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Lovely warning sign, staff!

I agree with the sentiment.

I believe MrsWalloped came here to ask us questions, although she has been incredibly gracious in answering so many of ours. I cannot imagine that she came here to rehash her A and 2 1/2 years of R.

It's just my personal opinion, but I think we could help her a bit better by treating her as an individual with her own story and not as a 'curiosity.'

[This message edited by Unhinged at 10:24 AM, March 4th, 2018 (Sunday)]

^^^^^^^ THIS!!!

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏㈇ 9;👏, Unhinged!

Hi Marz,

Most info says 2-5 years for these issues to settle out. Are you set for the long haul?

Yes, absolutely (we are two and a half years from DDay now).

With technology today for some reason in a lot of affairs there seems to be embarrassing pics, vids of the affair. I'm not sure in your case but if so are you affraid of these coming out later?

No, there isn’t anything like that. We didn’t have any explicit texts or pictures. There weren’t any love notes or emails or things like that. I did t really communicate with him while at home. It was really only in Manhattan. We did take a few selfies (outdoors) but my husband and I deleted them.

I suspect you've learned a lot since posting and reading here.

Do you find it helpful, therapudic?

Reading? OMG yes! So so much. People’s struggles, their pain, issues I can relate to, getting a glimpse of a BS’s pain, I e learned so much and it’s pushed me to evaluate my actions and things my husband says or does. It’s been super helpful.

About my own posts like this thread, yes. Mostly. It’s why I don’t mind answering questions. Each time I’m forced to revisit something I can look at it from a different point a view.

The most helpful parts are where I’ve learned things about myself, or how I’m approaching R or getting a better understanding of my husband’s viewpoint and his pain and issues. I’ve thought a lot about a lot of different things, about where my motivations were more selfish than concern for him (or maybe a combination), and my need for attention and feeling good about myself and how I deal with my own demons and what it means for us. The posts and conversations that made me think have been really helpful. And I’ve discussed some things here with my IC.

Even the questions that are harsh or projections are okay to me. When I answer, I have to work at not being defensive. I have to think about things in the past from a fresh perspective. And sometimes I find out things, like an aha moment, that helps me understand my behavior back then. And I also have to combat my natural tendency to paint myself in a positive way. I work at being real when I respond. I try to be as honest and authentic as I can, because I believe that’s one of the benefits of posting here. It helps me be that person, otherwise it’s all just a waste of time.

The things that are not helpful are the personal attacks disguised as advice or questions. I understand people are in pain and I’m so sorry they are but I really don’t see the point of it. It’s not even that it’s so upsetting. It just seem pointless to me. So that’s not helpful.

Also, when people ask me detailed questions about something my husband posted. I haven’t read his posts. They are his and his alone. He did share a very edited version of them with me a few years ago. He called them his journals and we went over them together once every few months. I now know they were his SI threads. But they were edited in a Word document. So a lot of details that people here seem to know, I don’t.

I have two examples where one was not helpful and the other was. Someone mentioned something about a Ms. La di da and asked me about it. I still have no clue who she is so it’s not helpful. When it’s to satisfy your own curiosity it’s not very productive. Someone else mentioned Fudgegate. I didn’t know what that was either but when it was explained, I had to revisit my thoughts and feelings at that time and I found that hard but therapeutic, and I got to learn what my husband was feeling and his thought process and that was more precious than diamonds to me. I never knew his internal battle and how he was fighting his natural self and how it made him question me and how I could do what I did to him when he so clearly thought of me all the time. It forced me to revisit that whole episode in a new light and also think about our interactions since then. It’s something I still discuss at IC and I’m happy and grateful someone brought it up.

Hi Unhinged.

I just said the same thing!!!

It’s more involved than that, but if it’s just a curiosity thing then I don’t think it’s helpful or productive. But if it helps me examine things and makes me think and view things differently, then I’m happy to be part of it.

[This message edited by MrsWalloped at 10:23 AM, March 4th (Sunday)]

I haven’t read the e tire thread. It’s pretry long. Maybe I can get through it at a later time by for now I just wanted to tell you that there are so many similaritu s in what led up to my wh being able to cheat as yours.

We did have a miscarriage but it was many many years ago. I often wonder if not being able to have another ever really upset him.

However, his upbringing, while different, led him to the same thoughts of never being good enough. For him, it was the constant being xo pared to his older brother. Older brother being better always. Why can’t you be like your brother. That kind of thing. Not so much just his parents but sometimes them and then teachers and coaches etc. plus being abandoned by his dad.

It all led to him always needing outside validation. Mow gave it to him in spades and like walloped-ego nibbles coming from me were expected so they were never enough.

I think many ws’s stories are so similar. Pretty much all of them come back to requiring outside validation from what I can tell. It’s sad really that there are so many people that don’t have enough self esteem all on their own.

I agree that foo plays a part in it. It has to. Many of us also have foo but have never cheated. I assume it’s because we were somehow able to find healthy coping skills that ws’s didn’t. Why? I don’t know, but this site seems filled with foo for both the ws and bs.

My wh told mow, it could never happen again after the first time. He remained friends with her, which was a fatal mistake. After another 7 years of keeping the friendship a secret, they started having sex again.

It’s interesting how he has no idea why he couldn’t let go of the friendship l, even when there was no sex. He said he did nothing wrong during the 7 year friendship but then realized that it was wrong because he was keeping it a secret. He needed it to be secret because he needed the validation she gave him and he didn’t want me to put an end to it of course.

When I busted him, he didn’t look back. After having the need to have this friendship and ego kibbles for so long, he said he never missed it once after dday. Never felt the desire to call and to this day he doesnt remember ever feeling anything for her.

The fantasy is like a drug and the ws is an addict. He couldn’t stop on his own. He needed to hit rock bottom and rock bottom was seeing the pain he caused me.

It’s really unfortunate that so many people have to be hurt in the process.

To me, it feels like you and walloped are doing really well and well on the road to being healed. I wish you both well.

I really appreciate your posts. They help other bs’s understand their own ws and I am sure they will help a lot is ws’s understand thems lives better.

Mrs W,

It's harder to understand when you aren't on the receiving end but I think you're getting and have gotten a good flavor of it somewhat.

IMO, it can't be anything but helpful. Even with some of the bad that comes along with it.

For the most part I think it's been fairly respectful considering all the triggers that have been pulled from others painful past experience/memories.

I doubt you'd have gained as much with a stop sign.

Smart move on your part.

Reading? OMG yes! So so much. People’s struggles, their pain, issues I can relate to, getting a glimpse of a BS’s pain, I e learned so much and it’s pushed me to evaluate my actions and things my husband says or doe

I have seen this done before. It seemed to give some closure to the waywards in those circumstances.

You and they were gracious even in the heated moments that sometimes boil over. I think it does show and take remourse to be able to acknowledge and give insight as well as the capability to rake away very valuable wisdom and clarity to help yourselves through this time.

MrsWallopped, your story sounds incredibly similar to my WWs. She was in it for how he made her felt, did whatever he wanted to keep those good feelings , compliments, adoration and emotional support at work.

It's really great that you've been able to own everything completely, put the work in and stay for the long haul. I see signs of my WW doing that too.

The problem for me is that I was completely neglected for the 4 years her affair was happening so even though she's remorseful I can't get over the lack of sex, attention, love and affection for so long. It wasn't an exit affair she said but more about discovering a different part of her or something. It's something I'll never understand or forgive unfortunately. In our case I don't R is possible. We are separating now and all signs point to D. I still love her but I can't move past this ultimate betrayal.

I have a Master's Degree in Wallopedology. There is a trove of insight, experience, and knowledge on your husband's threads. Not just his posts. Everyone else's. Of course a little bullshit, but not much I don't think.

If you found value in the fudge thing, I can only imagine how much more you would get from the rest.

I really think he should let you read it all. Truth is truth. However, since he doesn't want that, I wonder if he would let you access the posts that he didn't write.

I've thought it would be great to have one of those one man plays based on your husband's threads. Have one guy do all the parts- dressed one way if he's a psychiatrist, another way if he's the man whose mother cheated on his dad for his whole childhood, etc. They would look directly into the camera & recite their posts out loud. Have a woman do the female posters. 2 actors.

I think it would be a source of infidelity knowledge for people who don't read internet boards. Could be titled 'Smashed'. Based on a true story!

Probably be some kind of copyright violation. Oh well.

[This message edited by LostToOM at 4:45 PM, March 4th (Sunday)]

Someone else mentioned Fudgegate. I didn’t know what that was either but when it was explained, I had to revisit my thoughts and feelings at that time and I found that hard but therapeutic, and I got to learn what my husband was feeling and his thought process and that was more precious than diamonds to me. I never knew his internal battle and how he was fighting his natural self and how it made him question me and how I could do what I did to him when he so clearly thought of me all the time. It forced me to revisit that whole episode in a new light and also think about our interactions since then. It’s something I still discuss at IC and I’m happy and grateful someone brought it up.

Phew, thanks for that Mrs Walloped. I was getting a bit worried that bringing this up in such detail would be viewed by you as hurtful and some sort of attack, which it was never intended.

I am pleased you took it in the spirit it was meant as an example of your husband's unconditional love and not a roundabout way to have a dig at you.

The respect in which both you and your husband are held is shown in the number of heavyweight posters (not literally that is, although probably some are lol) who have made their invaluable contributions to your threads. Praise indeed.

p.s. LostToOM mentioned you reading your husband's thread. I understand that that is your husband's safe place and should be respected but you would see that he spent most of his time, as I recollect, praising and defending you and that continued in later posts on other threads. Obviously there was deep soul wrenching pain as well but his love for you shone through and influenced many of us to be your supporters even before you started posting. I think you are a very lucky person to have him in your life.

So it was a bit of a shock to see that he mentioned the D word during this summer, particularly after the impressive way you dealt with your daughter's marriage last year. I think that just emphasised to everyone how difficult reconciliation and recovery really is.

p.p.s. I hope this post gets him off doing the dishes a few nights this week!

[This message edited by SorrowfulMoon at 5:46 PM, March 4th (Sunday)]

p.s. LostToOM mentioned you reading your husband's thread. I understand that that is your husband's safe place and should be respected

I’ll ask him about it but it’s his decision. Honestly, I get the feeling he wants to protect me from what people have said about me and from his own words. He said he was so angry and vented here. How could he not be angry. I think I’d like to see what he said and how people responded to him. I hope it will help me see his pain through his eyes. But, it’s really up to him.

but you would see that he spent most of his time, as I recollect, praising and defending you and that continued in later posts on other threads. Obviously there was deep soul wrenching pain as well but his love for you shone through

Thank you for telling me that. I don’t understand how he could given what I did to him. I’d like to think I would do the same for him, but I’d be kidding myself. I’d be a mess of tears and I’d be screaming and pulling my hair out. But not him. I know. I don’t deserve him. Thank you again for telling me.

So it was a bit of a shock to see that he mentioned the D word during this summer...I think that just emphasised to everyone how difficult reconciliation and recovery really is.

It’s one of the reasons why I’m here. To try and figure out what stalled in our R. Is there anything I can learn about myself or learn to think and do differently that can help me and help him? But yes, don’t let anyone tell you R is not hard work without any guarantees of success.

I think you are a very lucky person to have him in your life.

More than you know. I am not just lucky, but grateful and blessed. I’m just so ashamed and mad at myself that I chose not to see that when it mattered most.

p.p.s. I hope this post gets him off doing the dishes a few nights this week!

Definitely! And “more” too!

Someone mentioned something about a Ms. La di da and asked me about it. I still have no clue who she is so it’s not helpful.

She is the director of the organization at which you and your AP volunteered.

She is the director of the organization at which you and your AP volunteered.

Oh. Okay. Strange name for her, but I guess it fits. She tries to pass herself off like she’s high society and acts like she’s Katherine Hepburn in The Philadelphia Story but she’s like anybody else and grew up in Brownsville (part of Brooklyn that is now like East New York - it’s where Bugsy Siegel and the rest of the gangsters were all from).

Thanks for clearing that up.

SorrowfulMoon & Foley5 have less fear of that Death's Head than I do.

So your H mentioned the idea of divorcing last summer. Was it a lasting feeling? Or was is momentary?

I'm 5 years out - closer to 6 now and the idea pops up in my mind occasionally. It's part of the roller coaster. I might even post about it if I'm struggling. Reconciliation isn't linear. I see it as spiral, like a spring. It circles back around on itself but but as it grows higher the spring is wound looser, so there's more time between circling back on the pain. Every now and then there's a kink in the spring when other factors put pressure on an otherwise smooth reconciliation. Wish I could convey the visual better to show what I mean.

At 2 years out I was struggling with R because the trauma was subsiding. We were no longer cleaving to each other desperate to save the marriage, because the marriage was surviving...thriving even. So normalcy returned and it was terrifying. I felt security discussing the affair and hearing my husband detail his remorse and regret...seeing his pain for what he'd done. But as we heal, there's less of that. Here's fewer and fewer things to say about that time period. So that caused some insecurity in my mind and I started questioning where our R was heading. But it was a blip....I shared my thoughts on our new normalcy and my H saw that while we were no longer in the ICU of healing, there needed to effort to continue communication and not fall back into pre A habits....he still needed to do the work and I had to accept that normal was a safe place to be.

So what's your take on this D talk of last summer. Was it merely a dip in the roller coaster? Did things smooth out?

I'm sure that by now you've noticed a repetitive bunch of posters on your thread. Seems that a lot of them have a knowledge from your husband's perspective because they were around when he was dealing with his trauma. I personally don't know that backstory so well other than what I've read on here through some of the comments on this thread.

It seems like there are a lot of similarities, or at least relatable issues between your story and ours. Almost the same age, who had the A, the FOO, ect. Of course, they obviously are not the same stories or circumstances. I have honestly learned a lot through reading your responses, and your ability to answer questions that I wanted to ask my wife, yet maybe I was afraid to ask.

Since you and your husband are much further along in your R, one thing I wanted to ask you about is, how do you deal with shame? This has been a tremendous issue for my wife, so maybe you have some better insight. She has explained to our MC that she doesn't feel on equal ground as I am because of this. She feels like she shouldn't have a voice in certain arguments because of what she's done. I have made it a point never to call her any vicious names through this process, partially for her and partially for me. I think there's some things you can't ever unhear. I've never used this issue as an argument nuclear weapon that is thrown out there to win whatever argument we had. I do feel that her opinion is based mostly on shame, and I don't know how to help her get past that.

Finally, and I'm sorry that I've talked so long on here, I sincerely do appreciate you and your husband being willing to share your stories on here. You both seem like very intelligent people who unfortunately had to deal with the same things that everyone else on here has. Your ability to answer honestly without trying to defend yourself has been more endearing than you could possibly know. You and MrsWalloped being able to fight for reconciliation has been a tremendous help for not just me, but I'm sure a lot of other people. I sincerely appreciate that you're willing to take us on your journey.

Thanks!

Hi sassylee,

So your H mentioned the idea of divorcing last summer. Was it a lasting feeling? Or was is momentary?

So what's your take on this D talk of last summer. Was it merely a dip in the roller coaster? Did things smooth out?

A bit of both really. The D talk wasn’t because of anything I specifically did or didn’t do that my BH could point to. And same for him. It was a general feeling of inertia on his part. He felt like we weren’t a “normal” couple anymore and he couldn’t come to terms with my having an affair. He was frustrated with our lack of growth and connection. He was and is still adamant about not forgiving me (I don’t expect him to) and he connects that with accepting my affair which seems too much like condoning to him. He told me he posted here about it or with some SI friends personally. He couldn’t understand how I was able to do this to him and co e to terms with it. This was an attack on him and it came from me. He just didn’t see himself coming to terms with that. So it was a feeling of frustration that we weren’t growing so maybe R just wasn’t for us. Our whole past 2 years have been focused on my affair. IC appointments for both of us, MC appointments. We talk about what we learned and discovered, we read books. Everything is A related. We knew it wasn’t healthy but it’s how we existed other than kids and household stuff.

Anyway, it wasn’t a “I hate you let’s D” conversation. It was more like a “we’re not moving forward and it’s not fair to either of us so maybe R isn’t working and we should just D” conversation. There’s no urgency. I agreed that D might be the end result but instead of doing what wasn’t working we should try different things. It’s why I’m here. He told me that he was warned that it can take up to 5 years to heal from this so we had a ways to go so he’s patient.

He said he’s not interested in finding someone new and he’s not looking for another woman to make him happy. He wants to make himself happy and that’s what he’s trying to do. It’s about whether he can be happy with himself if he’s with me.

I don’t know if any of this makes sense at all, but it’s where we’re at.

Oh, and he’s on board for ballroom dancing! We haven’t done something fun like that since about a year or so before DDay. I’m getting recommendations of classes in our area. WooHoo!!!

Hi Trying2copeinMD,

questions that I wanted to ask my wife, yet maybe I was afraid to ask.

Personally, I think you should ask her whatever you need to. You deserve answers and it’s important for her to verbalize her actions and explain her mindset. I think it’ll be healthy for both of you. It might be painful and scary and you may not like the answers, but I think it’s important. Sorry, I thought you should know that.

how do you deal with shame?

Poorly.

Actually, I’m a lot better than I used to be but it’s one of the biggest hurdles I deal with now. It looks like you’re less than a year from your DDay. I was just like your wife for well over a year. I was a mouse that would tiptoe around my husband. I agreed with everything he said except if he was short with the kids. I was still scared to argue with him but I’d try to calm everyone down to avoid arguments with them. But otherwise whatever he wanted I agreed with even if I didn’t really. Part of it was shame and a feeling of inferiority. Part of it was scared that if he got upset he’d leave me. Part of it was feeling like I gave up all my rights once I broke our marriage vows. And part of it was that I literally had no energy. I was barely keeping it together with all my thoughts of how horrible I was and what I monster I was plus running the house and being “normal” in front our kids (even though some of them knew) that I had no strength in me to stand up for myself or even voice an opinion. And sometimes I didn’t hold on and I’d break down. I was a mess.

I had to learn how to deal with myself and my own internal dialogue. I know I posted to someone about books I read that helped. I’ll see if I can find that.

Ha! It was to you!

I’d recommend Brene Brown’s books and Healing the Shame That Binds You by John Bradshaw, and Self-Compassion by Kristin Neff, and After the Affair and How Can I Forgive You? by Janice Spring.

IC helped a lot. Is your wife in IC? I still struggle with this and it’s not healthy but I’ve become better and recognizing it when it happens and how to reframe my thoughts so they don’t become debilitating (my IC and I worked on Cognitive Behavior Therapy). They used to send me into a downward spiral of self-loathing. Now it’s different. It takes time and work.

Also, what do you want? Do you want her to be this way? Or do you want an equal partner? If you want her to have strong opinions and assert herself, then tell her. Tell her you want that and that it’s okay to disagree with you. My husband did. He was actually happy once because I snapped at him for something stupid. I don’t remember what it was exactly (it was dumb) but I remember what happened after because it was scary and comical at the same time. I snapped at him and then literally clapped my hand over my mouth in shock and just looked at him. He told me later the look I had was as if I just let out a monster fart druring Yom Kippur services. Anyway, he looked at me funny for a minute and then came over to me and stuck out his hand and said “Hi. I’m W. It’s nice to meet you.” And laughed and walked away. He said later that it was as if I was letting me be me again. And he was happy about that.

I hope that helps a little. And thank you for your kind words.

I am just popping in to thank you for your very helpful and sincere answers to me (my post was on page 7; your reply was on page 8). By the time I noticed your answer, your thread had fallen off the front page and I thought that perhaps it would be an act of kindness to NOT bring it back to the fore - surely you could use a break!

But since it's here again, I wanted you to know that I appreciated what you'd written. My own (W)H tries very hard, but some things are still ...well, we all have work to do, don't we?

Also, thank you for your candor, but also for making me laugh more than a few times. I'm not sure many people handle shame well, and I know it's not a funny subject at all, but your reply to Trying2copeinMD above made me laugh out loud. A bit of levity in tense times can be a lovely thing.

Cheers to you and your Mister, MrsW. I'm sorry that any of us has reason to be here, but I am so glad you've joined SI.

Anyway, he looked at me funny for a minute and then came over to me and stuck out his hand and said “Hi. I’m W. It’s nice to meet you.” And laughed and walked away.

God, he's a mensch. ROFLMAO. What a wise and loving response.

So, shame.

It's one of the biggies and it never really goes away. I have not read Brene Brown. I do know that many talk about moving beyond shame (a voice that says I am worthless and bad and can never be worth anything) to a different place.

That never entirely worked for me. It is always with me and I don't have the illusion that I have let go of it or released it. I guess instead I have tried to befriend it.

What sometimes helped me is to ask my shame, do you have something to teach me that I can act on today? Sometimes, it does. When I feel shame sometimes it is warning me that I am falling into old habits, like self pity or resentment. Sometimes it is teaching me compassion, making it easy to show love to someone else in shame and try to help them because I have been there.

So it can be a kind of friend. But it's a kind of stupid bumbling friend.

Sometimes I ask it, do you have something to teach me? and it just stands there with its hands in its pockets. I am not actually making old mistakes. I am not actually stuck in old patterns. It's trying to make me doubt myself and my worth when there actually isn't a cause now, today, in this moment. And them I have to learn not to listen to it in that moment.

So it is always with me to some extent. But now I try to listen to it when it is wise, and to clot it on the head affectionately and say "you're being a real d--k to me toda you lunkhead" when it is off base and trying to knock me off base.

It took a long time. And some days it doesn't work and we can't be friends.

[This message edited by Owl6118 at 12:30 PM, March 5th (Monday)]