SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I just have to say I see this here, on TV shows, movies, talk shows, articles...and it bothers me.

I struggle with my WH’s A. I’m almost 18mos from d day. I hate what he did to me, to us, to our family.

But honestly, once a cheater always a cheater? Are we saying people aren’t capable of change? Because I don’t believe that’s true. I believe people can carry a label but that doesn’t mean that’s what they are. My WH cheated. He’s a cheater, but he’s not anymore and doing a lot of hard work in IC to be a better everything. He is changing. I see it.

Would we ever say, once an alcoholic, always one? Despite the fact that we know rehab exists and works for many? I just find it hard to believe that so many people really think that people are incapable of change, that they will always be who they were at their worst.

Alcoholics are always alcoholics. The distinction is whether or not they are in recovery. Alcoholism is also an illness, so it's not a good or fair analogy. My father was sober for 7 years before he died as a recovering alcoholic. But he was most definitely still an alcoholic.

Yes, people can change. If they want to. If they put in the hard work. If they are changing because they want to be better people.

Isn't that a cornerstone of AA - once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic? Maybe I'm wrong, never been to AA. But it seems that part of owning it in that program is to accept that once and alcoholic, always an alcoholic.

I think there's some who say this as a statement that the BS cannot be un-cheated on.

I think waywardness is one more poor coping strategy. And while much growth can occur, I think there very well could be a rational concern that if the WS doesn't stay on top of their emotional health, there could be a falling off the wagon into wayward coping again, possibly leading to relapse.

Just a few thoughts. Looking forward to seeing how others respond to this.

ETA - I see I cross posted with Adlham. Didn't mean to be unnecessarily repetitive.

[This message edited by jaynelovesvera at 6:04 PM, October 8th (Monday)]

Sorry but if the person was a child molester or a murder, does once they stop mean they are no longer those things..it’s a Pavle for life no matter how ya twist it..can they change sure..doesn’t change the fact

STBXWH is and will always be a cheater and an alcoholic. This holds true regardless if our D is finalized or not, if he’s in an affair or being loyal, or if he is actively drinking or sober. He is because these things are the two substances he’s addicted to, his “poisons.”

My logic is based on what I learned in his AA group. In AA they teach that an alcoholic is one for life, as they can slip up at any moment and lose sobriety. The alcoholic must constantly battle a dragon that has controlled their life, dictating their daily actions, even if some part of their brain said “No! Don’t drink! Stop!” I feel the same about cheaters. They may be loyal today, but the fact that they have the capacity for such deceit & compartmentalization, coupled with the addiction to the feel good chemicals that ”true wuv” produces, make a relapse possible at any time. With a good IC, I feel that the risk is minimized, but they will always have the capacity to be “addicted” again.

So once = always to me.

So what if there’s no addiction to cheating involved then? Or sex? What if somebody cheats and does the work, they will still just cheat again? Just because they once did? I don’t agree. If someone is 20 years sober, are they still looked at the same as someone who is 20 hours sober? I just don’t like this saying. It diminishes the work the WS does. It doesnt change what they did, obviously, but you get where I’m going...

I don't believe it diminishes the work. Quite the opposite in my estimation (obviously can't speak for everyone).

I think it identifies just how hard the work is and that there is no room for coasting or dialing it in.

Otherwise, why have boundaries like no close friendships with the opposite gender? Or any of the others? What is the timeline? At what point should our WSs trust themselves so much that they could hang out in their version of a bar?

Crazy hurt, I agree with you. My EX was a cheater, so the label will stay with her for life. She will always be a cheater.

To the second question, will the cheater always cheat again. I don’t think so. I didn’t have any fears of her cheating again. Her life was in such shambles that there was no way she would ever risk her marriage by cheating again. In fact she went the other way of smothering me.

I do think that if she hadn’t been caught she might have cheated again, and certainly would have kept her affair going. She swore on her children that she was going to end it and it was a perfect storm that never would have happened again. I think otherwise but it really can’t be proven either way

No, I don't think it's a true blanket statement.

It denies the possibility for growth. It reminds me of the "three strikes" rule, eliminating any sense of nuance.

Some affairs are short-lived, deeply regretted, divulged to the partner, and the cheater makes amends without being asked. I wouldn't say this person has to be cast in the forever-a-cheater role.

And some people screw up in a much bigger way, but never do it again.

I would be a candidate to believe it, based on personal experience, but I don't.

edited for typo.

[This message edited by de.va.sta.ted at 7:59 PM, October 8th (Monday)]

Yes people can change it only if they really want to.

And their actions will prove it.

I consider my WW a forever serial cheater, and she lives everyday knowing she is one call, text, photo, IM, etc away from me leaving her.

Zero tolerance.

Usually permanent changes don't come unless there are life-altering consequences to actions. Some addicts need to OD and almost die before they get clean. What life-altering consequences has your cheater suffered?

Well, he almost lost his marriage and family, house, reputation, etc. He has seen me sobbing and hyperventilating and known That he is the cause. When I asked him about cheating again he says he hates himself for what he did, that he could never do this to me again. I think he hit rock bottom cheating the way he did. And he knows that. I also have zero tolerance for anything that feels slightly sketchy. I’m almost 18 mos out. It’s been 17 mos since the TT ended. He cheated, he is a cheater, but once one always one? I don’t think so—it implies a definite slip at some point in the future, and I don’t think that’s fair to either party, IMO.

But honestly, once a cheater always a cheater? 

For many, I'm sure the saying applies. For many, it doesn't. If your husband was a great guy for a good chunk of his life, does that mean he'll always be a great guy...no matter what?

I've always been of the philosophy of who we are at that time in our life. Your husband was a cheater during a time of his life. And in the last year plus, he's been someone who wants to be a better person. That's who he is today....just as he was a person who didn't want to better himself in a time past.

Hell....if we're branded for life without the possibility to change, I want them to only use my best attributes.

Usually permanent changes don't come unless there are life-altering consequences to actions.

That's the other side of the external validation coin. Just as external validation doesn't fill up a hole in a soul, neither do consequences, IMO.

What causes change is whatever causes a person to want a change enough to do the work. Fear could do it, regret could do it, just waking up and deciding one deserves to be a better person (but can't be unless s/he does the work), etc., etc., etc..

I have always interpreted that saying as meaning that a cheater won’t change and will always cheat again.

But, I do believe people can change. Do I label my husband as a cheater? I don’t label him but I think of him as a former cheater not an active cheater.

CrazyHeart, your H was a cheater. If he stopped; if he is no longer cheating, if he never cheats again, he still was a cheater and so in that sense the label always applies. But isn't that superficial. Isn't what matters is that the person stops cheating and never cheats again?

If you are asking if someone who cheated will necessarily continue then the answer is, no, not necessarily. People's behaviors, thoughts, opinions, attitudes can and do change sometimes. Sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. We could even ask the opposite question, does once a faithful partner mean always a faithful partner? No. Not that way either. People can surprise us. We sometimes surprise ourselves.

People can change. Some drug addicts stop using drugs; some alcoholics stop drinking; some kleptomaniacs stop stealing, some smokers stop smoking. Sometimes the change requires lots of work; lots of effort and lots of support.

I don't know your story or what you are planning to do, but hope that if you are still in relationship with your H that he is working toward being his better self and turning from cheater to trustworthy, honest partner.

I think it depends on how you interpret the phrase. My husband's affair was five years ago. Yes, he cheated so one can say "once a cheater always a cheater."

If you use the phrase to define the person - or predict future behavior - then no. I don't think it is fair to label a person for past behavior. If they are truly remorseful - truly want to change and are consistent in doing the work necessary to change - then defining them by past behavior is unfair and only belittles their efforts to change.

People can and do change - and we need to support those who are doing the hard work to truly change and not define future behavior by past behavior.

My WH really struggles with this. He keeps saying that this will define him for life.

I’ve said that it won’t define him because there are so many other facets to him that no 9ne th8ngs define him but that at times, like when I have to question something that I wouldn’t have questioned pre-infidelity, in that moment, the infidelity does define him.

My story is, quick and dirty, my Wh used a dating app to find a woman to cheat on me with while he was away at a work account out of state. He met her every time he went there for a year and half--he went about 6 times. She knew he was married, he knew what he was doing was wrong, but couldn't get out of it bc he felt she'd call. He was right. When he finally shut it down despite her threats that she'd tell me, she did call. And that's how I found out.

Anyway...

I'm saying, the statement does imply once one always one, i.e. they will cheat again. That, I do not like.

For example, when I was 8 I stole a tootsie roll from the bin at the 7-11. I was a thief. Am I a thief now? No--but I have stolen something. I would hate to be judged by that incident for the rest of my life, and have to carry a thief label with me.

I guess because I am in R I look at this differently than some of you. I don't want to be married to a cheater. Who wants that? Did he cheat? Yes. He sure did, and I am still not totally accepting of that. But I don't see how this labeling system is good for either party.

If you D, the label makes sense to hold I guess, you're leaving over the A for whatever reason, but one could be because you fear they will cheat again.

I used to think about this differently, I guess. In the beginning when I was SO angry all the time. Maybe time has changed my view, and also his hard work. As well as my own.