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Actually it was sadder than that. Just after leaving the shop he realized what he had done. He had seen something he instantly knew you would love and automatically bought it for you. Then outside the shop the memory of what you had done and how he now must view his marriage flooded over him and he had an emotional breakdown standing there on the sidewalk. His friend had to comfort him.

Right, right. My memory isn't what it once was. It's interesting to know though that I'm not the only one who carried that story in my head.

40yxl. and Owl, I personally didn’t take Wallop’s words too mean so much when he obtained thefudgeinnSedona. The best I vacant remember, he+purchased the fudge,steppedc outside the shop nonchalantly, and then questioned whether it was the correct thing to d,o.

Subsequently, and if I remember correctly, Wallopeed gave Mrs. W upon his return hike visiting his children while living at hois brother’s place. Further, if I remember correctly, and factually, Walloped gave the. Sedona fudge to Mrs. W, whom cried; apparently for Walloped had done.

After that, and if I remember correctly, Mrs W. arttended a family picnic wherein Walloped experienced an affair-centric song, and Mrs. W.screamed that the song (there pina colada song) be turned off.

I’m not saying that Mrs. W is the perfect candidate for reconciliation based upon SI guidelines... nevertheless, and contrary to ManfromLaMancha’s blather, she is considerably better than many that have posted here.

This p doesn’t mean however that I think Mrs. W’s attempt is perfect. Nevertheless, I’m intelligent enough to comprehend that what Walloped, and Mrs. W, find to be correct in order to move forward with reconciliation is different than what I require. This is their life... not mine, your life,mor others.

They’ll figure it out by talking to each other. Maybe it’ll bo forward, and maybe it won’t. These are decisions Walloped, and Mrs. W. have to make on a day by day basis... although I hope they’ve moved to longer duration question8ng by now.

Cheers, Walloped and (Helena Bonham Carter lookalike) Mrs. W. If younwan5 to... you’ll get there!

Drumstick, you remember wrong. Walloped was happily buying the fudge for his wife and musing over how much she’d enjoy it. Once he checked out at the register and they stepped outside the store, his friend asked Walloped if he was okay. Walloped again remarked how much his wife would like the fudge. Then a moment later it hit him - he remembered her affair. And he broke down sobbing in public right there standing on the curb, fudge in hand.

Nothing nonchalant about it.

He did debate whether or not to give her the fudge (if it would send the wrong message), and decided since it was purchased for her, he would indeed give it to her.

So Fudgegate was pretty powerful and pretty sad. Definitely not a small thing.

I remember that. Not how he felt or his struggle. How could I know that? But when he gave it to me when he came back from Arizona. I still have the bag. I was so shocked when he gave it to me. I thought he was divorcing me. He was living by his brother and he went on this trip and he bought me something? It wasn’t expensive or flashy or anything like that. It was so much more valuable. It was just something he knew I loved (I love chocolate). I remember crying and running away from him because I thought I was going to go into hysterics and I couldn’t do that in front of him when he just came back.

I can tell you my feelings then. Shame, guilt, happiness and hope. When you’re married for so long you always buy each other things. I mean when you’re at the grocery store and you pick up his favorite flavor of Ben & Jerry’s. But this was his thing. He did it for everyone. His love language is Acts of Service. I didn’t know the term back then but I knew what it meant when he did it. It was just so natural for him to do things for the people he loved. I was so ashamed. How could he buy me something when I hurt him in the worst way a woman could? I didn’t deserve anything from him. And that also meant he thought of me in Arizona when I thought he was trying to forget me and if he thought of me even then how could I not think of him at all or ignore my thoughts of him when I was with my AP? But it also meant that he loved me. And I was so happy. That not all of him hated me. And it was also the first time I had any thought of hope that he might not divorce me and that we might stay together. I can tell you I made that fudge last so long. I know how all this sounds. Me, me, me. But that’s really what I was thinking at the time. I did not think of how he must have felt buying it for me or how he must have felt giving it to me.

Okay. I never knew what he went through. Thank you for sharing that with me.

[This message edited by MrsWalloped at 10:54 AM, February 18th (Sunday)]

A coworker told me I was developing the “frigid bitch” reputation. She did not tell me I was developing the “married woman with healthy boundaries” reputation among the male coworkers.

Different people will describe the same behavior in different terms. "Healthy boundaries" is the sort of language that decent people in good relationships use if they have to use any language; mostly they just refrain from commenting on what they see as normal behavior. "Frigid" is what men who are looking for something, or women who talk to men who are looking for something, use to describe the same behavior.

Basically, "frigid" means "I want some but have no chance" or "my male friend wants some and knows that he has no chance."

I have one last question...

If I'm remembering a different story, just say so. Lol.

But, I THINK once you found out the truth about OM, you felt played, betrayed even. To the point where you broke NC knowing it could mean divorce. Did you not once think to yourself if you felt that way after 5 months, how must W be feeling after 25 (or however long it was) years with you?

I also have a hard time understanding how you rationalize to yourself in making that call....I mean, doesn't that say that the phone call was more important than your marriage?

Or is the answer to everything I asked simply, "The fog", which truthfully, I don't believe in.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 2:01 PM, February 18th (Sunday)]

I want to add my voice to those encouraging you and MrW to take ballroom dancing classes.

My W & I have done it, and we'll do it again. It turns out we really like doing East Coast Swing.

We used to really like grinding, and I thought the lessons would teach us to do that better. I was wrong, but learning the patterns and then doing them at a dance hall is great fun in a different way.

GoldenR, I really do believe "the fog" is real. You have to experience it to believe it. No, I've never been a WS. Back in HS, I did have a long term gf for about 2 years that I cheated on with multiple girls, for no good reason. I was jealous that my gf had more experience than I did, and I wanted to even the score. I felt completely justified in what I was doing, not one bit guilty. I was able to compartmentalize it perfectly.

Now, that was 18-19 years ago. And I know 17 year old boys are idiots. I also realize that in the grand scheme of things, HS relationships mean very little as an adult. IMO, there is no "long time ago" statute of limitations. There's the memories that matter, and those that don't. And I remember it like it was yesterday. That fog was fucking real. I was completely at peace with the fact that I'd get a BJ from a girl on Friday night, and then have sex with my gf Saturday night. It was only after the relationship ended that I realized how toxic of a person I was.

I'm not at all comparing my schoolboy shenanigans to the Walloped's marriage. Just trying to show an example of how the fog is real. The word fog is the perfect way to describe the feeling, also.

[This message edited by Fenderguy at 3:12 PM, February 18th (Sunday)]

The ‘fog’ is about as real as Santa Claus. It’s what people who lie to themselves blame instead of addressing root cause issues.

Besides, it’s a moot point. The actual problem that represents 99% of the challenge is understanding how a wayward even got to the point of needing to talk about bullshit like ‘fog’.

———

I also want to address the ‘frigid bitch’ think.

That is *good*. It means that she’s forcefully establishing boundaries. Perhaps she is a bit ham handed over it due to recent events and being scared, but it’s very far from the things that she even kind of needs to address.

Besides, ‘frigid bitches’ can cheat just as much as, well unfrigid bitches (and I do hate that term so for the sake of this discussion let’s presume this means both male and female bitches)

Against MrsW, I did ask my wife about the ‘setting up’ thing. She absolutely says 100% if you are trying to ‘set up’ a guy it is a light form of flirting that is used to say ‘you’re a good mate but I’m not free, but if I wasn’t...’. I tend to agree with her. In addressing root causes I think MrsW needs to really address how the EA started and I think that it’s folly to dismiss this as friendly assistance.

[This message edited by Sharkman at 3:44 PM, February 18th (Sunday)]

But then there's the waywards that are in happy marriages. They cheat, leave their spouses and live forever with their APs. Are they in a forever fog?

I've been cheated on. A lot. I've seen the supposed fog up close. My ExWW even used it to try to come back to me and our 2 daughters over a year later after things went south with her AP.

The feelings are real until the WS gets caught and doesn't want a D. Then all of a sudden it's a fog they were in? Bullcocky.

The fog is simply a way to rationalize shitty behavior.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 4:26 PM, February 18th (Sunday)]

Did you not once think to yourself if you felt that way after 5 months, how must W be feeling after 25 (or however long it was) years with you?

I also have a hard time understanding how you rationalize to yourself in making that call....I mean, doesn't that say that the phone call was more important than your marriage?

If it helps you in any way, then I’m really truly happy to answer most questions. But if it’s just rehashing pieces of a story you were told more than two years ago, then I don’t see the point. I’m not saying that’s what you’re doing. I’m assuming this helps you understand things.

Anyway, I did think how he must have felt, a lot, but not really in the first few weeks. Only later. I was too focused on myself and what was happening to me. I was in pain knowing I caused all this pain for him, but a lot of my jumbled thoughts were very very selfish. And for the first week or two I was not thinking clearly about anything. About the phone call, I didn’t rationalize anything. Not then and not since. And no, it doesn’t mean that I thought the phone call was more important than my marriage. It means that I was scared, hurt, angry, shocked and a compete and total mess. I was living with my sister, my life just imploded (yes, as did his), I was just lost. That’s it.

I understand the need to analyze everything and question a WW’s behavior, particularly when the fact that you’re married to a WW to begin with is such a slap to the face. But not everything is so black and white. How I acted during the first three weeks or so compared to how I’ve acted since is different.

The feelings are real until the WS gets caught and doesn't want a D. Then all of a sudden it's a fog they were in? Bullcocky.

The fog is simply a way to rationalize shitty behavior.

Maybe. I’ve read about the fog here. I don’t know that I’d call what I was thinking during my affair a fog. I don’t think I’ve ever used the term. But what you’re saying is a very cynical viewpoint. As if saying it’s a fog is simply a convenient excuse. Like a criminal who falsely pleads insanity. I don’t think that’s fair either. What I mean is that if you use “the fog” as a way to say “Oh, I was in a fog, don’t blame me” then I think that’s bullcocky like you said. However, if “the fog” is a simpler way to say “I have a whole host of issues that were contributing factors to why I betrayed my husband, but I am completely to blame and I knew what I was doing was wrong but those issues warped my feelings and thinking in a way so that I made the worst choices possible” then maybe there’s something to it. I don’t know.

She absolutely says 100% if you are trying to ‘set up’ a guy it is a light form of flirting that is used to say ‘you’re a good mate but I’m not free, but if I wasn’t...’.

OMG, no. I’ve set up many girls and guys and many of them, no. No way no how. Just no. Not a single romantic or flirty thought. Ugh. No. But they were perfect for the girls I was setting them up with. And just because I did set them up does not mean that if it weren’t for the fact that I was married I’d be otherwise jumping into bed with them. No offense to your wife and all but I strongly disagree. And again, I wasn’t setting him up I was setting her up with him. She was divorced for a few years, was pretty put together, ahh, you know what? never mind. I’m sorry but this is silly. Believe me or don’t. It’s fine.

It’s not a matter of believe or not. It’s a matter of looking under rocks for answers and there may be an answer, however small, under that rock. And if not, no sweat.

Look at it this way, the evidence as it applies to you suggests otherwise. You even just qualified the girl you were setting him up with as ‘pretty out together’, which is a qualification that implies that he, too, must be ‘put together’ for you to even consider it.

Saying this in the spirit of throwing crap against the wall to see if something sticks. No pitchforks out or three-ways planning on being the solution to this :)

There was less cross examination during the O J Simpson trial.

So have you given any thought about dance lessons with you husband?

So what if she thought a guy was "pretty put together"? So what if she examined his positive qualities and thought "You know, he's a catch... he might be a good match for whats-her-name". That doesn't mean she's into him at all. That's not wayward thinking.

If it helps you in any way, then I’m really truly happy to answer most questions. But if it’s just rehashing pieces of a story you were told more than two years ago, then I don’t see the point. I’m not saying that’s what you’re doing. I’m assuming this helps you understand things.

Anyway, I did think how he must have felt, a lot, but not really in the first few weeks. Only later. I was too focused on myself and what was happening to me. I was in pain knowing I caused all this pain for him, but a lot of my jumbled thoughts were very very selfish. And for the first week or two I was not thinking clearly about anything. About the phone call, I didn’t rationalize anything. Not then and not since. And no, it doesn’t mean that I thought the phone call was more important than my marriage. It means that I was scared, hurt, angry, shocked and a compete and total mess. I was living with my sister, my life just imploded (yes, as did his), I was just lost. That’s it

That's exactly the kind of answer I was looking for. I've only ever gotten to ask a WS questions once before. My questions with both of you were about what was going thru your heads at certain points. Both of you pretty much answered that you didn't know what you were thinking bc of the chaos that was happening.

I didn't mean to offend, and I'll bow out now

And again, I wasn’t setting him up I was setting her up with him. She was divorced for a few years, was pretty put together...

Sounds like he did a pretty good job of hiding his marital status if you could even attempt to set others up with him - usually word gets around pretty quickly. On the other hand, reading between the lines of Walloped's account of his call to the head of the organization, it didn't seem like she was all that surprised at what the AP had done. I almost had the impression she had been looking the other way. Large contributions, maybe?

Wow, one is not allowed to miss a day on this site. So thanks to everyone for stealing my thunder over FudgeGate

As usual Mrs Walloped summoned the feelings involved very well even without reading my Jane Austen quality prose!

OK the unabridged version:

Yes, Walloped purchased the fudge as a natural instinct for you thinking that you would love it as you were a choco-holic. He said that you were both like that. Whenever either of you were someplace and see something you think the other will like or enjoy, you buy it for each other. He wasn’t even thinking about what he was doing. He just bought and commented to Brad that he had buy this for you. Brad didn’t say anything until they walked out. There he was holding a bag of fudge and Brad was just looking at him 'funny'. And then Brad asked him if he was okay, and he said sure. "Mrs. Walloped is going to love this."

And then it hit him. He stared at the bag and looked back at Brad and then he broke down right in the middle of the street. Walloped was so messed up about it. Because why hadn’t you been thinking of him when you had your affair? Surely you were someplace and you would have seen something that would have triggered a “You know, Walloped would really like this,” thought and then maybe you would have realised what you were doing? Or did you just suppress all those thoughts. He didn't know....

Afterwards he didn't know whether to give it to you or not – would it send a message? Is that a good thing, bad thing? He had "no freaking clue."

Then he prayed for you. He questioned whether that was weird but he couldn't help it. He prayed that you would find what you need to heal yourself and perhaps to heal you both. And that you should have the strength to do what you think is right.

Then Bigger commented saying that you didn’t cheat because of him. When with OM Walloped didn’t exist. Just the fact you held hands with OM in public should sort of drive that home.

That it breaks down to which is worse: Being so insignificant in your thought process that you can omit him from it or being so callous that you can carry on cheating while thinking of you. It was a totally non-winnable situation.

So yes it was a lovely thought but a sad and profound moment.

So he asked the SI audience and they voted without exception I recollect to give the fudge to you, Mrs Walloped and you received it with much gratitude. One comment:

"My guess is that it's just fudge, but it's going to feel like a 10 carat diamond to her."

So there you are FudgeGate, amusing but so profoundly sad. God bless you both.

[This message edited by SorrowfulMoon at 8:10 PM, February 18th (Sunday)]

So what if she thought a guy was "pretty put together"? So what if she examined his positive qualities and thought "You know, he's a catch... he might be a good match for whats-her-name". That doesn't mean she's into him at all. That's not wayward thinking.

In this case do we really know that? I certainly wouldn’t given the outcome. And to be quite honest I’m pretty sure that if I were Walloped I’d dwell on details like that.

There needs to be (more) healing here and it’s not going to come from sitting around and rehashing what’s already been decided or digested. W clearly hasn’t digested the affair. For him to digest it he needs to understand it completely (to his satisfaction).

He may never accept it but there isn’t a ton we can do about that right now. There is onion left to peel before that.

[This message edited by Sharkman at 8:16 PM, February 18th (Sunday)]

Well you're not Walloped are you. So give it a rest. You're not his councilor. You really want them to split don't you. Would that make you feel better?

[This message edited by nscale56 at 9:02 PM, February 18th (Sunday)]