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I Can Relate :
Betrayed Menz Thread-Part 33

Topic is Sleeping.
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Ripped62 ( member #60667) posted at 6:55 PM on Thursday, October 25th, 2018

I hope you do not mind if I join in this band of brothers.

James Bond actually drank a number of cocktails and other beverages although he is famous for the Vodka Martini perhaps more so from the films and not the literature. As a fictional character he simply had "no taste."

Ian Fleming drank Gin Martinis. To be more accurate he drank Gin and plenty of it until later because of medical issues.

posts: 3174   ·   registered: Sep. 17th, 2017   ·   location: United States of America
id 8273358
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wincing_at_light ( member #14393) posted at 8:07 PM on Thursday, October 25th, 2018

Sorry to hear that 64fleet.

About 6 week ago, my wife reached out to an old BF from high school on social media and met up with him without my knowledge or consent.

When I made a deal out of it, she threatened me with divorce because she wasn't going to "go through this shit with you" again.

We're okay now, but I did go through a bit of wondering whether or not this shit does, in fact, ever go away.

You can't beat the Axis if you get VD

posts: 7084   ·   registered: Apr. 27th, 2007   ·   location: Indiana
id 8273398
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steadychevy ( member #42608) posted at 8:26 PM on Thursday, October 25th, 2018

If she wasn't going to go through that shit again, WAL, why'd she do that shit again?

BH(me)70; XWW 64; M 42 yrs
DDay1-01/09/13;DDay2-26/10/13;DDay3-19/12/13;DDay4-21/01/14
LTA-09/02-06/06? OM - COW
"dates" w/3 lovers post engagement;ONS w/stranger post commitment, lies, lies, lies
Separated 23/09/2017; D 16/03/2020

posts: 4660   ·   registered: Feb. 27th, 2014   ·   location: Canada
id 8273407
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Oldwounds ( member #54486) posted at 8:33 PM on Thursday, October 25th, 2018

Gin is an acquired taste

I have tried sisoon, but at this point in life, I'd rather drop a straw in paint thinner than ruin a drink with gin.

Married 34+ years, together 40+ years
Two awesome adult sons.
Dday 6/16 4-year LTA Survived
Restoration takes time.
"Circumstances don't make the man, they only reveal him to himself." ― Epictetus

posts: 4180   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2016   ·   location: PNW. The adventure continues.
id 8273412
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wincing_at_light ( member #14393) posted at 8:33 PM on Thursday, October 25th, 2018

Well, if I knew that, I'd probably be one of those celebrity relationship counselors trying to sell you my book and 6 week marriage boot camp, now wouldn't I?

You can't beat the Axis if you get VD

posts: 7084   ·   registered: Apr. 27th, 2007   ·   location: Indiana
id 8273414
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Oldwounds ( member #54486) posted at 8:36 PM on Thursday, October 25th, 2018

We're okay now, but I did go through a bit of wondering whether or not this shit does, in fact, ever go away.

It feels more like -- did she ever, really get it?

Damn. Shitty boundaries are still weird to me.

Married 34+ years, together 40+ years
Two awesome adult sons.
Dday 6/16 4-year LTA Survived
Restoration takes time.
"Circumstances don't make the man, they only reveal him to himself." ― Epictetus

posts: 4180   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2016   ·   location: PNW. The adventure continues.
id 8273415
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Butforthegrace ( member #63264) posted at 9:01 PM on Thursday, October 25th, 2018

About 6 week ago, my wife reached out to an old BF from high school on social media and met up with him without my knowledge or consent.

When I made a deal out of it, she threatened me with divorce because she wasn't going to "go through this shit with you" again.

So what happened? Did you rug sweep?

"The wicked man flees when no one chases."

posts: 3771   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2018   ·   location: Midwest
id 8273431
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stolenyears ( member #65758) posted at 9:12 PM on Thursday, October 25th, 2018

I think the gin/vodka argument will go on forever. Meanwhile, there are too many bourbons to try to get wrapped around the axle with which clear alcohol goes best in a martini. I'll be at the other end of the bar having a bourbon neat...

Now, for 64fleet and WAL, this is one of the biggest fears I have...that I will spend all this effort, energy, time and money on recovery only to have it happen again later down the road, like 10 years. I already feel like most of my 29 year marriage has been stolen from me and I didn't get to make a decision about my life...hence the user name. To have her start down the wayward path again at 10 years would make me feel like the previous 10 were for naught. These 'Seemingly Unimportant Decisions' definitely show a start down the slippery slope of waywardness.

I know that I have no guarantees with anyone, but this kind of stuff makes me want to just get a dog for loyalty and a sex doll for release and just disappear.

Me: BH
Her: fWW
Married: 30 years, kids 26, 23 and 16
DDay: 5-24-17, multiple APs
Current status: In Recovery

posts: 165   ·   registered: Aug. 8th, 2018
id 8273437
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Oldwounds ( member #54486) posted at 9:15 PM on Thursday, October 25th, 2018

Well, if I knew that, I'd probably be one of those celebrity relationship counselors trying to sell you my book and 6 week marriage boot camp, now wouldn't I?

I would actually sign up for a WAL relationship boot camp.

Instead of six weeks, I'm thinking it would be more like 72-hours of intensive, cut to the chase, real is real, no bullshit reality check.

Married 34+ years, together 40+ years
Two awesome adult sons.
Dday 6/16 4-year LTA Survived
Restoration takes time.
"Circumstances don't make the man, they only reveal him to himself." ― Epictetus

posts: 4180   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2016   ·   location: PNW. The adventure continues.
id 8273443
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wincing_at_light ( member #14393) posted at 9:49 PM on Thursday, October 25th, 2018

We didn't rug sweep. That was just the tip of the iceberg, of course. It turned out that she'd unblocked OM (from 12 years ago) from social media and had been checking up on him. I don't know if there was contact because she deleted all of her messages...and I know enough from the first round, lo those many years ago, that she's never going to cop to anything for which I don't have proof.

That was my fault, of course. You might recall that I made a post a few months back about feeling like I'd healed up because I'd made an anonymous contribution to the OM's wife's funeral fund. Turns out that my wife saw that as both breaking NC and being cruel (i.e., "you're such a loser, you can't even pay for your wife's funeral"), so she needed to see how he was doing and if he was okay.

ETA: If you ever *do* want to get divorced, btw, ambushing your wife with a psychiatrist visit on a Monday morning is a good way to move in that direction. She was pissed, lemme tell you. I got all of the lectures about how I can't be trusted.

We hashed all of this out with her psychiatrist. For those of you out of the loop, my wife is bipolar. I know a manic episode when I see one, and we dealt with it accordingly.

[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 3:52 PM, October 25th (Thursday)]

You can't beat the Axis if you get VD

posts: 7084   ·   registered: Apr. 27th, 2007   ·   location: Indiana
id 8273465
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Oldwounds ( member #54486) posted at 10:08 PM on Thursday, October 25th, 2018

For those of you out of the loop, my wife is bipolar.

Ah. My youngest brother is bipolar. And one of my best pals, his wife is a much worse case than my brother. Before her official diagnosis, we used to have to go house to house and try to find her when she was in a deep manic phase.

I still think a WAL boot camp has potential.

Married 34+ years, together 40+ years
Two awesome adult sons.
Dday 6/16 4-year LTA Survived
Restoration takes time.
"Circumstances don't make the man, they only reveal him to himself." ― Epictetus

posts: 4180   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2016   ·   location: PNW. The adventure continues.
id 8273471
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stolenyears ( member #65758) posted at 10:44 PM on Thursday, October 25th, 2018

Thanks for the clarification...being the new kid on the block, I just took it at face value. The bipolar issue must add layers of complexity on top of an already shitty situation.

I still would lose my shit if my wife chose to 'check up on him' 10 years down the road.

Me: BH
Her: fWW
Married: 30 years, kids 26, 23 and 16
DDay: 5-24-17, multiple APs
Current status: In Recovery

posts: 165   ·   registered: Aug. 8th, 2018
id 8273484
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Tim3167 ( member #17195) posted at 1:06 AM on Friday, October 26th, 2018

Poking my head in.

My WW has had 2 periods of hooking up with coworkers spaced 9 years apart and hating herself for those actions in between until she starts again of course.

My last d day was May 2017. She has been in IC since DDay and has really tried to get that feeling of being wanted from other parts of her life like volunteering and church.

It all came to a head last week when I cornered into some new info from that time. She started having a breakdown and wanted to hurt herself. I ended up taking her to a behavioral hospital and admitted her for observation. Talking to therapists there as well as in a follow up meeting the therapists immediately keyed on undiagnosed bipolar disorder.

So here I am trying to absorb what that all means. I do truly believe she hates that person she was but not convinced she has the tools yet to conquer those demons.

She is still early in the diagnosis and has not started a med treatment yet. She did just start group therapy sessions.

I know that I’m fixating on this diagnosis right now maybe hoping it means she’s not that woman hooking up in offices and parking lots.

Anyway... just hoping to learn from people working with bipolar wives. We don’t have the official diagnosis yet but I think that should come next week from the psychiatrist.

[This message edited by Tim3167 at 7:06 PM, October 25th (Thursday)]

BH 50 (me)
WW (47) (posts as "Meeko")
DDay #1 11/18/2007
DDay #2 5/17/2017

posts: 211   ·   registered: Nov. 27th, 2007
id 8273554
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wincing_at_light ( member #14393) posted at 6:35 AM on Friday, October 26th, 2018

I'm not sure I've got a huge amount of advice for dealing with a bipolar spouse. If there's a panacea for it, I've never figured out what it is. At some level, to be married to someone who is bipolar, you have to be the sort of person who can roll with the punches and keep breathing.

I mean, even if we take infidelity completely off the table, my wife has said some horrific shit to me over the years when she was manic. If I wasn't someone who had a pretty firm grasp on my reality vs. her reality, that could have fucked me up.

My wife got her diagnosis shortly after D-Day (12 years ago), and she's been really careful about managing herself. With this most recent episode, I was a bit slow on the uptake because it's been so long since she was manic. It took a couple of long, sleepless nights for me to put my finger on the feelings of unease I was having -- dealing with some actions that I won't elaborate on here, but that were completely out of character for her. (I think of those as my "Who the fuck am I married to?" moments.) Ultimately, it took slowing down my own emotional train and recognizing my feelings and the times in our marriage when I'd felt them before to open my eyes to what was going on.

(And then finding the ballsack to actually do something like drag her to her psychiatrist. Which was terrifying- - consciously taking an action that you know very well might just flat end your marriage and blow up your home if it doesn't work out. It's harder than one might think, and there's no way of backing out of a blatant statement that essentially says "I think my wife is off her nut". Most of us don't go actively looking for those sorts of moments. Given that you dragged your wife off to the hospital, I'm guessing you also know that feeling.)

When you're married to someone who is bipolar, you can do the 100% right thing for the situation and for them and you're still going end up bruised and bloodied for it (not literally). And then accept that your spouse probably won't ever clearly remember what happened during that phase, won't be able to connect it to their own emotional experience of their own life. With this most recent episode, my wife didn't even ever apologize for all of that shit. She got right and she moved on. The things that she said to me and things she might have done are my memories to carry alone. You have to get good at that, too, because no one is ever going to validate your experiences. Your spouse is never going to look at you and say "You pulled me back from the brink and saved us before it all went to hell." I've heard it said that bipolar folks tend to remember emotional truths rather than factual ones. Which means that what my wife remembers is that she was angry with me and I made her do a bunch of shit she didn't want to do. I was the over-reacting asshole raining on the parade. That's the image of me that's likely to stick in her head when she thinks back to the late summer and early fall of 2018. The actual things said and done are just footnotes, if they're remembered at all. You have to know your own reality and be able to patch up your own wounds and carry on.

You probably know that given how long you've been married, but you've never consciously thought about it as a life skill. Having an actual diagnosis helps with that instead of just being stuck with the vague sense that your life is unpredictable and occasionally out of control. It also helps with being able to avoid internalizing some of the shit you've learned to endure as just a "normal" part of being married. I'd like to think it's love that keeps it all together, but I suspect it's more just a commitment to doing the next right thing for you and your family, no matter how hard that is.

If you haven't done it yet, I suggest you start reading up on bipolar disorder. While it doesn't excuse anything, I found a great deal of comfort in learning about it, because suddenly whole pieces of my life experience started making sense in ways they never had before. (My wife is Bipolar 2, which is probably the case with your wife, as well. If she was Bipolar 1, you would have figured it out long before now. Bipolar 1 tends to have more extreme delusions that are clearly outside the realm of objective reality. Bipolar 2 is more of a generalized set of crazymaking patterns and behaviours.)

I'm trying to find a way to talk about this that doesn't sound like I'm just bashing my wife, because I really don't want to do that. But I'm also not letting her off the hook by making it sound like I'm fighting some third party force that takes her over and makes her do some terrible, hurtful, soul-destroying things. There's not some hidden *her* inside there that needs to be saved by some miraculous exorcism. She is what she does, and she's done all of those things, and the struggle of a spouse of a mentally ill person is finding a way to love them through that rather than in spite of it. As the old saying goes, you have to learn not to take their actions personally, even when they're meant that way. It's the same sort of process for coming to grips with infidelity where you have to learn that the affair wasn't about you (but, oh, fuck yes, it absolutely is about you).

Not sure if this is helping, because it's all pretty high level stuff. If you want to have a discussion about actual things to do: strategies, preventative measures, day-to-day management shit, we can do that, too. I'm a little hesitant to go there because I've only ever been married to one bipolar wife, so I'm not sure I can generalize what's (more or less) worked for us vs. what will work with your wife.

You can't beat the Axis if you get VD

posts: 7084   ·   registered: Apr. 27th, 2007   ·   location: Indiana
id 8273673
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Tim3167 ( member #17195) posted at 10:55 AM on Friday, October 26th, 2018

Thanks so much for taking that time to respond WAL. I think I’m so early with this diagnosis that it’s sinking in still. Her normal IC didn’t see her as Bipolar but the therapists associated with the hospital were concerned he never even asked her those questions. He told me (also my Therapist) that they look at cases through that lens.

I know each case is different but I’m nit sure I’ve seen it in other parts of her life. I do know that when this all seemed to start when she lost her job and went to a new job that could be considered more glamorous with lots of travel included. She started training for a marathon lost a bunch of weight and started getting new attention. She gets very surprised someone would want her and it seems she has no creep radar. She does whatever they suggest to keep that feeling going. No romance involved, just using sex as a tool to get that high of them wanting her. Of course I didn’t see that at first. I just saw someone seeming more confident. It’s like she started s second life living off that high. My problem is through my eyes how does a guy calling you down to his office when he wants a bj make you feel good and wanted? It just seems so weak of character.

The difference with her is when she gets discovered she hates herself and her actions so much. She does apologize and seems to really be stripped raw down to shame and self loathing.

This is why it confuses me that 8 years later she starts back up when she loses some weight again and blocks all that previous pan and self loathing away. Maybe the obsession with weight loss is the sign of the start of a manic phase?

I’ve been reading about hyper sexuality and tbh that part doesn’t quite fit. It’s more how she used that tool to be liked by people who weren’t supposed to. She like wasn’t sure super horny at home. If I recall it was just normal with us.

I suppose I will try to learn more as she does to see if this diagnosis feels right. Maybe it’s the intersection of her issues from FOO and a manic episode, who knows.

I do know she was reckless, didn’t think of anything except getting that high putting her career and family st risk and now hates herself enough for it to want to hurt herself.

Until now I saw it as weak character and dangerous coping skills to this point but will try to learn more.

I do feel that besides the fucked up shit she did in the past I have removed myself from infidelity in the present. For the past 19 months she has been a different person ( although gained a bunch of weight), maybe in a depressed phase. She dresses completely different at work and just lots of other changes. It’s what makes it so hard to understand the other behavior. I’m obviously concerned it could come back though years later and I again too comfortable in life to see it. Although after reading a suicide note she wrote I don’t see how I could ever be that comfortable again to miss it. I thought our first R was based on a fling with a coworker based on bad boundaries. I had no idea of the true shit show so my radar was just up with getting too close in like a real relationship at work.

Anyway I’m just firehosing everything in my head right now. Hopefully my future updates will be a bit more concise.

We are in separate bedrooms since she came back from hospital. I told her I just need us to try to restart from a healthier and more intentional spot and not just continue as normal. We’re still not totally sure if the marriage itself can survive but right now we are co- parents and companions while we try to figure this out. I think it also just allows me time to be pissed. The new info isn’t new but of course feels new to me. The new info was a whole new guy at work that was a hook up partner during both periods of cheating. So a new guy and bigger windows of cheating.

She has her wristband from the hospital with her photo looking pitiful on it. She’s carrying that in her purse and says she will to remind herself of how low this all took her.

Thanks for letting me I guess almost journal here, I am trying my best to look out for myself in s situation where most would run far and fast and that comes with a lot of self doubt for sure.

[This message edited by Tim3167 at 5:01 AM, October 26th (Friday)]

BH 50 (me)
WW (47) (posts as "Meeko")
DDay #1 11/18/2007
DDay #2 5/17/2017

posts: 211   ·   registered: Nov. 27th, 2007
id 8273728
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steadychevy ( member #42608) posted at 1:46 PM on Friday, October 26th, 2018

I'm sorry, WAL. It was a rhetorical question that went flat. You and Tim have a lot on your plates and show more strength than I have.

BH(me)70; XWW 64; M 42 yrs
DDay1-01/09/13;DDay2-26/10/13;DDay3-19/12/13;DDay4-21/01/14
LTA-09/02-06/06? OM - COW
"dates" w/3 lovers post engagement;ONS w/stranger post commitment, lies, lies, lies
Separated 23/09/2017; D 16/03/2020

posts: 4660   ·   registered: Feb. 27th, 2014   ·   location: Canada
id 8273797
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WornDown ( member #37977) posted at 2:02 PM on Friday, October 26th, 2018

Oh wow WAL. BP re-occurrence and breaking NC? Ouch. (Yeah that BPII can be sneaky)

I hope things get better.

I found a great deal of comfort in learning about it, because suddenly whole pieces of my life experience started making sense in ways they never had before.

Tim -

What WAL said is 100% true. Understanding what is going on helps you realize it's not you, that your not crazy, blowing things out of proportion (which is what you would be led to believe by your spouse).

As he said, it doesn't excuse it, just helps you understand the situation (much) better. Which allows you to make better decisions on how you react/respond.

[This message edited by WornDown at 8:03 AM, October 26th (Friday)]

Me: BH (49)exW (49): Way too many guys to countThree kids (D22, D21, S18)Together 25 years, married 18Divorced (July 2015)

I divorced a narc. Separate everything. NC as much as humanly possible and absolutely no phone calls. - Ch

posts: 3351   ·   registered: Jan. 2nd, 2013   ·   location: Around the Block a few times
id 8273808
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Tim3167 ( member #17195) posted at 2:27 PM on Friday, October 26th, 2018

Thanks Worndown.

Read your story on your profile. Wow. Parts of that sound so familiar. So here I sit a week after my own wife got diagnosed with Bipolar after committed to hospital due to suicidal behavior.

Can I ask if your wife st that time embraced and wanted treatment? Did she acknowledge the severity of the situation and at least want to try to get better?

My wife is currently at her second group therapy session and is going to ask for a new therapist that might be able to help her through this bipolar treatment path. I see she at least wants to work on this.

I will say she is not downplaying this at all to me.

[This message edited by Tim3167 at 8:28 AM, October 26th (Friday)]

BH 50 (me)
WW (47) (posts as "Meeko")
DDay #1 11/18/2007
DDay #2 5/17/2017

posts: 211   ·   registered: Nov. 27th, 2007
id 8273816
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wincing_at_light ( member #14393) posted at 2:53 PM on Friday, October 26th, 2018

I'm sorry, WAL. It was a rhetorical question that went flat. You and Tim have a lot on your plates and show more strength than I have.

No problem at all, man. As you can see, it prompted some details that I would have glossed over otherwise that have been useful in sparking additional discussions.

You can't beat the Axis if you get VD

posts: 7084   ·   registered: Apr. 27th, 2007   ·   location: Indiana
id 8273833
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sisoon ( Guide #31240) posted at 7:24 PM on Friday, October 26th, 2018

Oh, wow, w_a_l. If you've written about your story since I joined, I missed it.

Why did you stay? That's a real question (but I do not intend to place you under any obligation to answer).

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 26031   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8274093
Topic is Sleeping.
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