SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

seems completely counterproductive if the true goal is rebuilding a meaningful relationship

Maybe this is the crux of the debate. As a bh, I did "demand" sexual acts. But it wasn't for the purpose of rebuilding anything. It wasn't a tit for tat revenge.

I asked for those sexual acts previously denied to me as a method of determining whether I wanted to reconcile or not. It was one of several gauges used in the few months that followed dday. I also used a postnup. I also used transparency. In the frantic mindset one has right after dday, I probably used a hundred gauges.

This one just happens to be a big one. If she had refused (which is her right), then I would have proceeded with the divorce that was underway.

If she had refused the postnup, same result.

But she didn't, and it led to hysterical bonding, which is a lot of sex. A lot.

Like a marathon of sex.

But I think that's part of what I'm trying to point out that might help relieve some of the pain. In her mind, the WW might not have thought of it as giving herself to the AP. In her mind, she might have just been giving him sex although more likely getting sex. Which I realize is the part that hurts the BH but maybe it wouldn't hurt as much if he realized or understood that it wasn't the love part in her mind.

Nope, that would actually hurt worse. Because it means the only reason she did these things is because she was so horny for the OM, more horny than she's ever been for me.

But, I hope that some WW do see it this way, not with the OM, but with their H's. Because, while sex is a giving act (if you're doing it right) it should also be about personally enjoying it for both partners. So I do hope my wife doesn't see sex with me as "giving" I hope she sees it as "getting", getting love, intimacy, closeness, orgasms..

I asked for those sexual acts previously denied to me as a method of determining whether I wanted to reconcile or not. It was one of several gauges used in the few months that followed dday. I also used a postnup. I also used transparency. In the frantic mindset one has right after dday, I probably used a hundred gauges.

Same here. Like I said what feels like 100 pages ago, all the kinky ass sex in the world won't help if there's still TT, still contact with the AP, or other things in the way. But, once that's stopped, it's probably the most important "gauge" for me of how "in" my wife is in our marriage.

And the needle on that gauge has all the acts that I listed out on it. Starting with holding hands, ending with anal sex. That's just how I see it, and have seen every relationship I've been in, sex is a gauge for how intimately connected you are with a woman, or, more generally, how much she likes/loves you.

@josiep, I agree with most of what you are saying. There is some distance on a few issues here that I believe are simply an element of man vs. woman.

I haven't told you that sex isn't love. I believe men do see it that way more than women do but it's not cut and dried.

But women in this thread HAVE said that.

Again, if this was anything other than sex, no one would even whisper in disagreement.

I wanted a llama farm, she said she hated llamas, she bought him a llama farm, I want llama farm equivalency or better (which I would assume would be an alpaca farm?).

People would shout her down about her llama denial. How dare she keep llamas from the man who raised her children with her?

Oh, come on, guys, don't you know by now that a little subtle foreplay goes a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGG way?

Also this... Am I the only one who is upset by the message that it is our responsibility as a BH to seduce our WWs to get what we want sexually? I could swear we tell Ws that it is their job to do the heavy lifting here. This is not a dead-bedroom forum, this is an infidelity forum.

Just work harder XHZ700. Make more money. You almost have the pick-me dance perfected. Vacuuming is a turn-on.

I remember well the conversation where my WW told me that she wanted to be courted and pursued by me. Only time I can remember that I was so angry I threw up.

So, by demanding performance of anything much less demeaning sex acts, ultimately results in “intimate/engaged sex”?

Not necessarily, but if its something you always wanted and your W did it with OM, then basically it says I gave all my body to a stranger but only willing to give half of it to my husband. I could see that as a roadblock.

We talk a lot about affairs being abuse. Is this tit for tat?

It can be if the act is unwanted by husband, but he wants to do it to demean or shame you.

What makes you believe that demanding these things will make your WS even want to attempt R?

I don't think many men are too interested in thinking about R after dday. Divorce or revenge are probably more common.

Sounds like a determination to exact what you firmly believe belongs to you at any cost even if it does traumatize and fuck them up a little bit more.

So, they would be traumatized by their husband performing said sex act on them, but not when the OM did it?? Thats fucked up. Poor WW.

I don't think many men are too interested in thinking about R after dday. Divorce or revenge are probably more common

.

Have you ever read this board?

Have you ever read this board?

If you keep feeding Randy, he'll just keep coming back every day.

thread jack.....this has to be in the top 5 most interesting threads i have participated in since i have been on here. And to go this long with people generally being respectful to each other...captivating and impressive.

Just curious, I will be very disappointed that I called XHZ a troll and I get my account suspended and XHZ calls me the same and he gets nothing.

If you keep feeding Randy, he'll just keep coming back every day.

Maybe I need to turn into a more ardent feminist that caves to the female whims to be more supported here. I will give that a try.

T/J xhz700, I just saw in your tagline that your divorce isn't even a week old. I am so sorry. I am imagining that was a painful day and that you may still be trying to wrap your head around that. Just wanted to say I am so sorry. I know none of us get married with the idea of being divorced from said spouse some day.

Also this... Am I the only one who is upset by the message that it is our responsibility as a BH to seduce our WWs to get what we want sexually? I could swear we tell Ws that it is their job to do the heavy lifting here. This is not a dead-bedroom forum, this is an infidelity forum.

No, I'm also a little upset with this message. If you'd just tried harder and been nicer to your W RIO, you would be the person getting these things, not the OM. Bullshit. Just pure bullshit. My W's AP was (as most are) a full of shit windbag, how the hell can you possibly be as "nice" as someone who's just saying whatever it takes to get sex without any thought, what so ever, about actually doing the things he promised? It's an impossible position. And it also makes this, subtly, my fault. Bullshit all the way around, IMHO.

Just curious, I will be very disappointed that I called XHZ a troll and I get my account suspended and XHZ calls me the same and he gets nothing.

You got suspended for calling me a troll? I had no idea that happened (the name calling or the suspension). I am assuming it was due to your ever so coy non-promotion of red pill ideals? Also, I wasn't calling you a troll, it was more of a reference to a cat that keeps coming back around. Maybe there isn't a huge difference there.

Maybe I need to turn into a more ardent feminist that caves to the female whims to be more supported here. I will give that a try.

I don't agree with a lot of what you post, and I will be honest that your red pill thread turned your volume down real low for me, but my intent was not to sincerely offend you. I get the attraction of the whole red pill thing, but it's a zero sum solution. Everyone loses.

I am reasonably certain that you are the only one in this thread accusing me of caving to female whims.

T/J xhz700, I just saw in your tagline that your divorce isn't even a week old. I am so sorry. I am imagining that was a painful day and that you may still be trying to wrap your head around that. Just wanted to say I am so sorry. I know none of us get married with the idea of being divorced from said spouse some day.

@SMS Yeah, there's a raw part, the part that feels like I failed something. It was like being married to a brush fire though. I know that there is nothing I could have done to make it work.

This week is better than pretty much every day since 12/21/2008 though.

Thank you for your kind words. I'm working it out. I'm slow, but I get there.

Well, first off I never was promoting red pill ideas only exploring them. You took what you wanted from that thread. In fact I am not a Red Pill Male as you have ascerted, but I do find some of their arguments interesting. Ignoring them won't make it go away, just like the burning of the beatles albums in the 60's made John Lennon go to Hell. Open your mind XHZ. We all weren't born in a Volkswagon van.

[This message edited by Randy1133 at 1:21 PM, February 20th (Tuesday)]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS

OOP's I'm slow, I meant this to be under Rideout's post

[This message edited by Candyman66 at 1:18 PM, February 20th (Tuesday)]

caving to female whims

Oddly enough, thats how I got great at sex.

Do-doo tish!

Open your mind XHZ.

/thread

I love getting oral. If my husband decided,years ago he no longer wanted to do that,for whatever reason, it would bother me,but I would accept it because I wouldn't want him to do something sexually that made him uncomfortable.

But, if after he cheated, I were to find out that he willingly,and enthusiastically, went down on OW, then yes, I would expect him to do the same to me.

If he refused, or didn't want to, then I would know it's not that he hates oral, but that he hates oral with me.

And, while he would be free to not have to do that, I would have to divorce him. Because it would be such blatant rejection, it would shatter my soul.

So while I understand what many of the women here are saying, I completely understand what the men are saying as well.

I am with Hellfire.

If a woman or a man did something sexual with their affair partner, then the betrayed party has a right to ask for the same in return. The wayward can say "no way", everyone has a choice, but that's their decision and then it is the choice for the Betrayed person to kick them to the curb for it.

I just don't see what the difference is between demanding a blow job with swallowing or anal or whatever was done in the affair, and demanding that a WH goes the distance with putting in time and effort to woo his BW just like he did with his AP.

It is about values, fundamentally, so I agree with everyone who said that.

Except...it is maybe less tangible what women ask for instead of men. A sex act is raw and some of these being discussed are down and dirty (but really very fun). Lots of the emotional acts of contrition that BWs ask for are less tangible, in a way less measurable, and probably easier to weasel out of, frankly.

But isn't this all about control, really? I mean, think about it. When he's got you in the ass, he's reclaiming and taking control and feeling more in control for those minutes. When she's got a guy who is suddenly spouting poetry and waxing rhapsodic and all that jazz (or whatever she might want), then she feels in control and as if she's reclaiming him via his time. Is it all about love languages, maybe?

I do understand that some women feel really uncomfortable thinking that this is the thing that men value, because immediately there is a very personal element to it, like, "is there really this much of a difference in the way I think versus what my man thinks?" That's an uncomfortable feeling for sure, and I'm sure not all men do feel that way. But I do think that many men really really really value sex, and yes they value it THAT much.

And I as a woman actually value that my man (who is not my xWH but my new beginning) values me sexually and comes after me all the time and is adventurous and all the rest...because my xWH did not. I appreciate my new beginning's drive because it matches mine.

What I really struggle with is, and maybe this is a different thread, but is this really a thing? That there are so many women doing so many different things with their affair partners that they didn't do with their Hs? And then why the hell is that? Why on earth would a woman take it in the ass from a stranger and not her husband? That's weird. That seems like some really aggressive acting out to me. Like, that's ALL about control, in my mind. "I won't do that with you, but I'll do that with him or anyone else..." doesn't that sound really controlling?

Of course I could be wrong about that.