SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I want to thank everyone for your continued support. I am taking everything in, even if my actions don’t seem to match. I was never a door mat before and the younger Unsureman would never had tolerated the disrespect. It has been a slow slide into this madness, slow and steady to where it is the new normal. I was raised in a divorced home where my mother cheated on and divorced my father and I endured countless OM as a child. Me leaving was never an option, I was willing to sacrifice my happiness for my children. My marriage was really good until this incident. I am sure everyone here has said the same.

My current plan is to man up and find my old self and take control of my life again. I will probably start counseling in the future for myself. I know that I have FOO issues and my wife has told me that I am controlling and very sarcastic towards her, maybe misplaced anger. My wife seems to think so.

[This message edited by Unsureman at 9:16 AM, October 6th (Friday)]

"You are controlling". The Cheater must say this, or they are fined by the local chapter of the Cheater's Guild. It's right there, on page 66 of the Cheater's Handbook™.

All kidding aside, it really is true. MANY of the cheaters pull this out of their nether regions when confronted. It's blame-shifting. You see, she's a liar and a cheater because of YOU. Ignore it.

You didn't admit to the VARs did you? If not, DO NOT EVER ADMIT IT. Even if she's shaking them in your face. You don't even know what it is. I mentioned this way back on the first page:

get VAR's for the car and places in the house she is likely to feel safe talking on the phone. If she finds them... well, you don't even know what they are.

You don't need a smoking gun. You saw it with your own eyes. She cheated on you. Period.

Worse than that, though, is that Mr. Contempt has entered your marriage. I'm sorry, but I personally believe that once Contempt makes an appearance, there really is no coming back.

So you're considering living with a woman, pretending to be married, until your youngest heads of to school... because SHE told you that's the plan? I'll tell you something. It's NEVER a good time to pull the trigger, but any time is better than having the trigger pulled on you.

Your wife seems to be telling you pretty loud and clear that she is not interested in being your wife. Oh, she's interested in pretending to be your wife for a little while longer (which may entitle her to more support money later, and give her more time to plan the exit that brings her the biggest benefit), but she doesn't seem interested in actually being your wife anymore.

She's cheated on you, mocked your pain (the lesbian episode), and told you plainly that she will leave you... on her terms... no matter the damage to you.

My advice? Grab the wheel, and make the decision for her. Shock and awe. That's what I did, and I never looked back, not even when XWW was literally bawling on the floor clutching my ankles.

ETA: BTW, why would an innocent person even begin to suspect they are being recorded? Did she find the VAR, or just guess? It's a weird thing to even suspect, for a person that's not up to anything.

If I found a VAR that my spouse had set up I would be hurt and scared that something was THAT F'd up in my relationship that my partner had to resort to that... I don't think I'd be angry.

[This message edited by ChangeMaker at 9:37 AM, October 6th (Friday)]

U-man,

She knows you have recorded her, but you mentioned that you had told her months ago that you did. Is she referring to that, or did she find your VAR recently?

You need to have a beer with the friend that told you she has been fooling around. You need more information and verification from others.

You may be right, IF there is truly something going on, your wife has probably been through your phone and is checking this forum, trying to stay ahead of you.

I think you are very much in the same space I was and probably will remain. I always believed I would ever tolerate an A, but when it happened, I did. I however said that was it, never again and then 11 years later I was back trying to R after my W got involved with a lesbian. If my story was someone else's, I would have said run and run fast on both occasions. It however isn't that easy, so I understand that while you read our advice and absorb it, it isn't a simple task. By no means a doormat, just somebody who values what you have had and hopes in the future. Not to mention you are considering your son in this.

As for you wife chatting to the lesbian couple, your triggering is to be expected, your W showed she is interested in women, so now you need to worry about both men and women being a threat.

I do however warn you that R is a long road and if your W maintains her stance, R looks very suspect. It certainly is slow torture when your W doesn't put in effort to avoid giving you reason to be concerned.

She needs to agree to cutting ties with that odd couple. She probably needs new friends as well as they don't seem invested in the well being of your relationship.

Good luck and drop the idea of calling yourself a doormat please.

I had a 'gut feeling' that the encounter went something like this.

You need to self examine a bit to see if you can determine why you couldn't better prepare for it in the time you had. (i.e. Consult with an attorney, knock on the informants door, set up VAR, write out an outline for 'the talk', take the lead in the talk, etc). I think it simply comes down to fear. There are ways of working through that.

I will probably start counseling in the future for myself.

Edited to:

I will contact a counselor by Wednesday of this week and set up an appointment.

If you suspected you had a heart condition you would see a cardiologist. With your wife it's like you have had two earlier heart attacks, and now the chest pain is more or less constant.

Obviously a huge opportunity was missed re 'the talk', but let's see what we can learn from this. Your wife is showing you how she sees the marriage, and how she sees you. Who do you think she respects more, the OM or you? Why is that? Think about that and let it sink in.

Something else to ponder: If a business associate continually and unnecessarily showed weakness and appeasing behaviors, to the point where you could override his occasional protests and just do whatever you wanted, would you be a bit contemptuous of him? Even if he were a really nice guy who would give you the shirt off of his back, would you respect him? Think about how he would need to behave to earn your respect back....

"You are controlling". The Cheater must say this, or they are fined by the local chapter of the Cheater's Guild. It's right there, on page 66 of the Cheater's Handbook™.

Changemaker, I agree whenever I say or bring up anything regarding the A she goes on the attack. States that I am trying to control her life and friends. She wants this to go away as if it never happened. I wish that I had that ability but I don’t. I have to know the full scope of this betrayal .

She knows you have recorded her, but you mentioned that you had told her months ago that you did. Is she referring to that, or did she find your VAR recentl

Twisted, yes she knows from the past or perhaps it’s a guilty conscience. She just can never see herself as the bad guy who broke up the family. Her family loves me her parents treat me like their own son and she would catch hell for cheating.

If my story was someone else's, I would have said run and run fast on both occasions. It however isn't that easy, so I understand that while you read our advice and absorb it, it isn't a simple task. By no means a doormat, just somebody who values what you have had and hopes in the future. Not to mention you are considering your son in this.

Artec, I will have to read your thread, but yes I would advise the same from 10,000 feet. I never thought that I would be here and it sucks. I triggered from the lesbians and It made me feel unsafe, had my wife instead showed me attention and some affection at the timeI would have been okay.

Obviously a huge opportunity was missed re 'the talk', but let's see what we can learn from this. Your wife is showing you how she sees the marriage, and how she sees you. Who do you think she respects more, the OM or you? Why is that? Think about that and let it sink in.

Something else to ponder: If a business associate continually and unnecessarily showed weakness and appeasing behaviors, to the point where you could override his occasional protests and just do whatever you wanted, would you be a bit contemptuous of him? Even if he were a really nice guy who would give you the shirt off of his back, would you respect him? Think about how he would need to behave to earn your respect back....

Antlered, ouch .....she shows me disrespect when she is trying to break my will to get her way. I believe she learned this from her mother. She treated her husband the same and used sex as a weapon. I have decided to seek ic and start the 180 and prepare for the inevitable. I live in a very man unfriendly state which is also a no fault state. I know that if divorce happens i will get hammered. I make well into the six figures and she is a SOHAM (Sit on her...)for 23years.

[This message edited by Unsureman at 8:55 AM, October 9th (Monday)]

U-man,

Have you ever questioned the original drunk friend that told you it was common knowledge she was fooling around?

He seems to be your best option for finding out any more details, so I'd pursuing that, with continued VAR's in the house and car.

Sorry, I don't remember if polygraph was mentioned in this thread?

Would she agree?

I guess you will get "Polys aren't reliable, blah blah blah, you insult me by asking for it, blah blah blah" speech.

Dude I'm not meaning to make you say 'ouch' with every post

I might know why now though. To confirm, let me ask you a few questions:

How does she react when she's told 'no' for something she wants?

How does she talk about the others in her life?

How often can you get away from the house and family to do what you want to do (like a trip to the wine country for unsure man) ?

How often does she admit that she's wrong about something non-trivial?

Twisted has brought up THE key step for you once again....

TALK TO YOUR FRIEND WHO TIPPED YOU OFF!!

Get the information he knows ASAP.....

Frankly, I cannot fathom why you have still not done this.....

You should have made that happen the very next day after he told you.

You have said repeatedly, and just again in your most recent posts that you need to know the extent of this betrayal.....

Well then.....go get the info.

At this point, I am starting to sense that you are afraid to actually get the details....because you seem to be in a state of denial yourself about the A.

And getting the facts will make it impossible to stay in denial.

In all honesty, you would not be the first BS to do this.....there are several that I can recall who seemed to go out of their way to avoid getting the confirming facts.....some have even said openly they do NOT want to know them.

However, YOU have claimed to want the opposite.....

So stop putting it off......TALK TO YOUR FRIEND ASAP!

Have you ever questioned the original drunk friend that told you it was common knowledge she was fooling around?

.

Twisted, It appears that his wife and mine are going out of their way to keep us from meeting up. My wife said that she doesn’t want me to have any contact with this drunken liar. His wife I believe is also trying to stop us from speaking again.

Sorry, I don't remember if polygraph was mentioned in this thread?

Would she agree?

I guess you will get "Polys aren't reliable, blah blah blah, you insult me by asking for it, blah blah blah" speech.

Darkhole, That was her response but she was very venomous about it

How often can you get away from the house and family to do what you want to do (like a trip to the wine country for unsure man) ?

.

.Antlered, short answer never. That is my fault for this but I was so committed to supporting the family that I put myself dead last. Something that I have to work on.

And getting the facts will make it impossible to stay in denial.

In all honesty, you would not be the first BS to do this.....there are several that I can recall who seemed to go out of their way to avoid getting the confirming facts.....some have even said openly they do NOT want to know them.

Dyokemm, perhaps you are right my wife has said to me that she was sorry for the OM when she was drinking, but denied saying it the next day. My wife wants this to all go away without any negative consequences to her or our family .

I have built a great life through my hard work and I cannot imagine loosing it now. I have started the 180 and the results are immediate wife is constantly calling and texting me through out the day. Dinner is ready when I get home and she is trying to get me to go out with friends for dinner dates wife and I. I plan to continue then tell her that if she tells me the truth then I promise to keep my temper and work on the marriage for three months without making a decision.

I did make a statement to my wife before that if I ever found out she cheated I would never forgive her and I would be the worse exhusband that she could ever summon up from the pits of hell. I know that was stupid and immature but I was hurting when I said it. She is afraid to tell me the truths.

[This message edited by Unsureman at 11:57 AM, October 10th (Tuesday)]

Thought so.

You haven't answered the rest of my questions so I can't be 100% certain.

How about this one... How does she react when criticized or contradicted?

Thought so.

You haven't answered the rest of my questions so I can't be 100% certain.

How about this one... How does she react when criticized or contradicted?

Antlered, My wife doesn’t take criticism very well, at least in regards to infidelity. She will always turn things back on me and bring up my shortcomings and my FOO. It seems that this change was around the time of the hot tub incident, before this she was my absolute best friend my go to person, my confidant. I want to find the truth and move on with or without her.

Twisted, It appears that his wife and mine are going out of their way to keep us from meeting up. My wife said that she doesn’t want me to have any contact with this drunken liar. His wife I believe is also trying to stop us from speaking again.

Are the two of you (you and this other guy) locked in basements? Are you not free to come and go from your homes as you please? Do you both not own cell phones (have office phones maybe?).

Gentle 2x4 here: You are making excuses why you can't (won't) ask. You are doing this because you are afraid of the answers. (IMO)

Are the two of you (you and this other guy) locked in basements? Are you not free to come and go from your homes as you please? Do you both not own cell phones (have office phones maybe?).

Gentle 2x4 here: You are making excuses why you can't (won't) ask. You are doing this because you are afraid of the answers. (IMO)

Worn down, Point taken maybe I have been making excuses and just hoping that I was wrong. I am going to see the friend this weekend and ask him point blank what was going on. I am going to take a break from here to allow me to focus more on me and kids. I will post an update over the weekend.

Good luck, U-man.

The only thing worse than knowing, is not knowing. Get to the bottom of it one way or another.

Track it down, talk to whoever you need to, get the information you need by whatever means required. Only then can you regain your sanity and make decisions.

Does your state allow for postnups?

I thought she was perhaps narcissistic. They wear you down over time. Google it to see if that shoe fits. If so PM me.

It's great to hear that you plan on getting with that friend and asking it point blank. Watch his reactions and don't let him dodge. If you need to, mention how your wife has called him a liar not to be trusted. Also, your income gives you other options, such as hiring a PI for surveillance.

Regardless of all that, I sincerely hope you will make that IC appointment.

I am relieved to here you say you will go talk to your friend this weekend.

Frankly....the fact that you admit your WW and his W (a known affair cheerleader from the hot tub incident) are conspiring to keep the two of you from speaking....your WW even going so far as to directly tell you she doesn’t want you talking to him and calling him a liar.....is just more confirmation that something has indeed happened.

Your WW is clearly terrified of what he might tell you.

I suggest that after you get the details, you post back in here and get the advice of the many experienced posters on how to proceed with confronting/dealing with your WW going forward.

Give us an update when you can, U-man.

Hope you get to the bottom of this.