SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I probably shouldn’t be posting. I’m not in a very good place. But here I am. I don’t know why. I think maybe it relaxes my brain and lets me focus. At least when I don’t have an emotional reaction. Anyway.

Hi xhz700,

As a wayward, is there ever a difference between remorse/regret for your actions, and just simply covering your own ass?

Of course there is. By definition wouldn’t covering one’s own ass indicate a lack of remorse? And visa versa? I don’t know your story but are you perhaps thinking about your situation or many others here that you might have read and are painting all WS’s with the same brush? I don’t think your description really applies to me.

To me, you have an affair because that's the best way to maximize your life enjoyment. You lie, because that's the best way to maximize your life enjoyment. You say all the right words, because that's the way to maximize your life enjoyment.

I don’t know you, but that seems to be a very sad way to look at the world. I’ve never thought of things in that way.

So why in the world would you ever challenge that? Why would you ever take the chance to destabilize the life of your children? Why would you choose to damage the man that's raising your children?

Those are great questions. I’ve been working on them for two and a half years now.

Most of what I see now in this forum, I just assume is from people who have gone to 50 websites looking for a way to save their asses. They are well versed in exactly the right things to say about their affair.

What a cynical point of view. I guess if the WS doesn’t care at all about their spouse then yes. Maybe. But have you ever spoken to a WS who hates what they did and is truly remorseful? Really spoken to them? Have you seen the pain they go through knowing the destruction in their lives and of their loved ones is their own doing? And you think that person has the wherewithal to go on websites looking to save their ass? It’s a Herculean effort just to get the kids to school and put on a happy face and clean and cook and do laundry and homework and function like a human being without spending the day curled in a fetal position on the floor.

Affairs may not be unique, but people are. I wouldn’t assume anything about someone’s situation.

Why do we put more weight into the words of someone trying desperately to save their quality of life over words that they used with their AP?

Who said you should? Words are cheap. I’d ask how the people you’re referring to act? What do they do? What have they learned? How have they grown? But if your viewpoint is that all WS’s are just liars who are trying to save their own skin with pretty words and fake actions then nothing I say will change your mind.

Hi Foley05,

your AP's pursuit appeared to be pretty much the standard seduction routine and seemed like it should have been fairly obvious to you what was going on. Do you have any insight into why you didn't figure him out until after D-day?

It wasn’t obvious to me. Obviously.

I’ve been hit on many times in my life. It was easy to knock them down and ignore it. This wasn’t what you call standard. He didn’t show up one day with a Hey baby, line. We knew each other from around the office for just under a year before we were involved in any way. We were like coworkers who passed each other in the hall. He didn’t hit on me. I even suggested setting him up once with one of the secretaries. I never considered him as a sexual person or as a possible romantic relationship. It never entered my mind. So no. I didn’t see it coming. Not at all.

Also, when you're out working or otherwise interacting with men now, do you find it easier to recognize when they're hitting on you?

Well, it’s a bit different now because of the things I do and the way I am since DDay. I’m much more introverted and closed off than I was before. I don’t do anything socially with men if my husband is not there. I don’t talk about my personal life at all and I keep office interactions professional (I work part time now). So I’ve actually not received the same attention like I did before, which is a good thing, and I’m developing the frigid bitch reputation at work. I’m fine with that.

Hi LostToOM,

How do you know he didn't have real feelings for you? Or do you?

I don’t know if he did or not. I thought he did during the affair. Whether he really did or didn’t, honestly I don’t care one way or the other.

When W called OM's wife and put you on the phone, did it ever occur to you that could have been a set up?

No. It never did. I don’t really think in that way. I guess my husband has talked about that phone call. But if you the state I was in then you’d know my brain wasn’t operating like that. It couldn’t. To you it’s a thing that happened to someone else. To me it was my life and I went through it. I was such a mess back then I wasn’t thinking at all. I just remember crying and screaming I’m sorry. That’s all I was capable of doing. So no.

Not that I think W would do that, but it could have been anybody on the other end of the call. It wasn't really proof that he was still married.

True. But when I got deposed by his wife’s attorney when she divorced him that was proof enough.

I always wondered if that was why you broke NC at your sister's - to verify that. If not, do you feel you got some kind of closure from that call?

I was an emotional wreck then and I couldn’t believe it. And she yelled at me and called me a whore and I nearly had a breakdown. I didn’t call for him. I called for me. I couldn’t process that I ruined so many lives over a lie. No, there was no closure even if I was looking for it, which I wasn’t, although I don’t think I ever would have gotten any. He just started yelling at me about my husband and I yelled at him back and that was it.

Did you ever celebrate valentine's day with the OM?

hope you and walloped celebrated today.

I have a few questions that concern me but can't quite grasp at this point in time. However, at this stage I just wanted to express my admiration of your posting here and the honesty of your answers as well as my support in your efforts as a couple to find peace and reconciliation.

I have great respect for Walloped. I always look for his thoughts as I know they will be well considered and unbiased.

Just keep on communicating and being honest with each other and yourselves. It is by no means an easy path you are travelling, so be patient as well.

All I can do is show him that despite what I did he can have a good and happy life with me and our family. But it’s up to him to choose it. I know it’s not fair but this is going to be his choice to make

.

I can’t quite put my finger on why this and other statements you have made like this are bothering me.

It’s a half theory that may be completely off base or may be a thought you need to explore.

Statements like the one above put the responsibility and the blame of a failed R on Walloped.

It’s almost like you are seeing yourself as the perfect wife still. You express that you are doing everything right to help him heal. You give example after example of how you show him that you love him and are helping him heal.

All of that is great and I am sure Wal appreciates it. I understand that a BS also needs to chose to R.

What I don’t see in your posts is much acknowledgment that you are the person who put Walloped in the position where he has to make this choice. I don’t see you accepting the blame for the demise of your family if your affair is a deal breaker for Walloped.

You seem to present yourself as being the perfect post DDay spouse (still FOO issues maybe?) and Wal as the one who is not choosing to live a good life with you.

You had a better than good life, you had an amazing life with Walloped, you had an affair and ruined his chance of having a amazing family life again. Please don’t make him in any way feel responsible if he needs a divorce to heal from your affair.

Your post from yesterday (early in the morning) may well be the most poignant, moving, and honest thing I've read in my years on this site. I am a BS... yet I want you to know that the love you have for your husband leaps off the screen. It is something that should be recognized.

After reading it, and having wiped the tears from my eyes, there is something I want to tell you. Your husband will heal. It takes a long time - and I went through (and still sometimes go through) periods of sadness over what my wife did to me. At the end of the day, though, and in consideration of ALL the MANY things that are suggested to help a BS heal, only one thing really counts: does my wife really, truly, deep down, where no one on SI or anywhere else can see, love me? THAT is what counts.

When all is said and done, I know that my wife is TRULY remorseful and loves me. Period. I don't need any other qualifiers - even if those qualifiers do have merit.

There are always doubters. "Well, if she REALLY loved her husband she wouldn't have done what she did." "Well, she always said she loved him... so she's capable of doing it again." "Oh, so she has an affair and then still gets her husband back? How entitled!" And on and on and on.

Here's the truth. Your husband loves you and wants to remain married to you. You clearly love him and want to not only stay married to him but also help him heal. You are showing him that you can be a safe partner. The pain that is in between you two will slowly fade. I am 6+ years out and clarity, and REAL healing, has only occurred over the past 6-12 months. The anger is gone. The constant thoughts and reminders are gone. I log in here to, hopefully, help others - but it no longer triggers me, no longer makes me sad. I am 99% healed with the full recognition that it will never be 100%. My marriage is infinitely better, stronger, more rewarding.

We have made it through to the other side, as my wife often says.

You will, too. Your husband will heal. Why? Because you are able to genuinely show him love. And what you wrote yesterday was a reflection of that. It is clear how you feel and this will slowly rub off on your husband. He will see it. And he will overcome his hurt.

No expectations - it might take you another 3 years (like it did for me). But you will get there and the other side will be far better than you can imagine.

No questions from me. Just positive mojo and wishes that you and your husband heal.

Hi HardyRose,

I wrote a very long response last night but didn’t post it. It was defensive and dismissive. I saved it though so I could refer to it to understand my reaction and how I naturally responded and think about whether I do that in other areas too. So thank for the homework.

Anyway this morning I read your post again and wanted to respond.

You seem to present yourself as being the perfect post DDay spouse...

I don’t mean to. Really. I’m not trying to present myself as anything and I wasn’t aware it came across that way. Because I’m not. Far from it. I broke NC twice and lied about it, I was an emotional mess and was not emotionally there for him after DDay. For months after DDay we stayed away from each other than family related things and all I’d do is cry and go to IC twice a week. We’re married with kids and life has its own issues and it’s hard enough to deal with them without my affair adding pain and confusion and a damaged relationship to the mix. I’m not perfect. I get upset, I yell, I get emotional, I become distant. I get snippy, I’ve yelled at him to just divorce me and leave already, I’ve given up so many times and told him I’m not strong enough to do this anymore. I am far, far from perfect.

I think I understand why you’re saying what you said, but this is weird for me. I’m not telling a new story. I thought I would be when I joined here and I submitted my first post about my FOO issues but it seems everyone knows my story already and they just started asking detail after detail about what I did on a specific day or how I reacted when I got a certain phone call or what happened when he said this or I said that. And I’m just responding and saying what I did or felt at that time. I didn’t mean to come here and say that I’m doing everything wonderfully and I’m following the guidebook on how to be a perfect spouse and aren’t I just great? Not at all. I do give examples of what I do, partly because I’m asked what I do so I’m answering questions, and partly because it’s what I’m actually,doing. I don’t know if it’s right or not. I don’t have anyone telling me it is or isn’t. Sometimes I’ll do something or say something and he’ll appreciate what I’ve done and other times he won’t. I feel my way through. The idea of being a perfect spouse after DDay...I don’t even know what that’s supposed to look like. But I honestly don’t have an agenda. I get good feelings from external validation but this forum is probably the lowest form of that. And I’m not trying to show my husband anything by saying things here. He knows how I feel, what I do, and what my issues are.

All I know is that I did something I’ll regret for the rest of my life. It was by far the worst thing I could ever do to someone. It took me a long time to become emotionally healthy and stable so I could figure myself out and do whatever I could for my husband to help him heal from what I did to him. And right or wrong or perfect or a disaster I just did it. That’s all. Nothing else.

God, even all this sounds defensive. I’m sorry. I’m just trying to explain, not defend.

You give example after example of how you show him that you love him and are helping him heal.

I guess I’m glad at least someone thinks I’m doing something right.

(It was a joke!)

Statements like the one above put the responsibility and the blame of a failed R on Walloped.

I don’t see you accepting the blame for the demise of your family if your affair is a deal breaker for Walloped.

Please don’t make him in any way feel responsible if he needs a divorce to heal from your affair.

My husband and I have talked a lot about divorce. It’s a subject that has come up pretty often. Maybe I come across the way you say because I’ve really been answering questions, and maybe it’s partly a defense mechanism, but if you’re interested I can tell you how I feel and what we’ve talked about. If we divorce, I'm to blame, the responsibility is ours, and the choice is his.

If we don’t R, the blame is mine. No one else’s. I absolutely acknowledge and accept the blame. Blaming myself, rightly, became my favorite hobby for a long period of time and I’ve spent hours and hours learning how to reframe my thinking so I stop self-loathing because I know it’s all my fault. No matter how I felt before or during my affair, I know he did nothing to cause what I did. Regarding responsibility, we are married. We have children. As I said I would be the cause of a divorce plain and simple. The one to blame. Yet we both bear the responsibility of that outcome, because we are responsible for each other and our children. Of course it was my affair that would be the catalyst, and if we do get divorced it would be because I didn’t do enough for him to help him heal from what I did or he just wasn’t able to stay. Or both. That’s not faulting him for that and I wouldn’t blame him at all, but you better believe he feels a responsibility for such a decision. And he should. He’s my husband and the father of his children. For better or for worse we are still a family. Any action that affects all of us is our joint responsibility. I don’t mean to preach or rant. If we stay married that will come with a whole set of issues and by choosing that option he’d be accepting the responsibility to deal with those issues in the best way possible. And if we divorce, the same thing applies. Just because I’m the one to blame and I’d be the one to cause it does not mean he throws his hands up and says it’s not his problem. Visitation, living apart, him possibly seeing someone new, finances, how could he not feel responsible for such a decision? That doesn’t mean it’s not the right one but if you knew him at all you’d know he feels a responsibility for it. Sorry. I went on too long. Okay, choice. The choice is his. I guess you can argue that I chose to divorce him by having an affair, and I understand that point of view. So I’ve worked to show him I’m choosing differently despite what I did. But he gets to choose too. No matter what I do, ultimately he has the right to say he’s done with me. And I accept that it’s his choice and he’d be making it because of what I did. But that choice is his power. I don’t mean power over me, I mean power to make that choice. Freedom. He did not get a choice in my having an affair. He does get a choice and the one that matters most about whether my actions end in R or divorce.

I hope that makes a little bit of sense at least. These are serious issues and we talk very civilly (most of the time) about them and that’s how we look at it.

Reading all of this. Your comments, responses, other people’s responses.

This all makes me more determined to leave the past behind. The last two years have been so serious. I just want to have fun and laugh. Smile. Without thinking of all of these thoughts from the betrayed side.

Thank you for being so candid. As I said before, you are an excellent writer. People will be drawn to this because of it.

[This message edited by Iwantmyglasses at 11:39 AM, February 15th (Thursday)]

Maybe you are right. I probably am pretty cynical about relationships these days, and it's something I am trying to work through myself.

Have you seen the pain they go through knowing the destruction in their lives and of their loved ones is their own doing? And you think that person has the wherewithal to go on websites looking to save their ass? It’s a Herculean effort just to get the kids to school and put on a happy face and clean and cook and do laundry and homework and function like a human being without spending the day curled in a fetal position on the floor.

OK, Let's say you are representing a remorseful wayward accurately here... Where was all of this when they had an affair? This is really what I am asking. This is the disconnect. I could never willingly do this to another person. It's too obvious, too destructive, too painful. What is truly different about you and me?

Mrs. Walloped-

I just want to tell you to really take a break from this site if you need to. When I first came here, reading, posting, getting hit over the head with everything was mentally exhausting, on top of the grief and despair I was feeling at home.

While it was therapeutic at times and I learned so much, I also found myself re-living so much, and self loathing. I would wake up and come to these pages and go down the rabbit hole, believe the words that people type on the screen about me. I found I had to defend myself to strangers. It would affect my mood, my self worth and my mind would be brought back to relive my betrayal. While in small doses that can be helpful, if it causes you to start to be in a bad place daily, its not a good thing.

SI is a great place to get help but it can also be dangerous if you can't shake it off at the end of the day.

Thank you for being so real and honest.

Mrs. Walloped-

I just want to tell you to really take a break from this site if you need to. When I first came here, reading, posting, getting hit over the head with everything was mentally exhausting, on top of the grief and despair I was feeling at home

Agree....... Not a complaint, just want you around for the long haul. Start charging a consulting fee.....it'll slow down then. Seriously, pace yourself.

Thank you for your well thought out response.

I hope the extra homework my post and your initial response created is helpful. Your up bringing sounds like mine. I am so sorry that you endured that kind of life. Maybe my post made you angry, some stranger on the internet attacking that perfect facade you cling to. It’s ok to be angry, it’s ok to defend yourself. You have the right to have those feelings. I know your upbringing didn’t let you but you can now.

I am sorry you felt attacked. I was defending Walloped and trying to see if you really understand that you put him in the position where he has to take responsibility for your actions and the consequences of them. That he has to make a choice that he didn’t ever want to have to and that he faces two possible futures neither of which is his “best” life.

You spoke about joining because you felt you were being too clinical about your affair. I thought my posts could address that. I don’t need a response. Go give your kids and Walloped an extra “I love you” cuddle instead.

Best wishes

Rosie

[This message edited by HardyRose at 5:23 PM, February 15th (Thursday)]

Hi Mrs Walloped,

I think you are standing up to all the taxing questions remarkably well. It must be so difficult but hopefully also therapeutic and enlightening as well.

Just a simple question. I have read you husband's threads a couple of times and they are very well written but long... So excuse me for this question as I don't have the mental fortitude to go through them again at the moment lol!

You mentioned breaking NC twice. My only recollection was that you did this once at your sister's. Could you kindly enlighten me on the other time as it helps clarify your state of mind at the time.

Thanks again.

Mrs Walloped,

There's a lot of similarity between you and my WW. Her A was 3+ years ago and we are making our way through with R. It's been fairly good going more recently but some things are still nagging me at times.

Thank you for being so courageous and candid with your view and your feelings. Your posts help me understand my WW a bit more.

I apologize if this may have been written about and I missed it, but I'm wondering how you had unprotected sex (at least I think I saw that post) with the AP and not worried about getting pregnant. My WW did that with her AP too and I couldn't understand that thinking until this day.

When I first came here, reading, posting, getting hit over the head with everything was mentally exhausting, on top of the grief and despair I was feeling at home.

While it was therapeutic at times and I learned so much, I also found myself re-living so much, and self loathing. I would wake up and come to these pages and go down the rabbit hole, believe the words that people type on the screen about me. I found I had to defend myself to strangers. It would affect my mood, my self worth and my mind would be brought back to relive my betrayal.

Thank you pinkpggy and Jorge. This is so much what happened this past week. I was obsessed and replayed everything said here.

I think it’s good for me to relive what I did and listen to what people say. I need to learn how to do that and not let it affect me so deeply that it becomes harmful instead of helpful.

Hi SorrowfulMoon,

You mentioned breaking NC twice. My only recollection was that you did this once at your sister's. Could you kindly enlighten me on the other time as it helps clarify your state of mind at the time.

It’s actually three times in my head. Once was a whole bunch of phone calls from my AP right after DDay. All short except for one long-ish conversation. I don’t think we talked about NC yet but this was the man I betrayed my husband with and I should have known that me speaking to him would be just twisting the knife in his back. Walloped doesn’t count this, but I do. The second is not technically breaking NC because I didn’t call him. But not because I didn’t try. My sister stopped me. But I wanted to. And it’s the thought that counts. So that’s my second. The third is when I did call.

I have a very simple question to ask.

What do you do for fun? Imagine just for today that you were truly free to do whatever you wanted. What would that be?

Mrs. Walloped:

A doff of the Fedora to you

For having the courage to post here

and the courage to face the work you must continue to do to repair your marriage

Some posts to your thread are very good.

Some, not so much

I sense you are learning to sort appropriately.

I am optimistic you will succeed but the road is still a long way to travel . . .

What do you do for fun? Imagine just for today that you were truly free to do whatever you wanted. What would that be?

Those are two different questions.

I don’t do much for fun anymore. There are things I enjoy, but that’s not the same as fun. But a big thing for me has always been art. I draw and sketch. I do people, and fashion. I have a portfolio I’ve built up over the years. I’m good, very good really, but I’m not as good as I could have been because I don’t have any formal training. When I was younger I was accepted to Parsons but my parents couldn’t afford it and they didn’t understand about going to a school for art or design. So I never went. Anyway my fun used to be going to museums and sketching. Mostly at the Met. It was actually more than fun. It was like a zen thing for me. It made me feel whole. I don’t go to museums anymore. That would no longer be fun for me. And while he’s never said I shouldn’t, I know it would be painful for my husband if I did. And painful for me too. Another thing I ruined.

The closest thing to having fun that I do now is take my girls shopping.

If I had a day to myself? Is my husband available to spend the day with me? If he’s available then it would be to spend the day together and I know it sounds so contrived even if it’s the truth. Okay, let’s say he’s out of town. No kids or cleaning or dinner? He took them with him? Fine. Sleep late, then make myself a big breakfast (toasted bagel with butter and an omelette with tomato, peppers, and onions, and coffee) and read a fun book (I’m reading my daughter’s Throne of Glass books). Then I’d get dressed and go take a ballroom dancing class. I love ballroom dancing! Go to the gym and workout and then come home and take a looooong hot bubble bath. Then get dressed and call either my girls or one or two friends and we’d go to MAC for a makeup appointment (can I assume I already made one for the day I’m doing this?) and then go shopping for a bit. Then we’d all go out for dinner and maybe a really cheesy movie.

Sorry this was so long. But you asked.

What a story and poor Walloped. From my point of view this has been overanalysed to death and you, my dear, have played your part very, very well.

The sad truth is (as others including Sharkman have said)

You cheated because you wanted to and knew it would be enjoyable.

Sure, you lapped up his praises and compliments etc but you did it not because you NEEDED his praise but because you wanted hot illicit sex. The rest was just self entitlement thinking.

When you got caught you went into survival mode and are still in survival mode.

I am not sure that you are in love with Walloped. I really cannot see anything but survival. And Walloped can never be sure of this and must live with it.

Never mind all that kiddie romantic stuff about you are his "one and only" but he is not yours etc - he is dealing with the very real facts that you two were out there doing all kinds of things including oral, anal and God knows what else while he views himself as the schmuck sitting at home and worrying about home stuff.

As I said, the first role you played was the entitled hot wife and now its the"truly" remorseful wife who really, really loves her husband (this is where you should insert the vomiting emoticons).

Your being on this website is part of your survival plan and good for you.

However I am sure many would agree with me in saying the best thing that you could have done for your husband (the best thing for you both that is) would have been to get divorced and then maybe, just maybe start dating again.

But by your own comment, you would expect to be compensate adequately for all the time you put in for taking care of him and raising the kids - so you expect payment for a job well done - really? This is probably what deters Walloped from divorcing you. But its the ONLY thing that can really give him peace.

MrsWalloped, I have seen some angry and hurtful posts on this thread. I am sad that these people feel that they HAVE to hurt you just because you had the courage to post.

What you need to always remember is that these people taking "shots" at you aren't really talking to YOU they are telling you what they wished they would have told their SO's but didn't.

Since being found out you seem to have been into trying to save your marriage and helping your husband heal. I HAVE to respect that! You can tell that your husband REALLY loves you! He has been respectful of you the whole time he has been describing the pain he was feeling. I sincerely wish both of you the best outcome you can have. No matter what happens you have both shown that you think that what you had is worth fighting for. Good Luck!

P.S. Just because you posted here does NOT mean that you volunteered to go catch golf balls at the driving range!

JMO YMMV

Those are two different questions.

I don’t do much for fun anymore. There are things I enjoy, but that’s not the same as fun. But a big thing for me has always been art. I draw and sketch. I do people, and fashion. I have a portfolio I’ve built up over the years. I’m good, very good really, but I’m not as good as I could have been because I don’t have any formal training. When I was younger I was accepted to Parsons but my parents couldn’t afford it and they didn’t understand about going to a school for art or design. So I never went. Anyway my fun used to be going to museums and sketching. Mostly at the Met. It was actually more than fun. It was like a zen thing for me. It made me feel whole. I don’t go to museums anymore. That would no longer be fun for me. And while he’s never said I shouldn’t, I know it would be painful for my husband if I did. And painful for me too. Another thing I ruined.

The closest thing to having fun that I do now is take my girls shopping.

If I had a day to myself? Is my husband available to spend the day with me? If he’s available then it would be to spend the day together and I know it sounds so contrived even if it’s the truth. Okay, let’s say he’s out of town. No kids or cleaning or dinner? He took them with him? Fine. Sleep late, then make myself a big breakfast (toasted bagel with butter and an omelette with tomato, peppers, and onions, and coffee) and read a fun book (I’m reading my daughter’s Throne of Glass books). Then I’d get dressed and go take a ballroom dancing class. I love ballroom dancing! Go to the gym and workout and then come home and take a looooong hot bubble bath. Then get dressed and call either my girls or one or two friends and we’d go to MAC for a makeup appointment (can I assume I already made one for the day I’m doing this?) and then go shopping for a bit. Then we’d all go out for dinner and maybe a really cheesy movie.

Sorry this was so long. But you asked.

Ha! I did.

No that's great and it's really awesome that you hit the nail on the head in the first part of your post. I thought about my question very hard before I posted it. I went through a number of them before finally hitting submit :)

I still believe that there are a lot of questions that haven't been asked, or asked incorrectly. Perhaps a better way of going about my line of questioning would be to start indeitfying symptoms of this.

I'll make an observation here. If you are not having fun, or having fun to the best of your ability, you are not healing. Your goal here is to heal W and an aspect of that is healing yourself. It's one my warning signs to be honest, I don't sense much beyond trying to save things (which isn't a criticism, I'd be the same way). Reconciliation is one thing, recovery is another.

We all want you two to be as happy as possible, in whatever form that happens to take.