SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I don’t know if you’re Married rideitout,

Please don’t talk about taking anyone to the cleaners during divorce. That’s nonsense talk without context in a marriage. Who did what, who gave up what. Who accelerated their career while the other stayed Home and watched babies? Could be either.

Not this thread, not this conversation.

I have yet to see a male give advice to up his game, give better oral, crawl in bed with another man fucking your wife, because hey, that’s true love and giving.

How many women have you seen want this as part of reconciliation? How many have you heard say this is what they are stuck on?

You can bet your worst smelling fart that I'd give the same advice to a woman as a dude if this was their speedbump.

I want my glasses,

I don’t even know where you brought the thought of children here. I have two awesome ones, this is a not, for me, anything to do with them.

I have yet to see a male give advice to up his game, give better oral, crawl in bed with another man fucking your wife, because hey, that’s true love and giving.

Then you aren't reading the same posts I am. Or you are, but you're not realizing that men and women value different things (in general). Where are all the posts demanding that WW's sign a post-nup, write more poetry, buy their men jewelry and take their BH's to dinner more often?

And, for the record, if a WH came on here and told me that he gave his AP oral and not his wife, you darn well better believe I'd give him exactly the same advice.

Hey ntv my friend!!!

Not the same advice as given by many males or sought by many females.

I have a window Into what I read here. My thread is specific to that.

Because I don’t give a crap about getting sexual justification or whatever it is.

Sex is one component to all of this.

Using the analogy of going down on a woman, lets say a wh went down on his ap after not doing it for his bw after years of her asking for it.

Would she be wrong in saying that if he wants to reconcile, among the other requirements, he would also have to do that more frequently?

Naw it's not the same. At least not universally. First of all, part of me would think - whatever you did with that woman, you're not doing to me....secondly, in bed - if my partner doesn't want to do it with me - I don't want it. Nothing worse than a pity fuck - or an obligation fuck.

My H's A wasn't physical although he would've traded years off his life and inches off his dick to have it become a PA. I KNOW - if OW would have wanted that, he would've started off by kissing her. You know - that passionate tongue in mouth making out. That's how his "courtship" started with me. He was a damned fine kisser. A year into our relationship, his OCD reared its ugly head. No more kissing. No more sharing a can of pop or a drag off his cigarette. I missed it but I understood the OCD made it uncomfortable and as much as I wanted it, it wouldn't have meant or felt the same if he was fighting a gag reflex to do it.

But with OW - he wouldn't have just grabbed her boob and started in on sex - he would have kissed her - full tongue - that would be the currency he'd have to pay to gain access to the next level of sexual contact.

If my H eventually left me after becoming physical with OW, he'd have continued the kissing for a year and then started refraining once he was secure in the relationship...just as he did with me. He can't fake it forever.

So now we're in R - knowing he'd eagerly kiss her passionately - do I make him do it? Do I want a fake version of my man - the POS he was with her? Giving me what I want as currency to buy his way back in? I don't want that. Frankly someone pretending to enjoy something sexual with me when it secretly revolts him - that does nothing for me.

Whatever our WS's became in their affairs - was that their true selves? Would they have maintained that level of debauchery forever if they moved in with AP and lived the mundane aspects of married life with AP? I don't think so...they'd eventually tire of the acting and become their real self.

I need honesty, authenticity, communication after dday. No more faking. No more pretending. But that's me...

[This message edited by sassylee at 8:53 PM, February 13th (Tuesday)]

I’m just not sure where the some male advice is really advice anymore.

Women are whores, men want whores, wayward women are idiots for giving into the men that want whores, you slut owe me a threesome.

Have we turned the corner from being advice driven to agenda driven?

Naw it's not the same

I think you nailed it with this sassy. It isn't the same. There's a variety of reasons its different, and RIO pointed out a bunch, but I think this is just another reason why we dudes have those two threads in ICR. I'm not generalizing when I say most men process things, value things, want things differently than most women--there's scientific evidence googleable to that effect.

I've done my best to explain the reasons behind sexual aspects, even went back and read it several times to try to see what steps I missed. I don't see any. I kinda think this is just an impasse for me, and I'm hoping another dude will come along with some greater words of wisdom like 'he vacuumed her floor and made her bed but hasn't done chores at home for seven years, what the hell? I ain't doing his laundry anymore. Not even a stray sock' and make everything click, cause I don't think I've been successful here in explaining it my way.

Equal sexual experiences has merit. I have yet to see a male give advice to up his game, give better oral, crawl in bed with another man fucking your wife, because hey, that’s true love and giving.

Some super disconnect here.

Truth. AND I read ALL THE TIME - men advising BH's to demand a prenup...it's not only women who want financial security after the threat of infidelity threatens to nuke our future.

Women aren’t whores categorically. But wayward wives are most certainly whores. And they maintain that status until they’ve done the tremendous introspection necessary to wholly reinvent themselves and earn the preamble wayward.

But I digress. Because the real issue is that the wayward should give everything and more to their spouse that they gave to their affair partner, whether it be blumpkins or first class tickets to Rio.

And if they don’t: they should be discarded at whatever time best suits the betrayed spouse.

Autonomy? Respect? They lost the right to either when they betrayed their vows.

Women are whores, men want whores, wayward women are idiots for giving into the men that want whores, you slut owe me a threesome.

I'll answer in order.

Some women are whores. Not all, not even most.

Men do NOT want whores. If we did, it's as simple as a few hundred dollars and a phone call. Many men DO want women who are sexually adventurous and daring with them, doing things that they've never done with other people. They want the "best" their wife has to offer, and yes, to many of us, that does mean the most extreme and intense sexual experiences.

Yes, I do think that most women are very misguided when they enter into an A, and I think they are idiots for giving up the "good stuff" to an AP. I think they are even stupider for not immediately realizing what they've done and putting their H first. But men do a similar thing, I think they are idiots too, so I'm equal opportunity here.

Who said anyone owed anyone a threesome? I'm not sure where that talk track is coming from. Yes; it's a common male fantasy. Yes, I think it would help some BH's heal. NO, it's not at all expected during R.

Planc,

You didn’t define male cheaters in your post.

I get it’s where you’re coming from. But again, that wasn’t my point.

But again, the whore. Which maybe proves my point.

Rideitout,

Come on, a three some,where that is only introduced after a betrayal? it’s a revenge fuck. Call it what it is is. Healing? Please. Then every betrayed here should be advised to fuck another in the presence of their wayward so we can heal.

We all need healing.

I'm with you, sassylee.

Nothing's worse than a fake fuck. Or fake poetry. Or fake presents, only given to get you off their back. Who the hell wants to live in a marriage where they are extracting things from someone who doesn't really want to give them? What does that even accomplish? Is that who you want to be for the next 50 years? The guy who gets anal because he "made it a condition of R"? Is that even real? Would you really rather have desperate "don't leave me" anal over vaginal sex with someone who loves you and wants to make you feel good? I don't get it.

WH was never an equal partner. He would always do the bare minimum to keep me off his case, no matter the setting (house cleaning, yard work, sex, etc.), and would leave everything to me unless I got mad. Then, he would be super husband, super stud, whatever, for however long it took for me to relax, before he'd go back to being lazy.

When (after 6 months of wreckonciliation), I finally said I was done with the marriage? Oh, now he's all UP in that housework! Dude learned how to operate a washing machine! He volunteers to watch the kids overnight! He tells me I look nice. He offers to cook.

You know what it all means to me? It means he doesn't want to lose his life. It doesn't mean that he loves me. He doesn't. Maybe he never did, I don't know. If he had loved me, he would have been washing dishes next to me after the first time I told him it bothered me.

If your wife withheld sexual favors from you, and gave them to the OM, she doesn't love you. Period. The end. Extracting sexual favors from her may make you feel more powerful, but it's not going to fill up the hole inside of you that needs love and acceptance. Don't debase yourself by demanding something that should be given freely. Get out of that marriage and don't look back.

GreenEyes, I hold no greater view of promiscuous males than females.

Karma, an unwilling marionette and keeping the kids full time is better than true love and having the kids half-time, in my opinion. But that is a subjective, personal choice.

Maybe I could stomach the advice of "Give your BH anal"!if it came after NC, transparency, remorse, empathy, honesty, and IC. Because if those thinks aren't in place - all the anal in the world isn't going to repair the marriage or heal the BH. What it will do is give the BH a sense of vengeance while he gets his ducks in a row to divorce.

I know after dday, once I decided R was worth attempting, I wanted a better sex life. I wanted to repair our intimacy. I didn't ask for diamonds or even a prenup. I wanted a healthier marriage. Is wanting a healthy marriage strictly a female thing? Is coercing a partner into sexual activities part of a healthy relationship? If yes - then why weren't men demanding it and threatening divorce before infidelity?

Men know they have affairs for sex, women just don’t get it.

I am a guy. I drive big trucks and use hand tools and operate machinery.

I had an emotional affair. Straight up EA. No sexting, no future faking. I craved emotional intimacy more than sex. I sought it outside my marriage. In the midst of the EA I wanted to share every impression and thought with the AP before my wife, and valued her reactions more than my wife's. A stereotypical "chick" EA.

People are really, really varied. Even bell curves have fat tails.

Plan C,

You have 4 children. Are you modeling the type of marriage you want them to have? They will learn what relationships are supposed to look like by watching you and your wife. What are you teaching them right now? Imagine your daughter being treated as an "unwilling marionette." Are there any circumstances that make you ok with that?

If not, get the fuck out of that marriage. Seriously. I would much rather have come from a broken home than lived in one my whole childhood. Divorce is not the worst thing that can happen to your kids.

My situation is atypical for many reasons—which I will not go into again on this thread. My xww does live with me. She has never denied me anything she offered her affair partners. In my household I am the one who performs on demand because her libido is far greater than mine. But if she were to deny me the things she offered others, I would have little tolerance.