putting too much of my worth on my sexuality and how sexually pleasing I am to a partner, so that's not all my husband, but jeez, it doesn't help.

I could have written this when I was with my WH. Same for having issues putting too much worth into my sexuality due to trauma. This is going to haunt me when I decide to date too. I'll be thinking "Yeah sure, he'd want me more if I were 20 again. He's settling for my middle-aged ass". I didn't feel like that before, like I was worthless sexually. He hit me where it hurts with this bullshit too.

Lifeexploded posted 5/14/2019 08:36 AM

Ashes, yes youre right. He is stuck in that sex = love mindset. He thinks he can treat me like crap for a year and then play nice, give a few massages, talk to a therapist for a few months, and it will all be ok again. I will take the massages though. Our health insurance doesnt pay for marriage counseling., but we are trying an online place. We will see how that goes. In hisbintroductory paragraph, he said that we have been trying for 4 years to fix our marriage after infidelity. Still dlesnt have the balls to come right out and just say it was him.

Lionne posted 5/14/2019 11:01 AM

Trilogy, heck! We could easily outdo George RR Martin!

LaniKai posted 5/14/2019 12:44 PM

Snoopy3 We have done intensive with Dr. Milton Magness. How Can I help?

Lionne posted 5/14/2019 16:30 PM

This is going to be long...on the first of May I discovered he had deleted history. He watch two R rated movies and looked at scantily clothed Selena Gomez. His first reaction was ridiculous, "mainstream movies!" "Sharon Stone is a millionaire so she isn't being victimized like porn stars!"
OMG. He's a idiot.
He's now RE committed to recovery for the upteenth time, wrote out a disclosure that had no new news, slightly new POV perhaps. He's looking to find a CSAT and is still seeing the guy that he's been seeing since whenever.
He's ashamed. He's embarrassed. He's sorry. Did I mention he's an idiot?
The problem is me. The prospect of leaving my garden, the birds, the sunlight and the Jersey shore is scary and undesirable.
I have a new IC too. She's my age, practical. Her take on the whole thing is that I have three choices, stay, go or becoming resigned.
We do "get along" we do things together, we enjoy each other's company. He's still emotionally stunted. He's working on it, but, like Ashes, I think he has a limited amount of time to work on that. Here's an example of a conversation we had today, when I asked him what the status of his recovery work was...
"I'm being grateful for what I have. I'm going to meetings and listening better. Oh. Feelings. I'm supposed to talk about feelings. Wait. There is a list of feeling words I'm supposed to use..."
He's using a checklist. This may be the best he can do. He's 68, bipolar, immature.
I don't trust that he won't slip again. He's an addict. I won't ever have had a normal marriage. I have to grieve that. And decide, one day at a time, whether to stay or go.

Lifeexploded posted 5/14/2019 18:05 PM

Lionne, what do you WANT out of life if you could choose? Not counting time travelling or magically making your husband something he isnt of courxe. Whats standing in your way? Do you want to live like this forever? Can you change it if you want to?

secondtime posted 5/14/2019 19:32 PM

I've always expected my husband to slip. But, we were just 30 when I discovered. We are human..and didn't think it was wise to expect my husband to be 100% perfect every day of his life for the next 60 years. I can't really even expect that of myself, and I'm not an addict. I don't know that I should expect that from DH.

The lying has been the deal breaker..not the slip (or slipping).

So when I'm on other messageboards, it's painfully obvious at how lucky I am with the rest of DH's behaviors. Someone posted about how a husband was going to honor his wife by doing the family laundry on mother's day. Others were like "how wonderful." I didn't get how that was special at all. My husband does the laundry all.the.time. Because he's a member of the household and there's no free rides for the adults. Even the kids need to pitch in. My husband is really involved with our kids. He's changed way more diapers than I ever will. The list goes on and on.

Last night I came to bed and told DH that I wished our marriage was not complicated. I married him expecting an easy time of marriage. We were both savers, both from the same socio-economic status, the same religion, had the same views on parenting, education, even fairly matched sex drives. Except for his addiction, we literally do not have anything to fight about. Easy.

There's no guarantees with any marriage. That's not to say that there's no additional risk with an SA. There completely is. My husband hasn't yet physically cheated on me. But, I understand better that I probably should expect it.

I think the more we are hurt, the more we hurt, the more we want those long term guarantees. And we forget that it's not one day at a time just for us, but for everyone.

We forget that marriage is not an unconditional, boundary-less contract. It's conditional, for everyone.

At least, these are some of the things I am wrestling with.

demolishedinside posted 5/14/2019 21:12 PM

Gosh, secondtime, mine too. He does laundry and is very active with the kids. He cooks dinner. We sort of switched on and off with things. Iíll miss that so much. I appreciate those things and especially with kids and all of the activities, I have no idea how Iíll do it all. Heck, heís always mowed so that is all new to me. Iím just so sad that he couldnít even choose to stop. He certainly sold how well he was doing. His group and therapist were stunned when they found out heíd done it again. Iím just thinking that laundry isnít worth losing peace and sanity over. I did love him. I did love our lives. Now, Iím lonelier than I ever remember being.

May I share something good? I have a job interview at a wonderful place that would pay so well. This is my chance at a fresh start. I go in two weeks. If you have extra prayers, please send them my way.

ashestophoenix posted 5/15/2019 08:49 AM

Lionne, I feel so conflicted every day I stay living with my husband. It's very hard and emotionally and physically exhausting. For me the key to reducing this burden, since I have decided to stay for the health insurance and financial stability, is to let go of my husband and my marriage. I let go of his addiction, his recovery, his whining, his disappointment, his ineptitude, his BS. I'm still letting go of his immaturity and incessant neediness and desire to control.

The more important thing is for me to focus on me and my well being. I wake up and think, "what would I do today if I was divorced" and try to live that way. I'm working full time, so I don't have a lot of free time. But it makes me aware of what prevents me from living my life fully.

I don't enjoy my husband's company. He's less abusive, but he just presents himself as this wounded little boy/sad sack who is waiting for me (mommy) to show him the way. Ugh. I can't tell you how much I hate that. He's not an adult. He can't have an adult relationship. He is still working on the basics of life management. He actually knows all of this, which is a relief. He turns 76 in a couple of weeks. He's still physically healthy and is now riding his bike 100 miles a week. But he's emotionally a little boy. And his sexuality? What a mess.

So the question for me is how damaging is it living with a wounded little boy who wants a mother? REALLY DAMAGING!

So my conflict is weighing what I will lose in divorcing him and what I will gain. All my advisors (legal, financial, therapeutic) weigh the pros and cons at about 50/50. I don't have one clear path over another. They both suck. And, honestly, I grieve that and I hate my husband for his part in getting me here.

But it's my decision. I'm the one who has to figure all of this out. It's painful. But...I make a decision each day and I've learned that it is okay to do that. The risk for me is letting the days turn into weeks, then months, then years. I fear that.

But I look out my window into my back yard which is woods on a hill leading to a tidal marsh. It's beautiful. I have bird feeders, and nest boxes, and so many beautiful birds and wildlife. It's blissfully quiet (for now before the summer crowds, and even then it's quiet in my yard). It's beautiful and peaceful. My dogs are sleeping at my feet and my parakeets are chirping. If I divorce, I give this up and will never get it back. I lost so much I will never get back when I moved from my home of 30 years. I don't want to lose that again. So....these decisions are hard.


[This message edited by ashestophoenix at 8:55 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)]

ShatteredSorrow posted 5/15/2019 15:25 PM

Please can some of you point me towards what to look for in a new therapist (before I have to spend any money on a session)?

My last one was great and I really valued her but I was referred to her by our couples therapist at the time. And before we knew anywhere near the extent of things. So I'm not sure what I should be looking for now (once I have insurance that is).

Ashestophoenix is there no way you could keep the house in a divorce? Also are you able to get on Medicare or Medicaid? If the financial/health/emotional has 50/50 outcome whether you stay or divorce, perhaps put that aside for a moment and think about which option you feel more freedom or peace around? Which option, with or without him, can you see a possibility of a happy life in the future? Without the ability to change him or change the past, if you closed your eyes and imagined yourself living joyfully, in lets say 5 years from now, what would that look like? Try to get a vivid picture. What would you be doing? Where would you be living? Who would you be seeing regularly? Then imagine looking back on today and knowing you made the right decision. What was that decision? Sometimes imagining into the future can get us far enough away from the emotions of today to see what our heart/spirit feels and wants.
Answering those questions might help you get some clarity on which choice makes the most sense for you. Maybe that life will still include him in some way, maybe it won't. Either path is good if you can create a life filled with peace and joy (or whatever it is you most want in life). Perhaps you feel you can do that while staying, perhaps you don't. But you can't have space for the things you want to say yes to in your life without making room by saying no to the things you don't want. (Which for example could be saying no to feeling/being resentful or miserable any more and staying and rebuilding a friendship, or saying no to being in a painful loveless marriage and yes to independence and discovering a way to be covered financially. What do you want to say yes to? What is the 'no' that would make that yes possible?

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