SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Just a quick note back on Verizon. Look at the usage details on-line. That is where you can see the actual numbers being texted with counts. Not just the totals that come on the bill. If you are the Account Owner you can get on-line and see the usage details and even download spreadsheets going back several months. You cannot see the contents of the messages but you will see how often she texts/calls with these people and when.

Hi Unsureman. Just caught up on your thread and just wanted to weigh in. Firstly, I'm so sorry you find yourself here, but I am glad you did. I've been here 2 years since my DDay and the advise, help and support from the members here is awesome.

Jameson1977, I am horribly aware of this sad fact. I do appreciate the support and kindness. This is a hard pill to swallow.

I guess I'm just not getting it. Cheating is cheating. An AP is an AP. Same sex doesn't make a difference. She cheated on you with this woman. Why are you funding a trip away with her ow?

Hellfire I do get it I was so stunned when I caught her I failed to act as I should have. Yes an AP is an AP I am just giving her the rope to hang herself.

Will the PI have video capabilities?

The more explicit, the better.

You'd be surprised at the affection shown at dinners.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 2:22 PM, September 21st (Thursday)]

There's a possibility that she is love bombing you is because she feels guilty on what she is planning to do on her trip.

What is the PI going to see? She is on vacation with one of her APs and you know it. Were they going to be sharing a hotel room? All he'll see is them go to their room. You'd have to be pretty lucky to see them do anything in public.

There's a possibility that she is love bombing you is because she feels guilty on what she is planning to do on her trip.

I believe that it is from guilt or remorse from past actions. I am just going to sit back and wait.

What is the PI going to see? She is on vacation with one of her APs and you know it. Were they going to be sharing a hotel room? All he'll see is them go to their room. You'd have to be pretty lucky to see them do anything in public.

WW is supposed to stay with another girlfriend whose husband is a close friend of mine. I refuse to be her warden, if she strays and I find out my choice is made easy.

The most important thing is to be prepared emotionally for anything that comes down the pike.

It's far easier to execute plans if you're emotionally prepared.

Those who are an emotional wreck give the upper hand to the WS.

Hello and welcome, Unsureman

Of course you are being hard on yourself. Try not to be. Its completely normal to not know how to deal with this. It's not part of human training, and there is of course the overwhelming need to keep the family intact. FWIW you did a great job pulling her out the hot tub. Yes the followup is a bit later than you would wish, looking back. However you are doing it now that you have your bearings and you have fresh information. That dance floor scene !.

You are doing very, very well and so far you are making all the right moves, given your stated priority to get proof vs preventing further trysts on her part. That horse has already left the barn, and I'm assuming you are done with her once you get confirmation. Is this correct? I think it is worth extra effort and resources getting the proof. Not that it's strictly needed of course. She is without a doubt currently cheating, and you of course have several strong lines of evidence indicating this.

In my time here I've observed there are two main scripts here that yield results for betrayed spouses. Both require some emotional fortitude in this hurricane of emotion.

The first strategy and the one you are going for currently is the "stealth intelligence gathering approach". This what I did. As it happens and as another poster has commented, I used a cover story for my upset and odd behavior during this time (mine was work upset and adjusting to a new medication).

The second successful strategy used is total shock and awe. No empty threats, divorce papers drawn up and presented, even having them filed and served to WS. Let them believe they have absolutely nothing to lose by cooperating. This cuts through a lot of trickle truth BS. (Paradoxically, this 'filing and meaning it' approach works very well in getting cheaters such as your wife to discover Jesus very quickly and want to fix things.)

The strategy or lack thereof and the one most follow is much less productive but totally understandable given the BS is still reeling. That one you already know. Shock, weak confrontation, and accepting some minimizing bullshit in the hopes that it was a one-time thing that will never happen again and life can go back to normal. Of course most often only the tip of the iceberg is ever seen and the behavior patterns (i.e. cheating) resurface 6 months to a few years down the line if they ever ended. Sound familiar?

Now, once again you are doing very, very well! You are an intelligent person and some part of you has, perhaps subconsciously, prepared for this moment. That being said, I have a few observations for your consideration:

1. She is totally on to you knowing about her cheating on you. This is obvious from your behavior and remarks towards the swinger other couple, the movie infidelity, the dance venue, ect. Also, it is highly likely that the drunk informer's wife knows what he said and has passed that info onto your WW. There is no chance she does not know about your wife's A with swinger couple, that's how drunk guy knew. This has implications for stealth intelligence strategy implementation. Still that's your best bet if you can keep it together emotionally. At some point as you've said you will need to move to confrontation but more on that later.

2. The the intoxicated informant will very likely also become an informant for your WW via his wife. Assume that any info or behavior you let drop to him will go straight to your WW.

3. If you have a plan for more than one eventuality you will feel better. Consider what you will do if you don't get smoking gun info or a confession soon. You are well within your rights to divorce knowing what you already know. Plan for this. Consult with an attorney so you are informed as to how the process works and financial considerations.

When you do confront, have your 'if/then' scenarios already in your head, and deliver in an unemotional calm fashion. Make her do the talking. And of course have surveillance set up everywhere so that you can hopefully capture her following conversations with her enabling friends/affair partners.

I've written a book already brother but one last thing that bothers me is that cookout. At first I thought it was an opportunity to get more info from the informant, but OM is going to be there . Just the three husbands? I know I couldn't handle that scene without being totally obvious. Do you know how the planning went down? Are OM and informant tight? Best case scenario was if informant wanted to get you alone and then the OM went in for his own reasons. Otherwise who knows? Hell maybe one or both will approach you to join their swinger lifestyle! All I will say is if you do go then go late so that they have time to get a few beers in them first so you at least have that advantage. I suggest bailing if the OM is there. That way lies madness.

Excellent post antlered.

Just a quick note back on Verizon. Look at the usage details on-line. That is where you can see the actual numbers being texted with counts. Not just the totals that come on the bill. If you are the Account Owner you can get on-line and see the usage details and even download spreadsheets going back several months. You cannot see the contents of the messages but you will see how often she texts/calls with these people and when.

beenthereinco is correct, you can actually find out the numbers she is calling and receiving calls from in addition to who she is exchanging texts with!

Log into your Verizon account. If you are the 'owner' or administrator of the account (I am the owner of my WH's phone, its in my name, and I wish I hadn't stopped watching my WH), log into the Verizon website using your phone number and password. 'My Verizon Overview' page will appear. Click on 'My Usage'-- it will take you to a page where you can scroll down and see the latest information (within an hour even of your login). One will be Minutes and one will be Messages. Click 'View Minutes Details.' That will give you the current log of all incoming and outgoing phone numbers. Click 'View Message Details' and it will give you the same information on texts.

What is very cool is you can use those numbers to try to figure out who they belong to, and as you figure it out, you can click on them and actually type in the person's name, and it will automatically fill that information in the entire log, for both calls and texts. As beenthereinco said, you can also then download them as a spreadsheet. The one I had to view mad me ill. Then I was able to grab 18 months worth of phone logs and 90 days worth of text information, all as spreadsheets.

To view previous billing cycles, on the usage page, or the My Bill page, you will see an area with the dates of the billing cycle. You can click on this and view previous bills by changing the date and clicking 'View or Save Printable Bill (PDF)'-- guess what...this pdf has ALL the phone calls made to and from your phone or your wife's phone. I felt like an utter idiot as I realized there were two numbers that kept popping up and discovered two more OWs when Iw as just trying to verify his story about an OW from three years ago.

To see the text log, you can also, from that bill section, Click 'Data, Talk, and Text Activity.' On this pag, scroll down to the Text section and click 'View' -- you now have a log of the texts sent and received and from what number. You can also view previous months of calls and texts on this page by clicking those 'view' buttons.

Hope this helps.

To find out who the numbers belong to, you can do a Google search or, my favorite because this is how I found all the OWs-- go to Facebook and use them in the search bar. If they have connected their phone number to their account, you will see who it is. A LOT of people do this and have no idea they can be found that way.

[This message edited by mojodiva at 11:49 PM, September 21st (Thursday)]

I've have been playing catch-up, plenty posts in the last couple days.

Glad you have the PI out on the hunt, hard evidence will really help you in your decision making.

Already well addressed, but as for you (apperance, career) and what you do in the relationship (wonderful, model husband). Alas, it has no role to play in this situation (illogical but true). In many cases the AP is sub par to the BS. I personally felt that was the case, but then again, I may be a little biased :)

Two things stand out for me:

1. You mention that as far as sex goes it is mediocre - your further explanation makes it sound more like this is obligatory sex for her, therefore not really engaged. One could assume this is because her engagement is elsewhere and she believes sex with you is just to keep you from suspecting. It sounds very familiar.

2. Her ramp'ed up affection, again, so familiar. I don't really know if WS's use this to try throw you off, I suspect it is a reflex reaction considering it seems pretty standard. The problem with this, as some have mentioned, is that she could go undercover for sometime. Long enough for her to feel safe again, but rest assured she will return to her former ways.

Leading up to the point that you really suspected she was going rogue, how was the relationship? Did you feel things were good, did you have good engagement from her? If you have answered this before, I apologise, I have tried to read the entire thread.

[This message edited by artec at 3:43 AM, September 22nd (Friday)]

The most important thing is to be prepared emotionally for anything that comes down the pike.

.

Midnight I am as prepared as I can be, all things considered .

Of course you are being hard on yourself. Try not to be. Its completely normal to not know how to deal with this. It's not part of human training, and there is of course the overwhelming need to keep the family intact. FWIW you did a great job pulling her out the hot tub. Yes the followup is a bit later than you would wish, looking back. However you are doing it now that you have your bearings and you have fresh information. That dance floor scene !

Antlered, first thank you for your detailed posts, I do like books. I am disappointed at myself about the follow up from the hot tub incident and I did get a little violent when she told me to leave she was staying. I reached in and grabbed her by her hair because she was wet and pulled away from me. I didn't hit her and took her home and put her to bed . She became super sexual for the weeks following.

You are doing very, very well and so far you are making all the right moves, given your stated priority to get proof vs preventing further trysts on her part. That horse has already left the barn, and I'm assuming you are done with her once you get confirmation. Is this correct? I think it is worth extra effort and resources getting the proof. Not that it's strictly needed of course. She is without a doubt currently cheating, and you of course have several strong lines of evidence indicating this.

I do want confirmation on this and yes I will be done cheating is a deal breaker for me and it is driving me absolutely insane.

1. She is totally on to you knowing about her cheating on you. This is obvious from your behavior and remarks towards the swinger other couple, the movie infidelity, the dance venue, ect. Also, it is highly likely that the drunk informer's wife knows what he said and has passed that info onto your WW. There is no chance she does not know about your wife's A with swinger couple, that's how drunk guy knew. This has implications for stealth intelligence strategy implementation. Still that's your best bet if you can keep it together emotionally. At some point as you've said you will need to move to confrontation but more on that later.

2. The the intoxicated informant will very likely also become an informant for your WW via his wife. Assume that any info or behavior you let drop to him will go straight to your WW.

3. If you have a plan for more than one eventuality you will feel better. Consider what you will do if you don't get smoking gun info or a confession soon. You are well within your rights to divorce knowing what you already know. Plan for this. Consult with an attorney so you are informed as to how the process works and financial considerations.

Antlered Yes she is aware that I am on to her, the biggest indicator is she is now starting to say things about cheating and how it's really not a big deal. She will be very upset if I divorce her. I am playing this by ear and I am not going to let her rug sweep this again.

[This message edited by Unsureman at 8:08 AM, September 22nd (Friday)]

Mojodiva I logged into my Verizon acct last night and found two numbers that she calls during the day that I don't recognize. The calls are several hours long, not everyday but several times a week, I am going to call the numbers from a clean phone to determine who they are.

Thoroughly google them first

Two things stand out for me:

1. You mention that as far as sex goes it is mediocre - your further explanation makes it sound more like this is obligatory sex for her, therefore not really engaged. One could assume this is because her engagement is elsewhere and she believes sex with you is just to keep you from suspecting. It sounds very familiar.

2. Her ramp'ed up affection, again, so familiar. I don't really know if WS's use this to try throw you off, I suspect it is a reflex reaction considering it seems pretty standard. The problem with this, as some have mentioned, is that she could go undercover for sometime. Long enough for her to feel safe again, but rest assured she will return to her former ways.

Leading up to the point that you really suspected she was going rogue, how was the relationship? Did you feel things were good, did you have good engagement from her? If you have answered this before, I apologise, I have tried to read the entire thread.

Artec Yes our sex life is mediocre at best, I do everything I am just tired of begging for sex so I have stopped. I may be shallow but if she is having an affair and I am not getting my needs met , this is what I find is unforgivable. I am a model husband and make sure that she has everything she has absolutely no money issues and spends the day with girlfriends and going to the gym. I am always an afterthought.

[This message edited by Unsureman at 8:10 AM, September 22nd (Friday)]

um - Antlered Yes she is aware that I am on to her, the biggest indicator is she is now starting to say things about cheating and how it's really not a big deal. She will be very upset if I divorce her. I am playing this by ear and I am not going to let her rug sweep this again.

How is she bringing up the topic? Is she doing it as subtle hints? Seems like she knows gig is up.

um - Antlered Yes she is aware that I am on to her, the biggest indicator is she is now starting to say things about cheating and how it's really not a big deal. She will be very upset if I divorce her. I am playing this by ear and I am not going to let her rug sweep this again.

How is she bringing up the topic? Is she doing it as subtle hints? Seems like she knows gig is up.

.

Hotdog she brings it up constantly now, in every day conversation. I have been a total dumbass for not be man enough to confront her earlier. I guess I was just hoping it would go away and I was wrong. She brings the hot tub incident up all of the time saying she can't drink and be in the hot tub as she gets out of her mind drunk. If it was just the hot tub incident I would have moved on but there is too many red flags.

Mojodiva I logged into my Verizon acct last night and found two numbers that she calls during the day that I don't recognize. The calls are several hours long, not everyday but several times a week, I am going to call the numbers from a clean phone to determine who they are.

Did you check the text logs? My husband's calls to OW#2 were sporadic (mutual masturbation sessions spread out at odd hours and sometimes several months apart, but followed after he had already had his one night stand with her) but there were many calls and several very long to OW#3, but it wasn't until I saw the hundreds of texts between those two that I realized just how much time was stolen from me and my children. He was literally texting his EA/ONS while in the room with me. Ugh, this still makes me incredibly sad and I feel so foolish over it.

There may be more contact than just phone calls.

[This message edited by mojodiva at 8:33 AM, September 22nd (Friday)]

Cheating may not be a big deal to her since she is the cheater. I'm sure she will be screaming bloody murder if it was the other way around. You should use a hypothetical scenario where you are cheating on her. See what her reaction would be. UM, as long as you reinforce your your position (a deal breaker) on cheating every time she brings it up she will keep coming back and bringing back this topic as not being a big deal. She will try harder and harder to convince you. She is now desperate!